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The cars aren't sliding more...


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#1 rhukkas

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 12:12

If anything the lead cars look even less lively than last year. I keep hearing comments about the drivers fighting with the cars but I just don't see it.

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#2 thechin

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 12:13

The Ferraris are at least! Look at them trying to get the power down.

 

But yeah, the front cars are on a cruise by the looks of things.



#3 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 12:34

They are all sliding, they are all sliding more than last season. If you have gone to F1 races in the 1980ies, 1990ies and 2000ies and see the cars live they have always been sliding more than it appears on TV, they have never been on rails and every lap for all drivers is a masterful balancing dancing act.

 

:cool:



#4 keiichi

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 12:37

This year I've seen cars sliding quite a lot, and that includes the top teams. There was a very good onboard of Rosberg on his first lap after turn 3 I think, and the car was all over the place...



#5 ANF

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 12:41

 

Yes they are.



#6 Goron3

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 12:44

We must have watched different races because almost everytime they showed a car going through a sweeping corner the backend was sliding loads. Bottas in particular seemed to be wrestling the car.



#7 Jejking

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 12:45

Jep, disagree with topic. Watch the hand movements compared to direction change and you can spot the difference.



#8 scheivlak

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 12:46

If anything the lead cars look even less lively than last year. 

That's because they're the lead cars  :D

 

More seriously, overall the cars are sliding far, far more than I've seen in many years. You should really have another look.



#9 Jackmancer

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 12:47

lhb7.jpg



#10 Bartonz20let

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 13:13

Think the op was expecting them to be drifting.

#11 Cool Beans

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 13:25

Is there anything people won't complain about?



#12 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 13:41

Is there anything people won't complain about?

 

I would like to formally complain that you are complaining about there being nothing people are not complaining about.

 

:cool:



#13 rhukkas

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 14:06

Albert Park on a Friday is notoriously slippy so its a pointless reference. I can link a video to a marussia going around last year at malaysia with constant oppy lock.

 

I am re-watching the race now and have watched several cars on complete cruise mode, without a hint of anybody breaking traction. We're just not seeing all this rear-end 'action' we were promised. As expected the engineers have obviously avoided such an issue.



#14 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 14:22

Albert Park on a Friday is notoriously slippy so its a pointless reference. I can link a video to a marussia going around last year at malaysia with constant oppy lock.

 

I am re-watching the race now and have watched several cars on complete cruise mode, without a hint of anybody breaking traction. We're just not seeing all this rear-end 'action' we were promised. As expected the engineers have obviously avoided such an issue.

 

With all due respect.

 

You don't know what you are talking about then.

 

:cool:



#15 scheivlak

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 14:37

If anything the lead cars look even less lively than last year. 

 

 

 I can link a video to a marussia going around last year at malaysia with constant oppy lock.

 

 

 

Didn't know that Marussia was a lead car last year.



#16 ollebompa

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 20:06

Sliding is slower.

#17 pingu666

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 20:21

the caterham on old tyres was slidey



#18 demet06

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 22:07

Have you not seen the work that the drivers are doing in the car this season?



#19 PretentiousBread

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 22:12

Albert Park on a Friday is notoriously slippy so its a pointless reference. I can link a video to a marussia going around last year at malaysia with constant oppy lock.
 
I am re-watching the race now and have watched several cars on complete cruise mode, without a hint of anybody breaking traction. We're just not seeing all this rear-end 'action' we were promised. As expected the engineers have obviously avoided such an issue.


It's the tyre saving - they're not driving close enough to the edges of adhesion to be sliding more.
Currently watching Malaysia 2010, the fastest lap was about 2.5s off the ultimate pace, on old prime tyres. Fast forward to 2011 and the fastest lap was 5.5s off the ultimate pace, despite being on much fresher tyres comparatively. We've had this situation ever since with Pirelli. The guy above who lectured us about drivers 'dancing on the edge' might as well be talking about serve and volleyers in tennis - obsolete, redundant, out dated.

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#20 rhukkas

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 22:15

Have you not seen the work that the drivers are doing in the car this season?

 

I watched Hamilton and Vettel lift and coast and not break traction on any meaningful manner, certainly not more than in previous years.

 

Yes they are 'lead cars', but we're not seeing all this "sliding' action we were promised. I never actually believed it would be the case as the engineers obviously will want to avoid such instances. It was the same when TC was banned. Everyone said the same thing.



#21 peroa

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 22:22

Have you not seen the work that the drivers are doing in the car this season?

lol, if you want to see some work going on you should watch the race from 2004, the cars were 10sec quicker per lap and the drivers didn't come out as fresh as a daisy like they did today.

There were actually some g forces involved back then...



#22 EthanM

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 22:29

lol, if you want to see some work going on you should watch the race from 2004, the cars were 10sec quicker per lap and the drivers didn't come out as fresh as a daisy like they did today.

There were actually some g forces involved back then...

 

Well I wouldn't say they come out looking fresh, half of them look borderline anorexic to me, and no I am not joking/exaggerating ... I was watching that bit Lewis did with Brundle re his pole lap on the skypad and I was ... whatthe****.



#23 PretentiousBread

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 22:36

Well I wouldn't say they come out looking fresh, half of them look borderline anorexic to me, and no I am not joking/exaggerating ... I was watching that bit Lewis did with Brundle re his pole lap on the skypad and I was ... whatthe****.


If they are so knackered it is most likely a product of their borderline unhealthy weights. Hamilton was literally lapping 10s per lap slower than he was on his Malaysia debut in 2007, these cars themselves aren't physically challenging like they used to be. Consider also that these cars are quicker on the straights than in 2007, so they're even slower in the corners relatively speaking than 10s would suggest. It literally isn't dissimilar to stepping out from a 2007 F1 car and getting into a 2007 F3 car.....

#24 Fastcake

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 22:40

I've definitely been watching cars slide around a lot more over the past two races. They seem harder to driver to me.

 

lol, if you want to see some work going on you should watch the race from 2004, the cars were 10sec quicker per lap and the drivers didn't come out as fresh as a daisy like they did today.

There were actually some g forces involved back then...

 

I'm sure those extra few seconds and 0.1 g makes all the difference... :rolleyes:



#25 PretentiousBread

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 23:05

Those extra 'few' seconds (about 10 actually) you don't think makes much difference? Are you nuts? When's the last time you saw a driver's neck go? I don't recall any in the Pirelli era, whereas it never used to be a unusual occurrence. I distinctly remember even Brundle noticing that the drivers looked 'fresh' after the 2011 Malaysian GP compared to just one year earlier.

#26 saudoso

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 23:19

It is pretty simple, less HP = less force on the ground.

No matter how much nominal torque you have.

#27 scheivlak

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 23:26

It is pretty simple, less HP = less force on the ground.
 

Less HP? Simple? Do you actually still follow F1?



#28 Fastcake

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 23:39

Those extra 'few' seconds (about 10 actually) you don't think makes much difference? Are you nuts? When's the last time you saw a driver's neck go? I don't recall any in the Pirelli era, whereas it never used to be a unusual occurrence. I distinctly remember even Brundle noticing that the drivers looked 'fresh' after the 2011 Malaysian GP compared to just one year earlier.

 

No I don't think it makes that much difference. They are still going mightily fast and subject to high G-forces, going a little bit faster in the corners and setting a quicker fastest lap won't suddenly tire them all out. You're forgetting that drivers nowadays are far fitter than they have ever been, even compared to the ones just 10 years ago.



#29 rhukkas

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 23:50

10% reduction in lap time can yield massive reductions in strain put on the body.

 

take a kart for example. Take an average circuit of around 40-44 seconds. The kart doing 40 second laps will be considerably more physical than one doing 44 second laps (approx 10% performance differential). 10% is a gigantic number here. I've experienced this myself. You can go from being able to do 20-30 laps at a time all day with ease to barely being able to do 5.

 

Schumacher said himself he would not have been physical able to make his return had the race speeds remained at 2004 levels.


Edited by rhukkas, 30 March 2014 - 23:51.


#30 saudoso

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 00:06

Less HP? Simple? Do you actually still follow F1?


You have numbers that say otherwise?

#31 EthanM

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 00:10

No I don't think it makes that much difference. They are still going mightily fast and subject to high G-forces, going a little bit faster in the corners and setting a quicker fastest lap won't suddenly tire them all out. You're forgetting that drivers nowadays are far fitter than they have ever been, even compared to the ones just 10 years ago.

 

the lower he cornering speed the lower the g loads, it's basic mathematics



#32 ANF

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 00:25



The cars are NOT sliding more than they did in 2007, at least not on a Friday at notoriously slippery Albert Park. :smoking:



#33 BillBald

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 01:42

We must have watched different races because almost everytime they showed a car going through a sweeping corner the backend was sliding loads. Bottas in particular seemed to be wrestling the car.

 

When in recent years have we seen anything like the tank-slapper Rosberg had in turn 3 on the first lap in Sepang? Or Magnussen at the start in Melbourne?

 

And yes, G forces are lower because the cars have less downforce, which is partly what makes them harder to drive.

 

Some people seem to be complaining because the drivers are too good, and don't get sideways often enough. Well, they are supposed to be pretty good drivers, you know!



#34 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 01:47

Yes they are 'lead cars', but we're not seeing all this "sliding' action we were promised. I never actually believed it would be the case as the engineers obviously will want to avoid such instances.

 

It will happen when they are battling wheel to wheel and trying.  :)

 

But when they are crusing and driving to delta?  Nope.



#35 Peat

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 07:06

It will happen when they are battling wheel to wheel and trying.  :)

 

But when they are crusing and driving to delta?  Nope.

 

^This

From lap 3 to 5 laps til the end, most of them are driving well within themselves and the car.



#36 tifosiMac

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 08:08

Its pretty obvious to me the cars are more lively in the corners this season I have to say. The onboard videos above demonstrate it perfectly too.



#37 Lights

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 08:18

It's always exaggerated at Melbourne, because it's just a slippery track and its the first race of the season and cars are often still poorly set up. The media uses this to hype the new F1.



#38 scheivlak

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 08:24

You have numbers that say otherwise?

You can read in a few threads that maximum power could be in the order of 800 HP now  - more than last year's output.



#39 peroa

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 08:25

When in recent years have we seen anything like the tank-slapper Rosberg had in turn 3 on the first lap in Sepang? Or Magnussen at the start in Melbourne?

 

And yes, G forces are lower because the cars have less downforce, which is partly what makes them harder to drive.

 

Some people seem to be complaining because the drivers are too good, and don't get sideways often enough. Well, they are supposed to be pretty good drivers, you know!

Compared to 2004 and 2007? Maybe, although I find it hard to believe that 10 years of aero development didn't bring them back to about that level.

The main difference are the tyres IMHO and of course a slightly weaker engine.


Edited by peroa, 31 March 2014 - 08:26.


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#40 Lazy

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 08:42

It's always exaggerated at Melbourne, because it's just a slippery track and its the first race of the season and cars are often still poorly set up. The media uses this to hype the new F1.

It's not just the media, it's the drivers too. Alonso and Button both said the cars are harder to drive.

 

More torque, less df, no EBD, be weird if they weren't.



#41 Rinehart

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 08:55

If anything the lead cars look even less lively than last year. I keep hearing comments about the drivers fighting with the cars but I just don't see it.

What we're you watching?

 

Sliding more is a relative term, compared to barely sliding at all during the last decade. 

 

But the amount they slide now is perfect, its not a complete sideways buffet fest a la Ice Racing, which would be too much for F1.

 

Its a classy amount, but you've got to look for it. In Australia imo the best corner was turn 5 there was some wonderful drifting through there and a lot going on in the final turn. In Malaysia, 7,8 plus the work they were going to get out of the hairpins was great to watch. This is the best part of the new era of F1. I CANNOT wait for Monaco & Singo. 



#42 Lights

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 09:46

It's not just the media, it's the drivers too. Alonso and Button both said the cars are harder to drive.

 

More torque, less df, no EBD, be weird if they weren't.

 

Fair enough. But teams and drivers will adapt and find ways to increase drive-ability, like they always do. My point was that every year in Melbourne a lot of cars seem tricky to drive, but come end of the season (or much earlier) and it's like driving on rails again. Even with all the new changes you mentioned, the cars don't look that bad to drive and it won't get worse.



#43 f1RacingForever

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 09:57

You were expecting Tokyo drift? :lol:



#44 stanga

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 10:15

What we're you watching?

 

Sliding more is a relative term, compared to barely sliding at all during the last decade. 

 

But the amount they slide now is perfect, its not a complete sideways buffet fest a la Ice Racing, which would be too much for F1.

 

Its a classy amount, but you've got to look for it. In Australia imo the best corner was turn 5 there was some wonderful drifting through there and a lot going on in the final turn. In Malaysia, 7,8 plus the work they were going to get out of the hairpins was great to watch. This is the best part of the new era of F1. I CANNOT wait for Monaco & Singo. 

 

Good points. I'm looking forward to those races too. I just hope they use durable tyres and we can see some oversteering action from all the cars. Sorts the men from the boys, so to speak.  :)



#45 Brandz07

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 10:59

When we get a dry qualifying it'll be more noticeable I think.



#46 Lazy

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 12:58

Fair enough. But teams and drivers will adapt and find ways to increase drive-ability, like they always do. My point was that every year in Melbourne a lot of cars seem tricky to drive, but come end of the season (or much earlier) and it's like driving on rails again. Even with all the new changes you mentioned, the cars don't look that bad to drive and it won't get worse.

True, and the drivers wouldn't be doing their job if they were power sliding round the corners, but they are probably relatively bit cautious with the new machinery atm. Hopefully when they get more comfortable with it we'll see a bit more limits pushed and the odd back end hanging out.



#47 Lazy

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 06:54