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Can anybody stop Mercedes?


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Poll: Can anybody stop Mercedes? (394 member(s) have cast votes)

Will Mercedes win the WCC?

  1. Yes (309 votes [78.43%])

    Percentage of vote: 78.43%

  2. No (85 votes [21.57%])

    Percentage of vote: 21.57%

Who will win the WDC?

  1. Lewis Hamilton (298 votes [75.63%])

    Percentage of vote: 75.63%

  2. Nico Rosberg (54 votes [13.71%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.71%

  3. Anybody else (42 votes [10.66%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.66%

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#301 george1981

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 16:31

I think Hamilton will win the WDC and Mercedes the WCC. But I don't think the Mercedes will win every race this year. I'm not expecting them to dominate Monaco. I've got a feeling the win will go to Redbull, probably Vettel but ideally Ricardio. The FIA or even Pirellei could make some mid season changes that changes things.



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#302 McLaren

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 18:08

Nobody will stop them, the only thing stopping them winning every race is reliability.

As much as I disliked the Vettel domination over the last couple of years, this is far worse.
Merc are making a mockery of the sport.

Tbh I would really hate to see Merc breaking the record held in 88 by the gorgeous MP4/4. :(

 

Merc have certainly done a good job... but just having a look at the rest of the teams... it looks like they have done a poor job. So Merc deserve this success...



#303 LightningMcQueen

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 19:02

I think Hamilton will win the WDC and Mercedes the WCC. But I don't think the Mercedes will win every race this year. I'm not expecting them to dominate Monaco. I've got a feeling the win will go to Redbull, probably Vettel but ideally Ricardio. The FIA or even Pirellei could make some mid season changes that changes things.

.

Monaco will certainly be closer but Mercedes still possess the best downforce and traction and 2 Monaco specialists so they will go there as favourites...

Also, the FIAintroduced a mid season tire change last season because of safety concerns... Not happening

#304 george1981

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 19:07

....
Also, the FIAintroduced a mid season tire change last season because of safety concerns... Not happening

 

The FIA could find something they don't like in the engine mapping or the fuel that Mercedes are using. It's happened before with the Michelin tyres and the Renault mass damper so it could happen again.



#305 LightningMcQueen

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 19:23

The FIA could find something they don't like in the engine mapping or the fuel that Mercedes are using. It's happened before with the Michelin tyres and the Renault mass damper so it could happen again.


True, but it doesn't look like merc have a magic bullet to me.. Just better in every area

#306 Zoetrope

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 19:31

.

Monaco will certainly be closer but Mercedes still possess the best downforce and traction and 2 Monaco specialists so they will go there as favourites...

Also, the FIAintroduced a mid season tire change last season because of safety concerns... Not happening

The same has been said about Barcelona and bam!, biggest qualifying and race gap all season long. Of course Monaco race strategy is a bit different, but I don't see a reason why shouldn't Merc run as fast as possible.



#307 apoka

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 19:34

I think Hamilton will win the WDC and Mercedes the WCC. But I don't think the Mercedes will win every race this year. I'm not expecting them to dominate Monaco. I've got a feeling the win will go to Redbull, probably Vettel but ideally Ricardio. The FIA or even Pirellei could make some mid season changes that changes things.

 

I think Monaco is too early to beat Merc (and Rosberg has always been excellent there). On RTL, they asked Lauda whether Red Bull could be competitive in Monaco and he started to actually chuckle and said that he doesn't think that such a gap can be quickly closed. On other occasions, he also said Merc is not only strong because of the engine (not even mostly because of the engine). Although he didn't say it, he probably thinks that Merc is good/best in almost all areas. Moreover, I believe the RB strengths are more in fast corners than slow ones as in Monaco. 

 

The only real difference will be that Monaco tends to be more random in general as traffic can kill qualy laps, but apart from that I really don't see why Merc shouldn't win this (as last year).



#308 slmk

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 19:36

I think Monaco is too early to beat Merc (and Rosberg has always been excellent there). On RTL, they asked Lauda whether Red Bull could be competitive in Monaco and he started to actually chuckle and said that he doesn't think that such a gap can be quickly closed. On other occasions, he also said Merc is not only strong because of the engine (not even mostly because of the engine). Although he didn't say it, he probably thinks that Merc is good/best in almost all areas. Moreover, I believe the RB strengths are more in fast corners than slow ones as in Monaco. 

 

The only real difference will be that Monaco tends to be more random in general as traffic can kill qualy laps, but apart from that I really don't see why Merc shouldn't win this (as last year).

 

Agreed - difference this year is that Caterham/Marussia won't start lapping faster than the leading Mercedes



#309 Jamiednm

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 07:36

I think Mercedes will win every race this season (barring technical problems/crashes etc). They will dominate every circuit yet to come.

I was at the race in Spain and from my vantage point, I could see the end of the pit straight, turns 5 and 6. The gaps that Mercedes created were incredible, because of my view, I could see the gaps getting bigger each lap, it was almost comical how dominant they are.

Edited by Jamiednm, 12 May 2014 - 07:36.


#310 Kristian

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 07:42

I actually cannot see how they can be beaten without reliability or driver error - and neither of those look like they will happen. 

 

Not even strategy will beat them, they are simply too fast. Despite all the upgrades teams brought to Barcelona they were still 1s ahead.

 

With ever more technical restrictions and lack of testing, I cannot see any of the other teams catching up this season (unlike, say, 1998, 1999, the latter stages of 2004 or Red Bull chasing Brawn in 2009). 



#311 F1ultimate

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 12:41

-We will be closer to Mercedes in Bahrain.
-We will close the gap when we get to Europe.
-In Monaco Mercedes won't dominate.
-Montreal will be the true test.

This is the rhetoric we have heard from Red Bull and Renault the past months? Yet Mercedes are still as dominant as they were in Bahrein testing. The car has proven to be as dominant on 6 different track and in different conditions. Is it fair to say that rivals won't catch up?

#312 frozzie

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 12:51

Mercedes can be stopped but by then it is likely to be too late. Too much work to reduce the gap that is there.

 

But then I suppose next season Mercedes might not even be title condender at all or even fight for race wins. This is too similar to Brawn GP where you do really well one year you do much worse following season.



#313 study

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 12:53

-We will be closer to Mercedes in Bahrain.
-We will close the gap when we get to Europe.
-In Monaco Mercedes won't dominate.
-Montreal will be the true test.

This is the rhetoric we have heard from Red Bull and Renault the past months? Yet Mercedes are still as dominant as they were in Bahrein testing. The car has proven to be as dominant on 6 different track and in different conditions. Is it fair to say that rivals won't catch up?

 

 

Who said that one? For Canada, I think Merc will be able to lap the entire field if they want to.



#314 Timstr11

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 12:59

Who said that one? For Canada, I think Merc will be able to lap the entire field if they want to.

 

Renault.

 

He's is merely repeating Renault/RBR promises.



#315 superdelphinus

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 13:22

I don't think it will be too much longer until merc start moving resource over to 2015 in a bigger way. That might have less effect than previous years though, though who knows what engine changes merc will make



#316 Geizterfahrer

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 14:15

-We will be closer to Mercedes in Bahrain.
-We will close the gap when we get to Europe.
-In Monaco Mercedes won't dominate.
-Montreal will be the true test.

 

You forgot:

- If it's wet we can beat them because they can't use their engine advantage.

- Barcelona is an aero track, we can get them there.

 

I think Mercedes is unstoppable this season. The car is ahead of its competitors in every single aspect. Well... Except of fuel efficiency maybe... They're very good there too, but Williams seems to be even better. They're even ahead with their tyre management! They go a second per lap faster with Lewis and Nico battling each other, but they still manage to stop together with (or even later than) the other teams. It's one of the most dominant cars ever built and they have two of the best drivers you can find in the current field. They'll finish every race 1-2 if nothing unforeseen happens.



#317 OO7

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 14:16

You forgot:

- If it's wet we can beat them because they can't use their engine advantage.

- Barcelona is an aero track, we can get them there.

 

I think Mercedes is unstoppable this season. The car is ahead of its competitors in every single aspect. Well... Except of fuel efficiency maybe... They're very good there too, but Williams seems to be even better. They're even ahead with their tyre management! They go a second per lap faster with Lewis and Nico battling each other, but they still manage to stop together with (or even later than) the other teams. It's one of the most dominant cars ever built and they have two of the best drivers you can find in the current field. They'll finish every race 1-2 if nothing unforeseen happens.

Welcome to the forum Geizterfahrer!  Enjoy your stay.  :wave:



#318 Zoetrope

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 14:18

(...)Except of fuel efficiency maybe... They're very good there too, but Williams seems to be even better. (...)

It might be due to Mercedes downforce. Williams is consistently topping speed traps on every circuit. They are running very low drag setup.



#319 Jon83

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 14:27

I don't think it will be too much longer until merc start moving resource over to 2015 in a bigger way. That might have less effect than previous years though, though who knows what engine changes merc will make

 

Surely the best way to do that, in many respects, is to continue to develop this year's car?
 



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#320 Asterion

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 14:30

So much for RBR is a better car, Merc is an average car with a fantastic powertrain, and Monaco will prove it. I mean, really? 


Edited by Asterion, 26 May 2014 - 14:31.


#321 sabjit

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 14:34

Mercedes can be stopped but by then it is likely to be too late. Too much work to reduce the gap that is there.

 

But then I suppose next season Mercedes might not even be title condender at all or even fight for race wins. This is too similar to Brawn GP where you do really well one year you do much worse following season.

 

There is no parallel to Brawn at all. Brawn lost a race early on. They had a poor development curve and were not winning races by jaw-dropping margins.

 

None of which applies to the Mercedes this year.



#322 sv401

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 15:18

So much for RBR is a better car, Merc is an average car with a fantastic powertrain, and Monaco will prove it. I mean, really? 

 

Well, the difference in qualifying was down to 4 tenths from 1 second. While "Merc is an average car" is not quite a realistic claim, the results do not fundamentally disagree with the theory that the majority of the advantage is from the engine/powertrain (and that can include anything from power, handling, fuel efficiency, ERS, and even the possibility of better packaging/less cooling required), and the chassis is roughly equal. I mean, the alleged 80 HP advantage would indeed still give a few tenths at Monaco, and when Ricciardo was chasing Hamilton at the end, it was clear that he still could not keep up with the Mercedes on the straights, despite setting overall significantly faster lap times before catching up.



#323 Asterion

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 15:20

80 HP advantage (at Monaco, not at the 1st winter test)? Are you serious? I have to ask...

 

Besides, the difference was likely greater than 4 tenths at Monaco, given that Hamilton was quicker than ever in S1 and would have likely been faster than Nico overall. That's not much of an assumption.

 

Comparing the final laps between Ham and Ric is full of fallacies as far I'm concerned. One driver wasn't pushing anymore, wasn't 100% comfortable with his vision, had already overused his tyres in the beginning of the stint to try to beat his teammate, and knew that it was unlikely he was going to get passed at Monaco. 


Edited by Asterion, 26 May 2014 - 15:25.


#324 sv401

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 15:22

80 HP advantage? Are you serious? :well:

 

I recall this figure from someone (Marko ?) earlier in the season, of course it may or may not be correct.



#325 sv401

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 15:30

 

Besides, the difference was likely greater than 4 tenths at Monaco, given that Hamilton was quicker than ever in S1 and would have likely been faster than Nico overall. That's not much of an assumption.

 

Ricciardo could have posted a faster lap, too, since he made a mistake and his lap was not clean.



#326 Asterion

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 15:33

Ricciardo could have posted a faster lap, too, since he made a mistake and his lap was not clean.

I fail to see how Ric making a mistake = him possibly going faster than his previous best time. Hamilton didn't make a mistake, and clearly showed he was going faster.

 

One option (greater than 4 tenths difference) is way more likely than the other. 



#327 sv401

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 15:34


Comparing the final laps between Ham and Ric is full of fallacies as far I'm concerned. One driver wasn't pushing anymore, wasn't 100% comfortable with his vision, had already overused his tyres in the beginning of the stint to try to beat his teammate, and knew that it was unlikely he was going to get passed at Monaco. 

 

You missed the point, which was that even a limping Mercedes was easily faster than the Red Bull in the parts of the track where power matters the most. I was not trying to claim that the lap time difference was representative of the overall performance of the cars.



#328 Asterion

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 15:36

You missed the point, which was that even a limping Mercedes was easily faster than the Red Bull in the parts of the track where power matters the most. I was not trying to claim that the lap time difference was representative of the overall performance of the cars.

Fair enough



#329 sv401

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 15:37

I fail to see how Ric making a mistake = him possibly going faster than his previous best time. Hamilton didn't make a mistake, and clearly showed he was going faster.

 

How do you know Hamilton would not have made a mistake if he completed a timed lap, and more importantly why should the RB10 be considered a worse car than it really is because the driver made a mistake ? If Hamilton completed a perfect lap, as you assume, and Ricciardo did not, then some of the greater than 4 tenths difference would have been down to the drivers. In other words, is it an unreasonable assumption that Ricciardo's driving (with the mistake) was comparable to Rosberg's, and therefore the difference between the cars was not far from the 4 tenths shown by the results ?


Edited by sv401, 26 May 2014 - 15:45.


#330 Asterion

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 15:43

Man, I got to go. Just found out the greatest news ever in my life, so dont care anymore about silly F1 stuff. 
See you guys in 2 weeks.

 

 

:clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:



#331 Jamiednm

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 15:47

Lets not forget that Monaco is the shortest lap of the year, so the lap time difference was always going to be smaller.

That said, Merc still dominated qualy and the race on a circuit that is more likely to neutralise a car advantage than any other, yet they still dominated the weekend again with a 1-2 in qualy and race. No other car can still get close to beating even the 2nd place Mercedes and that is very telling.

#332 Balnazzard

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 15:47

Unless Hamilton and Nico crash eachother out, no-one, I mean NO-ONE  else will even win single race this season, they still have well over a second gap to anyone else and other teams, not even Red Bull can catch that. This is not going to be like 2009 where Brawn's edge was gone by the 2nd half of the season, Mercedes will dominate to the very end....well atleast I hope this is going to be like 1988 and Nico&Hamilton battle for championship will last to end of the season.


Edited by Balnazzard, 26 May 2014 - 15:51.


#333 TurboF1

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 15:49

Man, I got to go. Just found out the greatest news ever in my life, so dont care anymore about silly F1 stuff. 
See you guys in 2 weeks.
 
 
:clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:

way OT here, but give us a hint! I guess congrats are in order?

#334 HoldenRT

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 15:55

No.



#335 George Costanza

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 16:40

There is no parallel to Brawn at all. Brawn lost a race early on. They had a poor development curve and were not winning races by jaw-dropping margins.

 

None of which applies to the Mercedes this year.

 

They had hardly any money to fund that. The fact that they won the championship is incredible.



#336 George Costanza

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 16:42

I still mantain that 1988 or 1996 is the only example that is compared to Mercedes.



#337 F1ultimate

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 13:30

Interlagos was another Bahrain for Mercedes: An exhibition of dominance. 

 

After Hamilton spun, and pitted we managed to close a 7 second gap to Lewis while data showed that he had consumed least amount of fuel. The team's engine advantage is totally out of this world and the only way to stopping them, let alone catching up is to unfreeze the engine regulations. When a driver can make a mistake but yet finish with a 1.5 pit stops margin over the rest of the field, it's not good for the sport.



#338 pdac

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 14:50

Is this thread just about the 2014 season? I think I voted for 2015 too.



#339 sabjit

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 15:07

Interlagos was another Bahrain for Mercedes: An exhibition of dominance. 

 

After Hamilton spun, and pitted we managed to close a 7 second gap to Lewis while data showed that he had consumed least amount of fuel. The team's engine advantage is totally out of this world and the only way to stopping them, let alone catching up is to unfreeze the engine regulations. When a driver can make a mistake but yet finish with a 1.5 pit stops margin over the rest of the field, it's not good for the sport.

 

2 things wrong with an engine unfreeze.

 

1. We are losing teams, an unfreeze drives up costs that cannot be paid.

 

2. Unfreezing engines is just as likely to result in Merc extending their advantage.

 

There is nothing unfair about the engine freeze. Everyone knew about it, and Mercedes simply did a better a job. It would be unfair to unfreeze it.



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#340 Massa

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 15:20

Merc extending their advantage ? How do you know ? And if you were so sure that Mercedes would be even faster with an unfreeze, you will not saying that it would be unfair for Mercedes to unfreeze.

 

If a freeze is not unfair why not do the same with aero ? Why not saying " ok so from now the teams are allowed to upgrade only 50% of the current car for next year " . It's that competition for you ? So you are saying that the good old F1 during the 90 era was not fair ? For me that's was the true F1.

 

I remember the Schumacher era, the FIA come up with plenty of regs to kill the Ferrari domination, and nobody said " oh it's unfair for Ferrari " .


Edited by Massa, 10 November 2014 - 15:20.


#341 sabjit

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 15:28

Merc extending their advantage ? How do you know ? And if you were so sure that Mercedes would be even faster with an unfreeze, you will not saying that it would be unfair for Mercedes to unfreeze.

 

I'll quote what I said

 

 

2. Unfreezing engines is just as likely to result in Merc extending their advantage.

 

Please read posts carefully. Misunderstandings caused by skimming is precisely why a lot tedious arguments start.

 

I never said that Merc were definitely going to extend their advantage. I just said they were just as likely to as the others to catch up. There is no guarantee that an unfreeze will make the engine performance closer between the manufactures. They COULD do, but they might not.



#342 Jon83

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 15:46

Merc extending their advantage ? How do you know ? And if you were so sure that Mercedes would be even faster with an unfreeze, you will not saying that it would be unfair for Mercedes to unfreeze.

 

If a freeze is not unfair why not do the same with aero ? Why not saying " ok so from now the teams are allowed to upgrade only 50% of the current car for next year " . It's that competition for you ? So you are saying that the good old F1 during the 90 era was not fair ? For me that's was the true F1.

 

I remember the Schumacher era, the FIA come up with plenty of regs to kill the Ferrari domination, and nobody said " oh it's unfair for Ferrari " .

 

I'd say it perfectly reasonable to believe that the lifting of the current freeze could / would result in a greater Mercedes advantage.

 

In fact I think it is the obvious outcome!


Edited by Jon83, 10 November 2014 - 15:47.


#343 Leprechau

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 16:09

Merc extending their advantage ? How do you know ? And if you were so sure that Mercedes would be even faster with an unfreeze, you will not saying that it would be unfair for Mercedes to unfreeze.

 

If a freeze is not unfair why not do the same with aero ? Why not saying " ok so from now the teams are allowed to upgrade only 50% of the current car for next year " . It's that competition for you ? So you are saying that the good old F1 during the 90 era was not fair ? For me that's was the true F1.

 

I remember the Schumacher era, the FIA come up with plenty of regs to kill the Ferrari domination, and nobody said " oh it's unfair for Ferrari " .

 

Yes, you're right. Going by his avatar, he's probably a Hamilton fan, so no surprise he says that.

 

Mercedes is already closer to extract the max that the reg allows from the PUs(from the current technological state we're in) and that's why the unfreezing would benefit Ferrari and Renault.

 

To answer the thread tittle more up to date, I think things will remain pretty much the same next year, ie, boring Mercedes domination.

 

At least Red Bull was not this dominant everywhere and not by the same typical margins(Interlagos, Singapore, Monaco as exceptions this year)

 


 



#344 sabjit

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 16:17

^^ Make that two people who didn't read my post properly.