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What if...Schumacher 8*WDC


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#1 Music Lover

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 23:38

I'm not a fan of MS but I respect him a LOT as a driver. Possible the best driver ever.

I was over the moon when he returned to F1 in 2010 seeing a legend racing again, even if it was painful to observe the rather slow Merc...

 

Given the speed in Merc 2014, is to only me that is a bit sad he didn't stayed one additional year?

It would have been UNREAL to see him jumping on the podium again! Despite not being a fan, I always enjoyed seeing him jumping...

And driving a 2014 Merc I'm quite sure MS would get the 8th title  :up:

What do you think?

 

 

 

PS

Get well soon!

 



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#2 Andrew Hope

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 23:45

I would've liked to see it, but given the choice, ten times out of ten I'd rather see glory go to someone who has never had it before than glory returning to someone who has had quite a lot of it. It's why the only wins of Kovalainen, Maldonado and Kubica and first wins of Rosberg, Vettel, Hamilton etc. stick out so much more clearly to me than the championship-clinching wins of Alonso, Button, Vettel, Schumacher, etc. It's why I'm always hoping Force India or Sauber build a race-winning car, moreso than Williams building another one. It's not that I wouldn't want it to happen, it's just pretty far down the list.



#3 DanardiF1

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 23:55

I agree somewhat with Andrew... I thought Schumi's comeback years were great simply because he was doing it for himself, and when he finally got on the podium again in Valencia I was really happy for him (still wish he could've got on the podium in Canada 2011... that was an epic drive!), but he's already broken every record going in a very long career.

 

And as well as absolute numbers, his achievements were of their time, meaning that in the future even if someone breaks his records, they won't diminish what he achieved at that time. For example, now with a calendar of 20 or so races, a car of equal quality to some of Schumacher's best with modern reliability (though this year is going a bit retro on that front!) will be competing for potentially 4 more wins than Schumacher could in 1995 for example. Same goes for his achievements in relation to Fangio/Clark/Prost etc.

 

My only wish is that he wakes up and is able to live a healthy life again. I wasn't a fan of his either, but in his comeback years I grew to like him because he was so much more relaxed and personable, showing how he really could be when not overridden by focus and competition. He's earned everything he has in life, massive personal success, a great family, a wonderful life... I just hope he can wake up to enjoy what he's earned.



#4 RubalSher

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 00:33


Given the speed in Merc 2014, is to only me that is a bit sad he didn't stayed one additional year?

 

Make that two additional years! But yeah, he could have jumped to RBR last year and gotten his 8th title :smoking:



#5 baddog

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 00:38

This car would have suited him down to the ground, so yeah. But 7 will do I think!



#6 Spillage

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 00:52

Ah, ifs and buts. He could also easily have won the championship in 1997, 1998 and 2006 respectively. But when I think back to Schumi's career, I don't really think 'what if..'. He was too good for that.



#7 Arska

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 00:56

What if Kimi won each season from 2001 to 2013? He'd be a 13x WDC now.



#8 SB

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 02:26

woulda ... shoulda ..... coulda ....

 

What if Schumacher got punishment for crashing into Hill in 1994 ? What if FIA didnt change the tyre rules in 2003 ? 

or even what if Gachot has not lost his temper to that London taxi driver ??! :rolleyes:



#9 George Costanza

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 02:50

I have no doubt Michael would have been right there at the very top in this season's Mercedes.

 

8 times? He could have done that already, or even more. But he was quite simply, the best at his racecraft and we all saw that at his glory days. There is no need for a "what if" for Michael Schumacher. He's still the most successful driver of all time by a mile.



#10 Kingshark

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 02:55

Meh, had 97, 98 and 06 turned out a little different, and had he not broken his leg in 99 we would be looking at an 11 time champ today. Also, if he extended his Ferrari contract 2 more years he probably would have won 07 and 08 as well.


Edited by Kingshark, 03 April 2014 - 02:56.


#11 George Costanza

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 02:57

Meh, had 97, 98 and 06 turned out a little different, and had he not broken his leg in 99 we would be looking at an 11 time champ today. Also, if he extended his Ferrari contract 2 more years he probably would have won 07 and 08 as well.

 

2007 and 2008? Very easy, IMO. The way Kimi, Felipe and Lewis drove in 2008 was pretty bad, and Michael would have rang rings around them. 



#12 Thomas99

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 03:36

2007 and 2008? Very easy, IMO. The way Kimi, Felipe and Lewis drove in 2008 was pretty bad, and Michael would have rang rings around them. 

 

Agreed. I've always said this.

 

Schumacher was well ontop of Massa in 2006 and Kimi never really looked like he had his measure.



#13 Afterburner

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 03:39

Ah, ifs and buts. He could also easily have won the championship in 1997, 1998 and 2006 respectively. But when I think back to Schumi's career, I don't really think 'what if..'. He was too good for that.

As are all the greats--Clark, Senna, Schumi, et al. Everyone knows what these guys could do, no additional career time necessary. Their results were self-evident.

#14 dave34m

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 03:54

2007 and 2008? Very easy, IMO. The way Kimi, Felipe and Lewis drove in 2008 was pretty bad, and Michael would have rang rings around them. 

Oh FFS, he quit because he couldn't get special treatment anymore, Ferrari had to play by the same rules as everybody else and the team personal had changed so he quit. Stop trying so hard to give him championships he didn't even compete in.



#15 George Costanza

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 03:56

Agreed. I've always said this.

 

Schumacher was well ontop of Massa in 2006 and Kimi never really looked like he had his measure.

 

It was clear that Michael was pushed out of Ferrari end of 2005 into early 2006.



#16 George Costanza

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 03:57

Oh FFS, he quit because he couldn't get special treatment anymore, Ferrari had to play by the same rules as everybody else and the team personal had changed so he quit. Stop trying so hard to give him championships he didn't even compete in.

 

That had absolutely nothing to do with it.

 

Luca was tired of Jean Todt and Ross Brawn; and wanted to put Stefano there....      What Luca ddin't see was, that Stefano is obviously not Jean Todt or Ross Brawn. Had Ross been in line to be TP, Michael would probably stayed and I do not believe Ferrari would be a mess today.

Why do you think Michael returned to race again in 2010? Ross Brawn factor without a doubt helped there.... Mercedes wanted him, of course, but Ross was the key.


Edited by George Costanza, 03 April 2014 - 04:00.


#17 ClubmanGT

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 04:17

The best *What if* 8x title was Suzuka 2006.



#18 Thomas99

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 04:19

It was clear that Michael was pushed out of Ferrari end of 2005 into early 2006.

 

ive never understood why



#19 Kingshark

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 04:23

The best *What if* 8x title was Suzuka 2006.

 

Jerez 97 was closer, he was leading comfortably before a technical problem with his car forced him to take "evasive action".



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#20 teejay

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 04:48

ive never understood why

 

Because no one, no one, no one is ever bigger than Ferrari - once the feeling got to the point that he was bigger than the team, it was a ticking time bomb. Probably happened in 04 when he was untouchable.



#21 sennafan24

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 11:32

Schumi could very easily have been a 11 time WDC. Then again it is possible he could have only been a 3 or 4 time WDC.

 

Events effected his total.

 

What if Senna would have lived, would he have won the WDC crown in 1994 or 1995?. There was speculation that Senna would have jumped to Ferrari in 1996/1997. How that would have effected Schumi is up for debate.

 

The tyre rules in mid/late 2003 meant that Schumi gained two titles in 2003 and 2004 that he might not have won otherwise. In contrast, 1997, 1998 and 2006 were all years he almost won, a slight hiccup in his favor and he would have been Champion.

 

I do think Schumi would have won a race if he would have stayed with Mercedes throughout 2013/2014. I also believe that Lewis or Nico would have the measure of him if he would have stayed. Despite Schumi doing pretty well in 2012 against Nico, it is commonly known that Nico stepped up his game in 2013. He put himself through a vigorous training regime to be able to compete against Lewis. Normal service in 2010 and 2011 was that Nico would beat Schumi.

 

I speculate that Nico got a tad complacent in 2012, if you watch Schumi's incident with JEV it was clear his reflexes were not what they once were. He did show signs of the old magic at Monaco 2012, but it was not the same Schumi who handily beat Massa in 2006.


Edited by sennafan24, 03 April 2014 - 11:33.


#22 1Devil1

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 11:52

Schumi could very easily have been a 11 time WDC. Then again it is possible he could have only been a 3 or 4 time WDC.

 

Events effected his total.

 

What if Senna would have lived, would he have won the WDC crown in 1994 or 1995?. There was speculation that Senna would have jumped to Ferrari in 1996/1997. How that would have effected Schumi is up for debate.

 

The tyre rules in mid/late 2003 meant that Schumi gained two titles in 2003 and 2004 that he might not have won otherwise. In contrast, 1997, 1998 and 2006 were all years he almost won, a slight hiccup in his favor and he would have been Champion.

 

I do think Schumi would have won a race if he would have stayed with Mercedes throughout 2013/2014. I also believe that Lewis or Nico would have the measure of him if he would have stayed. Despite Schumi doing pretty well in 2012 against Nico, it is commonly known that Nico stepped up his game in 2013. He put himself through a vigorous training regime to be able to compete against Lewis. Normal service in 2010 and 2011 was that Nico would beat Schumi.

 

I speculate that Nico got a tad complacent in 2012, if you watch Schumi's incident with JEV it was clear his reflexes were not what they once were. He did show signs of the old magic at Monaco 2012, but it was not the same Schumi who handily beat Massa in 2006.

 

I respect your posts normally, but this is BS, it's opinion that mostly Hamilton fans brought into the game after Nico matched him last year. Wouldn't sound that good to be on a level of old Schumacher and Nico...Schumacher in a front car would be different, Nico decided to stay safe most of the races, Michael did everything, fought and crashed sometimes, give people like Schumacher or Alonso a front running car and the excel even more. I have my doubts that Nico would have the measure of Michael in 2013 or 2014. Qualifying likely but race, I don't know. Against Hamilton prime I can't see him (Michael) winning the championship, against Nico I would call it a close match...



#23 sennafan24

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 12:05

I respect your posts normally, but this is BS, it's opinion that mostly Hamilton fans brought into the game after Nico matched him last year. Wouldn't sound that good to be on a level of old Schumacher and Nico...Schumacher in a front car would be different, Nico decided to stay safe most of the races, Michael did everything, fought and crashed sometimes, give people like Schumacher or Alonso a front running car and the excel even more. I have my doubts that Nico would have the measure of Michael in 2013 or 2014. Qualifying likely but race, I don't know. Against Hamilton prime I can't see him (Michael) winning the championship, against Nico I would call it a close match...

Before the 2013 season, I did read several stories about Nico adapting a new approach in preparation for the 2013 season. I am not 100% sure if it is true, but the story was out there before any Lewis fans made excuses (before Spain/Monaco when Nico started to gain victories over Lewis). Whether you believe it is up to you, I get that some could dismiss it as media talk (most drivers talk about "reinventing themselves" heading into a new season)

 

The reason why I believe it is because other people reported it, and mentioned that Nico was really dedicating himself in preparation in 2013.

 

Again though, Schumi's performances in 2010-2012 do not define his career. I also noticed I missed out 1999, I think he would have been Champion in 1999 if not for his injury.


Edited by sennafan24, 03 April 2014 - 12:07.


#24 1Devil1

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 12:18

Before the 2013 season, I did read several stories about Nico adapting a new approach in preparation for the 2013 season. I am not 100% sure if it is true, but the story was out there before any Lewis fans made excuses (before Spain/Monaco when Nico started to gain victories over Lewis). Whether you believe it is up to you, I get that some could dismiss it as media talk (most drivers talk about "reinventing themselves" heading into a new season)

 

The reason why I believe it is because other people reported it, and mentioned that Nico was really dedicating himself in preparation in 2013.

 

Again though, Schumi's performances in 2010-2012 do not define his career. I also noticed I missed out 1999, I think he would have been Champion in 1999 if not for his injury.

 

You referred to commonly known he stepped up his game, a media talk that he had a new approach, is far away from that. Does a new approach mean he is faster or better than the years before? I never heard for example Nico himself saying he was much better than last year. And if you dig deep you can find this for every driver, that he using new methods, common talk before a season. Schumacher made steady progression against Nico, he won the same amount of qualifying's, I see no reason to believe that would have changed from one season to another when the Mercedes car, suffered from the same old problems, the 2013 was better but the basis was the same.  This Rosberg stepped up his game was nothing but a excuse, Hamilton had his troubles to adapt to the new team, but now it seemed he puts the expected gap between him and Rosberg. 


Edited by 1Devil1, 03 April 2014 - 12:23.


#25 sennafan24

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 12:29

You referred to commonly known he stepped up his game, a media talk that he had a new approach, is far away from that. 

Fair play, but we are arguing semantics there. I acknowledged that it is a cliche for drivers to say they are "reinventing " themselves for the new season.

 

No, Nico did not say much about his form, but others did. Which is why I tend to believe he did dedicate himself. The way I read it, it seemed like Nico was just working out more, and studying his craft more. Whether that means he was faster or better is open to debate.

 

You say Schumi made progress against  Nico, why could it not be that Nico digressed in that year in relation to Schumi? It could work both ways. Watching Schumi crash into JEV, underlined to me that Schumi's reflexes were fading fast. I do not take into consideration the years 2010-2012 when accessing Schumi's career, they neither add or take away from his legacy in my opinion.

 

I actually agree that Hamilton fans used that every excuse going for Nico matching him. Which is probably why the notion gets scoffed at. But the line of thinking that Nico was stepping up his game came long before Lewis and Nico fought on track. It must have been later on that Hamilton fans hijacked it as a excuse (I never actually read any Hamilton fans use it as a excuse, but I will take your word for it)


Edited by sennafan24, 03 April 2014 - 12:30.


#26 Seanspeed

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 12:31

Nico probably would have beaten him.

And it would have been even more disheartening for him and his fans.

Edited by Seanspeed, 03 April 2014 - 12:31.


#27 Jejking

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 12:45

The best *What if* 8x title was Suzuka 2006.

Considering the (somewhat) sloppy performances of Ferrari in 1996, 97 and 98 at the start of the season, and technical troubles, there is no reason to believe he would have been able to overtake drivers in the standings over the course of the season if it wasn't for the car being off the pace. Especially 1997 would have been a 'walk', but he retired from high positions a couple of times and that cost him the title. It should have been decided earlier. 2003 wasn't for him to take, but how was he not supposed to take 2004? Tyre regs only influenced the end of 2003 (which is why he started to catch up again), not 2004. 2005 he wasn't good enough, 2006 he made up for it after some cluster****s by Ferrari and himself. 2007 and 2008... he wouldn't have been able to stop Felipe (2008) and especially Kimi (2007) on their days on speed but surely on consistency. In my book that makes for 10 titles, minus at least 1 won by Senna in 1994. Over the course of the season he surely would have beaten Hill, hadn't he fatally crashed in Imola.

 

Because Schumacher was running out of time in his second carreer, he had to drag out everything out of the Merc in 3 years time. His warmup year was surely not enough to beat Rosberg, only in 2011 he got better but his Q was still poor. 2012 was better in that aspect, showing that Schumacher got used to getting the maximum out of mediocre packages but still was error-prone. 2013 would have been the same trend I think, Rosberg being faster a bit in qualifying but at times dropping back in races when the car and/or tyres did something unexpected. 2014 is a big question mark, but I'm sure Schumacher would have been more at ease at the front of the grid than trundling around in the midfield. Being able to negotiate better at 'traffic' because the car is simply better and makes up for his response times fading away ever so slightly (which has undoubtedly happened, he just got older), it would have pushed him on to better results. Enough to beat Nico and especially Lewis? Not sure, but he certainly would have had a good chance. Rosberg responded better to technical challenges in 2013 (f.e. not completely dropping away when the tyres fried out on Lewis' car), but Lewis was a force to be reckoned with already and had more retirements from higher points paying positions.


Edited by Jejking, 03 April 2014 - 12:47.


#28 sennafan24

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 12:50

2003 wasn't for him to take, but how was he not supposed to take 2004? Tyre regs only influenced the end of 2003 (which is why he started to catch up again), not 2004. 

I thought this until lately 

 

But someone on here posted recently that the tyre regulations stunted Michelin's tyres plans for 2004 as well. What Michelin were developing for 2004 suddenly became outlawed, and they could not recover to be competitive with Bridgestone.


Edited by sennafan24, 03 April 2014 - 12:51.


#29 1Devil1

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 12:54

Fair play, but we are arguing semantics there. I acknowledged that it is a cliche for drivers to say they are "reinventing " themselves for the new season.

 

No, Nico did not say much about his form, but others did. Which is why I tend to believe he did dedicate himself. The way I read it, it seemed like Nico was just working out more, and studying his craft more. Whether that means he was faster or better is open to debate.

 

You say Schumi made progress against  Nico, why could it not be that Nico digressed in that year in relation to Schumi? It could work both ways. Watching Schumi crash into JEV, underlined to me that Schumi's reflexes were fading fast. I do not take into consideration the years 2010-2012 when accessing Schumi's career, they neither add or take away from his legacy in my opinion.

 

I actually agree that Hamilton fans used that every excuse going for Nico matching him. Which is probably why the notion gets scoffed at. But the line of thinking that Nico was stepping up his game came long before Lewis and Nico fought on track. It must have been later on that Hamilton fans hijacked it as a excuse (I never actually read any Hamilton fans use it as a excuse, but I will take your word for it)

 

 

There was a trend, I did not discount the opportunity Rosberg would have beaten Michael in 2013, I see a case he is beating Michael quit handy in qualifying but not in the race, they were close since 2010. But I see no big swing in favor for on of the drivers, because the basis of the car were the same..

 

The excuse was overshadowed by the breaks and chassis things, it was used quit often, at the beginning of the season, I believe both Schumacher and Rosberg were top five material that time, and if we change Schumacher with Rosberg, if Schumacher would have matched Hamilton, the crying would be louder, but if you look it that way he was in a new team, couldn't adapt to the new breaks against a top driver. People believed Hamilton would trash Rosberg because, he was the guy who was matched by the over the hill driver the season before. The exception was wrong, if you believe Schumacher/Rosberg were mediocre, you were disappointed or you tried to fix what you thought about Rosberg, if you believe they were one of the strongest pairing on the grid, like Ross Brawn, Lewis had a good first season. The Mercedes car was tricky, we have seen it in 2012 and 2013, with abysmal performances for all drivers. I see it that way, Hamilton had his troubles, because of the car, and he couldn't drive to the max against a top five driver, likely it will change this season.

 

To answer in this context the question: 2013: Car was not good enough, 2014: good chance against Nico, but would have been hard and close, 2014 against Lewis: no chance



#30 sennafan24

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 12:57

There was a trend, I did not discount the opportunity Rosberg would have beaten Michael in 2013, I see a case he is beating Michael quit handy in qualifying but not in the race, they were close since 2010. But I see no big swing in favor for on of the drivers, because the basis of the car were the same..

Fair enough man

 

Likewise, I enjoy your posts, so I will agree to disagree on this one before we turn this thread into a circular debate between the two of us   :up:


Edited by sennafan24, 03 April 2014 - 12:58.


#31 Seanspeed

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 12:57

2007 and 2008... he wouldn't have been able to stop Felipe (2008) and especially Kimi (2007) on their days on speed but surely on consistency.

Sure he would have. I think he would have walked away with the titles both years.

Edited by Seanspeed, 03 April 2014 - 12:58.


#32 1Devil1

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 13:02

Fair enough man

 

Likewise, I enjoy your posts, so I will agree to disagree on this one before we turn this thread into a circular debate between the two of us   :up:

 

:up:  



#33 Jejking

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 13:09

Sure he would have. I think he would have walked away with the titles both years.

That's what I meant ;) On their day they would have been ahead of Schumacher (Germany 2006, where Massa was genuinely stronger than Schumacher f.e., could easily have happened in 2008 as well except that Schumacher would never ever had allowed Hamilton the inside of the corner there ;) ), but over the course of a season he would have been ahead of them and therefore winning the championship for having instead collected more points on the lesser days.

 

 

I thought this until lately 

 

But someone on here posted recently that the tyre regulations stunted Michelin's tyres plans for 2004 as well. What Michelin were developing for 2004 suddenly became outlawed, and they could not recover to be competitive with Bridgestone.

Interesting, I'm open for such suggestions because it would be a good reason why Ferrari/Bridgestone curbstomped them even without having so much teams to work it and collect data. Got a source?


Edited by Jejking, 03 April 2014 - 13:10.


#34 TheUltimateWorrier

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 13:16

 Against Hamilton prime 

 

Here's to hoping that Hamilton Prime has a new helmet for the rest of the season  :)

 

350px-G1OptimusPrimeStockFootage.jpg



#35 1Devil1

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 13:23

Here's to hoping that Hamilton Prime has a new helmet for the rest of the season  :)

 

350px-G1OptimusPrimeStockFootage.jpg

 

Wrong that is Optimus - not in his prime :up:



#36 TheUltimateWorrier

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 13:29

Wrong that is Optimus - not in his prime :up:

 

Forgive me, it's been a long time since I've watched the cartoon and had to rely on google  :p



#37 Anja

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 13:34

I see there's not enough "what if" threads for endless and pointless speculations.



#38 PayasYouRace

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 13:40

 

or even what if Gachot has not lost his temper to that London taxi driver ??! :rolleyes:

 

I suspect he'd have found his way into F1 eventually. Maybe he'd have been a Sauber driver, and then gone to McLaren? Things would have been very different. Who would have been in the Benetton? Martin Brundle?



#39 sennafan24

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 13:49

Interesting, I'm open for such suggestions because it would be a good reason why Ferrari/Bridgestone curbstomped them even without having so much teams to work it and collect data. Got a source?

 

There is an excellent debate about the matter in this thread if you would like to have a read - http://forums.autosp...ar-of-f1/page-3

 

Starting from post 126. It gives you opinions from both sides of the debate so you can make up your own mind  :up:


Edited by sennafan24, 03 April 2014 - 13:50.


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#40 Jon83

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 13:55

I think it was the right time to walk away for both MSC and Mercedes.

 

He is and forever will be my biggest sporting hero.

 

I'm currently reading James Allen's 'Edge of Greatness' book about him - not the best I must say but still interesting none the less.



#41 sennafan24

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 14:03

 

I'm currently reading James Allen's 'Edge of Greatness' book about him - not the best I must say but still interesting none the less.

I really enjoyed that book.

 

A great insight into Schumi's career. I would highly recommend it to anyone reading, it is dirt cheap on amazon as well.


Edited by sennafan24, 03 April 2014 - 14:12.


#42 Jon83

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 14:11

I really enjoyed that book.

 

I great insight into Schumi's career. I would highly recommend it to anyone reading, it is dirt cheap on amazon as well.

 

Yeah I got it for 1p + £2.80 p+p via amazon.

 

I'm only halfway through it. The reason I say it is perhaps not the best is because I think there is a slight over-indulgence in speculation, in part by Mark Webber as it happens.

 

But still very interesting - in particular the part about Senna, the Benneton days and Monaco 2006. Also very interesting to read when personally comparing his 'second career' with his 'first'

 

I'm glad MSC did come back, from a selfish point of view if nothing else, as I saw him drive at Monza in 2010 and 2011, the latter being one of his finest races for Mercedes. But I feel the time was right to call it day. Had he driven for Ferrari still in 2007 and 2008, who knows what else might have been added to his tally.


Edited by Jon83, 03 April 2014 - 14:22.


#43 sennafan24

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 14:15

Yeah I got it for 1p + £2.80 p+p via amazon.

 

I'm only halfway through it. The reason I say it is perhaps not the best is because I think there is a slight over-indulgence in speculation, in part of Mark Webber as it happens.

I know what you mean.

 

Eddie Irvine's opinions seem to crop up a little too often also. Other than that, the sources that Allen used are pretty top-notch.

 

Enjoy the rest of it  :up:



#44 Maikel0230

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 14:20

I think the saying: "Hindsight is a beautifull thing" fits this topic perfectly.

 

I was thinking about this theme myself a couple of days ago but you can't stay stuck on the what ifs, it's the present that counts and matters the most.

 

#KeepFightingMicheal


Edited by Maikel0230, 03 April 2014 - 14:20.


#45 Jon83

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 14:21

I know what you mean.

 

Eddie Irvine's opinions seem to crop up a little too often also. Other than that, the sources that Allen used are pretty top-notch.

 

Enjoy the rest of it  :up:

 

Cheers mate - I will do



#46 Seanspeed

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 16:50

That's what I meant ;) On their day they would have been ahead of Schumacher (Germany 2006, where Massa was genuinely stronger than Schumacher f.e., could easily have happened in 2008 as well except that Schumacher would never ever had allowed Hamilton the inside of the corner there ;) ), but over the course of a season he would have been ahead of them and therefore winning the championship for having instead collected more points on the lesser days.

It was actually quite rare that Massa was genuinely more competitive than Schumacher in 2006. There were usually extraneous circumstances that led to Massa being ahead.

I'm not saying that Schumacher would have won the titles through 'slow but sure' results. I think he would have dominated Felipe on a week by week basis and would have walked away with the title both years. Massa wasn't suddenly just massively better in 2007. He just had a weaker teammate.

#47 RuleyRamundo

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 17:37

Senna would have maybe taken the first two titles off him if events went differently. All If's and But's.

 

Good Luck Schumacher.



#48 MetallurgicalHedonist

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 18:06

It was actually quite rare that Massa was genuinely more competitive than Schumacher in 2006. There were usually extraneous circumstances that led to Massa being ahead.

 

Correct and that's the point, btw, why I don't understand that people say that the MSC of 2006 was past his peak. He was further ahead of Massa in most of the races than he was against Barrichello during 2000-2005 or even against Brundle in 1992. So, the WDC of Alonso can unfortunately not be diminished by claiming that Alonso had to fight against a not-so-good MSC anymore.

 

Brief off-topic-situation: Btw, against Hill (or maybe even Häkkinen) in the Renault and Schumacher would've easily won the WDC in 2006. So it was more Alonso's achievement in 2006 that he didn't have won the WDC in 2006.

 

I'm not saying that Schumacher would have won the titles through 'slow but sure' results. I think he would have dominated Felipe on a week by week basis and would have walked away with the title both years. Massa wasn't suddenly just massively better in 2007. He just had a weaker teammate.

 

MSC maybe would've walked away with the title in 2007 (by more than only one point difference at the end of the season), but only because of the fact that Alonso/Hamilton at McLaren would've cannibalized each other regarding the WDC. MSC certainly wouldn't have walked away with the 2007 title, if de la Rosa and not Hamilton had been Alonso's teammate (as it was first considered by McLaren). Then 2007 would've been more like 2006 for Schumacher.

 

And 2008 he probably certainly would've walked away with the title as the Ferrari was most of the season clearly better. What's not to walk away with that car?

 

And regarding not continuing his career in 2007: everybody knew how fast Montoya could be sometimes and everybody, including MSC, surely witnessed what Räikkönen did to Montoya in 2005 and 2006. And that guy was about to come to Ferrari (and as Massa said, that was a done deal from the end of 2005 onwards).

 

So, is it really that far fetched to think that Schumacher didn't want to compete against that guy because of 2005 and also especially after 2003 where Räikkönen clearly had the inferior car compared to the F2003-GA?

 

He (and everybody else) just couldn't see that there was the possibility that Räikkönen would have some problems by getting used to the F2007.



#49 spacekid

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 18:32

You will not find a bigger Schumi fan than I.

However, although I think Michael acquitted himself very well in 2012, I just don't think it's realistic to expect him to have been, at 45, at the level that Nico and Lewis are on the Merc. Time passes on for all sports people. No one is immune from this.

Watching Michael race was very important to me growing up, and I got to see him do it in some wonderful F1 cars. I was left wanting for nothing.

#50 alframsey

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 18:36

I'm not a fan of MS but I respect him a LOT as a driver. Possible the best driver ever.

I was over the moon when he returned to F1 in 2010 seeing a legend racing again, even if it was painful to observe the rather slow Merc...

 

Given the speed in Merc 2014, is to only me that is a bit sad he didn't stayed one additional year?

It would have been UNREAL to see him jumping on the podium again! Despite not being a fan, I always enjoyed seeing him jumping...

And driving a 2014 Merc I'm quite sure MS would get the 8th title  :up:

What do you think?

 

 

 

PS

Get well soon!

It would have been two additional years, and he has had his time in the sport imo. Left at the right time, possibly too late.