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a modest proposal for equal power


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#1 ray b

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 18:39

if all the cars were   tested for HP at the rear wheels with the gas motor only running

and only allowed to added the amount of electric power to make them equal

 

say the current M-B gas only motor makes 680hp and the Ferrari 650 and R makes 630

then allow each car added electric power to bring all cars up to 800hp at the rear wheels



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#2 KingTiger

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 18:41

Where was this last year when Renault had superior exhaust blowing, torque curve and smallest cooling requirements? 



#3 eronrules

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 18:43

why??? this isnt' a spec series. and shouldn't be. let the strongest win and the lamest loose (i'm looking at you ferrari :mad: )



#4 Markn93

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 18:43

:lol:

 

It's as if building a better engine shouldn't be, either a fundamental part of F1 or rewarded!



#5 SpartanChas

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 18:44

What were renault and ferrari doing last year when mercedes built the best engine?

#6 Jamiednm

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 18:45

if all the cars were   tested for HP at the rear wheels with the gas motor only running

and only allowed to added the amount of electric power to make them equal

 

say the current M-B gas only motor makes 680hp and the Ferrari 650 and R makes 630

then allow each car added electric power to bring all cars up to 800hp at the rear wheels

 

One question: Why?  :rolleyes:



#7 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 18:45

They should allow the non-Mercedes teams an extra 4 day test session to try and close this embarassing (for F1) gap.  It worked for Mercedes last season when they picked up a second a lap after Barcelona.

 

Chilton could be champion if he were in the Mercedes right now.


Edited by halifaxf1fan, 06 April 2014 - 18:48.


#8 F1FAN013

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 18:46

why??? this isnt' a spec series. and shouldn't be. let the strongest win and the lamest loose (i'm looking at you ferrari :mad: )

I agree. Any team who was in Mercedes position wouldn't be complaining. We don't need that in F1. The best team who has produced a great package should reaps the rewards. That's how F1 works.



#9 Coops3

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 18:47

if all the cars were   tested for HP at the rear wheels with the gas motor only running

and only allowed to added the amount of electric power to make them equal

 

say the current M-B gas only motor makes 680hp and the Ferrari 650 and R makes 630

then allow each car added electric power to bring all cars up to 800hp at the rear wheels

 

 

What about a different proposal:

 

If all the cars were tested for downforce in a wind tunnel.

 

Say the current RB has 1500 kilos of downforce at 150 mph and the Merc only has 1400, then make RB stick a pineapple on their rear wing to bring all cars down to 1400.


Edited by Coops3, 06 April 2014 - 18:48.


#10 Brandz07

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 18:47

Why don't we propose equal aero too...  :stoned:



#11 Cool Beans

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 18:48

It's the engine freeze that sucks. I don't mind if a team did a better job but I'd like it if that didn't then get locked in for a year.



#12 LightningMcQueen

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 18:49

I think newey should share all the RBR aero tricks...

Hint - formula 1 is not an aero formula..

#13 ray b

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 18:49

it would also equalize makers with customers

as we only have 3 maker and 8 buyer teams

 

and equalize team mates if one got a lower power motor that they need to use for several races in a row



#14 Jamiednm

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 18:51

I bet the OP advocates school sports days where no one is allowed to lose.



#15 SPBHM

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 18:53

maybe they should all just use the Mercedes engine, and also be forced to use the same aero, right?

 

not really, this is F1, if you built (or bought) a better engine you should race with a better engine.



#16 ray b

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 19:00

do any teams have the option of buying a better motor then the makers provide their own team now ?

 

do any think one here think the makers  would sell a more powerful motor to their buyers and keep the lower power motors for their own team ?



#17 jrwb6e

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 19:01

All I can say is if something does take place, the Mercedes team has nothing to whine about after all of their politicking last year.



#18 jrwb6e

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 19:04

It's the engine freeze that sucks. I don't mind if a team did a better job but I'd like it if that didn't then get locked in for a year.

 

For an engine as advanced as this, freezing it before the season started was the stupidest decision ever.

 

Still, Mercedes didn't do a better job with their car last year but that didn't stop them from doing a secret test and getting the tire rules changed.



#19 ray b

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 19:05

I bet the OP advocates school sports days where no one is allowed to lose.

 no and I do not advocate that or

12 year old playing against 18 year old ether

or a 100 lb kid fighting a 200 pounder



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#20 Ickx

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 19:06

If think it is a good proposal. After all, tyres and engines is not interesting to follow. Why not take it a step further? Sidepods, batteries and flors is not exiting, make them spec. I like the different stering wheels and front wings, that we can keep. I don't like Maldonardo and honestly I have never liked that Alonso is rated higher than Räikkönen and the salaries is too high, just make robots. 

 

Robot driven cars is probably the best, probably spec robots. Front wings is enough for the teams to build. 



#21 Jamiednm

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 19:06

 I do not advocate that or

12 year old playing against 18 year old ether

or a 100 lb kid fighting a 200 pounder

 

What relevance does that have? 



#22 superden

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 19:07

No.



#23 ray b

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 19:08

What relevance does that have? 

equal power makes a level playing field



#24 KingTiger

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 19:09

All I can say is if something does take place, the Mercedes team has nothing to whine about after all of their politicking last year.

 

When was this? 



#25 clown

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 19:10

It's the engine freeze that sucks. I don't mind if a team did a better job but I'd like it if that didn't then get locked in for a year.

Bingo.

F1 being an "engine formula" is fine. But an engine formula with an engine freeze is idiotic.
Could you imagine teams being unable to do aero updates to their car throughout the season during the previous "aero formula"?

#26 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 19:11

Drivers should also be tested in the simulator and the better ones drugged into equivalence.



#27 spacekid

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 19:12

Why?

Everyone knew the regs. If one team has done a better job it's up to the others to pick up their game. That's F1.

#28 DanardiF1

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 19:12

 no and I do not advocate that or

12 year old playing against 18 year old ether

or a 100 lb kid fighting a 200 pounder

 

But that's not the case here. All three 'fighters' are playing to the exact same rules, there's just one that is doing better.



#29 DanardiF1

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 19:12

Drivers should also be tested in the simulator and the better ones drugged into equivalence.

 

Has Maldonado been the test case for that by any chance?



#30 Jamiednm

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 19:15

equal power makes a level playing field

 

It is a level playing field. Mercedes did the best job.



#31 ExFlagMan

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 19:18

To the OP - just stick to watching GP2 or GP3 as that should suit you with the type of racing you are advocating.

Edited by ExFlagMan, 06 April 2014 - 19:18.


#32 TurboF1

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 19:18

No, no, nope, nah, nein.... this is formula 1. It should BE like this, the cutting edge, different teams with different strengths, different engines... it should never be "equalized". You do the best job, you get the reward. That's the point of competition.

#33 wepmob2000

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 19:43

They should allow the non-Mercedes teams an extra 4 day test session to try and close this embarassing (for F1) gap.  It worked for Mercedes last season when they picked up a second a lap after Barcelona.
 
Chilton could be champion if he were in the Mercedes right now.


Why? Vettel has had an absolute rocket-ship and an overrated teammate for the last 4 1/2 years, and has cruised to some very easy wins. Why is it embarrassing now another team has a remarkable advantage. I find it more embarrassing that Renault and Ferrari did such a rubbish job of developing their powertrains compared to Mercedes....

Edited by wepmob2000, 06 April 2014 - 19:44.


#34 Nitropower

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 19:47

Nah what they should do is allow engine development. That would be real F1. Engine freeze is lame

#35 ExFlagMan

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 19:50

And if they did Mercedes would probably be even further ahead by the end of the season.

#36 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 19:52

Why? Vettel has had an absolute rocket-ship and an overrated teammate for the last 4 1/2 years, and has cruised to some very easy wins. Why is it embarrassing now another team has a remarkable advantage. I find it more embarrassing that Renault and Ferrari did such a rubbish job of developing their powertrains compared to Mercedes....

 

Yes they have.  

 

But now they need to be permitted to close the gap which is much much more than anything Red Bull enjoyed as it is costing F1 its credibility and most importantly its viewers.  You must remember this is due to extensive rule changes brought in by the FIA with very little testing permitted.  One manufacturer figured it out but the majority are struggling.  

 

Imo either put in power reductions for Mercedes or allow the others the time they need on track to even the playing field,  I think extra test sessions for the other engine-ed teams would work as it worked very well for Mercedes last season.



#37 Juan Kerr

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 19:55

if all the cars were   tested for HP at the rear wheels with the gas motor only running

and only allowed to added the amount of electric power to make them equal

 

say the current M-B gas only motor makes 680hp and the Ferrari 650 and R makes 630

then allow each car added electric power to bring all cars up to 800hp at the rear wheels

What? Are you mad?? They decided a few years ago what the new rules were gonna be and the new specification, Mercedes have done an amazing job they deserve every single extra bit of horsepower they can get over Renault and Ferrari. If Mercedes are well out in front then its tough luck on everyone else. What are you gonna suggest next....ban Adrian Newey so that the designs are more equal in performance?



#38 Kobasmashi

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 20:02

Thread of the year so far?

#39 Asterion

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 20:07

Thanks for the laughs.

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#40 Nonesuch

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 20:07

Enforced equality is a terrible idea in any environment that is supposed to be competitive, like say, sports. That said, outlawing in-season development is equally terrible.

 

F1 has manoeuvred itself into this awkward position where it wants engine manufacturers to matter, but wants them tied down at the same time.

 

While I'm a little saddened by the big difference between the engines, I hope this serves as a wake-up call to all the teams now adversely affected for agreeing to these dumb rules in the first place.

 

For this same reason I hope the WDC will be decided at the Abu Dhabi Double Points Fireworks Festival.



#41 ExFlagMan

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 20:07

Yes they have.  
 
But now they need to be permitted to close the gap which is much much more than anything Red Bull enjoyed as it is costing F1 its credibility and most importantly its viewers.  You must remember this is due to extensive rule changes brought in by the FIA with very little testing permitted.  One manufacturer figured it out but the majority are struggling.  
 
Imo either put in power reductions for Mercedes or allow the others the time they need on track to even the playing field,  I think extra test sessions for the other engine-ed teams would work as it worked very well for Mercedes last season.

If you go down that road then I assume you would be quite amenable to also allow the 'non-works' Mercedes teams extra testing/development or add a handicap to the Mercedes team for being too quick. And how about adding weight to all the others except the Murussia and Caterham cars, after all they are at a £-zillion budget disadvantage.

If your favourite team cannot hack it under the regulations, either get real and accept it, choose another team or find something else to follow where the rules are manipulated to make it fair, how about the local school egg-and-spoon race.

#42 ExFlagMan

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 20:11

For this same reason I hope the WDC will be decided at the Abu Dhabi Double Points Fireworks Festival.

Lets hope the Giant Catherine Wheel will fall off its pin, roll across the track, taking out all the leading contenders, so that the back marker team cars finish 1-2-3-4 and Bernie has to pay them lots of travel money next year.

Edited by ExFlagMan, 06 April 2014 - 20:20.


#43 krobinson

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 20:12

They should allow the non-Mercedes teams an extra 4 day test session to try and close this embarassing (for F1) gap.  It worked for Mercedes last season when they picked up a second a lap after Barcelona.

 

Chilton could be champion if he were in the Mercedes right now.

Just like Chilton could have been the champion in the Red Bull every year since 2009.

 

Yes they have.  

 

But now they need to be permitted to close the gap which is much much more than anything Red Bull enjoyed as it is costing F1 its credibility and most importantly its viewers.  You must remember this is due to extensive rule changes brought in by the FIA with very little testing permitted.  One manufacturer figured it out but the majority are struggling.  

 

Imo either put in power reductions for Mercedes or allow the others the time they need on track to even the playing field,  I think extra test sessions for the other engine-ed teams would work as it worked very well for Mercedes last season.

What costed F1 viewers was the dominance of Red Bull where one driver was unmotivated, old and slow and was given the barrichello treatment by the team and the other driver was an overrated arrogant guy who is not popular with F1 fans.

 

The rules are the same for everyone, Mercedes did the best job, they deserve to win. Were rules changed in any other season (mid-season) to stop RB from having a 1 second per lap faster car than other cars for almost 5 years in row? Were you crying for those changes back then?



#44 Shambolic

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 20:19

Let's also have success ballast, spec chassis, spec gearboxes, spec aero, and..

Oh, on second thoughts - This is a competition between teams, not a "Everyone's a winner, there's no such thing as second place" drab dumbing down of humanity in the name of grey gloop homogenisation. So no.

#45 Nustang70

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 20:22

Based on the thread title, I thought this was going to be a Swiftian proposal for the big teams to be able to gobble up the smaller teams within their respective engine stables. 



#46 spacekid

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 20:30

Nah what they should do is allow engine development. That would be real F1. Engine freeze is lame


Good point, well made.

Edited by spacekid, 06 April 2014 - 20:30.


#47 Jon83

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 20:31

And just destroy F1 whilst you're at it. 

 

Mercedes did the best job engine-wise and as a team. The others will need to do whatever they can to catch up. 



#48 ollebompa

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 20:32

It's not GP1. All hail the ones who have done a better job. Homologation is bullshit though.

Edited by ollebompa, 06 April 2014 - 20:34.


#49 itsademo

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 20:33

They should allow the non-Mercedes teams an extra 4 day test session to try and close this embarassing (for F1) gap.  It worked for Mercedes last season when they picked up a second a lap after Barcelona.

 

Chilton could be champion if he were in the Mercedes right now.

somehow i doubt that as he would not stand a chance against either current merc driver



#50 4MEN

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 20:33

What doesn't make sense to me is the engine freeze before the competition started, before anybody knew where they were performance wise. Give them 1 year of development and the freeze it!