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Were Mercedes foolish to show the full advantage of their car in the Bahrain GP? [split]


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#1 as65p

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 19:32

I wonder how smart it was from the teams perspective to show their true advantage (assumimg that was indeed it and they aren't really 4 secs faster than the rest). It would probably have been wiser to restrict both cars somehow during those last laps after the SC. The battle would have been the same, just with slower laptimes. Now that everyone has seen what they can do that will make Bernie and Co nervous cause it's bad for business in the middle and long term to have only 2 cars compete for victory.



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#2 RubalSher

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 19:38

I wonder how smart it was from the teams perspective to show their true advantage (assumimg that was indeed it and they aren't really 4 secs faster than the rest). It would probably have been wiser to restrict both cars somehow during those last laps after the SC. The battle would have been the same, just with slower laptimes. Now that everyone has seen what they can do that will make Bernie and Co nervous cause it's bad for business in the middle and long term to have only 2 cars compete for victory.

 

I thought exactly the same and this is one reason I was not happy they were allowed to race. They should have been forced to hold station after the SC, in my opinion of course.



#3 SophieB

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 19:45

I wonder how smart it was from the teams perspective to show their true advantage (assumimg that was indeed it and they aren't really 4 secs faster than the rest). It would probably have been wiser to restrict both cars somehow during those last laps after the SC. The battle would have been the same, just with slower laptimes. Now that everyone has seen what they can do that will make Bernie and Co nervous cause it's bad for business in the middle and long term to have only 2 cars compete for victory.

Probably more an interesting thread in its own right, but the public didn't seem to mind Prost and Senna scrapping it out in the MP4-4, one of the most dominant cars there has ever been. Sure, some of that was probably because hey, that was Alain Prost and Ayrton Senna but some of it I think was because it was a tight fight at the front. It wasn't one guy strolling home each week, and I suspect that makes a hell of a difference to viewers.

#4 as65p

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 19:51

Probably more an interesting thread in its own right, but the public didn't seem to mind Prost and Senna scrapping it out in the MP4-4, one of the most dominant cars there has ever been. Sure, some of that was probably because hey, that was Alain Prost and Ayrton Senna but some of it I think was because it was a tight fight at the front. It wasn't one guy strolling home each week, and I suspect that makes a hell of a difference to viewers.

 

TBH, as much as I remember about those ancient times, the viewing and attendance figures are not among them, but I have a hunch at the time it was also seen as a negative that McLaren dominated. I think much of that seasons legendary appeal only developed years later.



#5 SophieB

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 20:01

TBH, as much as I remember about those ancient times, the viewing and attendance figures are not among them, but I have a hunch at the time it was also seen as a negative that McLaren dominated. I think much of that seasons legendary appeal only developed years later.


Hmmn, now you've got me doubting a long held belief a bit that at the time, the general public (of the uk anyway) were kind of gripped by who would emerge victorious in that duel, especially because of the driver emnity. But I was kind of young, hindsight can reshape reality and F1 just seemed somehow bigger back then in general. Hmmn.

#6 Kyo

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 20:17

Probably more an interesting thread in its own right, but the public didn't seem to mind Prost and Senna scrapping it out in the MP4-4, one of the most dominant cars there has ever been. Sure, some of that was probably because hey, that was Alain Prost and Ayrton Senna but some of it I think was because it was a tight fight at the front. It wasn't one guy strolling home each week, and I suspect that makes a hell of a difference to viewers.

Not really a tight fight inside the track, only in the standings. But yeah, the fact that no one knew who would end up champion and especially the politics and the drivers personalities is what made people turn on their television. You didn't just want to watch a race, you wanted to know everything that was happening in the background.



#7 as65p

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 21:04

Hmmn, now you've got me doubting a long held belief a bit that at the time, the general public (of the uk anyway) were kind of gripped by who would emerge victorious in that duel, especially because of the driver emnity. But I was kind of young, hindsight can reshape reality and F1 just seemed somehow bigger back then in general. Hmmn.

 

The feud wasn't really a big theme in 1988, to the public it only broke out from Imola '89 onwards. I've got the main UK mags of the time all at home, if you give me a written, signed and sealed official research order to show to my wife and family I'll retract to a closed room over the weekend and tell you the public vibe in the UK 1988 by Monday! :D



#8 femi

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 21:14

I wonder how smart it was from the teams perspective to show their true advantage (assumimg that was indeed it and they aren't really 4 secs faster than the rest). It would probably have been wiser to restrict both cars somehow during those last laps after the SC. The battle would have been the same, just with slower laptimes. Now that everyone has seen what they can do that will make Bernie and Co nervous cause it's bad for business in the middle and long term to have only 2 cars compete for victory.

 

Maybe they did hold back:
http://www.f1fanatic...milton-rosberg/



#9 Watkins74

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 21:17

Hmmn, now you've got me doubting a long held belief a bit that at the time, the general public (of the uk anyway) were kind of gripped by who would emerge victorious in that duel, especially because of the driver emnity. But I was kind of young, hindsight can reshape reality and F1 just seemed somehow bigger back then in general. Hmmn.

 

I could comment on 1988 as I am ancient, but that would be off-topic.   ;)  :)



#10 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 21:19

I wonder how smart it was from the teams perspective to show their true advantage (assumimg that was indeed it and they aren't really 4 secs faster than the rest). It would probably have been wiser to restrict both cars somehow during those last laps after the SC. The battle would have been the same, just with slower laptimes. Now that everyone has seen what they can do that will make Bernie and Co nervous cause it's bad for business in the middle and long term to have only 2 cars compete for victory.

 

Why aren't the qually times showing the 2.5 to 3 second advantage that was seen at end of the race? In qually it was just under a second back to Ricciardo.


Edited by halifaxf1fan, 08 April 2014 - 21:19.


#11 Nemo1965

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 21:28

The feud wasn't really a big theme in 1988, to the public it only broke out from Imola '89 onwards. I've got the main UK mags of the time all at home, if you give me a written, signed and sealed official research order to show to my wife and family I'll retract to a closed room over the weekend and tell you the public vibe in the UK 1988 by Monday! :D

 

Correct. It was only afterwards the feud grew into the awareness of the general public. But it was pretty obvious when Senna drove Prost off on purpose - as he admitted later - in Suzuka.

 

There is one thing I want to add to that. The fight of Senna-Prost and the rivalry in hindsight was gripping, exciting... but at the time it was terrible for those involved, I think. For Prost, for Senna, even for some rational thinker as Ron Dennis. It was only in 1994 that Senna realised what Prost had meant for him, for his career, for his development, for his life. Hence he said, in the morning lap round around Imola: 'We miss you Alain!'

 

It would be great if Rosberg and Hamilton enjoy the battle as they are having it, not in years hindsight.



#12 SophieB

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 21:33

I will split off the 'were Merc foolish to show their full hand' stuff into its own thread. Tomorrow though, because I'm too tired now. Zzzzzz.

#13 as65p

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 21:35

Correct. It was only afterwards the feud grew into the awareness of the general public. But it was pretty obvious when Senna drove Prost off on purpose - as he admitted later - in Suzuka.

 

That was another year later, of course. But yes, it was pretty obvious already from what happened 1989 in Suzuka.



#14 Nemo1965

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 21:37

That was another year later, of course. But yes, it was pretty obvious already from what happened 1989 in Suzuka.

 

I meant ofcourse a year later, my mistake not to write that down.



#15 scheivlak

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 22:10

Probably more an interesting thread in its own right, but the public didn't seem to mind Prost and Senna scrapping it out in the MP4-4, one of the most dominant cars there has ever been. Sure, some of that was probably because hey, that was Alain Prost and Ayrton Senna but some of it I think was because it was a tight fight at the front. It wasn't one guy strolling home each week, and I suspect that makes a hell of a difference to viewers.

(OT :blush: ) To me, and I think I wasn't not completely alone in this, 1988 was -certainly at the start- an extremely disappointing year to follow. Specifically because all the years before were so fascinating and gripping! It felt like something was stolen from us: where the hell were Williams, Lotus and Ferrari suddenly?! One funny thing is that it took me quite a while  to acknowledge that the MP 4/4 didn't look too bad after all. For most of the year just the looks of the MP 4/4 just irritated the hell out of me because it boringly lead every race - promoting some cancerous stuff as well.... (I notice this because in the earlier "ugly car" thread this year some posters told us time and again that specifically pointed at the MP 4/4 as the standard of acknowledged transcendental beauty. But here as well beauty is the eye of the beholder....)

 

So, for me, it took a few races to acknowledge that something else might be interesting as well: the struggle between Senna and Prost as such. In which I felt: Prost=humanity, Senna=animal and/or God.  

And that, rather than what happened on track (because the struggle was often more strategic than "real time') was the gripping thing. Maybe the feud reached the common sports fan only in 1989. But as I remember it, for the real  F1 affiacados it started already in 1988 because it was the archetypical F1 fight: 'intelligence' versus 'boldness' (shades of e.g. Lauda/Hunt), this time between two drivers of the same team - who happened to be the best drivers of their age in the best car of their day...... 

 

And let's face it: overall the races themselves in 1988 were - compared to the races we see the last few years, but also compared to those in 1987 or 1989 - tremendously boring. The showdown between Senna and Prost was interesting because they, at the same time, presented two different ways of perfection by representing two completely different attitudes to reach perfection.

 

That said, the 1989 Argentine GP is still one of my favourite races ever - there was an alternative for 1988!


Edited by scheivlak, 08 April 2014 - 22:33.


#16 SophieB

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 05:44

I will split off the 'were Merc foolish to show their full hand' stuff into its own thread. Tomorrow though, because I'm too tired now. Zzzzzz.

And now you are magically reading that thread. So, a couple of interesting questions:

Is it likely this dominant a car is bad for ratings, increasing the threat that Merc might find the sport making an intervention in some way or might it make a difference to viewers if there is a big fight there is at the front? (As is noted, looks like my memory of 1988 was hazy but direct comparisons with the past are probably only going to take us so far anyway)

If it was foolish of Mercedes to show their hand, did they have other more sensible options?

#17 teejay

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 05:47

I think people got bored of a single guy dominating.

 

An inter-team battle like the one brewing could be epic.

 

I spent the last 10 laps of the race shaking from nerves!



#18 eronrules

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 05:51

and who's to say they showed there full hand??? both Renault and Ferrari were so lame that Merc could just be cruising for all they care. track layout has it's influence as well. 



#19 boldhakka

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 06:03

Now that everyone has seen what they can do that will make Bernie and Co nervous cause it's bad for business in the middle and long term to have only 2 cars compete for victory.

 

Even if they hid their hand now, It would become pretty obvious in a few races time that in fact only the two Mercs were really competing for victory. It would leave more hope that the others would catch up quicker, but at the end of the season that hope too would be dashed. 


Edited by boldhakka, 09 April 2014 - 06:04.


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#20 SophieB

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 06:05

and who's to say they showed there full hand??? both Renault and Ferrari were so lame that Merc could just be cruising for all they care. track layout has it's influence as well.


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As fast as I can go
The Rambler pulled along side of me
As if we were going slow
The fella rolled down his window
And yelled for me to hear
"Hey buddy how do I get this car out of second gear?"


#21 Jamiednm

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 06:16

It was good to unleash the W05s full performance. The sooner the opposition realise they have no chance, the sooner their morale will be destroyed :D

#22 LuckyStrike1

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 06:20

What choice did they have? 

 

"Hey guys go at it but remember fight but never exceeed laptime delta + 2"? (F1 like its codes and nerdy engineer stuff) 

 

"Hold station. Nico, Multi whatever. Stay behind Lewis" 

 

First option is not possible, you can't have drivers fight for the lead and driver 2 seconds slower (or whatever) than the car can do. 

 

Second option would creat an outcry among the public and yet another team order gate - and with all rights because it would be another stupid team order. 


Edited by LuckyStrike1, 09 April 2014 - 06:20.


#23 Zoetrope

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 06:45

I think the team wants to rub it in and doesn't care about what Bernie thinks. If you did some amazing job, would you like to hide it?



#24 Thomas99

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 06:49

Probably more an interesting thread in its own right, but the public didn't seem to mind Prost and Senna scrapping it out in the MP4-4, one of the most dominant cars there has ever been. Sure, some of that was probably because hey, that was Alain Prost and Ayrton Senna but some of it I think was because it was a tight fight at the front. It wasn't one guy strolling home each week, and I suspect that makes a hell of a difference to viewers.

 

That was at the end of a regulation set with the turbo motors about to move to n/a engines. The W05 is at the start of a regulation set which could carry on for the next 5 years.



#25 Lazy

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 06:49

It's sort of the point isn't it? "Look how amazing our engineering is."

 

Certainly from Stuttgart's point of view.



#26 stobiesaur

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 06:51

I think it was a brilliant decision.  Nothing like taking away all hope from your competition by unleashing the full potential of your car! Still not sure why the gap would be so much quicker than in qualy



#27 LuckyStrike1

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 06:53

You can't hide a dominant car and we knew long before the Bahrain race that Mercedes is on another planet compared to the other cars this year. 



#28 SophieB

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 06:57

I think the team wants to rub it in and doesn't care about what Bernie thinks. If you did some amazing job, would you like to hide it?

 

I might do if I believed it could lead to the sport suddenly deciding they needed to bring in urgent changes that, alas, seemed to affect my car most of all.



#29 Nemo1965

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 07:00

Another thing I would like to add to the idea that Mercedes would not like to show their hand. As another poster said: that would lead to strange radio-messages where the drivers are told to hold station (multi xx), which would lead to drivers suddenly slowing, which would lead to mass speculation, which would lead to the scream of 'teamorders!', and soforth...

Just imagine what would happen - and it would happen - if Rosberg would win the championship, and there was a smitten of doubt that Hamilton had the freedom and possibilities to really race Rosberg... it would lead to a massive backlash for Mercedes. You can moan all you want about the 'corporate' character of F1 and life in general, but at least it presses big companies on the issue: you just can't be bastards anymore and still expect people to buy and dig your stuff.

 

Not that I believe, I might add, that Mercedes is letting Rosberg and Hamilton race for corporate reasons. I think all the people involved - Wollf, Lauda, andsoforth - genuinely want real racing. But... you know what I am writing.


Edited by Nemo1965, 09 April 2014 - 07:03.


#30 Metronazol

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 07:03

I might do if I believed it could lead to the sport suddenly deciding they needed to bring in urgent changes that, alas, seemed to affect my car most of all.

 

If they changed the rules now to bring the Merc back to the pack in some way, they would make Martyr's out of them. The absolute cacaphony of protests from Merc fans and the team alike would probably be as bad for the sport as the domination too. They cant be seen to be punishing the big manufacturers for doing the best job, otherwise they will all just call it a day and then F1 will be in a fairly large mess.



#31 repcobrabham

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 07:05

I think it was great - teammates with a win each to their name fighting for the third top step of the season and clearly not holding back. it shut a lot of whingers up. who gives a shit about team / corporate tactics? leave that to the bean-counters and geeks on the payroll.



#32 SanDiegoGo

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 07:11

No, it was good for them as it will simply demoralize the opposition and as the rules are fixed for the season, force the teams to push resources to 2015 leaving Merc with a cake walk to the title. :clap:

 

Are we still talking about past rivalries and animosity between team mates? Beeeecause, I found it vey odd that Lewis came out and said that he and Nico werent as close as people thought. They live in the same building and he said he has been to dinner at Nico's place and they seem very friendly together at all times. So, it's almost as if it may be an attempt to create a classic rivalry to add to the spectacle of two drivers in a very dominant car.



#33 slideways

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 07:16

From a fans perspective it's great. From Mercedes - it's a risk. I would not put it past the FIA to capitulate to Ferrari / RBR. Whether it's fuel flow, tyre compound or something else they come up with. And of course the bigger the gap, the harder the other teams will push.



#34 SophieB

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 07:18

If they changed the rules now to bring the Merc back to the pack in some way, they would make Martyr's out of them. The absolute cacaphony of protests from Merc fans and the team alike would probably be as bad for the sport as the domination too. They cant be seen to be punishing the big manufacturers for doing the best job, otherwise they will all just call it a day and then F1 will be in a fairly large mess.

 

Fan/team outcry is something the sport's powers-that-be seem to have distintly selective hearing over. Engines sound a bit crap and also some of the sport's most powerful teams are losing out? We must urgently investigate this because we're concerned the fans will hate it! Double points? Pardon, can't hear you and moving on.

 

They will of course not want to alienate Mercedes but it is a balance. The sport also can't really afford to have Ferrari and Renault struggling too badly for too long.



#35 slideways

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 07:18

Another thing I would like to add to the idea that Mercedes would not like to show their hand. As another poster said: that would lead to strange radio-messages where the drivers are told to hold station (multi xx), which would lead to drivers suddenly slowing, which would lead to mass speculation, which would lead to the scream of 'teamorders!', and soforth...

Just imagine what would happen - and it would happen - if Rosberg would win the championship, and there was a smitten of doubt that Hamilton had the freedom and possibilities to really race Rosberg... it would lead to a massive backlash for Mercedes. You can moan all you want about the 'corporate' character of F1 and life in general, but at least it presses big companies on the issue: you just can't be bastards anymore and still expect people to buy and dig your stuff.

 

Not that I believe, I might add, that Mercedes is letting Rosberg and Hamilton race for corporate reasons. I think all the people involved - Wollf, Lauda, andsoforth - genuinely want real racing. But... you know what I am writing.

 

They can easily just turn power down via maps without relying on the drivers to do it. In fact if you look at the Merc fuel usage, it's way below most of the other teams, meaning they still could push things further.



#36 Bartonz20let

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 07:20

If they changed the rules now to bring the Merc back to the pack in some way, they would make Martyr's out of them. The absolute cacaphony of protests from Merc fans and the team alike would probably be as bad for the sport as the domination too. They cant be seen to be punishing the big manufacturers for doing the best job, otherwise they will all just call it a day and then F1 will be in a fairly large mess.


Absolutely agree, I think in season changes are simply out of the question and I'd be interested what they could actually do to slow the Merc, it's so fast the handicap would need to be fairly drastic and obvious.

The only thing that can be done now is make development for the other teams easier/cheaper for 2015 or by creating some sort of level playing field in next years rules but without knowing the full reasons for mercs speed, this could be a wasted effort too.

#37 Metronazol

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 07:37

Fan/team outcry is something the sport's powers-that-be seem to have distintly selective hearing over. Engines sound a bit crap and also some of the sport's most powerful teams are losing out? We must urgently investigate this because we're concrned the fans will hate it! Double points? Pardon, can't hear you and moving on.

 

They will of course not want to alienate Mercedes but it is a balance. The sport also can't really afford to have Ferrari and Renault struggling too badly for too long.

 

 

Ferrari struggled for many a long year before the Schuamacher era, and do they really want to be 'in it' artificially? I'd say that would cheapen the Ferrari name much more than the poor engine that they have right now. I agree about the selective hearing though, although I think a lot of LdM's comments are designed to take the focus away from the poor car and try and lay the blame for it elsewhere... wouldn't be suprised if Uncle Bernie is in on that particular line of commenting too. Not like Bernie doesn't have previous for giving Ferrari a bit of a leg up every now and then.

 

There's a hell of a lot of politicking going on right now, its almost as absorbing as the racing itself.



#38 E.B.

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 07:39

The feud wasn't really a big theme in 1988, to the public it only broke out from Imola '89 onwards.


Prost made some pointed comments after the Estoril pit wall incident in 1988, but as you say the feud only started the following year. I remember reading a tiny section in the post-Imola Autosport saying that Prost seemed unhappy after the race but that the reasons were a mystery. I thought little more of it at the time, but in retrospect it was the point at which a legendary rivalry got a whole lot more interesting.

#39 e34

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 08:14

A call to that Hembery guy could do it.

 

Change tyre compounds til they no longer fit Mercedes and the difference in performance would probably reduce. 

 

And if it doesn't have the desired effect, quietly tell Mercedes that their two-piece turbo is a movable aero device, and that they have to change its design. 

 

The list of possibilities FIA has available is long. 



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#40 bauss

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 08:16

once again the gapping after the safety car wasn't truly reflective of the performance difference... almost every other car including both Red Bulls for example, had 6 - 7 lap older tires.



#41 stewie

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 08:42

I don't know why, but I'd rather see Mercedes scrapping it out amongst themselves than Red Bull. RBR seems to have an underhand, biased, secretive way of racing where as Mercedes seems to be much more on a level playing field.

 

And it's also better to see two team mates scrapping it out together ala 1988 than a year like, say, 1992 where Mansell was so far ahead of Patrese.

 

On the subject of the Senna/Prost rivalry, I have kinda come to the opinion that Senna wouldn't be the great he now is if he didn't have Prost (who is an amazing driver in himself) pushing him to the absolute limit. And I suppose the same could be said about Prost.



#42 as65p

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 08:42

Even if they hid their hand now, It would become pretty obvious in a few races time that in fact only the two Mercs were really competing for victory. It would leave more hope that the others would catch up quicker, but at the end of the season that hope too would be dashed. 

Yep, but the longer the hope [of other being able to catch up] is alive, the smaller the chance of interference from tne rulemakers, isn't it? I mean, it's not as if there weren't some noises already to tweak the rules, a bit more fuel allowance etc.. Of course none of us here has access to all that's going behind the scenes, but to me it appears MGP prime objective has to be to keep this as stable as possible while they're dominating, and that includes only showing the least amount of superiority neccessary to keep on winning.



#43 tifosiMac

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 08:48

Do we know that Mercedes did show the full advantage of their car in Bahrain though?

 

Teams want to build cars that go faster and that drive is always there. Just because Mercedes showed they have a much faster package doesn't mean the other teams were sitting on their hands.

 

It could be that both Merc cars were running on 90% and with the lead they had, I doubt they needed to risk blowing an engine or two even if both drivers were fighting for position. As long as the machinery was equal between Nico and Lewis, we could see more to come I think :)



#44 Buttoneer

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 08:59

And now you are magically reading that thread. So, a couple of interesting questions:

Is it likely this dominant a car is bad for ratings, increasing the threat that Merc might find the sport making an intervention in some way or might it make a difference to viewers if there is a big fight there is at the front? (As is noted, looks like my memory of 1988 was hazy but direct comparisons with the past are probably only going to take us so far anyway)

If it was foolish of Mercedes to show their hand, did they have other more sensible options?

 

Dieter Rencken has an interesting item on Bernie trying to buy back F1 from CVC. He makes the good point that the noise row and dominance of one team will help to make the product less popular, therefore cheaper, therefore a poorer ROI for CVC and more likely to be sold to him at a bargain price.

 

Paywall; http://plus.autospor...to-buy-f1-back/

 

Long term, I don't think dominance is any good for the sport, but at least this year it's a different team and as as been said more than once, at least there's a real battle at the front.

 

What choice did they have? 

 

"Hey guys go at it but remember fight but never exceeed laptime delta + 2"? (F1 like its codes and nerdy engineer stuff) 

 

"Hold station. Nico, Multi whatever. Stay behind Lewis" 

 

First option is not possible, you can't have drivers fight for the lead and driver 2 seconds slower (or whatever) than the car can do. 

 

Second option would creat an outcry among the public and yet another team order gate - and with all rights because it would be another stupid team order. 

There were two sets of team orders at Malaysia last year.  Only the Red Bull one kept getting coverage all year.  I think for the most part, even if they don't like it, most people accept that F1 is a team sport.

 

If they don't, then it will help devalue and generate a lower price for Bernie.



#45 LuckyStrike1

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 09:10

Dieter Rencken has an interesting item on Bernie trying to buy back F1 from CVC. He makes the good point that the noise row and dominance of one team will help to make the product less popular, therefore cheaper, therefore a poorer ROI for CVC and more likely to be sold to him at a bargain price.

 

Paywall; http://plus.autospor...to-buy-f1-back/

 

Long term, I don't think dominance is any good for the sport, but at least this year it's a different team and as as been said more than once, at least there's a real battle at the front.

 

There were two sets of team orders at Malaysia last year.  Only the Red Bull one kept getting coverage all year.  I think for the most part, even if they don't like it, most people accept that F1 is a team sport.

 

If they don't, then it will help devalue and generate a lower price for Bernie.

 

 

If think everyone are aware of the team orders ;) 

I think there is a time and a place for team orders, and overall I think people want to see drivers race each other - even team mates in a dominant position. Although I'm sure everyone, or most, would have understood the logics and thinking behind a team order in Bahrain for the final 10 laps - compared to Williams stupid move in Malaysia - I don't think it would have been very popular, and the way Mercedes acted probably gained them a lot of good will. And at some point you have to accept the fact  that you have professional drivers that for the most part know exactly what they are doing, and has just as little interest in crashing out as the team has. 


Edited by LuckyStrike1, 09 April 2014 - 09:17.


#46 Jon83

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 09:12

No



#47 Newbrray

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 09:12

I don't believe their full  hand was really shown but not because of lack of trying.

 

E.g - The mercedes though finished 24 secs ahead of the nearest non-Mercedes works team and even though some say other cars were on 5-6 Lap older tyres (Most on the soft mind you)  this is negated by the fact that hamilton was on the mediums and the other cars were on the softs so they should at least have been on par, also in the last 10 Laps Hamilton on mediums never had the benefit of the DRS, something all the cars behind made use of for every sigle lap (including Nico). I don't think there was a benefit to Mercedes from that point of view.

 

Nico on the other hand I believe if in front with his softer tyres and didn't have Hamilton to contend with will have stretched that gap to more than 24 secs.

 

We also have to consider that the 2 Mercedes cars were locked in battle for position lap after lap which would have cost them reasonable amount of time. All in all I think they could have stretched this to over 30 secs if

 

Hamilton was on softs

Had DRS like those behind him

They both were not locked in a battle for position for the last 10 laps

 

I don't think their full hand was shown but not because they didn't want to, just the way it played out



#48 PayasYouRace

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 09:18

They can easily just turn power down via maps without relying on the drivers to do it. In fact if you look at the Merc fuel usage, it's way below most of the other teams, meaning they still could push things further.

 

The drivers would have to do it though. Pit to car telemetry is banned.

 

I think it probably was the true pace, unless the cars were turned down in the pits before the race. The drivers seemed to be having a genuine fight, and not just putting on a show for the fans. Good on Mercedes for allowing it (I don't think the radio messages were any more than "be careful" despite what Ted thought on Sky).

 

Just a couple of thoughts on 1988. I've never thought the MP4/4 was a beautiful car. Functionally elegant perhaps, but it's a Hurricane, not a Spitfire. I'm too young to have experienced that season, but I think there are a couple of factors that affect our thoughts on it now. Knowledge of the Senna/Prost feud is one, and has already been addressed, but the other is how each driver was seen at the time. Prost was considered the best by most, but only a twice champion. Senna was an up-and-coming talent. He had a few wins in the good but not great Lotuses, but there must have been question marks about how he'd perform against Alain at the time.  Especially if we're comparing to this year after 3 races, which included Monaco.

 

So I wonder how this year will be perceived once Hamilton and Rosberg have retired.



#49 sabjit

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 09:18

I think people got bored of a single guy dominating.

 

An inter-team battle like the one brewing could be epic.

 

I spent the last 10 laps of the race shaking from nerves!

 

Oh, come on. Why do so many people make this very simple mistake. Inter-team means between teams. You are looking for Intra-team, which is within a team.



#50 Retrofly

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 09:18

No

 

The quicker the rest of the teams realize they have no hope for 2014, the quicker they will move to 2015.

 

Which will also free up Mercedes to move to 2015.

 

If a team keep fighting then so will Merc.