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Best current drivers [Speed][Your Top 6]


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Poll: Please exactly 6 nominees per questions (290 member(s) have cast votes)

Your top 6 qualifiers? [pure speed, error proneness, choking included]

  1. Sebastian Vettel (228 votes [15.12%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.12%

  2. Daniel Ricciardo (168 votes [11.14%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.14%

  3. Lewis Hamilton (265 votes [17.57%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.57%

  4. Nico Rosberg (194 votes [12.86%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.86%

  5. Fernando Alonso (168 votes [11.14%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.14%

  6. Kimi Raikkonen (81 votes [5.37%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.37%

  7. Romain Grosjean (86 votes [5.70%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.70%

  8. Pastor Maldonado (28 votes [1.86%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.86%

  9. Jenson Button (16 votes [1.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.06%

  10. Kevin Magnussen (29 votes [1.92%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.92%

  11. Nico Hulkenberg (152 votes [10.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.08%

  12. Sergio Perez (17 votes [1.13%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.13%

  13. Felipe Massa (21 votes [1.39%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.39%

  14. Valtteri Bottas (55 votes [3.65%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.65%

Your top 6 in best race pace? [pure speed, consistency, relentlessness included]

  1. Sebastian Vettel (220 votes [14.49%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.49%

  2. Daniel Ricciardo (72 votes [4.74%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.74%

  3. Lewis Hamilton (240 votes [15.81%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.81%

  4. Nico Rosberg (185 votes [12.19%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.19%

  5. Fernando Alonso (251 votes [16.53%])

    Percentage of vote: 16.53%

  6. Kimi Raikkonen (204 votes [13.44%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.44%

  7. Romain Grosjean (22 votes [1.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.45%

  8. Pastor Maldonado (7 votes [0.46%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.46%

  9. Jenson Button (114 votes [7.51%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.51%

  10. Kevin Magnussen (14 votes [0.92%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.92%

  11. Nico Hulkenberg (148 votes [9.75%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.75%

  12. Sergio Perez (17 votes [1.12%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.12%

  13. Felipe Massa (3 votes [0.20%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.20%

  14. Valtteri Bottas (21 votes [1.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.38%

Your top 6 of overtakers? [spacial awareness, ahead planning, guts, bad judgement, fairness included]

  1. Sebastian Vettel (164 votes [11.16%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.16%

  2. Daniel Ricciardo (74 votes [5.03%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.03%

  3. Lewis Hamilton (252 votes [17.14%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.14%

  4. Nico Rosberg (78 votes [5.31%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.31%

  5. Fernando Alonso (232 votes [15.78%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.78%

  6. Kimi Raikkonen (219 votes [14.90%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.90%

  7. Romain Grosjean (37 votes [2.52%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.52%

  8. Pastor Maldonado (6 votes [0.41%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.41%

  9. Jenson Button (137 votes [9.32%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.32%

  10. Kevin Magnussen (22 votes [1.50%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.50%

  11. Nico Hulkenberg (148 votes [10.07%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.07%

  12. Sergio Perez (48 votes [3.27%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.27%

  13. Valtteri Bottas (53 votes [3.61%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.61%

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#1 Zoetrope

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 12:34

I am curious about how forumers view the top drivers at the moment. I would like to ask you to pick exactly 6 best drivers in each department. Not less so we don't end up with same drivers everywhere, but also not more so the results are not blurred. This will allow also not outright best drivers to score points and widen the spectrum of analysis.

I am more interested about the cumulative perception than your personal order, but of course if you wish to share your own list from number 1 down to number 6, this thread is open to discussion.

Feel free to debate about the flaws of the questions too, if you find them inadequate or incomplete and add that opinion in your post.

  1. Your top 6 qualifiers? [pure speed,  error proneness, choking included]
  2. Your top 6 in best race pace? [pure speed, consistency, relentlessness included]
  3. Your top 6 overtakers? [spatial awareness, ahead planning, guts, bad judgement, fairness included]

Since we can only have 3 polls per topic here is the link to the best drivers in management discussion.

Thanks!


Edited by Zoetrope, 11 April 2014 - 12:44.


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#2 Jon83

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 12:40

I went for:

 

HAM

ALO

RAI



#3 Cyanide

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 12:41

HAM
RAI
ALO



#4 1Devil1

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 12:43

I guess some of the users didn't get the instructions right, how can Hamilton be number one (first question) with 5 votes, but all other drives have, 1 or no vote, makes no sense when you have to pick 6 for every question. In total this must be 5x6 - 30 votes



#5 Zoetrope

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 12:46

I guess some of the users didn't get the instructions right, how can Hamilton be number one (first question) with 5 votes, but all other drives have, 1 or no vote, makes no sense when you have to pick 6 for every question. In total this must be 5x6 - 30 votes

Thanks for intervention. I changed the poll questions. They were indeed misleading and not everyone reads the OP first.



#6 1Devil1

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 12:52

Thanks for intervention. I changed the poll questions. They were indeed misleading and not everyone reads the OP first.

 

Nevertheless I think a good way to bounce off fan boy voting (a litte bit), to let people think about the best qualifier (without order), if I am a Vettel fan for example, I can vote for my driver and Rosberg/Hamilton without harming his own 'chances'. I would have gone for four votes, had a hard time to think about six drivers..



#7 Seanspeed

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 12:57

Glad to see Button getting the credit he deserves for his overtaking. I've always felt he was a bit underrated in this area(or maybe just not talked about much).

#8 Jimisgod

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 13:36

As of 2014 I think we can say the fastest drivers are:

 

The champions who retain their full speed:

 

Hamilton

Vettel

Alonso

 

The 'newer' drivers who can match that raw pace:

 

Rosberg

Ricciardo

Hulkenberg

 

The champions who rely on cunning and strategy to match that speed on occassion:

 

Raikkonen

Button


Edited by Jimisgod, 11 April 2014 - 13:40.


#9 Andrew Hope

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 13:50

Assuming a perfect day.

 

One qualifying lap:

  1. Hamilton
  2. Vettel
  3. Alonso
  4. Hulkenberg
  5. Rosberg
  6. Maldonado

Race pace:

  1. Vettel
  2. Rosberg
  3. Hamilton
  4. Alonso
  5. Hulkenberg
  6. Grosjean

Overtaking:

  1. Hamilton
  2. Button
  3. Rosberg
  4. Raikkonen
  5. Alonso
  6. Ricciardo

To put together a championship season:

  1. Alonso
  2. Vettel
  3. Rosberg
  4. Button
  5. Hamilton
  6. Hulkenberg.


#10 slmk

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 14:03

Race Pace / Championship Season :drunk:

 

Race Pace: When Rosberg has been outpaced at the first two GPs (he was faster in the first stint, but Lewis did very well to stretch the middle stint as much, and as such would have won the race without SC)

 

Championship Season:

In 2 GPs, Lewis leads 2-0, 50 to 36, and Lewis outscored and outraced Rosberg in 2013 despite being all-new to the team.

 

You did not give that post much thought, mate.


Edited by slmk, 11 April 2014 - 14:05.


#11 1Devil1

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 14:05

Race Pace / Championship Season :drunk:

 

What's wrong about it, let my guess  :rolleyes: - different opinions, you know. You have the Rosberg vs. Hamilton thread to discuss that matters. It's a voting - not a comparison thread of it's own rights..


Edited by 1Devil1, 11 April 2014 - 14:09.


#12 Retrofly

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 14:07

6 seems too many options, I ended up picking the same 6 for all questions



#13 slmk

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 14:08

Not opinion, facts. My posts are fact-based for the most part, mate.



#14 1Devil1

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 14:14

Not opinion, facts. My posts are fact-based for the most part, mate.

 

There are not facts, mate, this is F1, Nico matched Lewis last year, if someone has the opinion to believe he has the better race pace or better chances in a progressing championship seasons, let it be, because this thread is not to discuss this matters, or challenge the voting from others. It's not my opinion, but far from trolling or being complete out of order, no need to defend you driver here.


Edited by 1Devil1, 11 April 2014 - 14:14.


#15 apoka

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 14:22

Usually, the results of those polls are a combination of the size of the fanbase of a driver, which accounts for roughly 50%, the performance in the last race, which accounts for roughly 25%, and the performance in all previous races during the whole career of a driver, which accounts for the remaining 25%.  :p


Edited by apoka, 11 April 2014 - 14:23.


#16 slmk

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 14:24

There are not facts, mate, this is F1, Nico matched Lewis last year, if someone has the opinion to believe he has the better race pace or better chances in a progressing championship seasons, let it be, because this thread is not to discuss this matters, or challenge the voting from others. It's not my opinion, but far from trolling or being complete out of order, no need to defend you driver here.

 

A match in my book is when things are equal or so close to call.

 

In this case, Lewis outqualified Rosberg, was level on races (where they both finished) and outscored Rosberg; if that's not an overall Lewis win (although slight, though you can argue that, as Lewis was not at ease in the car, it actually is greater than it appears), then I don't know what "win" represent or means.

 

A match would have been Lewis outqualifying, being outraced and level on points; but here Lewis won two of the categories and tied the 3rd one. 

 

And that's not counting 2014, where Lewis wins the H2H 2-1 in qualifying and 2-0 in the race, and +14 points in points in races where they both finished.

 

Bottom line is: The empirical evidence does not allow one to conclude that Nico surpasses Lewis in any of the above categories. Tying, maybe. Beating, no.


Edited by slmk, 11 April 2014 - 14:26.


#17 sennafan24

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 14:45

The only 3 drivers I voted for in all 3 areas were

 

Lewis

Alonso

Seb

 

Which happen to be my top 3 drivers on the grid in general.

 

Rosberg is just about bubbling under, the only area he did not get a vote from myself, was overtaking.

 

Kimi I voted for twice in terms of race and overtaking. Button got a mention for race pace. Hulk I also voted for in a few areas, even though he is slightly unproved. D.R got a vote for qualifying, but I could regret that if Seb starts to out-perform him.

 

Whatever is said about Alonso, he was the only the driver I was very comfortable in voting for in all 3 areas. 



#18 Andrew Hope

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 14:52

Race Pace / Championship Season :drunk:

 

Race Pace: When Rosberg has been outpaced at the first two GPs (he was faster in the first stint, but Lewis did very well to stretch the middle stint as much, and as such would have won the race without SC)

 

Championship Season:

In 2 GPs, Lewis leads 2-0, 50 to 36, and Lewis outscored and outraced Rosberg in 2013 despite being all-new to the team.

 

You did not give that post much thought, mate.

 

Yeah those things aren't the same. Race pace is the ability to keep up a general, consistent or consistently-improving speed to maximize your points takeaway from a single event. Putting together a championship season is orchestrating a bid for glory at the end of the year with full willingness to sacrifice the smaller glory of GP wins. A driver with great race pace will be trying to nick that last position on the final lap come hell or high water. A driver with his eye on the bigger prize will take what he can get, but he knows that taking 6 points for finishing 7th is better than no points by risking a crash with the guy in 6th on the last lap. He knows that there are times when it's better to be slow and steady and that discretion is the better part of valor. Neither strategy is better than the other 100% of the time and it's all conducive to whatever the tires, engines, weather, electronics, and other drivers happen to be doing that weekend.

 

Neither of those two facets are anywhere near as exciting single lap pace and overtaking ability, but if your goal is to be successful first and exciting second, they're the right way to go. We've had year after year after year of questioning Vettel's ablity to overtake, solely because the package of him and his car were so good he didn't have to show us if he was good at overtaking, which is a fundamental skill all F1 drivers must be at least reasonably good at. That's ridiculous, and it speaks to the admirable level of his other skills that they could overcome a deficiency that essential to a driver's skill set. It's like wondering whether an English professor knows what a compound word is because the things he's written are so amazing he might not need to know at all.

 

The modern era of F1 flatters Hamilton's driving style. Blown engines and serious accidents are largely a thing of the past, things that would've likely foiled Hamilton's championship bids had this been 1975 or 1982 or 1993. Hamilton's the better driver in every exciting aspect of racing and Rosberg's the better driver in the boring aspects, but for most of F1's history, the dull parts like making sure the car gets home in one piece is what won championships. It's not the case anymore. We're in an era where drivers can trust the cars won't fall apart when they try to hit Mach 1. An era where they know that outside of Monaco they aren't going to be killed if they misjudge the apex. An era where braking too late doesn't mean you're going into the trees, the lake, the houses, the stands, the marshals, the car park, the fields, the armco, the tire barriers, the gravel traps, or anything. It just means you lose a second or two dipping your wheels onto the Walmart parking lot outside of every corner and you can still go on to score 25 points after making a mistake that would've cost you dearly for the previous 90% of the history of our sport. With Rosberg and Hamilton there's a Sheckter/Villeneuve thing going on, but in an era where nothing is any better for Scheckter and a dozen things are better for Villeneuve.

 

Hamilton will go 1:20.8 nine laps in a row and then 1:23.6. Rosberg will go 1:21 flat 10 laps in a row. Neither is better than the other at every race in every country in every condition.



#19 sennafan24

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 14:58

 

Hamilton will go 1:20.8 nine laps in a row and then 1:23.6. Rosberg will go 1:21 flat 10 laps in a row. Neither is better than the other at every race in every country in every condition.

I think you overlook Lewis's skillset with all due respect

 

I would like you consider his second stint in Bahrain last weekend, he managed his tyres in a very careful and considerate way, he slowly opened a modest gap between him and Nico, which should have been modest enough to see him through the race distance. It was  carefully managed and measured performance, it was not one of a pure bomber artist.

 

The same goes for Sepang. Lewis carefully managed his gap, Martin Brundle says it was a "Alain Prost" type performance.

 

Lewis is not just a bomber artist in 2014, he thinks very carefully about what he is doing.


Edited by sennafan24, 11 April 2014 - 15:08.


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#20 Nemo1965

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 15:07

I have to say I can't pick a top 6 in qualifying. I just think I can't judge that, because qualifying has so much to do with the car.

 

Race-craft is 'easier', because you can see where someone started, how pace holds up during the whole race, how someone can deal with traffic, and soforth. Or the other way round: why was Jarno Trulli considered such an excellent qualifier? Because he often outqualified his teammates but in the race drove the same pace as them (and hence held up the infamous Trulli-trains).

 

My top 6 in both categories:

 

Vettel/Hamilton

(slight pause. Verrrry slight pause)

Rosberg/Button/Ricciardo/Alonso/



#21 Mc_Silver

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 15:07

One qualifying lap:

  1. Hamilton
  2. Vettel
  3. Ricciardo
  4. Maldonado
  5. Rosberg
  6. Magnussen

Race pace:

  1. Vettel
  2. Alonso
  3. Hamilton
  4. Rosberg
  5. Hulkenberg
  6. Raikkonen

Overtaking:

  1. Hamilton
  2. Vettel
  3. Alonso
  4. Raikkonen
  5. Button
  6. Ricciardo


#22 darkkis

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 15:12

 

Assuming a perfect day.

 

One qualifying lap:

  1. Hamilton
  2. Vettel
  3. Alonso
  4. Hulkenberg
  5. Rosberg
  6. Maldonado

Race pace:

  1. Vettel
  2. Rosberg
  3. Hamilton
  4. Alonso
  5. Hulkenberg
  6. Grosjean

Overtaking:

  1. Hamilton
  2. Button
  3. Rosberg
  4. Raikkonen
  5. Alonso
  6. Ricciardo

To put together a championship season:

  1. Alonso
  2. Vettel
  3. Rosberg
  4. Button
  5. Hamilton
  6. Hulkenberg.

 

Ahahha I hope you're kidding. :rotfl: Sorry. But even Maldonado before Räikkönen, please...



#23 Lone

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 15:15

Ahahha I hope you're kidding. :rotfl: Sorry. But even Maldonado before Räikkönen, please...


... and Grosjean better race pace!

#24 kimster89

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 15:19

This kind of threads are allways a joke..:)

#25 Andrew Hope

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 15:25

Yeah it's not 2003. Raikkonen is an old man who is fine when the car's perfect and nowhere when the car isn't, who doesn't find having made more than the GDP of Belgium racing cars for a living sufficient motivation to try hard enough.

 

Grosjean does have better race pace. It's probably because he tries every race.



#26 slmk

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 15:25

Yeah those things aren't the same. Race pace is the ability to keep up a general, consistent or consistently-improving speed to maximize your points takeaway from a single event. Putting together a championship season is orchestrating a bid for glory at the end of the year with full willingness to sacrifice the smaller glory of GP wins. A driver with great race pace will be trying to nick that last position on the final lap come hell or high water. A driver with his eye on the bigger prize will take what he can get, but he knows that taking 6 points for finishing 7th is better than no points by risking a crash with the guy in 6th on the last lap. He knows that there are times when it's better to be slow and steady and that discretion is the better part of valor. Neither strategy is better than the other 100% of the time and it's all conducive to whatever the tires, engines, weather, electronics, and other drivers happen to be doing that weekend.

 

Neither of those two facets are anywhere near as exciting single lap pace and overtaking ability, but if your goal is to be successful first and exciting second, they're the right way to go. We've had year after year after year of questioning Vettel's ablity to overtake, solely because the package of him and his car were so good he didn't have to show us if he was good at overtaking, which is a fundamental skill all F1 drivers must be at least reasonably good at. That's ridiculous, and it speaks to the admirable level of his other skills that they could overcome a deficiency that essential to a driver's skill set. It's like wondering whether an English professor knows what a compound word is because the things he's written are so amazing he might not need to know at all.

 

The modern era of F1 flatters Hamilton's driving style. Blown engines and serious accidents are largely a thing of the past, things that would've likely foiled Hamilton's championship bids had this been 1975 or 1982 or 1993. Hamilton's the better driver in every exciting aspect of racing and Rosberg's the better driver in the boring aspects, but for most of F1's history, the dull parts like making sure the car gets home in one piece is what won championships. It's not the case anymore. We're in an era where drivers can trust the cars won't fall apart when they try to hit Mach 1. An era where they know that outside of Monaco they aren't going to be killed if they misjudge the apex. An era where braking too late doesn't mean you're going into the trees, the lake, the houses, the stands, the marshals, the car park, the fields, the armco, the tire barriers, the gravel traps, or anything. It just means you lose a second or two dipping your wheels onto the Walmart parking lot outside of every corner and you can still go on to score 25 points after making a mistake that would've cost you dearly for the previous 90% of the history of our sport. With Rosberg and Hamilton there's a Sheckter/Villeneuve thing going on, but in an era where nothing is any better for Scheckter and a dozen things are better for Villeneuve.

 

Hamilton will go 1:20.8 nine laps in a row and then 1:23.6. Rosberg will go 1:21 flat 10 laps in a row. Neither is better than the other at every race in every country in every condition.

 

Lewis's middle stint on softs in BAH annihilates your argument. Without SC, this stint would have likely given him the win. He made his softs work for 20 laps (clearly longer than the team expected) without massive dropoff; I can also pull stints from Malaysia if you want; same story there; he Prost'd that race so hard that the team had to prepare a bible of analysis for Nico to help him bridge the gap.

 

 

21 1:39.765

22 1:39.666

23 1:40.357

24 1:39.743

25 1:39.809

26 1:40.042

27 1:40.045

28 1:40.098

29 1:40.250

30 1:40.141

31 1:40.176

32 1:39.793

33 1:40.250

34 1:39.930

35 1:39.915

36 1:40.267

37 1:40.185

38 1:40.341

39 1:40.120

40 1:40.796


Edited by slmk, 11 April 2014 - 15:27.


#27 P123

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 15:31

Hold on... 75 people have voted but some of them are not putting Vettel or Hamilton (or both) in their top 6 qualifiers? 

 

I struggled a bit on naming 6 top overtakers- could think of 5- Alonso/ Vettel/ Hamilton/ Button/ Raikkonen



#28 KavB

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 15:32


Yeah it's not 2003. Raikkonen is an old man who is fine when the car's perfect and nowhere when the car isn't, who doesn't find having made more than the GDP of Belgium racing cars for a living sufficient motivation to try hard enough.

 

Grosjean does have better race pace. It's probably because he tries every race.

The no motivation thing is becoming boring. Why do all these drivers have these stupid myths associated with them?

Hamilton - Destroys his tyres

Raikkonen - No motivation

Alonso - The amazing car developer (well back in 2009 this was a myth)

Vettel - Can't overtake (back in 2011)

 

The guy got 3rd in 2012 and had a good chance of retaining 3rd last year. You don't get anywhere near that if you don't try every race and have poor race pace. 



#29 AVA1

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 15:34

Hold on... 75 people have voted but some of them are not putting Vettel or Hamilton (or both) in their top 6 qualifiers?

I struggled a bit on naming 6 top overtakers- could think of 5- Alonso/ Vettel/ Hamilton/ Button/ Raikkonen


Pretty crazy that Hamilton doesn't have maximum votes in that.

#30 Lone

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 17:06

Yeah it's not 2003. Raikkonen is an old man who is fine when the car's perfect and nowhere when the car isn't, who doesn't find having made more than the GDP of Belgium racing cars for a living sufficient motivation to try hard enough.
 
Grosjean does have better race pace. It's probably because he tries every race.


Everyone is entitled to an opinion, that's the good thing about opinions they don't have to be right, they don't even have to make sense. I respect that you have an opinion, it's better than not having an opinion at all.

#31 Disgrace

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 17:15

This vote is nothing but a snapshot in a bigger picture. A lot of drivers have developed their skills, and/or had have their skills honed by changes in the rules. Massa, Raikkonen and Button all used to be top qualifiers under previous rules, but this is now no longer the case. The same went for Webber. Do they warrant a vote on their past performances?



#32 Lone

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 17:26

This vote is nothing but a snapshot in a bigger picture. A lot of drivers have developed their skills, and/or had have their skills honed by changes in the rules. Massa, Raikkonen and Button all used to be top qualifiers under previous rules, but this is now no longer the case. The same went for Webber. Do they warrant a vote on their past performances?


I agree that things changes quickly in F1 but come back after the summer brake and suddenly some of the qualifying experts might not be so great anymore and some of the has beens might be. I guess we will say that someone else will not be so great anymore and some others have found their mojo again. But when was Button considered a great qualifier?

#33 bub

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 17:30

Qualifying - Hamilton, Vettel, Rosberg, Ricciardo, Alonso, Maldonado (close with Grosjean and Hulk).

 

Race pace - Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton, Rosberg, Raikkonen, Hulkenberg (Maybe should have been Button instead).

 

Overtaking - Alonso, Hamilton, Raikkonen, Button, Vettel, Ricciardo (close with Hulk).



#34 sennafan24

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 17:43

A few points of contention

 

- Pastor lost the qualifying battle to Bottas last year, whom is currently losing 2-1 to Massa in qualifying. I am think Pastor's qualifying skills are a tad overrated. His race pace on the other hand is underrated, as he was ahead 9-5 in a two car finish over Bottas. The Lotus car is such a shambles we might not find out where Pastor compares to Romain sadly.

 

- How much is Alonso's weak qualifying down to the car? It is not like Kimi or Massa have been whacking in pole positions in the same machinery. Alonso is currently beating Kimi 2-1 in qualifying, and beat Massa in qualifying by a hefty margin in their time as teammates.

 

- Vettel's overtaking skills have been proven the past few years. He carved through the field like a knife through butter at Abu Dhabi 2012, whilst his teammate in the same machinery had a shambles of a performance. 



#35 Zoetrope

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 18:24

 

- Vettel's overtaking skills have been proven the past few years. He carved through the field like a knife through butter at Abu Dhabi 2012, whilst his teammate in the same machinery had a shambles of a performance. 

That's actually a bad example. He was starting from pit lane aided with a racy setup. And only formidable opponents he had overtaken were Grosjean (first attempt  on RoGro ended in overtaking off track), Schumacher and Button. The rest were backmarkers and midfield.

To be honest, looking at what he has achieved so far, I sort of believe he is a good overtaker, because you can't not be one if you have that much talent. But I can't really see much evidence. Starting from pole every second race contributed largely to this.



#36 sennafan24

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 18:42

That's actually a bad example. He was starting from pit lane aided with a racy setup. And only formidable opponents he had overtaken were Grosjean (first attempt  on RoGro ended in overtaking off track), Schumacher and Button. The rest were backmarkers and midfield.

I think anytime a driver starts from the pit lane, and ends up on the podium, it shows they have some overtaking skills. Was Senna's masterful drive after he stalled on the grid at Japan 88 not worthy due to the competition he past? 

 

There was an overtake than Vettel did at the start of the 2013 season over Alonso, it occurred at the start of the race and it was masterful. I wish I could recall which GP it happened in. 



#37 Kingshark

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 18:45

Vet - Alo - Alo

 



#38 ollebompa

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 18:49

I think anytime a driver starts from the pit lane, and ends up on the podium, it shows they have some overtaking skills. Was Senna's masterful drive after he stalled on the grid at Japan 88 not worthy due to the competition he past? 

 

There was an overtake than Vettel did at the start of the 2013 season over Alonso, it occurred at the start of the race and it was masterful. I wish I could recall which GP it happened in. 

Bahrain, Turn 5.

 


Edited by ollebompa, 11 April 2014 - 19:01.


#39 Blanchimont2002

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 18:53

Surprised with some of these results, perhaps some have short memories and only base their votes on the last few races. I respect others' opinions obviously, but I'm surprised Hulkenberg is so high in the 'overtaking' category. Not that he isn't good, but surely Button is a much more classy overtaker?

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#40 Blanchimont2002

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 18:54

I wonder if Esteban Gutierrez voted for Maldonado in the overtaking category? That move Maldonado made on him in Bahrain was top notch! ;)

#41 noikeee

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 20:00

qualifying
1. Vettel
2. Hamilton
3. Alonso
4. Rosberg
5. Massa
6. Hulkenberg
 
race
1. Alonso
2. Vettel
3. Hamilton
4. Raikkonen
5. Hulkenberg
6. Rosberg
(tough to leave Button and Grosjean out)
 
overtaking
1. Hamilton
2. Raikkonen
3. Button
4. Hulkenberg
5. Alonso
6. Vettel
(actually don't think Vettel gets an automatic entry here but couldn't find an alternative)
 
This poll isn't going to do much but pick pretty much same 6 drivers with 1 or 2 exceptions every point IMO.


#42 noikeee

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 20:04

Surprised with some of these results, perhaps some have short memories and only base their votes on the last few races. I respect others' opinions obviously, but I'm surprised Hulkenberg is so high in the 'overtaking' category. Not that he isn't good, but surely Button is a much more classy overtaker?

 

I'll readily admit I've not been paying an awful lot of attention with a billion overtakes occuring these days with DRS and all, but I actually think Hulkenberg's right up there with Button in the very best overtakers/defenders/wheel-to-wheel fighters.



#43 Blanchimont2002

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 20:27

True. it's just, for me, jensons overtaking spring more readily to mind than the Hulk's. I'll pay more attention to Hulkenberg in the future, then :)

#44 Blanchimont2002

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 20:57

Phew glad its not just me!

#45 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 21:00

I think anytime a driver starts from the pit lane, and ends up on the podium, it shows they have some overtaking skills. Was Senna's masterful drive after he stalled on the grid at Japan 88 not worthy due to the competition he past? 

 

There was an overtake than Vettel did at the start of the 2013 season over Alonso, it occurred at the start of the race and it was masterful. I wish I could recall which GP it happened in. 

**caugh....safety car in Abu Dhabi 2012 +2 Marussia's + 2 HRT's + 2 Caterhams + 2 Toro Rosso's....**caugh



#46 Radion

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 21:06

True. it's just, for me, jensons overtaking spring more readily to mind than the Hulk's. I'll pay more attention to Hulkenberg in the future, then :)

Sorry, I accidentally deleted my previous post. ^-^

 

But I totally agree on that one.

When talking about overtaking I can't really think of any spectacular move from hunkelberg (maybe some of you guys can remind me?). He's been the one so far that should be known for being able to defend pretty well rather than overtaking.



#47 sennafan24

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 21:13

**caugh....safety car in Abu Dhabi 2012 +2 Marussia's + 2 HRT's + 2 Caterhams + 2 Toro Rosso's....**caugh

When the safety car came out, he was still behind the Toro Rosso's.

 

He still had a lot of work to do. It was not just backmarkers he passed. Only Alonso and Kimi finished ahead on that day, he passed a a good few fast cars, including a Lotus and a McLaren.

 

Remember that weekend the Lotus and McLaren were the best cars, other than maybe the RB



#48 apoka

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 21:13

Hold on... 75 people have voted but some of them are not putting Vettel or Hamilton (or both) in their top 6 qualifiers? 

 

Seems pretty strange to me as well. I struggle to name one faster driver let alone 5.



#49 Bartonz20let

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 21:20

Voted for Lewis for all 3, he's got the nicest dog after all

#50 ZZei

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 22:02

Yeah it's not 2003. Raikkonen is an old man who is fine when the car's perfect and nowhere when the car isn't, who doesn't find having made more than the GDP of Belgium racing cars for a living sufficient motivation to try hard enough.

 

Grosjean does have better race pace. It's probably because he tries every race.

Nowhere? I seem to recall he has been on alonsos tail pretty much every race.