Jump to content


Photo
* * - - - 4 votes

A response to Niki Lauda


  • Please log in to reply
99 replies to this topic

#1 EvilPhil II

EvilPhil II
  • Member

  • 1,871 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 12 April 2014 - 09:29

When I see Lauda and Co. pleading with the public to not complain about F1, it is frankly laughable.

 

As a sport they have been driving in the wrong direction for around 8 years, against the wishes of a vocal fan base and ironically moving in a direction not in the interest of their source of revenue. And now suddenly when they make a few major changes too far apparently we should all just sit back and pretend to enjoy it. 

 

Clearly thats not the way the world works and the sport had better act fast because if you look at how fast Group C and CART disappeared, it isn't inconceivable that F1 might not exist within 2 years. 

 

I think the new engine regulations and points system in F1 will be very relevant to the road car industry, in that they are about to learn that if the public don't like the product, then they don't buy, and you need to rethink your ingredients. 

 

No business model in todays world can ignore their core customers to the extent that F1 has done since 2006.

 

We have had rule changes forced upon our sport that are fundamentally opposed to the sports pure core ethos, of a man and machine driving to the limit, including:

  • Grooved Tyres
  • Qualifying shoot outs
  • Qualifying with race fuel
  • Qualifying with race tyres (i.e. the ones you start the race with)
  • No changes to car set between qualifying and race 
  • Rev limits 
  • Double points 
  • Ridiculous penalties awarded for "racing incidents" 
  • DRS (the worst idea I have seen implemented in the past 20 years)
  • KERS Boost
  • Fuel Efficiency Formula
  • Endurance engines and parts (i.e. to last many races ELSE changes result in influenced race results via penalty) 
  • Smaller and smaller engines 
  • Standard configurations of engines
  • 1 Tyre for whole race (2005)
  • No testing for rookies 
  • Pirelli plasticine tyres 
  • Huge Tarmac run off areas 

So my point is that the complaints are not just about this years rules as there has been a fundamental movement in the sport for 8 years and I think this years regulations which affect the emotional attachment and excitement of the sport (i.e. volume of noise and sense of power) is possibly the final straws for a lot of people who have been dedicated followers of the sport for decades. 

 

A final thought - has there been in history any examples of sports changing regulations, so often and so widely, and has a sport so and then retracted the changes before it has died?


Edited by EvilPhil II, 12 April 2014 - 10:05.


Advertisement

#2 Tsarwash

Tsarwash
  • Member

  • 13,725 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 12 April 2014 - 09:31

Can we please have a sub forum for all these damn threads complaining about the sport and it's current direction. It's getting that I don't really bother visiting RC that much any more.

#3 darkkis

darkkis
  • Member

  • 898 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 12 April 2014 - 09:35

Yeah, it's ridiculous. All the bad decisions, then we have one good race and everyone in Mercedes team are like: "Look how great Formula 1 is now, we had such a good race. This should silence all the critics blabla." :o



#4 wj_gibson

wj_gibson
  • Member

  • 3,920 posts
  • Joined: January 05

Posted 12 April 2014 - 09:36

He wasn't pleading with *the public* not to complain.

He was suggesting specifically that the complaints made by Ecclestone and di Montezemelo at the weekend were attached to a specific agenda that has chaff all to do with those two wishing to air the views of "the public" and everything to do with advancing their own personal interests.

And he is absolutely correct to make that observation.

#5 Retrofly

Retrofly
  • Member

  • 4,608 posts
  • Joined: July 13

Posted 12 April 2014 - 09:38

F1 has and will always change, some will complian, some will love and embrace them.

I wouldn't worry about it, nothing will change and a forum post on the internet isn't going to change much either.

All you can do is sit back and enjoy the racing. If you don't like it watch another sport.

I didn't watch much F1 during the Shumacher years, I only started watching again when Hamilton came on the scene. After enduring 4 years of RBR and Vettle dominance the rules have changed and completly changed the face of the sport and I couldn't be happier.

True we still have a dominant team, but at least they are battling it out, the fact that the driver I support has a WDC car I'm overjoyed.

 

What I'm saying is beauty is in the eye of the beholder, one mans trash is another mans treasure.



#6 wj_gibson

wj_gibson
  • Member

  • 3,920 posts
  • Joined: January 05

Posted 12 April 2014 - 09:40

Also - from your original post Phil, what exactly are you advocating? That the rules be re-set to those that applied in 1990 or something? Your list of complaints is basically everything that has been implemented in F1 for about 20 years.

F1 has always had periodic technical "re-sets". It simply goes with the terrain of a sport that is vastly more technology-dependent than any other. Had the internet existed in 1961 I have little doubt that complaints about the 1.5l engines would have been voiced in exactly the same way.

#7 SpartanChas

SpartanChas
  • Member

  • 910 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 12 April 2014 - 09:49

He's absolutely right in most of what he says. Bernie and Luca should not publicly slate the new formula.

Had it stayed the same, Vettel would still be winning. Maybe ferrari should have done what mercedes did and not made a complete hash of building a car, yet again, and then complain that the sport is all wrong.

#8 Fourjays

Fourjays
  • Member

  • 242 posts
  • Joined: September 11

Posted 12 April 2014 - 09:50

Soooo... How exactly do you propose removing all those changes AND making the sport financially viable AND safe for drivers?

 

It's easy to complain. Far harder to be constructive.



#9 EvilPhil II

EvilPhil II
  • Member

  • 1,871 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 12 April 2014 - 10:02

 

All you can do is sit back and enjoy the racing. If you don't like it watch another sport.

 

Sadly, turning away from the sport is what I've done - made easier by the requirement to have SKY in order to watch. So my SKY is cancelled and I believe the last race was the final one I'll see before it switches off.  

 

However, that does not lessen the frustration that I feel when the sport I once loved is destroyed in such a blind manner. 

 

And my lessening interest in the sport has nothing to do with a team dominating or not... that is an aspect of any sport be it football, tennis, basketball etc. During some periods of time in any sport, people and/or teams will have been better than everyone else.

 

I still enjoy watching that sport if the spectacle remains. So for example if you look back at the 2004 F1 season, it was a season totally dominated Ferrari who behaved very unsportingly. But every Saturday before a race there was a chance that a brave young charger named Montoya might at least spoil the party a little by placing his lesser car on pole by way of a very stimulating lap that looked and sounded full of energy and commitment.

 

I question if that same spectacle is possible in todays F1 with todays lethargic cars.


Edited by EvilPhil II, 12 April 2014 - 10:07.


#10 HoldenRT

HoldenRT
  • Member

  • 6,773 posts
  • Joined: May 05

Posted 12 April 2014 - 10:05

I don't like anything or anyone that tries to squash freedom of expression.  Sometimes it goes overboard but better than being silenced.  If Vettel doesn't like the sound of the engines and it's his true feelings, he should be able to say whatever he likes.  We all have our preferences and we aren't always going to agree.  But we should at least be allowed to say it.

 

There will always be people praising something and trying to find the positives and there will always be people finding negatives.  It usually balances out.  When people like Button say "stop whinging or leave the sport" or when Lauda or whoever else makes comments.. if everyone did that, the balance would be out of whack.  If everyone complains it's clear something is wrong, if no one complains (despite the freedom to do so) it means not much is wrong.

 

These are universal principles that apply to life in general but very applicable to F1 right now and the direction it's taken/taking.



#11 SealTheDiffuser

SealTheDiffuser
  • Member

  • 2,416 posts
  • Joined: June 12

Posted 12 April 2014 - 10:06

sorry, this thread is useless. Last 8 years we had great championships and great cars and developments.

Apparently you like the pedal to the metal attitude and giant engines and oldschool tech, so go elsewhere. I can't stand all this whining, we are in for a very special season and imagine 2015 when the engine get unlocked a little and Honda joins.  

We will all cry when Bernie, Red Bull and  Ferrari $ will open GP1 to get out of the FIA reglementation, and this will be all customer cars racing then and Neanderthal tech, but maybe you will like it. http://translate.goo...t-text=&act=url


Edited by SealTheDiffuser, 12 April 2014 - 10:07.


#12 undersquare

undersquare
  • Member

  • 18,929 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 12 April 2014 - 10:09

The sport is the best it's every been afaic.  Less corrupt than under Balestre/Mosley, the best-ever coverage, lots of technical interest, three or four fantastic drivers all at once, and lots of close racing and passing.

 

Yes it could be better, but things used to be worse.



#13 EvilPhil II

EvilPhil II
  • Member

  • 1,871 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 12 April 2014 - 10:16

sorry, this thread is useless. Last 8 years we had great championships and great cars and developments.

Apparently you like the pedal to the metal attitude and giant engines and oldschool tech, so go elsewhere. I can't stand all this whining, we are in for a very special season and imagine 2015 when the engine get unlocked a little and Honda joins.  

We will all cry when Bernie, Red Bull and  Ferrari $ will open GP1 to get out of the FIA reglementation, and this will be all customer cars racing then and Neanderthal tech, but maybe you will like it. http://translate.goo...t-text=&act=url

 

 

I hadn't seen that - but Id be a firm supporter of that movement - yes. 

 

FIA has killed Group C, WRC Rallying, WTCC... you name it.

 

They are clearly not capable of seeing the forest for the trees when implementing change.  Perhaps their commitments to road safety and environmental issues are a conflict of interest to the spectacle of the sport. 

 

Looking forward to GP1 then! 



#14 Kobasmashi

Kobasmashi
  • Member

  • 734 posts
  • Joined: December 12

Posted 12 April 2014 - 10:22



I still enjoy watching that sport if the spectacle remains. So for example if you look back at the 2004 F1 season, it was a season totally dominated Ferrari who behaved very unsportingly. But every Saturday before a race there was a chance that a brave young charger named Montoya might at least spoil the party a little by placing his lesser car on pole by way of a very stimulating lap that looked and sounded full of energy and commitment.

I question if that same spectacle is possible in todays F1 with todays lethargic cars.


Didn't the Ferraris only get out-qualified because they were starting with heavier fuel loads, if my memory serves me? Rose-tinted specs and whatnot...

#15 sabjit

sabjit
  • Member

  • 2,994 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 12 April 2014 - 10:25

Oh goodie. Another whinging thread.

 

Please take this tedious, monotonous and frankly boring drivel elsewhere.



#16 EvilPhil II

EvilPhil II
  • Member

  • 1,871 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 12 April 2014 - 10:31

Didn't the Ferraris only get out-qualified because they were starting with heavier fuel loads, if my memory serves me? Rose-tinted specs and whatnot...

 

 

Sorry... typo!. I had meant 2002. 



#17 Suntrek

Suntrek
  • Member

  • 1,796 posts
  • Joined: August 07

Posted 12 April 2014 - 10:32

Funny though, that not one complainer - not Montezemolo, not Lauda and certainly not Bernie (since it was his idea) mention the one thing that really dumbed down F1 for me, and the one thing almost ALL F1-fans are against - the double points.

 

The noise I can live with, though I'm no fan. We'll get used to it, and it has it's advantages - now we can hear what the drivers actually say over the radio and we can hear tyres screaming when leaving the pits, for example.

 

Fuel limitations - I think it has worked rather well so far. And we've always had fuel-saving already. I see no difference yet.

 

But the double points puts F1 into a clown category fully comparable with other "fixed-for-audience" sports for me. And no, I don't care if Mercedes have the titles wrapped up by Monza (they probably have - double points or not)  The double points idea goes against all what constitutes "a sport"


Edited by Suntrek, 12 April 2014 - 10:37.


#18 Zoetrope

Zoetrope
  • Member

  • 1,408 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 12 April 2014 - 10:32

 

 

However, that does not lessen the frustration that I feel when the sport I once loved is destroyed in such a blind manner. 

There will always be fans who preferred it the way it used to be. But Formula One must seek for new fanbase every single year. I don't feel competent enough to judge if F1 without all these new regulations would be more attractive to new viewers, but I believe the investors that spend millions know what they are doing, supported by in-depth research. Many people will surely stop watching as the new format doesn't fit them, but many new people will come. As much as the current state of F1 saddens you, F1 managment board doesn't care about you.

There is plenty of other racing series than you can find attractive and suit your requirements (motorsports core ethos), but I am afraid you must attend them live to spactate. Because multi-camers broadcast on HDTV, real-time report from the paddock, replay analysis, interviews with drivers, live timing, user interface for relevant race information, radio feed transmition selection, onboard camers etc. costs millions and to pay the bills you need... fanbase ready to pay  :smoking:



#19 EvilPhil II

EvilPhil II
  • Member

  • 1,871 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 12 April 2014 - 10:35

Oh goodie. Another whinging thread.

 

Please take this tedious, monotonous and frankly boring drivel elsewhere.

 

Its a motorsport forum... I'm discussing motorsport. So how about taking your head out your ass and start being less ignorant and derogatory? 



Advertisement

#20 Cyanide

Cyanide
  • Member

  • 5,299 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 12 April 2014 - 10:43

I like the current format except for the V6 sounds which I'm sure they'll improve. 

 

But I don't agree with Niki Lauda's attitude. He's always been a straight forward offensive asshole. We had one good race so far and two dead boring ones. One grand prix won't change opinions after the shock impact of the V6s and the lack of action we witnessed in Melbourne and Sepang. 

 

I say give it more time, there's potential for some great racing this year between Nico and Lewis and between the rest of the teams. 



#21 Nemo1965

Nemo1965
  • Member

  • 7,842 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 12 April 2014 - 10:43

If I read the OP right, he states that Lauda says the public has no right to complain, or that he wants to squash the right of opinion. But he does nothing of the sorts. He states that Bernie Ecclestone and Luca di Montezemlo - two figures who, remind yourselves, were once his boss, and both of whom were pivotal for his own career - behave like elephants walking on a shaky bridge. He states that they both have a responsability regarding the image and reputation of F1... and he is right. Why can't Luca or Bernie say: 'Okay, the sound, or this or that, I am hot happy about it, we should try to find a way to...'

Di M. is the boss of Ferrari. A team that is seen as pivotal for the image of F1. Bernie, allegedly, apparently, is trying to become the financial boss of F1 again. Don't we all agree that persons in such a position have a different responsability than, say, Nemo1965, regular poster at the autosport.com racing comments forum?

 

What disappoints me in Luca di M. - who's career I have followed closely because I followed Lauda's career closely - the last six years has engaged more and in a kind of trench warfare, in which he, by carefully planned press-releases and interviews, tries to downplay's Ferrari failure to win the WC by stating that we are not witnessing 'real F1' at the moment. I am sorry, but it is very hard not to see this as his agenda. Perhaps he is 'forced' by Italian media to do so, but he could also make a stand. He could also say: 'Okay, Mercedes have won this winters race. They are the best right now. And now we are going to fight like hell to beat them at their own game.'

 

So I am 100 percent behind Niki Lauda.



#22 FenderJaguar

FenderJaguar
  • Member

  • 1,567 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 12 April 2014 - 10:45

the thing that is irritating is that there are some easy things that they can do and rarely do to get better races. like a little more fuel. the fans deserve more racing and that is what we should see but most of the time you get the feeling that the FIA throw things at the teams that works against racing. I don't think FIA understand that F1 isn't absolute and automatically a success and that they in fact can ruin it. And of course people who love F1 should be allowed to criticize it.


Edited by FenderJaguar, 12 April 2014 - 10:45.


#23 travbrad

travbrad
  • Member

  • 1,058 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 12 April 2014 - 10:47

I still enjoy watching that sport if the spectacle remains. So for example if you look back at the 2004 F1 season, it was a season totally dominated Ferrari who behaved very unsportingly. But every Saturday before a race there was a chance that a brave young charger named Montoya might at least spoil the party a little by placing his lesser car on pole by way of a very stimulating lap that looked and sounded full of energy and commitment.

 

I question if that same spectacle is possible in todays F1 with todays lethargic cars.

 

I never thought I'd see someone reminiscing about how great the 2004 season was compared to current F1.   :drunk:   F1 in its current form certainly has some problems, but there is no way in hell I would trade it for 2004's problems.

 

It seems like the drivers can push harder this year than they did last year, so it seems strange that the 2014 regulations are the final straw for you.  The tyres look a lot more sturdy in general this year, allowing drivers to push more during the race.  They also get extra tyres for qualifying, so we get to see more 100% qualifying laps where the drivers and cars are at their max.  Yes they are running engines at lower than their maximum power for fuel and reliability reasons, but that has been part of F1 for most of the sport's history.  They just have an exact fuel tank size dictated to the teams now.

 

In Melbourne the 2014 cars were faster down a straight than the 2013 cars were, and in Bahrain the Mercedes' fastest laps matched the fastest lap from last year's race (less than 0.1sec difference) so I'm just not seeing this huge lack of power or speed, or drivers not being allowed to push.


Edited by travbrad, 12 April 2014 - 10:47.


#24 JHSingo

JHSingo
  • Member

  • 8,939 posts
  • Joined: June 13

Posted 12 April 2014 - 11:50

if you no longer like it, don't watch. It really isn't too difficult.

 

It is perfectly acceptable if you have lost interest in F1. But quite what you want people who do still like it to say to you, I'm not quite sure. I just find it incredible that there are so many people on this forum who waste their own time, complaining and moaning about this and that. It's rather tiring and it is a shame the forum has gone like this.

 

Frankly, Niki Lauda talked a lot of sense.



#25 flyboy

flyboy
  • Member

  • 387 posts
  • Joined: June 01

Posted 12 April 2014 - 11:56

I completely agree with EvilPhil.     I have been watching F-1 since 1960 and, in my opinion, the current F-1 is the most boring formula in the past 50 years.... and it has been getting worse and worse since they started fooling with the engine formulas... banning 12 cylinders because of fear of Toyota, then banning V10s, then banning V8s, what is next?     The FIA has their collective heads up their ass.   F-1 should not be a promotional series for "Green" initiatives or a development series for car companies looking to sell shitbox economy cars.     IT IS A RACING SERIES!    If the FIA and the car companies continue on the path they have been following for the past 20 years they will destroy F-1.... no one will be interested in watching.    As a long time F-1 follower I am embarassed to say it, but Nascar now has a much more exciting product!   

Yes, F-1 is expensive... but this is due in large part to the regulations mandating ridiculous technical regulations, horribly expensive engines, energy recovery systems, battery technology... on and on.   It is time to simplify the formula, kick the shitbox economy car car companies out and get back to RACING!



#26 P123

P123
  • Member

  • 23,877 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 12 April 2014 - 11:59

Lauda wasn't telling people not to complain, he was slating the kneejerk agenda driven highly public slating that those who should know better were giving the sport. If only Ecclestone was as keen to promote the sport as he is to stick the boot in in order to pander to the hysterical di Montezemolo and the whining Bulls. Not much of a promoter- good at selling race slots to desert kingdoms, utterly useless at selling the sport to the general public in these supposed new markets.

#27 JHSingo

JHSingo
  • Member

  • 8,939 posts
  • Joined: June 13

Posted 12 April 2014 - 12:08

I completely agree with EvilPhil.     I have been watching F-1 since 1960 and, in my opinion, the current F-1 is the most boring formula in the past 50 years.... and it has been getting worse and worse since they started fooling with the engine formulas... banning 12 cylinders because of fear of Toyota, then banning V10s, then banning V8s, what is next?     The FIA has their collective heads up their ass.   F-1 should not be a promotional series for "Green" initiatives or a development series for car companies looking to sell shitbox economy cars.     IT IS A RACING SERIES!    If the FIA and the car companies continue on the path they have been following for the past 20 years they will destroy F-1.... no one will be interested in watching.    As a long time F-1 follower I am embarassed to say it, but Nascar now has a much more exciting product!   

Yes, F-1 is expensive... but this is due in large part to the regulations mandating ridiculous technical regulations, horribly expensive engines, energy recovery systems, battery technology... on and on.   It is time to simplify the formula, kick the shitbox economy car car companies out and get back to RACING!

 

A bit of perspective would be nice.

 

Let's look at the facts. We already know that if these new engines hadn't come in, Renault and Mercedes would have quit. And precisely who would have replaced them? There was zero interest in manufacturers to enter F1 with the V8s. So what we have been left with? Yes, noisy engines, but perhaps only one supplier - Ferrari. Now you tell me that would have been better than what we have now. You tell me that would have been a healthy championship.

 

Because it wouldn't be. Hell, if F1 is "dying" right now, what would it have been doing if the sport had remained with V8s?!

 

And now look at the impact the new engines have had in a short space of time. Honda is definitely coming back for 2015, there has been talk of BMW, and Ford/Cosworth too. How is that in any way a bad thing?

 

I do wish the internet, and this forum, existed at the time of other big rule changes. What about in the 50s when they went to F2 regulations? Or when manufacturers no longer started putting the engines in the front of the car? "Oh no, F1 is dying! In a few years there will be no F1!" :lol:


Edited by JHSingo, 12 April 2014 - 12:10.


#28 Suntrek

Suntrek
  • Member

  • 1,796 posts
  • Joined: August 07

Posted 12 April 2014 - 12:12

Oh goodie. Another whinging thread.

 

Please take this tedious, monotonous and frankly boring drivel elsewhere.

Oh god, another whinger compaining about other whingers.....

 

Most of us care about F1 and since most of us have ben F1 fans since yesterday that means most of us have a reference material. If you'd like to call that drivel when discussing what's wrong´with today's F1 then I'd like you to explain more freely what's good. Not just whinge.


Edited by Suntrek, 12 April 2014 - 12:12.


#29 billm99uk

billm99uk
  • Member

  • 6,385 posts
  • Joined: February 05

Posted 12 April 2014 - 12:14

Funny though, that not one complainer - not Montezemolo, not Lauda and certainly not Bernie (since it was his idea) mention the one thing that really dumbed down F1 for me, and the one thing almost ALL F1-fans are against - the double points.

The noise I can live with, though I'm no fan. We'll get used to it, and it has it's advantages - now we can hear what the drivers actually say over the radio and we can hear tyres screaming when leaving the pits, for example.

Fuel limitations - I think it has worked rather well so far. And we've always had fuel-saving already. I see no difference yet.

But the double points puts F1 into a clown category fully comparable with other "fixed-for-audience" sports for me. And no, I don't care if Mercedes have the titles wrapped up by Monza (they probably have - double points or not) The double points idea goes against all what constitutes "a sport"


Well the good thing about double points is that it's a really, really easy fix! Unlike engine noise ;)

#30 SCUDmissile

SCUDmissile
  • Member

  • 8,761 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 12 April 2014 - 12:16

He wasn't pleading with *the public* not to complain.

He was suggesting specifically that the complaints made by Ecclestone and di Montezemelo at the weekend were attached to a specific agenda that has chaff all to do with those two wishing to air the views of "the public" and everything to do with advancing their own personal interests.

And he is absolutely correct to make that observation.

 

Yep. Just like what Lauda is doing now. Well, 'preserving' rather than 'advancing'



#31 Gorma

Gorma
  • Member

  • 2,713 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 12 April 2014 - 12:30

Everyone knows that if Ferrari were in Mercedes' position Montezemolo would be saying how great the new engines sound, how great their engines are, how others should learn how to build engines and how the new rules are the right direction for F1 with more focus on engines rather than aerodynamics. 



#32 wj_gibson

wj_gibson
  • Member

  • 3,920 posts
  • Joined: January 05

Posted 12 April 2014 - 12:37

I take any line of argument that is essentially a narrative of Fall (i.e. an essential purity disrupted only in recent years by a series of incomprehensible wrong turns) with a massive pinch of salt. It reminds me of Clive James' comment in the 1982 season review video about young kids idealistically dreaming of some nonsense about knights of the road doing battle. The line is quite clearly delivered to give short shrift to such fatuous daydreaming.

GP1 would be an utter fiasco. It would consist of Ferrari, Merc (who I have strong doubts would even bother given the company's declaration that the new engine tech is what has kept them in the sport at all), RBR and McLaren selling year old chassis to 8 other teams on the proviso that they don't then beat them in the considerably-shortened races, using antiquated fuel-burning engines that have no relevance to anyone anywhere, all to the financial benefit of Ecclestone, di Montezemlo and Briatore.

#33 wj_gibson

wj_gibson
  • Member

  • 3,920 posts
  • Joined: January 05

Posted 12 April 2014 - 12:41

NB there is a massive difference between a critical engagement with the new rules and the sport's future and just producing some item list whinge of "everything that's wrong". As far as I'm concerned the latter really is just drivel. Sorry but that's how I feel. Some F1 fans seem to expect that they should be spoon-fed the formula they personally want.

Mercedes adapted to the new rules better than anyone else. Tough luck for di Montezemelo who only has himself to blame.

#34 Henri Greuter

Henri Greuter
  • Member

  • 12,869 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 12 April 2014 - 12:41

Sorry... typo!. I had meant 2002. 

 

 

EvilPhil,

 

According the autocourse book of 2002-2003, the Ferrari F2002 hat a slightly shorter wheelbase than the Williams which made the Williams a bit more stable in hotlapping like qualifying. However, the shorter wheelbase made the F2002 more agile in race trim conditions and less difficult to drive, if not as fast when driven at 100% like happened in qualifying.

The Williams was the quickest but only over very short distances. The Ferrari was absolutely devastating in race setup.

 

Funny enough, one of the things Ferrari did to improve the 2003 car was to make the wheelbase a little longer in order to perform better in qualifying. The lone race defeat in 2002 for F2002 was at Monaco and was caused by the fact that the F2002 had failed to qualify at the front row (MS 3rd, RB 5th) and Monaco is an impossible track to overtake. Coulhardt & Montoya were on the front row, Monty retired, Coulthardt drove a faultless race, MS was faster but couldn't pass. Otherwise the F2002 might have had the perfect record for winning every race it did in 2002!

Hence why Ferrari wanted to make their new car a better qualifier. Williams on the other hand did exactly the opposite and reduced their wheelbase to make a more race friendly car.

 

Both of the were then beaten by the newly introduced qualifying rules, the single lap qualifying job....

 

 

Henri



#35 wj_gibson

wj_gibson
  • Member

  • 3,920 posts
  • Joined: January 05

Posted 12 April 2014 - 12:42

Double points, on the other hand - that really is just complete idiocy as anyone winning a title through scoring double, who would not have done so through scoring single race points, is always going to be a tainted champion. Who wants that?

#36 BullHead

BullHead
  • Member

  • 7,934 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 12 April 2014 - 12:46

Funny though, that not one complainer - not Montezemolo, not Lauda and certainly not Bernie (since it was his idea) mention the one thing that really dumbed down F1 for me, and the one thing almost ALL F1-fans are against - the double points.

The noise I can live with, though I'm no fan. We'll get used to it, and it has it's advantages - now we can hear what the drivers actually say over the radio and we can hear tyres screaming when leaving the pits, for example.


Fuel limitations - I think it has worked rather well so far. And we've always had fuel-saving already. I see no difference yet.

But the double points puts F1 into a clown category fully comparable with other "fixed-for-audience" sports for me. And no, I don't care if Mercedes have the titles wrapped up by Monza (they probably have - double points or not) The double points idea goes against all what constitutes "a sport"


Totally agree. And Lauda has plainly said he is against the idea.

Edited by BullHead, 12 April 2014 - 12:47.


#37 BullHead

BullHead
  • Member

  • 7,934 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 12 April 2014 - 12:50

Double points, on the other hand - that really is just complete idiocy as anyone winning a title through scoring double, who would not have done so through scoring single race points, is always going to be a tainted champion. Who wants that?


Yes. IMO it is the only issue worth making a big fuss about. Other things might 'spoil' the sport for some, or move it in the 'wrong direction', double points kills it dead and insults the 60 odd years heritage.

#38 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 70,106 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 12 April 2014 - 12:59

I need a snorkel to get through all these tears.



#39 sennafan24

sennafan24
  • Member

  • 8,362 posts
  • Joined: July 13

Posted 12 April 2014 - 13:09

I am not going to storm into the thread and demand that everyone appreciates the current Formula.

 

But this happens every year. For example. the past 2 years

 

2012 - I saw someone on another forum claim that F1 was going in the wrong direction due to them having 7 different winners in 7 races. This guy complained that he wanted the best drivers and best teams competing, and the current regulations were not allowing that

 

2013 - A flock of people claimed they stopped watching due to Seb/RB dominating and the tyre problems.

 

No matter what regulations are in practice, or what drivers/teams are winning, some people will not be happy. Kimi put it best last year when he said "there will always be someone happy in F1, and someone unhappy" The same rule applies to the fans.

 

Yes, you could argue that F1 is not giving the fans what they 100% want. Crofty found that most fans want "sprint racing", in which drivers are allowed to bomb around the track as quickly as possible throughout the entire race. In short, the fans want more of a "speed" Formula than a "thinking mans" formula. For my personal tastes, I agree with the majority. I greatly enjoyed the 2006-2008 regulations personally.

 

But F1 is still entertaining enough for me not to cry foul. I am not saying people should shut up and not moan, but when you watches races like Bahrain 2014, which was a sure-fire classic, it is hard not to be entertained even if you do not 100% like the regulations.



Advertisement

#40 goingthedistance

goingthedistance
  • RC Forum Host

  • 4,471 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 12 April 2014 - 13:16

He wasn't pleading with *the public* not to complain.

He was suggesting specifically that the complaints made by Ecclestone and di Montezemelo at the weekend were attached to a specific agenda that has chaff all to do with those two wishing to air the views of "the public" and everything to do with advancing their own personal interests.

And he is absolutely correct to make that observation.

 

Except that he clearly has his own agenda!



#41 metz

metz
  • Member

  • 15,856 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 12 April 2014 - 13:57

Bernie is in the process of buying back F1.

It is in his interest to devalue it.



#42 Reinmuster

Reinmuster
  • Member

  • 967 posts
  • Joined: September 10

Posted 12 April 2014 - 13:57

Can F1 please limits the money spent but not the innovations?


Edited by Reinmuster, 12 April 2014 - 13:58.


#43 scheivlak

scheivlak
  • Member

  • 16,473 posts
  • Joined: August 01

Posted 12 April 2014 - 13:59

Can F1 please limits the money spent but not the innovations?

No.



#44 uffen

uffen
  • Member

  • 1,892 posts
  • Joined: April 04

Posted 12 April 2014 - 14:32

Jeez, it's not like Lauda has been eternally complimentary.



#45 ExFlagMan

ExFlagMan
  • Member

  • 5,726 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 12 April 2014 - 15:04

Bernie is in the process of buying back F1.
It is in his interest to devalue it.

That has been my impression ever since the rumours started that he wanted to buy it back from CVC and by coincidence he cranked up the criticism. Wouldn't surprise me if LdM and Mateschitz would help the purchase with the finance which might help put their recent comments into perspective.

Edited by ExFlagMan, 12 April 2014 - 16:31.


#46 Nemo1965

Nemo1965
  • Member

  • 7,842 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 12 April 2014 - 15:27

About this thread: first of all, the OP does not want a response about Lauda's comments, he wants to discuss the 'state' of F1.

 

Second of all: it would be advised to watch about fifty races of F1 in the last forty years, and then compare to the three races of this year. I can tell you: in the so-called glory-years of F1 there were more deaths, less overtakes and less thrils than you might expect. We remember the highlights of races we saw in the past. We don't remember the races that were for 90 percent, well... watching cars going round in circles.

 

In my memory, every episode of Monty Python was filled to the brim with laughter-inducing scenes. Looking back on youtube: every episode had one, perhaps two brilliant things. And sometimes there were episodes that only delivered wry smiles.

 

Regarding the last eight years: there is no proof whatsoever that the rule-changes changed sport for the worse regarding the promotion of racing talent - thanks to Red Bull, largely - the promotion of the global brand of F1 (as being regarded the championship of the world - and the value as a tv-sport. That audiences dropped somewhere down the line is perhaps true, but OP does not talk about that, so neither should I.



#47 paulogman

paulogman
  • Member

  • 2,642 posts
  • Joined: June 03

Posted 12 April 2014 - 15:30

Lauda wad addressing Ferrari and ecclestone's complaints not public complaints.
Always going to be sectors of the fan base upset by the current situation.
I'm happy the rules are finally allowing enough power compared to down force that the drivers can't just floor it and hold on.

#48 pingu666

pingu666
  • Member

  • 9,272 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 12 April 2014 - 15:37

they have made choices that make you want to slap them and yell are you ******** in there face. like the nose issues of the past 3 years

 

im bored of this "managing" bullshit too, its ok occasionaly, or someone saving something vs someone going flat out, but seeing guys and gals give it everything is glorious :)



#49 Anders Torp

Anders Torp
  • Member

  • 591 posts
  • Joined: April 04

Posted 12 April 2014 - 15:40


[/quote]

... I'm discussing...

It sure sounds like whining

#50 George Costanza

George Costanza
  • Member

  • 4,536 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 12 April 2014 - 15:43

I'd wish they allow V12, V10 and V8 again.... Which is why some of the 1990s had some of the best sounding cars ever.

 

Put them in today's cars, you'll get a lot of people watching it agian. And have the 2000s tires with no grooves. That would be very very fast.