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Mercedes-AMG F1 W05 Part II


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#101 Zava

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 07:36

1380872782860.gif

you should start hoping that it won't turn out the same way as it did the last time you used that gif. :smoking:



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#102 Jamiednm

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 08:04

BlaBvijCMAEPAje.jpg

 

Wow - easily the highest/most unobstructed nose on the grid  :up:



#103 Timstr11

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 08:16

I agree it's aerodynamically and aesthetically the most pleasing nose on the grid.



#104 Bongodrums

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 08:17

Wow - easily the highest/most unobstructed nose on the grid  :up:

Is this the new nose?? and this picture was taken outside the garage in China



#105 Jamiednm

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 08:21

Is this the new nose?? and this picture was taken outside the garage in China

 

Yes, it's on the Sutton Images site in the 'China Preparations' section.



#106 Bongodrums

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 08:25

So therefore that means it passed it's crash test :-), so if it works as expected, what can we expect in gains anyone???

 

Oh and yes that is a dam sexy nose.



#107 Tommay

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 08:39

It may not be the new nose yet, could just be a slightly modified of inbetween nose before we get our hopes up to much.

I really do hope it is though....

#108 Jamiednm

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 08:40

It may not be the new nose yet, could just be a slightly modified of inbetween nose before we get our hopes up to much.

I really do hope it is though....

 

Either way, it's a new nose...



#109 molpid

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 08:48

seen on f1technical

 

36859_ecco_il_muso_corto_della_mercedes_



#110 Bongodrums

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 08:51

It may not be the new nose yet, could just be a slightly modified of inbetween nose before we get our hopes up to much.

I really do hope it is though....

It is not just slightly modified, it is hugely modified, just take another look to see how much more it is raised and how much air flow can go through the new one as opposed to the old one. I am convinced that this is the much talked about new one, if not and you are right, and this is an interim one I would be hugely impressed if not gobsmacked


Edited by Bongodrums, 17 April 2014 - 08:53.


#111 Treads

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 08:52

You're aware RIM is dead as a dodo as a consumer company, ya?

 

It's no longer called Research in Motion or RIM, it's now just Blackberry since more than 1 year. 

But I would say there's no chance of the forking over more cash. They are struggling to stay afloat. 



#112 maxx7

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 08:54

new nose?? wow! at last!!



#113 Treads

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 08:55

I agree it's aerodynamically and aesthetically the most pleasing nose on the grid.

 

Wow - easily the highest/most unobstructed nose on the grid  :up:

 

Can somebody please explain this to me. I don't see how the Mercedes nose works legally if it is the highest? All the noses end at the same height, that's in the rules. The Mercedes is all that height. The other teams have a small appendage at that height. It's a completely differently philosophy, right? Or am I missing something? 

The chat before the season was that Merc have gone down the low nose route not the appendage route because they have good rear downforce and don't need the high nose to aid rear air flow. Was this a misunderstanding meaning the Merc nose actually has a different philosophy? 



#114 Jamiednm

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 09:01

I wonder if this higher nose will compromise front end grip though. It probably will to some extent.


Edited by Jamiednm, 17 April 2014 - 09:20.


#115 study

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 09:02

I wonder how many they have of it?



#116 Timstr11

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 09:22

I wonder if this higher nose will compromise front end grip though. It probably will to some extent.

??? How. Please explain.



#117 bonjon1979a

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 09:53

Can somebody please explain this to me. I don't see how the Mercedes nose works legally if it is the highest? All the noses end at the same height, that's in the rules. The Mercedes is all that height. The other teams have a small appendage at that height. It's a completely differently philosophy, right? Or am I missing something? 

The chat before the season was that Merc have gone down the low nose route not the appendage route because they have good rear downforce and don't need the high nose to aid rear air flow. Was this a misunderstanding meaning the Merc nose actually has a different philosophy? 

I think that you have to think about the nose as similar to the Lotus tusk nose. It's able to meet the low requirments of the nose with the two thin pylons down either side that attach to the wing allowing them to have a higher unobstructed central section.



#118 Jamiednm

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 09:55

??? How. Please explain.

 

Just speculation on my part, lower noses in recent seasons seem to be on cars with better front end grip, lower CoG at the front of the car = better mechanical grip etc.



#119 Markn93

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 09:57

Just speculation on my part, lower noses in recent seasons seem to be on cars with better front end grip, lower CoG at the front of the car = better mechanical grip etc.

On the contrary, I think this new nose helps cure some (hopefully all) of the understeer they've been experiencing with the car so far. Perhaps it's only flaw.



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#120 slmk

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:02

You're aware RIM is dead as a dodo as a consumer company, ya?

 

I know, mate. They are called Blackberry right now. And my post implied that they are not doing well indeed (hence they will need to get a better/bigger sponsor, which should hopefully not be hard to find given their current form).

 

Re "new" nose, it's that's the new nose, it's slightly underwhelming. But I doubt it is the new nose.

 

EDIT: Somers says that it is indeed their new nose. Very underwhelmed... 

 

Armchair speaking: I don't see what's so complex (engineering-wise) with this nose; it looks like Mk.1 but raised by a few centimeters.


Edited by slmk, 17 April 2014 - 10:06.


#121 Jamiednm

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:07

I know, mate. They are called Blackberry right now. And my post implied that they are not doing well indeed (hence they will need to get a better/bigger sponsor, which should hopefully not be hard to find given their current form).

 

Re "new" nose, it's that's the new nose, it's slightly underwhelming. But I doubt it is the new nose.

 

EDIT: Somers says that it is indeed their new nose. Very underwhelmed... 

 

Armchair speaking: I don't see what's so complex (engineering-wise) with this nose; it looks like Mk.1 but raised by a few centimeters.

 

What were you expecting? It's like no other nose on the grid.  :confused:



#122 slmk

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:11

What were you expecting? It's like no other nose on the grid.  :confused:

 

The way they hyped up this nose, I expected something totally out of the ordinary. 

 

After having a second look, it definitely looks shorter and higher, but again failing to see how it took them 5! tests to get this nose passed (according to Omnicorse).



#123 Neophiliac

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:16

The way they hyped up this nose, I expected something totally out of the ordinary. 
 
After having a second look, it definitely looks shorter and higher, but again failing to see how it took them 5! tests to get this nose passed (according to Omnicorse).


If you think about this for a little longer, you might notice that no other team has managed to crash test a similar structure - not Red Bull, not Mclaren and not Ferrari - although even sitting in the armchair it's pretty clear that the Merc nose offers by far the least obstruction to the airflow. Crash test rules this year are quite difficult - not only must the front of the nose be strong enough generally (and every centimeter of crash structure you remove hurts you in that department), but the debris must disperse in a certain way.

#124 Fatgadget

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:17

^^^
Therefore there is a lot more to the nose than the eye can see!

#125 slmk

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:20

If you think about this for a little longer, you might notice that no other team has managed to crash test a similar structure - not Red Bull, not Mclaren and not Ferrari - although even sitting in the armchair it's pretty clear that the Merc nose offers by far the least obstruction to the airflow. Crash test rules this year are quite difficult - not only must the front of the nose be strong enough generally (and every centimeter of crash structure you remove hurts you in that department), but the debris must disperse in a certain way.

 

That's because other teams have different nose philosophies. Why would they try Merc's concept when they believe theirs fits the philosophy of their car better? It's like saying Merc has not even managed to crash test a penis nose, so it must be hard to replicate.



#126 Lewisisabamf

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:25

That's because other teams have different nose philosophies. Why would they try Merc's concept when they believe theirs fits the philosophy of their car better? It's like saying Merc has not even managed to crash test a penis nose, so it must be hard to replicate.

Mercs news noise obstructs the air flow less then the others, the reason the others didn't try it is as they thought it would be impossible for it to pass the crash test.



#127 Markn93

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:25

I know, mate. They are called Blackberry right now. And my post implied that they are not doing well indeed (hence they will need to get a better/bigger sponsor, which should hopefully not be hard to find given their current form).

 

Re "new" nose, it's that's the new nose, it's slightly underwhelming. But I doubt it is the new nose.

 

EDIT: Somers says that it is indeed their new nose. Very underwhelmed... 

 

Armchair speaking: I don't see what's so complex (engineering-wise) with this nose; it looks like Mk.1 but raised by a few centimeters.

Just because you don't see why doesn't mean it isn't an incredible engineering feat. It took 5 crash tests to pass according to omnicorse.it/ amus says 4, so it must have something 'complex' about it's design, The second bolded part is nowhere near as easy to do as you so easily dismissed and helps improve aiirflow greatly. 

 

Also looks rather similar to the render does it not, jrg19?  :wave:  :p


Edited by Markn93, 17 April 2014 - 10:30.


#128 KiloWatt

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:26

I think it looks damn ugly.  I preferred the old one from an aesthetic pov.  But if it makes the car faster, I'll take it!  :p



#129 Markn93

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:28

I think it looks damn ugly.  I preferred the old one from an aesthetic pov.  But if it makes the car faster, I'll take it!  :p

Nah it looks great, I think it helps the whole proportion and curvature of of the car, aesthetically speaking - 

 

http://img2.auto-mot...fc4a-772286.jpg

http://img1.auto-mot...c3bb-772285.jpg


Edited by Markn93, 17 April 2014 - 10:29.


#130 Zava

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:28

That's because other teams have different nose philosophies. Why would they try Merc's concept when they believe theirs fits the philosophy of their car better? It's like saying Merc has not even managed to crash test a penis nose, so it must be hard to replicate.

and that is like saying that merc has not even managed to build a slow car for this championship, so it must be hard to do so.



#131 muramasa

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:30

the higher the center section of the nose is the more difficult it is to maintain the thinness. Remember height of the tip of the nose is 185mm.

That's why Lotus's "pillar" part is that thick. And why single stick nose solution by many other teams is easier to implement. Not hard to see why it's difficult to "raise the nose" while keeping the profile.



#132 Neophiliac

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:31

That's because other teams have different nose philosophies. Why would they try Merc's concept when they believe theirs fits the philosophy of their car better? It's like saying Merc has not even managed to crash test a penis nose, so it must be hard to replicate.


If you think the penis noses is the aero engineers dream solution, you are blind, my friend. If Williams, FI, STR could lop off their ungainly appendages, they would do so in second. Red Bull too.

#133 Markn93

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:34

Passed test on Wednesday, changed composition of carbon structure repeatedly to get it to pass - http://www.auto-moto...en-8310277.html



#134 Neophiliac

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:40

Nah it looks great, I think it helps the whole proportion and curvature of of the car, aesthetically speaking - 
 
http://img2.auto-mot...fc4a-772286.jpg
http://img1.auto-mot...c3bb-772285.jpg


Is that an assymetrical FW or do my eyes deceive me? And is that a new solution or have they always been thus?

#135 Markn93

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:40

Is that an assymetrical FW or do my eyes deceive me? And is that a new solution or have they always been thus?

This.  :wave:

 

This spec fw was first seen in Aus FP and first raced in Bahrain.


Edited by Markn93, 17 April 2014 - 10:41.


#136 Retrofly

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:41

Remember its not just the verticals gap between the wing and the the nose, its the fact they don't over lap (the nose is now almost completely behind the wing now) that allows even more air to be drawn through :clap:

 

is anyone also impressed by the how little surface area they need to connect the wing, man that must be tough.


Edited by Retrofly, 17 April 2014 - 10:42.


#137 Obi Offiah

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:42

I know, mate. They are called Blackberry right now. And my post implied that they are not doing well indeed (hence they will need to get a better/bigger sponsor, which should hopefully not be hard to find given their current form).

 

Re "new" nose, it's that's the new nose, it's slightly underwhelming. But I doubt it is the new nose.

 

EDIT: Somers says that it is indeed their new nose. Very underwhelmed... 

 

Armchair speaking: I don't see what's so complex (engineering-wise) with this nose; it looks like Mk.1 but raised by a few centimeters.

Aesthetically what were you expecting slmk?  The new nose is pretty much what was described by Omnicorse/AMuS etc and shown in the renderings.  Despite never being sure until the real mccoy was revealed, I would be more surprised if the new nose design had deviated from what has been released.



#138 KiloWatt

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:43

Nah it looks great, I think it helps the whole proportion and curvature of of the car, aesthetically speaking - 

 

http://img2.auto-mot...fc4a-772286.jpg

http://img1.auto-mot...c3bb-772285.jpg

 

Hmmm...in practice it looks like:

 

http://image.shutter...r-107398937.jpg

 

But as I said, if it makes the car faster, then it's welcome!



#139 Neophiliac

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:45

This.  :wave:
 
This spec fw was first seen in Aus FP and first raced in Bahrain.


You sure? Look at the top element on each side in the second image there. Seems to just sort of end, abruptly.

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#140 Obi Offiah

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:47

The new nose meets the height restriction because it is an inverse 'U' shape, so while the legs of the 'U' are are around the minimum height, the 'bridge' of the 'U' (which is what essentially governs airflow underneath) can be constructed much higher up.



#141 Obi Offiah

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:49

Hmmm...in practice it looks like:

 

http://image.shutter...r-107398937.jpg

 

But as I said, if it makes the car faster, then it's welcome!

Now that you mention it...................... :lol:

I think it will look much better when attached to the real car.



#142 Markn93

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:49

You sure? Look at the top element on each side in the second image there. Seems to just sort of end, abruptly.

I see what you're saying but it's not asymmetrical, compare these two photos -

 

 

 http://s27.postimg.o...5myoj/image.jpg

http://s7.postimg.or...kdacb/image.jpg



#143 Jamiednm

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:55

That's because other teams have different nose philosophies. Why would they try Merc's concept when they believe theirs fits the philosophy of their car better? It's like saying Merc has not even managed to crash test a penis nose, so it must be hard to replicate.

 

The Force India for example, pretty much has the same concept, but has the appendage because it sees it as being the only way to pass with the crash test.


Edited by Jamiednm, 17 April 2014 - 10:57.


#144 KiloWatt

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:56

Now that you mention it...................... :lol:

I think it will look much better when attached to the real car.

 

Indeed, I'll reserve final judgement when I see it on track.



#145 slmk

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:58

Aesthetically what were you expecting slmk?  The new nose is pretty much what was described by Omnicorse/AMuS etc and shown in the renderings.  Despite never being sure until the real mccoy was revealed, I would be more surprised if the new nose design had deviated from what has been released.

 

I expected something totally different, but now I realize how hard it must have been to get this past. Nose stops literally at the edge of the FW! 

 

Insane job by Mercedes, and hopefully it gives them a few tenths over the previous nose!  :cat:



#146 Obi Offiah

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 11:03

Mercedes-Nase-GP-China-2014-fotoshowImag



#147 Obi Offiah

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 11:06

New pitot tube boom.



#148 Exb

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 11:11

Jamiednm

Posted Today, 11:55

The Force India for example, pretty much has the same concept, but has the appendage because it sees it as being the only way to pass with the crash test.

 

I thought the appendages were  to meet the minimum nose height? Now I'm very confused.



#149 KiloWatt

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 11:19

I wonder if this will help them in the fast corners...  Maybe they can be ahead of RB in those now too (Aldo mentioned RB are faster in those).



#150 Markn93

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 11:20

I wonder if this will help them in the fast corners...  Maybe they can be ahead of RB in those now too (Aldo mentioned RB are faster in those).

I thought about this too, I think they may well just be.