Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 6 votes

Mercedes-AMG F1 W05 Part II


  • Please log in to reply
2196 replies to this topic

#1501 4MEN

4MEN
  • Member

  • 1,556 posts
  • Joined: June 03

Posted 16 May 2014 - 21:25

http://www.planetf1....son-is-not-over

 

So, Mercedes is a "decent" car while Red Bull is "very impressive". Any light on that?



Advertisement

#1502 SR388

SR388
  • Member

  • 3,773 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 16 May 2014 - 21:34

http://www.planetf1....son-is-not-over

So, Mercedes is a "decent" car while Red Bull is "very impressive". Any light on that?




When's the last time he has won anything? I need a boulder sized grain of salt for anything he says.

Edited by SR388, 16 May 2014 - 21:38.


#1503 Fonzey

Fonzey
  • Member

  • 189 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 16 May 2014 - 21:36

That's probably just Smedley's dialect being taken out of context, I wouldn't read too much into it - he's just doing his service to F1, which is making it sound like the season is still alive from an inter-team perspective.

 

Besides, I don't think he's Lewis' biggest fan. :p



#1504 bauss

bauss
  • Member

  • 4,962 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 17 May 2014 - 04:18

does anyone have rear wing pics of the Red Bull n the Merc from Spain.... just want to know if they both ran maximum rear wing df, or anyone has more to play with in Monaco.

 

 

As for the Smedley article, everyone's been making "big gains" from power unit since the start of the season, yet the Merc gap remains untouched. 

 

Actually if you compare Malaysia to Spain, especially with Malaysia been a track you would have thought slightly suited the Merc more, the gap has increased.

 

I remember the Red Bull taking a while for Nico to shake off then.


Edited by bauss, 17 May 2014 - 04:22.


#1505 Timstr11

Timstr11
  • Member

  • 7,596 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 17 May 2014 - 07:49

does anyone have rear wing pics of the Red Bull n the Merc from Spain.... just want to know if they both ran maximum rear wing df, or anyone has more to play with in Monaco.

 

Teams will have one-off modified wings for Monaco so the Barcelona wings will not give you clues.

(e.g Lotus said they will have a "one-off’ aerodynamic package for maximum downforce")


Edited by Timstr11, 17 May 2014 - 07:52.


#1506 Tommay

Tommay
  • Member

  • 149 posts
  • Joined: July 13

Posted 17 May 2014 - 08:00

I think the Merc speed is very dependent at the moment on how close it is between Lewis and Nico. As soon as it's obvious one team mate is clearly faster I would imagine the engine is brought down to its minimum level, hence why Spain there was such a gap as they probably didn't do that.

The bigger question I have is there a cap on engine mode they can use when they are batteling, to me it makes sense that they wouldn't go past a certain setting when agaisnt each other but would both apply when in the heat of a battle and every last bit of HP you can get is important?

#1507 TomNokoe

TomNokoe
  • Member

  • 4,205 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 17 May 2014 - 08:43

Crofty said teams were around 2013 Monza downforce levels for Spain. Gives you an idea what to expect in Monaco.

#1508 Markn93

Markn93
  • Member

  • 4,073 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 18 May 2014 - 01:41

Crofty said teams were around 2013 Monza downforce levels for Spain. Gives you an idea what to expect in Monaco.

Does it?

 

Cool comparison - 

 


Edited by Markn93, 18 May 2014 - 01:44.


#1509 Ev0d3vil

Ev0d3vil
  • Member

  • 307 posts
  • Joined: January 13

Posted 18 May 2014 - 02:04

Wow imagine if they clawed back the DF in the past 4 years. Monstrous cars.

#1510 Fonzey

Fonzey
  • Member

  • 189 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 18 May 2014 - 03:32

That's a brilliant video.



#1511 KingTiger

KingTiger
  • Member

  • 483 posts
  • Joined: September 13

Posted 18 May 2014 - 03:34

Does it?

 

Cool comparison - 

 

 

How can anyone look at that and say they want last year's regulations? Less downforce + more power = very good



#1512 TheManAlive

TheManAlive
  • Member

  • 265 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 18 May 2014 - 07:05

How can anyone look at that and say they want last year's regulations? Less downforce + more power = very good

 

Totally agree. For ages it has been obvious that less DF was needed to get the cars moving around and make them more of a challenge. I think the cars this year are great, different to each other and are able to race. Yes Merc are dominating, but one team was bound to after a new set of rules. Give it time and others will catch up, in the meantime though we get to watch the drivers having to drive the cars well. 

 

(I hate all the moaning that the engines sound wrong and therefore they have ruined F1. Biggest load of tosh I have ever heard. If they artificially change the sound then I will be annoyed as that is not what F1 is about).

 

Sorry for the off topic - this years Merc is a rocket and I am loving watching the two drivers pushing each other.



#1513 Alexandros

Alexandros
  • Member

  • 1,031 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 18 May 2014 - 07:30


Totally agree. For ages it has been obvious that less DF was needed to get the cars moving around and make them more of a challenge.

 

Driving a corner on the limit at, say, 250, is a bigger challenge than driving it at 200. In the second case, when the driver loses grip, he has way less momentum on the car and more time to react.

 

More grip / less challenge only applies to easy-flat-out corners.



#1514 Timstr11

Timstr11
  • Member

  • 7,596 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 18 May 2014 - 07:34

How gracious of Toto:

 

 

“Ross Brawn realised in 2012 that it was not getting any better – he started to recruit and to add some of the people to the organisation in key areas.”

That name is one that hangs over Wolff. Despite all their success in the opening five races – the team targeted 28.5 points per race to win the constructors’ championship, and have so far managed nearly 40 – there is a feeling that Brawn, a giant of F1 who quit in February, should be up there at least sharing in some of the champagne.

Wolff, to his credit, agrees. “Ross has a considerable part in the success of this year. It’s a big shame he’s not here. I’m speaking with Ross regularly, and we are trying to get him to one of the next races to have a look at the team.

“He was so important in building the base, and setting in place some of the structures, and we would like him to be part of the team and see what’s happening this year. He’s going to come eventually – he’s promised to.”

Brawn always had a headmasterly air. When that team order came over the radio, you did not disobey. And judging by the way Wolff speaks of Mercedes’ former team principal, he still defers to him.

“If there is a heated situation on a race weekend, I am trying to imagine what Ross would have done,” Wolff says. “If needed, I give him a call, but I can well see us missing Ross’s calmness and experience in the heat of races, or in the heat of the championship.”

How the team cope without Brawn, as well the departing technical director Bob Bell, remains a live issue.

http://www.telegraph...am-onwards.html



#1515 Tommay

Tommay
  • Member

  • 149 posts
  • Joined: July 13

Posted 18 May 2014 - 09:50

Driving a corner on the limit at, say, 250, is a bigger challenge than driving it at 200. In the second case, when the driver loses grip, he has way less momentum on the car and more time to react.

More grip / less challenge only applies to easy-flat-out corners.


You clearly have some agenda here, I've replied to you in another topic and to be quite honest what your saying is the biggest load of bull.

More grip with less power is harder to drive with more power and less grip? Riiiight

#1516 ballow

ballow
  • Member

  • 270 posts
  • Joined: April 14

Posted 18 May 2014 - 12:02

I think the Mercedes board jump the gun and made a rash decision in hiring Wolff and firing Brawn. There is no way Mercedes can sustain this form beyond 2014. They would implode once the competition has caught up.



#1517 sabjit

sabjit
  • Member

  • 336 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 18 May 2014 - 12:10

I think the Mercedes board jump the gun and made a rash decision in hiring Wolff and firing Brawn. There is no way Mercedes can sustain this form beyond 2014. They would implode once the competition has caught up.

 

The irony of this statement is that you are potentially jumping the gun by saying that.



#1518 Szoelloe

Szoelloe
  • Member

  • 5,646 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 18 May 2014 - 12:52

I think the Mercedes board jump the gun and made a rash decision in hiring Wolff and firing Brawn. There is no way Mercedes can sustain this form beyond 2014. They would implode once the competition has caught up.

 

Except it's not what happened



#1519 TomNokoe

TomNokoe
  • Member

  • 4,205 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 18 May 2014 - 13:42

Does it?

I meant that they probably don't have a whole lot more to put on, even with bespoke packages!

Advertisement

#1520 Markn93

Markn93
  • Member

  • 4,073 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 18 May 2014 - 14:12

I meant that they probably don't have a whole lot more to put on, even with bespoke packages!

Ah I see. Isn't the aim of the general aerodynamic package to be aero efficient (df vs drag)? I assume that sort of goes out the window in Monaco and they prioritise df over drag, so I could see them putting a whopping great rear wing on it.


Edited by Markn93, 18 May 2014 - 14:12.


#1521 raiderhall

raiderhall
  • Member

  • 55 posts
  • Joined: September 13

Posted 18 May 2014 - 18:53

I wonder how fast W05 will go at the oval at Indy. But in Monza trim.



#1522 TomNokoe

TomNokoe
  • Member

  • 4,205 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 18 May 2014 - 18:56

Ah I see. Isn't the aim of the general aerodynamic package to be aero efficient (df vs drag)? I assume that sort of goes out the window in Monaco and they prioritise df over drag, so I could see them putting a whopping great rear wing on it.


Indeed they will. I think I underestimated out of excitement how much DF they'll have in Monaco, but still, all that torque!

#1523 Bartonz20let

Bartonz20let
  • Member

  • 835 posts
  • Joined: March 13

Posted 19 May 2014 - 15:13

Driving a corner on the limit at, say, 250, is a bigger challenge than driving it at 200. In the second case, when the driver loses grip, he has way less momentum on the car and more time to react.

More grip / less challenge only applies to easy-flat-out corners.


Perhaps correct to an extent but the speed difference is much smaller than 50kph and the downforce is considerably lower than previous years and the torque has also increased.

To suggest that these cars are easy to drive because they are much slower is frankly ridiculous.

#1524 DinosaursRoarForHugs

DinosaursRoarForHugs
  • Member

  • 40 posts
  • Joined: March 14

Posted 19 May 2014 - 15:23

The idea that a car being slower in corners means it is easier to drive is so simplistic and poorly thought-out that I'm surprised it came from an apparent fan of motor racing. They're driving cars with much less grip (both mechanical and aerodynamic) and much more torque. Take turns 2 and 3 at Barcelona for example, last year they were just a curved flat-out acceleration zone. This year it was all about balancing throttle and grip through that whole section.

 

Alexandros your argument is essentially the same as saying it's much easier to drive a supercar in the wet than the dry because you're going more slowly in the corners



#1525 4MEN

4MEN
  • Member

  • 1,556 posts
  • Joined: June 03

Posted 19 May 2014 - 16:08


The idea that a car being slower in corners means it is easier to drive is so simplistic and poorly thought-out that I'm surprised it came from an apparent fan of motor racing. They're driving cars with much less grip (both mechanical and aerodynamic) and much more torque. Take turns 2 and 3 at Barcelona for example, last year they were just a curved flat-out acceleration zone. This year it was all about balancing throttle and grip through that whole section.

 

Alexandros your argument is essentially the same as saying it's much easier to drive a supercar in the wet than the dry because you're going more slowly in the corners

 

There are two meaning to the concept of "easy to drive". If a car loses one wheel it's hard to drive, even at slow speed. A car cornering at 5g, with a lot of downforce, with no steering correction, may look "easy" to drive, but physically is not. Even drivers as Alonso said that 2014 cars are not so physically demanding, which is sad, IMO.



#1526 peroa

peroa
  • Member

  • 8,863 posts
  • Joined: March 05

Posted 19 May 2014 - 16:34

There are two meaning to the concept of "easy to drive". If a car loses one wheel it's hard to drive, even at slow speed. A car cornering at 5g, with a lot of downforce, with no steering correction, may look "easy" to drive, but physically is not. Even drivers as Alonso said that 2014 cars are not so physically demanding, which is sad, IMO.

The last time the cars were physically demanding was probably 2008.



#1527 4MEN

4MEN
  • Member

  • 1,556 posts
  • Joined: June 03

Posted 19 May 2014 - 17:19

The last time the cars were physically demanding was probably 2008.

Forget about noise levels or lack of racing, that's what bothers me most. Cars and circuits get more and more safer and, against any logic, cars are getting slower.  :well:



#1528 meddo

meddo
  • Member

  • 1,476 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 19 May 2014 - 17:40

And I thought that EBD made the cars glued to the track, and also extremely physically demanding, because of the G forces sustained during cornering....

At least, that was what the drivers were saying



#1529 Bartonz20let

Bartonz20let
  • Member

  • 835 posts
  • Joined: March 13

Posted 19 May 2014 - 17:44

This is way OT but I'd take a slower car w/o EBD then any day, it's much more interesting to watch and when renault and ferarri sort their acts out the racing will be better too.

#1530 Tommay

Tommay
  • Member

  • 149 posts
  • Joined: July 13

Posted 19 May 2014 - 19:05

I like to see the cars sustain fast speeds through corners, it's just got to be challenging. Easy way to sort it out, let them build monsters of an engine and allow them a bit more aero freedom as well. As long as the power to grip ratio stays around what it is now I think we will be in a good place

#1531 TurboF1

TurboF1
  • Member

  • 748 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 19 May 2014 - 21:25

The last time the cars were physically demanding was probably 2008.


Those 2010 exhaust blown double+ deck diffuser equipped cars were no joke. Esp the rb6, that thing lapped barcelona in less than 1:20... quicker than the 08 cars. Didnt the rb6 break the qualy lap record at Australia?

#1532 pingu666

pingu666
  • Member

  • 8,667 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 20 May 2014 - 00:06

the race pace in recent years has been pretty slow however, and less pushing.

but any f1 car is pretty fast, specialy modern era ones



#1533 chrcol

chrcol
  • Member

  • 989 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 20 May 2014 - 00:25

2014 f1 is so much better, look at the corrections lewis had to do nearly everytime he started the straights, robserg in 2013 didnt need to do that.

 

2013 f1 and especially 2012 when still had full blown diffusers was for the top teams full throttle on most non tight corners, so just picking the right line, no fighting the car, I think the so good down force they got used is why wet racing was causing so many red flags, as the drivers were used to so much grip.



#1534 Rybo

Rybo
  • Member

  • 346 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 20 May 2014 - 03:16

I meant that they probably don't have a whole lot more to put on, even with bespoke packages!


You would be surprised. The average speeds are so much lower in Monaco, that the teams can and will sacrifice every bit of drag/speed to maximize traction and stability. To make matters worse this years cars have so much more torque that those qualities will be every more important. Monaco is tight, twisty, bumpy, and very unforgiving. Nothing can be left on the table.

#1535 TomNokoe

TomNokoe
  • Member

  • 4,205 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 20 May 2014 - 03:24

Those 2010 exhaust blown double+ deck diffuser equipped cars were no joke. Esp the rb6, that thing lapped barcelona in less than 1:20... quicker than the 08 cars. Didnt the rb6 break the qualy lap record at Australia?


How close to the low 1:1Xs do you think Mercedes will be in Canada? If they use their gear ratio joker after Monaco I'll be very excited

#1536 Mtom

Mtom
  • Member

  • 283 posts
  • Joined: April 13

Posted 20 May 2014 - 06:55

Driving a corner on the limit at, say, 250, is a bigger challenge than driving it at 200. In the second case, when the driver loses grip, he has way less momentum on the car and more time to react.

More grip / less challenge only applies to easy-flat-out corners.


I think you use the word "challenge" wrong.
If a car is more challenging that means you have to wrestle it, correct on the steering every time, and play with the pedals.
Its more challenging to take a corner at 100kph in a fiat 500, then take it at 150kph in a ferrari.
They drive both last year and present cars on the limit theres no difference, just the cars limits are lower. Ofc its not as demanding physically because the lower G force, but just as challenging.

#1537 TF110

TF110
  • Member

  • 809 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 20 May 2014 - 07:09

I dont care if cars are sliding around! I want to see cars doing 250kmh+ in turns. This is suppose to be F1, the highest formula. You want cars thatre tail happy, theres formula drift. Teams strive for a hooked up car that drives like its on rails. F1 keeps going backwards in terms of speed and unique innovation. The best thing of the new rules is the engines are powerful, thats what kicks out the rear of the car. Downforce will only solve higher speed turns. Low speed turns youll still have that torque getting cars slipery.

#1538 Obi Offiah

Obi Offiah
  • Member

  • 8,343 posts
  • Joined: November 04

Posted 20 May 2014 - 07:49

The perfect situation for me would be to have cars that can corner like the 2010 RB, but have much more power and torque to they handle like they do right now, if not a little more squirrelly.



#1539 TurboF1

TurboF1
  • Member

  • 748 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 20 May 2014 - 13:05

The perfect situation for me would be to have cars that can corner like the 2010 RB, but have much more power and torque to they handle like they do right now, if not a little more squirrelly.


Rb6 downforce with v10 turbo hybrids. Yes please. Right now it's fun watching the drivers fight with the current cars, esp, Lewis in the w05, but I'm truly dismayed by how much slower the lap times are. I don't like that the current formula doesn't have the scope to break any lap records anymore.

Advertisement

#1540 bauss

bauss
  • Member

  • 4,962 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 20 May 2014 - 13:40

5 seconds down on last years pole time was a bit too much.... I don't mind 1 or 2 seconds slower with more tail-happiness...but 5 seconds was a bit too slow for my taste.

 

wonder how close/far they will be in monaco. could be pretty damn far.



#1541 Markn93

Markn93
  • Member

  • 4,073 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 20 May 2014 - 13:43

Quick question, we hear week after week about Renault bringing software updates, new fuels, and now updating the PU for the un-freeze before 2015, do we think Merc are doing the same just not publicly?



#1542 Markn93

Markn93
  • Member

  • 4,073 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 20 May 2014 - 13:45

"The Mercedes Formula 1 team fears that one of the biggest advantages it had at the Monaco Grand Prix may be wiped out because its 2014 car is so good."

 

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/114029

 

:smoking:



#1543 Fonzey

Fonzey
  • Member

  • 189 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 20 May 2014 - 13:49

Quick question, we hear week after week about Renault bringing software updates, new fuels, and now updating the PU for the un-freeze before 2015, do we think Merc are doing the same just not publicly?

 

Most definitely. Renault are stuck in a PR nightmare, so they need to be forever vocal about improvements.



#1544 Timstr11

Timstr11
  • Member

  • 7,596 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 21 May 2014 - 15:02

Mercedes 'polishing the silver'. New front wing paint scheme:

https://twitter.com/...125518877806592



#1545 Markn93

Markn93
  • Member

  • 4,073 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 21 May 2014 - 15:39

http://img2.auto-mot...1391-779866.jpg Super-duper monkey seat



#1546 Obi Offiah

Obi Offiah
  • Member

  • 8,343 posts
  • Joined: November 04

Posted 21 May 2014 - 15:42

Mercedes 'polishing the silver'. New front wing paint scheme:

https://twitter.com/...125518877806592

That's the intermediate front wing, not the latest that was raced in Spain.  I wonder if the whole car will feature the new scheme.



#1547 maxx7

maxx7
  • Member

  • 122 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 21 May 2014 - 15:42

Bigger monkey seat for Monaco, according to Giorgio Piola on Omnicorse, with an additional upper profile close to the pylons...

38075_la_mercedes_con_un_monkey_seat_mag


Edited by maxx7, 21 May 2014 - 15:43.


#1548 Obi Offiah

Obi Offiah
  • Member

  • 8,343 posts
  • Joined: November 04

Posted 21 May 2014 - 15:47

This is the latest front wing used in Spain:

Mercedes-Formel-1-GP-Monaco-21-Mai-2014-

I think I prefer the old livery, but I'll wait until the cars hit the track.

 

EDIT:

I just noticed the front wing livery is asymmetric. ):  I like symmetry.


Edited by Obi Offiah, 21 May 2014 - 16:06.


#1549 Markn93

Markn93
  • Member

  • 4,073 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 21 May 2014 - 15:49

I like it! 

 

You are miserable when it comes to new things on this car Obi. 



#1550 Obi Offiah

Obi Offiah
  • Member

  • 8,343 posts
  • Joined: November 04

Posted 21 May 2014 - 15:49

Mercedes-Formel-1-GP-Monaco-21-Mai-2014-