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Ionized Air


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#1 MarkWill

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 13:24

Would ionized air burn more efficiently than non-ionized air in an engine combustion chamber?



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#2 desmo

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 04:43

Can't imagine it could make any significant difference although I'm sure there's someone out there with a product to sell that would differ.

#3 Magoo

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 09:24

Would ionized air burn more efficiently than non-ionized air in an engine combustion chamber?

 

 

No, but it will make your exhaust odor fresher and your garage will smell like newmown hay on the meadow. 



#4 275 GTB-4

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 05:50

But can I also get a pine fragrance??? :well:

Patent here:

http://www.google.co...tents/US5010869



#5 Dipster

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 06:57

But can I also get a pine fragrance??? :well:

Patent here:

http://www.google.co...tents/US5010869

As a TNFer I would prefer the evocative smell of Castrol R!



#6 JacnGille

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 00:52

As a TNFer I would prefer the evocative smell of Castrol R!

:up:



#7 indigoid

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 10:08

For some reason this thread made me think of Peter Brock and all his crazy polariser and crystal energy fields crap. With the exception of events like the Isle of Man TT, racing seems to have become pretty boring :(



#8 Kelpiecross

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 11:13

This question probably deserves a bit more thought than most people seem to be giving it. The question could be rephrased as "How does ionising affect the reaction rate etc. of oxygen?"
If you take as an example the ultimate ionised air (or oxygen) - the "plasma" of a lightning flash - this would not be reactive to a fuel at all as any compound formed would be ripped apart by the ionising. As well as this, as ionising involves the outer electrons of an atom, it is these electrons that take part in chemical reactions - probably no reaction would (or could) occur at all.

Presumably the "ionised air" referred to in the question is the variety that comes out of a household "ioniser" - I would imagine that the degree of ionising is very slight - thus having little affect of reaction rates etc. Any ionised particles would probably not make it through the metal intake tracts of an engine without being discharged anyway.

So my verdict would be that non-ionised air would react best in a combustion chamber with the reaction rate falling off with the increasing degree of ionisation of the air - but, as ever, I could be wrong.

But if you could make such a ionising gadget to fit on the intake you could probably make a lot of money. Like the famous "Hyclone" and similar gadgets.

Edited by Kelpiecross, 22 April 2014 - 11:14.


#9 Greg Locock

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 23:36

I always had a soft spot for vaporising carbies and the like.Or if you prefer Harry Watson's hydrogen injection project. It seems likely that there are things you can do to the incoming charge that will improve combustion, and overall efficiency, but so far they haven't really taken off.



#10 MarkWill

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 16:49

HI,

 

Kelpicross, you have provided a good (understandable to me) answer. Thanks. I was not referring to air that comes out of a household ionizer, but more to the one you describe in the "lightning" effect - I was curious as to what impact "pulverized air" might have.



#11 Kelpiecross

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 13:52


Research groups have examined just about every possible effect of every kind but I doubt if anyone has studied the chemical reactions of "plasma" - just too difficult. I don't see how you could have a chemical reaction with all the outer electrons torn away.

#12 Greg Locock

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 11:04

Pretty easy with hydrogen! yer lead acid battery does it all the time.


Edited by Greg Locock, 25 April 2014 - 11:05.


#13 bigleagueslider

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 08:02

With regards to the combustion process in an IC engine, the only component in "air" that really matters is oxygen. All of the other components in air are basically inert. As for ionized "air", this could mean that the oxygen would primarily be in the form of ozone, or O3, which is more chemically unstable than diatomic oxygen, or O2. Ozone (O3) is a very powerful oxidant, and it will readily react with carbon compounds at low temps to form CO2.

 

If you were somehow able to combine the stoichiometrically correct amounts of oxygen in the form of ozone (O3) with the proper amounts of a hydrocarbon fuel in the combustion chamber of a piston engine at precisely TDC,  the resulting rapid combustion and heat release rate would produce a very high thermal efficiency. Unfortunately, it would require huge amounts of energy to convert the mass of O2 required by an IC engine to O3.