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Sebastian, Daniel is faster than you


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#1 2014wdc

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 09:49

It's the second time in a row....worth of a thread. Keep calm and discuss civile

 

Do you think it will last...will Seb become a nr.2..?

Could Seb watch for another team...?



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#2 LoudHoward

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 09:55

Keep calm and discuss civile

 

Tough luck.



#3 kedia990

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 09:55

It's the second time in a row....worth of a thread. Keep calm and discuss civile

 

Do you think it will last...will Seb become a nr.2..?

Could Seb watch for another team...?

 

Do you think it will last...will Seb become a nr.2..?

    No.

 

.Could Seb watch for another team...?

   Only if you think that running away will help Seb's image.



#4 ZionLH

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 09:58

WTF Sigh some people.... such premature comments. 



#5 RedBaron

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 09:59

I thought Vettel's reaction was superb and spot on. Tough luck.

 

Once he was given more information however, he did move aside or gave up the fight at least... sort of. Once he had no choice.


Edited by RedBaron, 20 April 2014 - 10:06.


#6 hollowstar

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 10:02

Do you think it will last...will Seb become a nr.2..?

    No.

 

.Could Seb watch for another team...?

   Only if you think that running away will help Seb's image.

 

I do think if he wants to shut up naysayers (like me  :p), Seb has to take a risk and switch teams at some point. Try and win with something else than a Newey-mobile. 

 

Has that moment arrived yet, I don't know.  But Ricciardo has started hurting his reputation. 


Edited by hollowstar, 20 April 2014 - 10:38.


#7 2014wdc

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 10:02

    No.

..

   Only if you think that running away will help Seb's image.

Why, if Daniel starts outperform him constantly..i think he has no choice.

...

Yes can help his image.



#8 skc

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 10:05

No, no, no...Seb should not switch teams.

 

He's simply struggling with the car and has to work hard to get on top of it. Last year Lewis had similar issues although not as bad as what Seb is apparently encountering.



#9 Schumster

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 10:06

Vettel, the best No.2 driver in F1.



#10 spacekid

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 10:14

If Seb can't get to grips with this current formula I think he could find himself the #2 driver at Red Bull. He can ignore team orders all he likes, but this is happening too frequently to be a coincidence.

I don't doubt Sebs class for one second, but ultimately the differences between the drivers aren't huge and if Seb can't get on top of this years car he can't expect preferential treatment. Quite the opposite in fact. And I stand by my opinion that the teams are entitled to direct their cars as they see fit for an optimal result. How the team deal with a driver who ignores instructions, well that's a tricky one...

#11 SlickMick

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 10:35

At this stage it's way too early to make sweeping statements other than DR is no donkey.

The one thought I have is who decides, within teams, to use the phrase "XXXXX is faster than you"?  It's idiotic especially as it's the driver/car/tyre/strategy combo that is determining relative speeds between teammates at any one time. Seems immature, rude, condescending, unprofessional, lazy etc. to me and you would expect people with brains the size of planet to realize this, especially as they've decided the tyres/set up/strategy in the first place - they might as well say, sorry we screwed up your race, you're knackered, but the other guy isn't ,so can you kindly let him by please. 



#12 sprice

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 10:40

At this stage it's way too early to make sweeping statements other than DR is no donkey.

The one thought I have is who decides, within teams, to use the phrase "XXXXX is faster than you"?  It's idiotic especially as it's the driver/car/tyre/strategy combo that is determining relative speeds between teammates at any one time. Seems immature, rude, condescending, unprofessional, lazy etc. to me and you would expect people with brains the size of planet to realize this, especially as they've decided the tyres/set up/strategy in the first place - they might as well say, sorry we screwed up your race, you're knackered, but the other guy isn't ,so can you kindly let him by please. 

Totally agree.  Seb must have been furious with the team but as expected was a total pro facing the media.  Behind closed doors though I imagine he'll have more to say.  Had it been Webber, would have been a different story with the media.



#13 RedBaron

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 10:42

At this stage it's way too early to make sweeping statements other than DR is no donkey.

The one thought I have is who decides, within teams, to use the phrase "XXXXX is faster than you"?  It's idiotic especially as it's the driver/car/tyre/strategy combo that is determining relative speeds between teammates at any one time. Seems immature, rude, condescending, unprofessional, lazy etc. to me and you would expect people with brains the size of planet to realize this, especially as they've decided the tyres/set up/strategy in the first place - they might as well say, sorry we screwed up your race, you're knackered, but the other guy isn't ,so can you kindly let him by please. 

 

I understand what you're saying but the phrase isn't meant as an insult or any of the descriptive words you used.

 

The reason for that phrase is from a time when team-orders were banned... so Ferrari - for example with Felipe and Fernando - would come on the radio and say 'Fernando is faster than you' and that was the message to tell Felipe to move aside, without directly telling him 'You're holding him up, here's a team-order, move out the way and let him by'

 

It's just continued on as the 'norm' without any malice attached to it. Although as we saw in Malaysia, it's not really a good idea to use that phrase on Felipe Massa as it hits a nerve.



#14 Knot

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 10:44

Webber must be doing cartwheels.



#15 skc

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 10:45

I don't understand why these issues even come up all the time.

 

Surely there can't be THAT many different scenarios to work out beforehand.

 

Even the drivers themselves can agree between themselves and say "Look if I'm ahead of you but on a different strategy, I'll let you through and vice versa...deal?"

 

So, somebody messed up here.


Edited by skc, 20 April 2014 - 10:47.


#16 2014wdc

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 10:48

Webber must be doing cartwheels.

 

:)



#17 zebra

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 11:30

  At least they were honest. It's easy to talk when you don't have to manage F1 team where any battle between team mates may cost you not a one car but two at once. So they face a hard choice whether to compromise reputation or lose points. And as for racers it's not in their blood to give in so it's hard choice for them too. I don't blame them either. But I think they should discuss it and make some agreement beforehand.



#18 pdac

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 16:25

At this stage it's way too early to make sweeping statements other than DR is no donkey.

The one thought I have is who decides, within teams, to use the phrase "XXXXX is faster than you"?  It's idiotic especially as it's the driver/car/tyre/strategy combo that is determining relative speeds between teammates at any one time. Seems immature, rude, condescending, unprofessional, lazy etc. to me and you would expect people with brains the size of planet to realize this, especially as they've decided the tyres/set up/strategy in the first place - they might as well say, sorry we screwed up your race, you're knackered, but the other guy isn't ,so can you kindly let him by please. 

 

Yes, they should have some kind of code - something like "multi21".

 

Oh, wait ...



#19 berni19

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 17:24

I think currently Daniel is more adapted to this new car, Seb is still in phase of learning the optimal grip of this turbo power vehicle. If I was the chief of the team I definitely gave Daniel room and place at the same level as Seb...no commands from the box as today...if Daniel is quicker let him pass like driver should do, nothing more. 



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#20 MikeV1987

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 17:28

I seem to remember quite a few people on here flaming RBR for signing Dan, as he will be the number 2. Where are those same loud mouths now?



#21 Hanzo

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 17:43

I don't know, OP. But surely this situation is very interesting.

Last few seasons, everytime the message "Vettel radio" appeared on the screen it was normally quite dull stuff: "Seb watch your tyres", "Seb, we don't need fastest lap, just bring the car home please..." etc, etc...

This season, everytime I see "Vettel radio", I wet my pants in anticipation  :stoned:



#22 loki

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 17:49

In terms of results thus far Vettel already is a the #2 driver.



#23 sprice

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 17:50

In terms of results thus far Vettel already is a the #2 driver.

 

Ahead on the scoreboard though.   ;)



#24 Hans V

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 17:58

I believe Vettel is a great driver, but his main advantage the last few years has been his mastery of the blown diffuser. Without that he has lost some of his competetive advantage. Perhaps he hasn't adapted his driving style to a non-blown-diffuser-car?

Vettel seems like a really good guy, but after his dominance the last years I can't deny I find it amusing to see him being outpetformed by Ricciardo. And it was fun hearing him blowing a fuse when passes by Koba.

#25 loki

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 17:59

But always on the stopwatch and the racetrack.  And that is where it counts.  Though Riccardo was DQed in Melbourne he handily beat Vettel and has typically beat him in every session.