3535 replies to this topic

[Force Ten]

I saw progress, but only in the last 20 to 30 laps. But only Jenson. He was bloody fast. Kind of confused right now, since they basically said that they had better high-fuel performance than low-fuel. Confusing race all the way through anyway.

They predicted being comparatively slower at the race start and quicker at the race end,

 

It infuriates me to no end when people pick only the segment of a race that suits their particular pet theory and ignore everything else.

 

McLarens today were slower than Mercs and Red Bulls, almost as quick as the quicker Williams, also about on par with FI-s, that were saved by their ability to go long and quicker than both Ferraris. They also had the better lead driver than both the quicker Williams and FI had.

 

That people still whine and moan about the pace when 2 races ago they couldn't get into top ten on real pace is just leaving me speechless. What the hell are you guys waiting? That the car that was lapped by quite a margin 2 races ago would suddenly lap the Ferraris or would you find something to moan about there too?

[Lazy]

JB was so fast in that last stint.

 

http://en.mclarenf-1...aniel Ricciardo

[ElDictatore]

the pace was terrible, especially at the start of the race. Later they had a quite decent pace but the good result is due to other's bad luck and not to McLaren's pace

 

They were quite faster at the end than the Ferraris, Force Indias, Bottas. Granted, 4th due to the crashes

But it's typically Jenson style, he overtakes people and is fastest on the track without anybody noticing. According to his interview he overtook both right before the crash happened

[ATM]

Yep, in one camera angle of the Perez-Massa love scene, you can see that Button is the first one to exit the previous corner, with Hulkenberg hot on his tail.

 

Anyways, I'll take it as it is. Considering that usually fortune is against Button and McLaren as a whole (i.e. the safety car in Bahrein, for instance), not to mention a freak double DNF due to clutch issues (wtf...), it was about time for some good luck to come this way. 

Edited by ATM, 08 June 2014 - 20:29.

[Nicktendo86]

Amazing race from Jenson, seriously hats off to him. Kept his nose clean AMS was fast when it mattered!

[alframsey]

Very good result in the end although I am starting to fear for McLaren, EB's remarks of needing this year and next to get back to the front worried me greatly.

[Emilvang]

Great result, if not a bit unfortunate that Kevin couldn't get 8th. Now let's hope to see a big upgrade package for next race!

[ElDictatore]

They predicted being comparatively slower at the race start and quicker at the race end,

 

It infuriates me to no end when people pick only the segment of a race that suits their particular pet theory and ignore everything else.

 

McLarens today were slower than Mercs and Red Bulls, almost as quick as the quicker Williams, also about on par with FI-s, that were saved by their ability to go long and quicker than both Ferraris. They also had the better lead driver than both the quicker Williams and FI had.

 

That people still whine and moan about the pace when 2 races ago they couldn't get into top ten on real pace is just leaving me speechless. What the hell are you guys waiting? That the car that was lapped by quite a margin 2 races ago would suddenly lap the Ferraris or would you find something to moan about there too?

 

I think we all wanna see wins. But yeah, the last two races were quite an improvement over what was before. The thing that concerns me though is that they lost so many positions due to bad strategy, they got jumped, always got just behind another car, etc. Would say this result is due to Button finally getting the speed & clean air at the end.

[bogi]

Very good result in the end although I am starting to fear for McLaren, EB's remarks of needing this year and next to get back to the front worried me greatly.

 

 

New people are still on gardening leave probably. It takes time, we just need to menage expetations.

[Force Ten]

I think we all wanna see wins. But yeah, the last two races were quite an improvement over what was before. The thing that concerns me though is that they lost so many positions due to bad strategy, they got jumped, always got just behind another car, etc. Would say this result is due to Button finally getting the speed & clean air at the end.

We'll gotta see Billbalds strategy update to form any kind of an opinion over that. They seemed to suck on supersofts and JB actually pitted early to undercut some people, the problem was that Kimi was so much faster than him there that it kinda neutralized the undercut. Kimi also seemed to be about as fast as JB on the second stint but less able to get past the severely slow Toro Rosso car before them. Once JB got Kimi cleared the race and pace picked up.

[ElDictatore]

We'll gotta see Billbalds strategy update to form any kind of an opinion over that. They seemed to suck on supersofts and JB actually pitted early to undercut some people, the problem was that Kimi was so much faster than him there that it kinda neutralized the undercut. Kimi also seemed to be about as fast as JB on the second stint but less able to get past the severely slow Toro Rosso car before them. Once JB got Kimi cleared the race and pace picked up.

 

True.

Let's see what Austria & UK bring. If they really make a step forward, the probably can get 4th place in the constructors and depending what Ferrari does, they might even get 3rd - seeing that they're the only engine manufacturer that is winless not impossible. Obviously Williams might have a say in this. I say, bring it on!

[Force Ten]

True.

Let's see what Austria & UK bring. If they really make a step forward, the probably can get 4th place in the constructors and depending what Ferrari does, they might even get 3rd - seeing that they're the only engine manufacturer that is winless not impossible. Obviously Williams might have a say in this. I say, bring it on!

Well, let's just pray that the Williams drivers continue to do exactly as good a job as they have been so far this season.

 

(Read - lots of promise, hope, then a crucial mistake, and kaboom!)

 

If Button were to drive a Williams this season he already would have several podiums, I am pretty sure. And about 25 more points.

[BillBald]

We'll gotta see Billbalds strategy update to form any kind of an opinion over that. They seemed to suck on supersofts and JB actually pitted early to undercut some people, the problem was that Kimi was so much faster than him there that it kinda neutralized the undercut. Kimi also seemed to be about as fast as JB on the second stint but less able to get past the severely slow Toro Rosso car before them. Once JB got Kimi cleared the race and pace picked up.

 

It looked to me as though Jenson just missed out on undercutting Kimi on the first stop, because he lost a little time behind Kvyat. So you could criticise McLaren for timing the pitstop so that he came out in traffic, but I'm not sure how good their options were.

 

I have to admit that, at that point in the race, I thought this was going to be another pointless race!!

[Force Ten]

It looked to me as though Jenson just missed out on undercutting Kimi on the first stop, because he lost a little time behind Kvyat. So you could criticise McLaren for timing the pitstop so that he came out in traffic, but I'm not sure how good their options were.

 

I have to admit that, at that point in the race, I thought this was going to be another pointless race!!

ditto

[Lights]

I have to admit that, at that point in the race, I thought this was going to be another pointless race!!

 

Yep, can't blame you for that. At some point after the pit stops I sort of already removed my focus of McLaren and instead just tried to enjoy the battles up front. Had no idea this would happen.

[Waffle]

The pace of the car in the third stint was blinding. It was Ok in the other 2 stints, but that car seemed to enjoy being light. I'm trying to work out how that might have something to do with them running high downforce, contrary to the other teams, but I can't make a connection. Maybe just one of those things.

Shame Kev couldn't get past Vergne. It felt like he was stuck behind him for 20 laps.

I would say that one thing that needs fixing on that car is qualy pace (although the high downforce setup didn't help this time). It generally seems to be faster in the races - although we know that Button's strength, at least, is race pace rather than qualy, so it might not be the car.

[Rocket73]

Jenson   

[Fastcake]

Yep, can't blame you for that. At some point after the pit stops I sort of already removed my focus of McLaren and instead just tried to enjoy the battles up front. Had no idea this would happen.

 

I just caught Button closing to Alonso and Hulkenberg in the last stages, but I never thought he'd past them, yet alone finish fourth.

[Lemans]

Well! That was a pleasant shock!

Well done, Jenson!

 

I'm also really liking EB more everyday. He gives me confidence that the team are making the right changes behind the scenes. Keep up the hard work, McLaren. You'll be rewarded soon.

[Waffle]

JB was so fast in that last stint.

http://en.mclarenf-1...aniel Ricciardo

Button ran a string of laps at 1:18.9. That's faster than the fastest laps of Hulkenberg, Bottas, Vettel, Perez and Hamilton.

[ElDictatore]

It looked to me as though Jenson just missed out on undercutting Kimi on the first stop, because he lost a little time behind Kvyat. So you could criticise McLaren for timing the pitstop so that he came out in traffic, but I'm not sure how good their options were.

 

I have to admit that, at that point in the race, I thought this was going to be another pointless race!!

 

Tbh, I was actually just writing off the whole season at that very moment, seeing where FI and Williams were at that time.

[onewingedangel]

Button ran a string of laps at 1:18.9. That's faster than the fastest laps of Hulkenberg, Bottas, Vettel, Perez and Hamilton.

 

Metronomic pace in clear air. 6 straight laps at 1:18.9 and the surrounding laps just a few tenths either way.

[Mc_Silver]

Good drive from Jenson.     We were pretty slow at the beginning of the race but after the last pit stops Jenson was the fastest man from lap 40 onwards. We really need some major upgrades, if we want to fight with Williams and Ferrari. 

Edited by Mc_Silver, 08 June 2014 - 22:29.

[ermo]

If Button were to drive a Williams this season he already would have several podiums, I am pretty sure. And about 25 more points.

Well, the Williams appears quite tail-happy, so not really sure that Jenson would necessarily get on all that well with it?

And Bottas should definitely have finished higher up the order, except he locked up and got a massive flatspot under braking for the hairpin right after his last stop. He basically ruined his chances for a strong final stint with that single crucial mistake...

Jenson took huuuge chunks of time out of Alonso (especially once Alonso got stuck behind Hülkenberg) in the final stint when he was in free air (up to 1.5s a lap IIRC). At that point in the race, Jenson was frequently the fastest guy on the track bar Massa (who had much newer tyres and higher top speed). Given that Alonso was the one who stopped Jenson's momentum at the start (which allowed Kimi to mug him and get ahead), there was a certain poetic justice in the fact that Jenson overtook Alonso due to Alonso outbraking himself.

Taking a step back, corrected for the Massa/Perez incident and Hamilton's retirement, Jenson would have raced his way to seventh, two places up on his starting position, but still behind one FI and one Williams; I'm not sure he could have nailed Perez on that final lap, but I admit that I didn't watch his time relative to Perez that closely due to the shunt.

But the real losers are yet again Williams. They finally build a good, fast car and then they continually squander its potential with pit-stop issues and driver errors. For all we know, Williams had the pace to be on the podium on merit today.

Edited by ermo, 08 June 2014 - 23:34.

[Seanspeed]

I didn't realize that Button had gotten past Alonso(and Hulkenberg) til after the race ended.

WTF? God damn you Button. lol

Anyways, what happened there?

[ermo]

It looked to me as though Jenson just missed out on undercutting Kimi on the first stop, because he lost a little time behind Kvyat. So you could criticise McLaren for timing the pitstop so that he came out in traffic, but I'm not sure how good their options were.
 
I have to admit that, at that point in the race, I thought this was going to be another pointless race!!

I see what you did there...

 

I was swearing at the live timing right about that time too.  But boy, am I'm glad that Jenson stuck with it!

[onewingedangel]

Christian Horner says he has shaken hands with Ron Dennis on the Dan Fallows 'tug of love' issue...
 
Asked if the deal involved ex-RBR man Peter Prodromou starting work early at McLaren Christian smiled and said we could speculate...
 
@adamcooperF1

[Mc_Silver]

Christian Horner says he has shaken hands with Ron Dennis on the Dan Fallows 'tug of love' issue...
 
Asked if the deal involved ex-RBR man Peter Prodromou starting work early at McLaren Christian smiled and said we could speculate...
 
@adamcooperF1

 

Let's speculate then. Peter Prodromou to start his job from Monday!   

[RockyRaccoon68]

I didn't realize that Button had gotten past Alonso(and Hulkenberg) til after the race ended.

WTF? God damn you Button. lol

Anyways, what happened there?

 

That took me by surprise too!  Alonso went very deep at the hairpin and Button got them both.

[ermo]

That took me by surprise too!  Alonso went very deep at the hairpin and Button got them both.

 
Leading up to that moment, Jenson had been in DRS range of Alonso for a couple of laps, applying pressure.  Alonso was also in DRS range of Hülkenberg at the time.

[10e10]

Let's speculate then. Peter Prodromou to start his job from Monday!   

Let's hope so!

[Lemans]

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/114359

 

JB:

"There's more coming, the next couple of races should be where we see progress and take us closer to the front.

"A fourth place without people crashing is probably our aim for the next race."

 

Well that's very optimistic. I'm not sure I can buy it but I really hope I'm proven wrong.

Go, McLaren!

Edited by Lemans, 09 June 2014 - 01:28.

[Waffle]

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/114359

 

JB:

"There's more coming, the next couple of races should be where we see progress and take us closer to the front.

"A fourth place without people crashing is probably our aim for the next race."

 

Well that's very optimistic. I'm not sure I can buy it but I really hope I'm proven wrong.

Go, McLaren!

 

Yeah, I blinked when I read that.  That would mean running at Red Bull pace, so that would have to be a mega upgrade - especially considering that the main upgrade's supposed to be at the following race in Silverstone.

 

For me, 5th and 6th on merit would have me dancing round the room.  I'd even be happy with 7th and 8th.  I don't think we can expect any more than McLaren being 3rd fastest at the end of the season, so a clear 4th fastest after the first upgrade at Austria would be very good.

[Owen]

Race report
http://www.mclaren.c...ix-race-report/

Plus this from Autosport
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/114359
"There's more coming, the next couple of races should be where we see progress and take us closer to the front.
"A fourth place without people crashing is probably our aim for the next race." JB

[Lazy]

Hopefully there will be some very interesting data for the team from that last stint.

[Dalton007]

It seems we suck in the first stint, but we are quite quick once the track is rubbered in..?    

[Force Ten]

It seems we suck in the first stint, but we are quite quick once the track is rubbered in..?    

Apparently it was the supersofts.

[Rinehart]

The "blinding" pace by Button towards the end of the race in clear air needs to be considered against the pace of a stricken Mercedes and two trains of cars following 1 stopping FI's.

 

Great result, but really, not sure McLaren were even point scorers on merit. I'm not sure McLaren are currently out developing Force India, let alone Mercedes.

[Lazy]

Not sure about that, fastest lap of the race was only a few tenths quicker than JB was doing for most of the stint.

[Seanspeed]

The "blinding" pace by Button towards the end of the race in clear air needs to be considered against the pace of a stricken Mercedes and two trains of cars following 1 stopping FI's.
 
Great result, but really, not sure McLaren were even point scorers on merit. I'm not sure McLaren are currently out developing Force India, let alone Mercedes.

It was a track that should have suited them as well.

Don't think anybody should be making any conclusions from that race.

[Nicktendo86]

Don't tease me with those words Jenson, my heart can't take it lol

[Force Ten]

The "blinding" pace by Button towards the end of the race in clear air needs to be considered against the pace of a stricken Mercedes and two trains of cars following 1 stopping FI's.

 

Great result, but really, not sure McLaren were even point scorers on merit. I'm not sure McLaren are currently out developing Force India, let alone Mercedes.

1) too bad, if the Mercs brakes (ahem) grenaded. Feeling so sorry for them. Also, Massa on brand new tyres wasn't that much faster.

 

2) Well, again, FI were 5th and 6th constantly when McLarens were unable to get on points. They are on par again, so the McLarens are doing something right.

Seanspeed: "It was a track that should have suited them as well."
 

China - Button was more than a minute down from Alonso. Canada - Button beat Alonso. So they must have done SOMETHING right.

[Owen]

The "blinding" pace by Button towards the end of the race in clear air needs to be considered against the pace of a stricken Mercedes and two trains of cars following 1 stopping FI's.

 

Great result, but really, not sure McLaren were even point scorers on merit. I'm not sure McLaren are currently out developing Force India, let alone Mercedes.

Summarising a lot of team statements, they are all saying 'wait until Europe' to see where we are. So maybe we should have patience then judge development after Silverstone.

[Force Ten]

Summarising a lot of team statements, they are all saying 'wait until Europe' to see where we are. So maybe we should have patience then judge development after Silverstone.

I've yet to remember the instance when for McLaren the pace has been there immediately the race where they've rolled up the development. Usually it's been 1 or 2 races after they've gotten stuff dialled in.

[Waffle]

The "blinding" pace by Button towards the end of the race in clear air needs to be considered against the pace of a stricken Mercedes and two trains of cars following 1 stopping FI's.

 

Great result, but really, not sure McLaren were even point scorers on merit. I'm not sure McLaren are currently out developing Force India, let alone Mercedes.

 

True enough - but it's still an indication of excellent pace.  Any comparison would be compromised by traffic strategy etc.  But, for your info, his lap times were at or beating the fastest laptimes of:

 

• Hulkenberg - running in clear air at fastest lap and until the end of the race.
• Hamilton - wounded car, although his fastest lap was set with a healthy car earlier in the race - would have gone faster with a healthy car later in the race
• Vettel - fastest lap set closing Riccardo.  Didn't run in clear air.
• Bottas - Set fastest lap immediately on catching Hulkenberg, so DRS assisted.  Couldn't do that pace before when catching.  
• Perez - clear air

 

Only 7 cars ran a faster fastest lap than 1:18.9's - and 2 of those were McLarens.  Of the cars that didn't run faster, only Vettel, Rosburg and Hamilton would have gone faster if circumstances had been different.   The fastest lap of the race by Massa (assisted by a late pitstop) was only 0.4 seconds faster.

 

So considered against the things you mentioned, I think the point still stands.  The speed in the 3rd stint was blinding.

 

Edit: Button would have got 7th without retirements, so I'm not sure why you say they might not be point scorers on merit.

Edited by Waffle, 09 June 2014 - 10:43.

[Waffle]

It was a track that should have suited them as well.

Don't think anybody should be making any conclusions from that race.

 

 

Also true.  But it *did* suit the McLaren, contrary to some people's impression after qualy, and even after the race.

[Seanspeed]

China - Button was more than a minute down from Alonso. Canada - Button beat Alonso. So they must have done SOMETHING right.

China flattered the Ferrari being very front-limited, which conversely is what hurt McLaren there.

Canada is a very different track with the characteristics far more suited to the McLaren than to the Ferrari.

You picked China as your baseline comparison for progress, but why not go one race back and look at Bahrain. Again, you see a more Canada-like track and McLaren were stronger than Ferrari. Go back the race before at Malaysia which is more front-limited and Ferrari was ahead.

Very easy to see that track characteristics are causing these big fluctuations in performance rather than proper progress with the car.

Edited by Seanspeed, 09 June 2014 - 10:58.

[Lazy]

Very easy to see that track characteristics are causing these big fluctuations in performance rather than proper progress with the car.

Possibly, but that last stint was impressive by anybody except Merc standards. I think it shows (looks in thesaurus for alternative to "potential") and I'm sure the team will be going through the data to see which combination of factors made that pace possible.

[BillBald]

Given that Alonso was the one who stopped Jenson's momentum at the start (which allowed Kimi to mug him and get ahead), there was a certain poetic justice in the fact that Jenson overtook Alonso due to Alonso outbraking himself.

 

Yes, on the first lap Jenson lines up behind Alonso approaching turn 3, and then Fred decides to go all cautious and brakes early! On the first lap!

[BillBald]

I've yet to remember the instance when for McLaren the pace has been there immediately the race where they've rolled up the development. Usually it's been 1 or 2 races after they've gotten stuff dialled in.

 

Yes, this is not Red Bull.

 

But maybe it soon will be!! (well, a little bit Red Bull).