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McLaren MP4-29- Part II


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#51 Spoch

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 18:06

Some few thoughts on the at Mclaren.

 

If it were a company that was at the forefront of its business and suddenly started posting bad results what would be the first thing to do- Mostly likely answer would be to fire the CEO

A football team turning in bad results would...... Most likely answer would be fire the Manager or Coach

Both approaches are Knee Jerk and most times do not often produce the desired results. Granted that sometimes it may work but whenever it does it is most likely that the new person identifed the root cause of the problem and sorted it out. That is what make a manager great. There is an inherent problem in Mclaren and no one has identified what it is yet and till the root cause is identified then the stroy will be all the same. The car performance is just secondary. A team that exists to win championships should look at its recent history and understand that its problem is core not just a design error. Maybe the staff are demotivated. Maybe the company policy is demoralizing, maybe people are not given room to express themselves. This often happens in places where everything is run off a template. people will get disenfranchised and just turn up for work without actually working. I have no first hand information if this is the problem at MTC but I feel there is an underlying issue at Woking. I never liked Whitmarsh and really cant lose any sleep of him being relieved of his positon but has that solved the problem? I think not. I can list a string of things that seem very strange that have happened within this team in the last 6 years for anyone to see that the problem is core not just with the car performance

 

Box call error in China 2007. Why would anyone let Lewis circulate when his tyres were shot

Various pit stop debacles in 2012

Wrong mounted suspension in 2013 Jerez test

Bringing in  Lewis late to change to slicks in Brazil 2008 that almost cost him the title

Not pitting Lewis under the safety car in Silverstone 2008

When Lewis was penalized in Spain for insufficent fuel after qualy in 2012 the started him from the back why not let him start from the pit and change his setup to aid overtaking. Something redbull did successfully with Vettel that same year over the same reason.

Pitting Jensen to come out in traffic...this happens all the time

 

Maybe I should move this post to the whats wrong with Mclaren thread as it is more suited to that thread



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#52 f1rules

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 19:28

Jan Magnussen, kevins father, says in an danish article that in his opinion they lack a lot of df and a huge change to the car is needed, he even reckons they need a new concept before they can catch up. He says its his opinion, but still he is closer to the things then most. He is very very pessimistic. Im surprised he is this vocal about, i just hope he dont influence kevins position in the team badly. But its obvious he is having difficulties hiding his disappointment. And maybe trying to protect the sons results. They, Kevin, jan and the combined danish media, and population, me included, expected that he would beat jenson, so.


Edited by f1rules, 21 April 2014 - 19:41.


#53 TakataDomeNSX

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 19:54

No, blame me. Every team I support goes down the crapper. :D



#54 Burtros

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 19:57



Jan Magnussen, kevins father, says in an danish article that in his opinion they lack a lot of df and a huge change to the car is needed, he even reckons they need a new concept before they can catch up. He says its his opinion, but still he is closer to the things then most. He is very very pessimistic. Im surprised he is this vocal about, i just hope he dont influence kevins position in the team badly. But its obvious he is having difficulties hiding his disappointment. And maybe trying to protect the sons results. They, Kevin, jan and the combined danish media, and population, me included, expected that he would beat jenson, so.

 

Thats an awful lot of people who have taken a long time to realise how good JB is.

 

While its possible McLarens driver selection process is as flawed as its car concept appears to have become, I dont think its likely. You'd like to think they know if their drivers are any good or not.


Edited by Burtros, 21 April 2014 - 19:59.


#55 Nicktendo86

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 21:10

The world and his dog can see they have gone down the wrong development path, I have no idea how McLaren can't see it. 2016 is the earliest we will be towards the front :(

#56 Force Ten

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 21:24

The thing is, both Jenson and Kevin say that the car responds well enough to setup changes, that the sim-correlation is good and that the car feels fundamentally nice to drive.  In contrast, last year's car did not feel nice to drive at all.  But if you can't get the tyres working (for whatever reason) you are going to struggle, period.  And I'm going to stick out my neck and say that the mechanical platform is likely sound enough -- as soon as they put on more aero, the tyre issues will simply go away and the car will be faster in a wider range of temperatures.

One wonders of course, that if the sim correlation is so damn fine why don't they simply simulate a f***ing car with a good downforce? Why the hell did they build a car that they KNEW had a poor downforce and then verified for the whole winter and first quarter of the season that yes, the sim said the car is slow because it has no downforce and whoah, quess what, the car is slow because it has no downforce! Maybe the sim only works when the envelope isn't pushed at all?

 

I mean, it might sound moronic but if the sim correlation works and the car simply has poor downforce, what makes them think they can simply find downforce somewhere if they haven't already? If they simply can put on parts with significantly more downforce and they've known it always, then it seems kinda stupid that they haven't done it already. Is it really all because of Button's suitcase beneath the engine cover?



#57 coppilcus

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 22:33

One wonders of course, that if the sim correlation is so damn fine why don't they simply simulate a f***ing car with a good downforce? Why the hell did they build a car that they KNEW had a poor downforce and then verified for the whole winter and first quarter of the season that yes, the sim said the car is slow because it has no downforce and whoah, quess what, the car is slow because it has no downforce! Maybe the sim only works when the envelope isn't pushed at all?

 

I mean, it might sound moronic but if the sim correlation works and the car simply has poor downforce, what makes them think they can simply find downforce somewhere if they haven't already? If they simply can put on parts with significantly more downforce and they've known it always, then it seems kinda stupid that they haven't done it already. Is it really all because of Button's suitcase beneath the engine cover?

Bigotry of themselves...

 

... can't understand why o why they are fighting again with the last half of the grid. It's a team "psique", look at the statements from Jenson on Bahrain and his "second quickest bathtub" of the grid.

 

:(



#58 ElDictatore

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 23:23

It was before 2012

 

Count all the years they've abandoned a new design and started fresh

 

2009 - Complete new design for new regs

2010 - New design Shark Fin F-duct

2011 - Upside down side pods

2012 - New design. This one was actually good!

2013 - Lets get rid of the working design and come up with something new!

2014 - New regulations

 

You have to say though that only the change between 2012 and 13 was really unreasonable

 

the 2010 car was good till the exhaust blown diffusor came up. So they needed something new for '11 (that's also why they suddenly dropped behind the others at in-season development in 2010)

2011 They had the Fan tail exhaust which is why they had these sidepods. As we all saw in winter testing, it didn't work out, they needed to change to the Red Bull solution and new sidepods for 2012.

2012 Exhaust rule change. Coanda exhaust, which was actually good

 

Yes they need some sort of design philosophy but seeing how they shuffle the whole team, that might take a little bit.

Also a bit OT, but thejudge13 just writes total crap.



#59 BillBald

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 01:40

Bigotry of themselves...

 

... can't understand why o why they are fighting again with the last half of the grid. It's a team "psique", look at the statements from Jenson on Bahrain and his "second quickest bathtub" of the grid.

 

:(

 

I don't understand why people feel the need to distort what Jenson said after Bahrain. He said that only Merc were definitely faster than McLaren on that particular track. He was correct. If not for the clutch problem, he would have finished, if not on the podium, at least within a few seconds of the podium.

 

The SC changed the situation by giving a free pitstop to the Williams pair and Alonso, who were all going to have to stop again anyway, and allowing the Red Bulls to close up. There is no reason to think any of them would have got close to Jenson, but for the SC.

 

At China, of course, it was a different story, and the post-race comments reflected that fact.



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#60 Newbrray

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 03:14

saw this on F1 technical (courtesy of a poster 385north)..worth a laugh

 

Oh Bruce in heaven, 
McLaren be thou name.
The MP4-29 has come, 
But it drives like a nun,
On earth, as she would in heaven.
Give us today a new front-end,
and we’ll forgive the rear its sins
and lead us not into redesign temptation.
For Woking is the kingdom,
and Honda will deliver the power, and the glory,
for ever and ever.



#61 coppilcus

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 05:44

I don't understand why people feel the need to distort what Jenson said after Bahrain. He said that only Merc were definitely faster than McLaren on that particular track. He was correct. If not for the clutch problem, he would have finished, if not on the podium, at least within a few seconds of the podium.
 
The SC changed the situation by giving a free pitstop to the Williams pair and Alonso, who were all going to have to stop again anyway, and allowing the Red Bulls to close up. There is no reason to think any of them would have got close to Jenson, but for the SC.
 
At China, of course, it was a different story, and the post-race comments reflected that fact.


Not a single day of the entire weekend they were faster than the entire grid except Mercedes...

The SC not only compromised button's race, all the cars ahead of him were affected as well.

#62 PARAZAR

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 06:04

It doesn't help that their aero department is in tatters. Maybe they were holding out for Dan Fallows to arrive in March to help develop the car's aero.



#63 SophieB

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 06:06

Posts removed. This is a thread for discussing how the car is performing or news of any updates. Instead, as with last year, all of that stuff that people come to the thread to read is getting buried under chat about why Jenson Button keeps designing Macca such poor cars (when will they learn?)

Seriously, there might be a thread to be had about the degree to which a driver's feedback contributes to car development but it's going to need more than thejudge13's unsupported (in that instance anyway) opinion on it all, and it cannot happen in *this* thread. Back to the car more directly, please.

Drop me a line by PM if you have anything you'd like to say about that or else back to discussing the car, more directly, please.

#64 Rocket73

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 07:41

It doesn't help that their aero department is in tatters. Maybe they were holding out for Dan Fallows to arrive in March to help develop the car's aero.



I think this is exactly it and it's bad news for macca.

#65 Rocket73

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 07:45

Lol I'm not religous but maybe we need to pray for divine intervention here.

#66 WitnessX

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 07:56

also, on the subject of fuel and lubricants, 

 

Honda has traditionaly used Nippon oil as official fuel during their factory effort with ENEOS brand lubes and transmission oil. will mclaren keep Exxon MObil as their official partner or will they switch??? any rumors on that???

 

sorry for the OT 

There are a couple of "Racers Edge" episodes last year with Tim Goss & Mobil Man (forgotten name) and Mobil will be continuing with Honda. I suppose that Mobil have a better idea of the optimum formula's for the fuel and oils (performance/life tradeoff) from current experience.

 

There was a press release earlier this month from ExxonMobil that they had "exceeded expectations". The fuel chemical content is defined well by the FIA. So I doubt its a major differentiator between the teams as rumors suggest.

 

Unfortunately parts of the Media seems to take the attitude of "your only as good as your last race" possibly because it makes a good story.

 

The car has shown some inconsistency from race to race, but this inconsistency from what I have seen can be explained by their downforce deficit and them having re-learn a chassis/tyre/temperature/circuit-characteristics interaction because it's a completely different car from previous years.   



#67 Lazy

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 08:15

Boullier:

 

“It is important to feel that today, which is not the perception, but I can promise you that if you look at the data, you can see that McLaren are coming back, and that’s what is most important.”

 

http://www.telegraph...n-Shanghai.html

 

Small crumbs of comfort.



#68 bogi

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 08:26

Aero derpartment 



#69 Andy35

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 08:54

Boullier:

 

“It is important to feel that today, which is not the perception, but I can promise you that if you look at the data, you can see that McLaren are coming back, and that’s what is most important.”

 

http://www.telegraph...n-Shanghai.html

 

Small crumbs of comfort.

 

 

Manchester United are rebuilding, says manager David Moyes

I assume if things continue Ron Dennis will still be safe ?   

 

Last of the Mercedes runners, in effect, at the moment is not good at all. Things definitely need to progress in Europe, because the lack of sponsors graphics on the car is not going to be filled in with a big corporate business with Mclaren being lower mid table.

 

Andy



#70 WitnessX

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 09:01

..... and here are some more "details" from Bouillier from the "Shropshire Star"  (Wot???)
 
http://www.shropshir...ren-dont-panic/
 

Boullier is adamant the issues are being addressed and fixes will soon be in place, some from the next race in Spain following a three-week mini-break.

"We're working on it, and obviously it is going to come sooner rather than later I hope," added Boullier.

"Already in the wind tunnel we have picked up a lot of performance, and back in the factory everything is fine, it is just a question of preparing everything and shipping it to the track.

"Some of it will be in Barcelona, whilst other things will take a bit longer than this.

"But we're definitely in the mix - 100 per cent sure. On the track is one thing, but we know in the factory what is going to happen in the next three or four races.

"I know what is going on, so I know we are on a very good development rate."

 



#71 Hyatt

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 09:02

While i switched my focus from McLaren to Mercedes it still bugs me alot to see the team I cheered 20 years for in such a bad condition. Lets hope its just another transition year and they'll bounce back with Honda in 2015!



#72 Lazy

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 09:32

..... and here are some more "details" from Bouillier from the "Shropshire Star"  (Wot???)
 
http://www.shropshir...ren-dont-panic/
 

+

McLaren were leading the Constructors' Championship after the first race in Australia but the Chinese GP was a dismal day for them in a car which is reluctant to heat its tyres and so generates even more surface graining. The car looks remarkably well balanced on track, something the drivers confirm, but it's simply lacking speed despite having the best motor. There's clearly still a disconnect somewhere at McLaren between design, wind tunnel, CFD, simulator and stop watch. They have been pointless for the last two races.

 

=

There's still hope.

 

IF they can bolt on some DF it will be a very good car.



#73 Christophe77

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 09:34

While i switched my focus from McLaren to Mercedes it still bugs me alot to see the team I cheered 20 years for in such a bad condition. Lets hope its just another transition year and they'll bounce back with Honda in 2015!

I have exactely the same attitude. I've always been a Merc fan (Sauber, also in Group C in the 80's), then Mclaren/Merc and now back to Merc with McLaren in the fridge... 



#74 ermo

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 09:36

One wonders of course, that if the sim correlation is so damn fine why don't they simply simulate a f***ing car with a good downforce? Why the hell did they build a car that they KNEW had a poor downforce and then verified for the whole winter and first quarter of the season that yes, the sim said the car is slow because it has no downforce and whoah, quess what, the car is slow because it has no downforce! Maybe the sim only works when the envelope isn't pushed at all?

 

I mean, it might sound moronic but if the sim correlation works and the car simply has poor downforce, what makes them think they can simply find downforce somewhere if they haven't already? If they simply can put on parts with significantly more downforce and they've known it always, then it seems kinda stupid that they haven't done it already. Is it really all because of Button's suitcase beneath the engine cover?

 

It's a fair question, I think.

 

If I were to venture a guess, it would be that the packaging of the engine and wishing to be conservative on the cooling, along with Mercedes not sharing installation details well in advance anymore due to the contractual situation, might have contributed to a later start on the new rear-end package than McLaren would have liked (cf. the rumours of McLaren not being impressed with the lack of information from Mercedes).

 

Second, odds are that the The Great Upheaval within McLaren must have cost some time on the development front due to leadership restructuring (who reports to whom, who gets to sign off on key decisions).  As some of us have surmised in this very thread, I don't think that The Ronster sacking Whitmarsh and Budkowski and then installing Eric Boullier on short notice while waiting in vain for Dan Fallows to arrive did the aero department any favours, for instance.

 

In the end, here's hoping that this is merely a short-term issue akin to the aftermath of a surgical procedure:  The operation is followed by a period of healing and regrowth before the patient returns to duty -- hopefully healthier and more capable than prior to the procedure.  At least Eric Boullier is expressing optimism at the fact that the simulation figures look promising for the new aero parts in the pipeline.



#75 Lazy

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 09:45

From Boulliers comments it seems that they were expecting reliability to be the deciding factor in the early stages of the season and went conservative. Never a good idea in F1.



#76 Nemo1965

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 10:57

From Boulliers comments it seems that they were expecting reliability to be the deciding factor in the early stages of the season and went conservative. Never a good idea in F1.

 

Well, it is a good idea to go conservative when you have a good car... and that's something that McLaren are good at, also. Having something good and then...

 

PS: It ofcourse depends on what you call conservative. I mean: if it's working, don't throw things on it of which you are not absof&*$^@lingy sure they work. And otherwise: enstrengthen your strenghts instead of trying to take away your weakness. While with a bad car you do the reverse...


Edited by Nemo1965, 22 April 2014 - 11:02.


#77 Waffle

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 11:52

The Autosport story is similar to the ones quoted above, but with some 'sources' added in.   It's a pretty optimistic article, but I'm not going to get all excited - I'll believe it when I see it, and I also think that other teams will be making very big gains this year as they get to grips with the new regulations.

 

http://www.autosport....php/id/113601?


Edited by Waffle, 22 April 2014 - 11:52.


#78 rodlamas

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 11:52

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/113601



#79 BillBald

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 12:13

Not a single day of the entire weekend they were faster than the entire grid except Mercedes...

The SC not only compromised button's race, all the cars ahead of him were affected as well.

 

Before the safety car and his clutch problem, Jenson was on target to finish ahead of everyone except the Mercs and Force Indias. In the case of the Force Indias, he was matching their pace. So, as he rightly said, only the Mercs were clearly faster.

 

If you are aware of any other car which was faster, while running a 2-stop strategy, or much faster running a 3-stop, I'd be interested to hear about it. Everyone is affected by a safety car, but for 3 stoppers like Alonso, it was ideally timed..



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#80 Richard T

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 12:30

Well yeaaaaahhh... That is a dangerous thing to say

#81 Mrlarsen

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 12:41

While i switched my focus from McLaren to Mercedes it still bugs me alot to see the team I cheered 20 years for in such a bad condition. Lets hope its just another transition year and they'll bounce back with Honda in 2015!

 

What a fan you are, when things get tough you switch sides.....



#82 Kimiraikkonen

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 12:50

Car is so dependent of each track.

Fast corners kill us.

Another lost season.

#83 Kimiraikkonen

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 12:52

What a fan you are, when things get tough you switch sides.....


x2

#84 Treads

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 14:11

We'll see soon, I think. 

At least as we are so far behind on downforce, there must be easier gains to be made so maybe the team can be expected to catch up in that regard. 

Just to depress everyone a little more - Gary Anderson ranked Mac as the 7th best chassis based on his observations in China. He had some pretty scathing things to say about how Mac tackled turns 1 & 2: 

"If the drivers tried to be in the middle of the road where everyone else was, the car would just understeer wide. So then they would try to hug the inside kerb, and this would mean they had a much tighter entry into Turn 2 to contend with. It didn't look pretty."

Also, 

"The team talks of needing more downforce and I am sure that is what every team would love. But for me, it is aerodynamic or grip consistency as opposed to just more overall load."

These are not good comments to read, as a fan. This is not what the team are telling us at any rate. 



#85 mclarensmps

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 14:13

What a fan you are, when things get tough you switch sides.....

 

Instead of judging him so quickly, you may consider that he may be a Lewis Hamilton fan.

 

I don't think the season is lost. I think the development has been a bit slower than others, and this is reflected in the trends over the first four races. 



#86 mclarensmps

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 14:15

We'll see soon, I think. 

At least as we are so far behind on downforce, there must be easier gains to be made so maybe the team can be expected to catch up in that regard. 

Just to depress everyone a little more - Gary Anderson ranked Mac as the 7th best chassis based on his observations in China. He had some pretty scathing things to say about how Mac tackled turns 1 & 2: 

"If the drivers tried to be in the middle of the road where everyone else was, the car would just understeer wide. So then they would try to hug the inside kerb, and this would mean they had a much tighter entry into Turn 2 to contend with. It didn't look pretty."

Also, 

"The team talks of needing more downforce and I am sure that is what every team would love. But for me, it is aerodynamic or grip consistency as opposed to just more overall load."

These are not good comments to read, as a fan. This is not what the team are telling us at any rate. 

 

I never pay any attention to anything Gary Anderson says. McLaren could be lapping the entire field twice, and he would find something negative to say about them. He built the team up pretty massively both this season and last season, just so he could shoot them down both times.



#87 Force Ten

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 14:17

Instead of judging him so quickly, you may consider that he may be a Lewis Hamilton fan.

 

Well, then he wasn't much of a team fan to begin with, so why dress yourself up as that?

 

I have never been a fan of any particular team, they are just means to get my driver into a hopefully more competitive position, whether it is Williams or Jordan for Hill or various BAR permutations and McLaren for Button.



#88 Obi Offiah

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 14:36

Car is so dependent of each track.

Fast corners kill us.

Another lost season.

While a title challenge looks far fetched at the moment, McLaren may be able to challenge for race wins later in the season if they can sort the car.

 

Remember to 'Keep The Faith'.



#89 sniper80

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 14:40

McLaren has been pathetic last year and continues in the same way this year... A pitty as it is a great team that deserves better. I hope Ron Dennis can bring some good thing back to the team.



#90 Lazy

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 14:45

http://www.crash.net...t-lined-up.html



#91 slmk

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 14:47

 

Bob Bell?



#92 kerum gp

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 14:57

Car is so dependent of each track.

Fast corners kill us.

Another lost season.

Kimmiraikkonen has lost fait. This is sad times indeed.



#93 Lazy

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 14:59

Bob Bell?

I don't think he's an aero guy is he?



#94 coppilcus

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 15:43

Before the safety car and his clutch problem, Jenson was on target to finish ahead of everyone except the Mercs and Force Indias. In the case of the Force Indias, he was matching their pace. So, as he rightly said, only the Mercs were clearly faster.

 

If you are aware of any other car which was faster, while running a 2-stop strategy, or much faster running a 3-stop, I'd be interested to hear about it. Everyone is affected by a safety car, but for 3 stoppers like Alonso, it was ideally timed..

 

http://www.f1fanatic...s-fastest-laps/



#95 jrwb6e

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 15:49

I'm not a McLaren fan, but I'm surprised all of that drag on the rear end has not resulted in any extra downforce in high-speed corners.  When McLaren proclaims that the revised MP4-29 for Spain will have more downforce (according to the wind tunnel), it's hard not to question that.



#96 mclarensmps

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 15:54

Well, then he wasn't much of a team fan to begin with, so why dress yourself up as that?

 

I have never been a fan of any particular team, they are just means to get my driver into a hopefully more competitive position, whether it is Williams or Jordan for Hill or various BAR permutations and McLaren for Button.

 

I admit to complete guilt of not reading his entire post! 



#97 Christophe77

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 16:17

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/113601

 

Hmmm, that's a confidence boost.... But can we thrust this info or is it to win over a sponsor? 

 

Anyway, I'll take back what I said earlier, I was a bit emotional after sunday...  But Merc is my second team  :cool:   

Not that this is relevant for this thead, so I'll just shut up about it.

 

So I dig this latest theory: They waited for Fallows to put them in a new aero direction, that didn't happen and so now it's all hands on deck to go after DF without him. Sounds very logical.

Would explain slow updates on aero front.



#98 bogi

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 16:30

I don't think he's an aero guy is he?

 

 

Yes he is, but no way former engineer with ''technical director'' title will work in design office.



#99 BillBald

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 16:49

 

The McLaren is a good car on a circuit like Bahrain, which places an emphasis on traction.

 

On lap 40, just before the Safety Car, Jenson had these cars in front of him (leaving out Rosberg and Ham):

Alonso, less than a second ahead, needing to pit again so in reality a pitstop behind

Hulkenburg, less than 5 seconds ahead

Perez, 7 seconds ahead

Bottas, had been 8 seconds ahead, pitted that lap and dropped a long way behind

 

So, the Force Indias were a little bit faster, 5 or 7 seconds in 40 laps doesn't seem like a huge margin to me. In previous stints, Jenson had been faster at the end of the stint, but I don't want to make any assumptions.

 

If the McLaren is as slow as you think, you must think Jenson was performing miracles that day.



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#100 Massa

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 17:39

So the car is fast ? So why they were lapped at China, and why they finish 40 seconds behind a FI at Sepang and 50 behind the Ferrari ? Even the Ferrari lapped Mclaren at China.. The car is as good as last year car, i see no progress and the team should thanks Mercedes for their engine. It's a shame that Mclaren is the slowest of all Mercedes powered team.