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Ferrari F14 T - Part III


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#801 Rikhart

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 23:40

Still Kimi's best test day all year...still more laps would have been better.

Indeed, and its really kinda sad when you realize this. I hope it was fruitful for him, he really needs it.



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#802 Seanspeed

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 07:45

Indeed, and its really kinda sad when you realize this. I hope it was fruitful for him, he really needs it.

He was fine in Barcelona?

#803 geGR

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 07:48

Indeed, and its really kinda sad when you realize this. I hope it was fruitful for him, he really needs it.

Not as sad as when you realize BOTH drivers stand no chance whatsoever given the pace of the car.  ;)



#804 boldhakka

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 08:37

He was fine in Barcelona?

 

Not necessarily. 



#805 Seanspeed

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 09:37

Not necessarily.

He was. He outqualified Alonso and was ok in the race.

He doesn't 'desperately' need time in the car. We're well beyond that now.

#806 boldhakka

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 09:42

He was. He outqualified Alonso and was ok in the race.

He doesn't 'desperately' need time in the car. We're well beyond that now.

 

The goal isn't to outqualify Alonso and be OK in the race. There are objective measures that he is trying to hit, including turn-in and front-end stability. So he isn't necessarily "fine" yet, we'll have to wait and see if he is happy with these aspects of the F14 T or if there is still room for improvement. 

 

I agree he doesn't desperately need time in the car. 



#807 sopa

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 11:52

The goal isn't to outqualify Alonso and be OK in the race. There are objective measures that he is trying to hit, including turn-in and front-end stability. So he isn't necessarily "fine" yet, we'll have to wait and see if he is happy with these aspects of the F14 T or if there is still room for improvement. 

 

I agree he doesn't desperately need time in the car. 

 

Doesn't a driver always have goals, which he wants to hit, what he wants from the car and get the best out of the car?

 

Even if on occasion a car feels like perfect, then the very next race on a different circuit with a different setup and new upgrades the car may again be "off" again from what the driver feels he needs to perform at his best.

 

I think the basic point is that there is never "mission completed" in adapting to a car. Otherwise you could end up waiting for your whole career to finally get a car "which suits you". But meantime you need to perform all the time anyway.



#808 boldhakka

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 11:55

Doesn't a driver always have goals, which he wants to hit, what he wants from the car and get the best out of the car?

 

Even if on occasion a car feels like perfect, then the very next race on a different circuit with a different setup and new upgrades the car may again be "off" again from what the driver feels he needs to perform at his best.

 

I think the basic point is that there is never "mission completed" in adapting to a car. Otherwise you could end up waiting for your whole career to finally get a car "which suits you". But meantime you need to perform all the time anyway.

 

Yeah, and?



#809 AngelaTifosi

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 12:02

Doesn't a driver always have goals, which he wants to hit, what he wants from the car and get the best out of the car?

 

Even if on occasion a car feels like perfect, then the very next race on a different circuit with a different setup and new upgrades the car may again be "off" again from what the driver feels he needs to perform at his best.

 

I think the basic point is that there is never "mission completed" in adapting to a car. Otherwise you could end up waiting for your whole career to finally get a car "which suits you". But meantime you need to perform all the time anyway.

 

 

It's endless of course, otherwise there's no need for Fps.

 

But the driver and engineers need to find the right direction so that they will not start from zero from 1 gp to another.

 

Edit:

 

Kimi was struggling in Fp3 with the handling, they made quite a major change to the car to get it into "Ok" state for quali. Which is why Fps is so crucial for Kimi.

 

Still the front was sliding (strange) as you could see from the onboard video. 


Edited by AngelaTifosi, 15 May 2014 - 12:04.


#810 Seanspeed

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 12:12

I agree he doesn't desperately need time in the car.

All I was getting at.

#811 camberley

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 17:01

We should not be surprised that Ferrari are doing so badly this year.

 

The writing was on the wall mid-way into the season last year. When we started 2013, I hoped that we would win the WDC, but it soon became apparent that our leadership and technical team had inferior process and that others would out develop us.

 

It was easy to predict even mid-last year that we would not even get to 2nd in either championships in 2014. The fundamental problem is that Ferrari does not have the right process to develop the car. Its not the tools (wind-tunnel etc) that are at fault and never were.

 

Pat Fry is to blame here as he came in and made a whole bunch of changes over many years and he made it worse.

 

Domenicali shares the blame because as the leader, he was supposed to manage and direct all the entities within the racing team. It was his responsiblity to manage and ensure that the different teams worked together to execute and that has failed miserably.He allowed Fry free reign and when it did not work, he did not make changes. If he kept believing the lies about the wind tunnel etc then it is his fault too.

 

There was never anything wrong with the wind-tunnel as they were using Toyota's as were other teams. It is the development  process that is faulty and until that is fixed we will continue to run in circles.

 

Pat Fry has been stubborn as a mule with the front pull-rod and Allison has been dead against it but Fry won the argument and we have pull-rod this year. Allison stepped back and refused to take ownership fo the car in the sense as to saying that he had input into the car. The pull-rod is one of the major contributing factors to the stability and traction, not to mention the difficulty in setup and making adjustements. No point in having Allison on the team if he cant contribute effectively.

 

Domenicali has been replaced. Now we have to see if Mattiaci can fix the process and get the different sub teams working effectively. For me, I am going to see if he fires Fry in the next two months or demotes him. That will be a good sign as it will indicate that he is getting a good read and is making decisions.He needs to ensure that Allison can take charge in the next two months else we will be lost for 2015 too.

 

 

Before the start of the year, I reported on the PU software issues before it was reported publicly anywhere

http://forums.autosp...22#entry6625669

 

Last year in October I said this - "We will not win a title next year. We will not even finish 2nd in either championship"

http://http://forums...35#entry6478090

 

and said that Dom and Fry need to be fired asap if we had to have any chance for 2014

http://http://forums...25#entry6454228

 

http://forums.autosp...dpost&p=6342793

 

and wrote off our chances

http://forums.autosp...dpost&p=6339091


Edited by camberley, 15 May 2014 - 17:04.


#812 Massa

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 17:19

Pat Fry has been stubborn as a mule with the front pull-rod and Allison has been dead against it but Fry won the argument and we have pull-rod this year. Allison stepped back and refused to take ownership fo the car in the sense as to saying that he had input into the car. The pull-rod is one of the major contributing factors to the stability and traction, not to mention the difficulty in setup and making adjustements. No point in having Allison on the team if he cant contribute effectively.

I am going to see if he fires Fry in the next two months or demotes him. That will be a good sign as it will indicate that he is getting a good read and is making decisions.

 

You work for Ferrari ?


Edited by Massa, 15 May 2014 - 17:19.


#813 grunge

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 19:31

Well our competitors sure seem confident.

"We are closer to RedBull now",Gerard Lopez.

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/113965

"We can beat Ferrari" Massa

http://m.crash.net/f...at-ferrari.html

And

"Im confident Newey will stay with RB" Horner

http://www.planetf1....Ferrari-rumours

#814 brzy

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 20:24

Interesting read...
https://mobile.twitt...786070865428480

#815 AngelaTifosi

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 16:30

 

Our sources saying Ferrari are preparing an engine boost for Canada which they tested in Spain. Aero updates delayed until Austria. #F1

 



#816 Ferrari2183

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 16:50

Oh dear.

#817 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 17:17

 

 

Pathetic. Unfortunately, the team has become a laughing stock. 


Edited by ConsiderAndGo, 16 May 2014 - 17:17.


#818 Ferrari2183

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 17:41

So, since the season has started the only aero updates which have been raced are a rear wing, a monkey seat and reprofiled sidepods.

#819 Cyanide

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 17:49

So, since the season has started the only aero updates which have been raced are a rear wing, a monkey seat and reprofiled sidepods.

 

Likely they'll still introduce the new diffuser they've been testing in Spain. 

 

But yeah, pretty weak development on the aero side thus far. 



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#820 Ferrari2183

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 17:56

Likely they'll still introduce the new diffuser they've been testing in Spain.

But yeah, pretty weak development on the aero side thus far.

Development has been piss poor. The team simply lacks leadership and by that I mean department heads whom can steer development in the right direction.

Right now it seems like they're a fart in perfume factory.

#821 Gintonious

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 18:02

brokenrecord.jpg



#822 TomNokoe

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 21:14

So the huge Monaco update has been stalled? Ouch was hoping for more of a fight

#823 turssi

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 21:59


Boosted engine or busted engine?

#824 Menace

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 23:13

That certainly doesn't sound promising.  Sigh...



#825 AngelaTifosi

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 01:30

Development has been piss poor. The team simply lacks leadership and by that I mean department heads whom can steer development in the right direction.

Right now it seems like they're a fart in perfume factory.

 

There's no development..........



#826 George Costanza

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 02:02

Development has been piss poor. The team simply lacks leadership and by that I mean department heads whom can steer development in the right direction.

Right now it seems like they're a fart in perfume factory.

 

Quite frankly, I think this would be a challenge for anyone to do, except for perhaps Ross Brawn himself.



#827 AngelaTifosi

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 07:51

 the car is so sh*T that the team struggle to illustrate the development plan.

 

Judging by Gene comment stating the current chassis has reach its end with development potential said it all.

 

But the delay of new chassis development now is really intrigue.

 

It seems that the team prioritize internal political struggle among top guns eyeing top position rather than the car developments.


Edited by AngelaTifosi, 17 May 2014 - 07:59.


#828 grunge

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 07:55

More and more indications that theyve given up on this season..

Which doesnt sound very logical as theoretically they should be able to carry all thwleir development work this year fowards into next season...

or maybe theyre just piling all update plans up until the end of the seaskn and into the winter testing.

Pretty disappointing whatever the reason is.

Edited by grunge, 17 May 2014 - 07:56.


#829 quasi C

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 08:28

http://www.omnicorse...stione-sportiva

 

Montezemolo has allocated more money and resources to the GeS. OC speculates that they will strengthen ties with companies such as Honeywell and Magneti Marelli. 

 

Turrini says the budget has been a little restricted since the end of 2006. Also apparently Newey's "no" to LDM was a little less categorical than usual this time. It was still a no however. 



#830 Jovanotti

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 08:34

Yeah just keep throwing more money at the problem :up:



#831 Cyanide

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 10:12

Ferrari wants Brawn, Bell and Newey

 

 

Bob Bell could be the next piece of the puzzle, as Ferrari looks to end its slump and return to the top of formula one.

 

Already reported by multiple authoritative sources is that the fabled Maranello team is prepared to 'break the bank' and sign Red Bull's Adrian Newey, who is already paid a rumoured $12 million per year.

 

"Ferrari badly want Adrian Newey," a Ferrari source told the Guardian newspaper.

 

"I don't know whether they have talked to him yet, but if not, they will."

 

But Red Bull team boss Christian Horner said the 55-year-old is happy at Milton Keynes.

 

"He has made his feelings clear to me about the team," Horner commented after the outbreak of the latest rumours.

"The speculation is purely that. You can understand why Ferrari would be looking."

 

Newey, however, may not be Ferrari's only target. Ross Brawn has already been linked with a return to Italy, and now the Spanish newspaper El Mundo Deportivo claims Bob Bell is another possible recruit.

 

It was announced last month that Bell will be leaving his role as dominant Mercedes' technical director, the German team saying he is seeking "new challenges" elsewhere.

 

"It is rumoured Brawn, Bell and Newey could bring order to Ferrari's technical department," said El Mundo Deportivo.

 

According to Italy's La Gazzetta dello Sport, Ferrari is also close to acknowledging that - given Mercedes' utter dominance - "It is already time" to begin thinking about the 2015 season.

 

It is believed president Luca di Montezemolo had said Barcelona, Monaco and Montreal are key races before Ferrari must decide if focusing on the F14-T's successor should be the main objective.

 

Also rumoured is that Ferrari's turbo V6 engine project for 2015, codenamed 666, is currently more advanced than it normally would be at this time of year.

 

Yet another rumour is that Fernando Alonso has finally lost patience waiting for a title-winning Ferrari, and is now casting eyes at Mercedes.

 

Mercedes team chairman Niki Lauda, however, is quoted by Speed Week: "We have two top drivers already, both going for the win. So what would we do with Alonso?"

 

Source: http://www.grandprix...ns/ns28010.html

 

Sounds like utter bullshit, especially the bolded part. But hey, crap news is better than no news, right?


Edited by Cyanide, 17 May 2014 - 10:13.


#832 Cyanide

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 10:25

2cp1.jpg



#833 Szoelloe

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 11:01

Posted Today, 12:59

Cyanide, on 17 May 2014 - 12:12, said:snapback.png

 

Sounds like utter bullshit, especially the bolded part. But hey, crap news is better than no news, right?

 

 

Indeed, Newey will not leave England allegedly, Bell is still working at Mercedes every race so far, which strongly indicates rumors about him leaving F1 for another series is true. Brawn is a possibility, but I am slightly skeptical about that too.



#834 Cyanide

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 11:44

 

Posted Today, 12:59

Cyanide, on 17 May 2014 - 12:12, said:snapback.png

 

Indeed, Newey will not leave England allegedly, Bell is still working at Mercedes every race so far, which strongly indicates rumors about him leaving F1 for another series is true. Brawn is a possibility, but I am slightly skeptical about that too.

 

 

I actually think Newey might be available and willing this time if presented with the right offer. Then again, I have no clue where that would leave James Allison - I still think he's the most valuable asset to the team right now and in time he will deliver results. 

 

About Brawn, no clue really. The story about him going on a holiday factory tour at Ferrari is complete BS in my opinion. He was probably offered the spot of TP but whether he accepted or not is really anybody's guess.  


Edited by Cyanide, 17 May 2014 - 11:44.


#835 blacky

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 13:24

Then again, I have no clue where that would leave James Allison - I still think he's the most valuable asset to the team right now and in time he will deliver results.  

 

Yes, Mr. Allison is very valuable. Last year they brought a lot of new parts for the gp's which didn't work, this year TD Allison says even before gp's "new parts are delayed". A good strategy to save time on friday's, they don't have to sort out the new parts on evenings and can fully concentrate on the right setup. :clap:



#836 aray

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 14:03

 

Sounds like utter bullshit, especially the bolded part. But hey, crap news is better than no news, right?

 

for once i agree with you.... :lol:



#837 AngelaTifosi

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 17:59

monaco....worst track for ferrari where balance and traction are keys.



#838 Kimble

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 19:54

if we are brutally honest it was only the todt/brawn era where Ferrari have really delivered in the last 20 years.  Kimi managed to nab a championship at the end of that period but since then it's been the usual catalogue of politics and LDM 'pressure'.  They need Brawn badly, otherwise they are doomed!



#839 Hellenic tifosi

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 21:02

if we are brutally honest it was only the todt/brawn era where Ferrari have really delivered in the last 20 years.  Kimi managed to nab a championship at the end of that period but since then it's been the usual catalogue of politics and LDM 'pressure'.  They need Brawn badly, otherwise they are doomed!

 

Practically, in 2007 Ferrari was still operating under the previous system.



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#840 Massa

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 21:10

I'm not mad, because since Spain i expect nothing good for the team. I think we will not be in the top 10 at Monaco, neither in Quali or in the race. I will watch the race, but only to see the Ferrari lapped. We are waiting for 5 years for a change, and we see nothing good; it's time to rebuild this team, and for achieve this, we need some very bad result like Mclaren, some race with 0 points. Some 12th and 13th place on merit.

 

For the first time of my life, i have no faith on the team. Zero, nada. And to be honest, it's feels very good to not expect anything from the team, to not believe and feeling bad after the race because you were in the hope for a good result.

 

So now, i don't care if they can't updates the car, don't care if they are slow. With Mclaren they are the laughing stock of the field, and i don't care anymore.


Edited by Massa, 17 May 2014 - 21:11.


#841 Seanspeed

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 22:20

if we are brutally honest it was only the todt/brawn era where Ferrari have really delivered in the last 20 years.  Kimi managed to nab a championship at the end of that period but since then it's been the usual catalogue of politics and LDM 'pressure'.  They need Brawn badly, otherwise they are doomed!

I refuse to believe this whole 'there's only one person can save the team' sort of thinking.

I think change is needed obviously, but saying that we absolutely *need* Ross Brawn is excessive.

#842 4MEN

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 23:21

I refuse to believe this whole 'there's only one person can save the team' sort of thinking.

I think change is needed obviously, but saying that we absolutely *need* Ross Brawn is excessive.

I think Brawn is the kind of person who knows to gather "other persons" to save a team.



#843 eronrules

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 01:13

I think Brawn is the kind of person who knows to gather "other persons" to save a team.

in 3/4 years ... with considerable doe at disposal. neither he nor Adrian can bring short term performance gain ... as a matter of fact, nothing will.

 

i'll still say, till the day they decides to establish a base in the F1 silicon valley (i.e UK) and recruit extensively, they'll continue to struggle. 



#844 Seanspeed

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 08:29

I think Brawn is the kind of person who knows to gather "other persons" to save a team.

Sure. But is he really the only person on the earth who can do this?

#845 Cyanide

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 08:50

Sure. But is he really the only person on the earth who can do this?

 

He seems to have done it better than Domenicali, that's for sure. 



#846 REDalert

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 11:14

More and more indications that theyve given up on this season..

Which doesnt sound very logical as theoretically they should be able to carry all thwleir development work this year fowards into next season...

or maybe theyre just piling all update plans up until the end of the seaskn and into the winter testing.

Pretty disappointing whatever the reason is.

Maybe they are building completely new car to next season. if they have found out that they need different kind of chassis and current on can not be fixed with upgrades.



#847 mzvztag

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 11:37

Practically, in 2007 Ferrari was still operating under the previous system.


Yes, in 2007 and 2008 Ferrari benefitted from the momentum gained in 2000-2004, the rules were stable so they simply had the best car for these circumstances. Then, with the big change in 2009, everything fell apart and never recovered since.

And, to be honest, I see no light at the end of the tunnel at all.

#848 mzvztag

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 11:47

We should not be surprised that Ferrari are doing so badly this year.

The writing was on the wall mid-way into the season last year. When we started 2013, I hoped that we would win the WDC, but it soon became apparent that our leadership and technical team had inferior process and that others would out develop us.

It was easy to predict even mid-last year that we would not even get to 2nd in either championships in 2014. The fundamental problem is that Ferrari does not have the right process to develop the car. Its not the tools (wind-tunnel etc) that are at fault and never were.

Pat Fry is to blame here as he came in and made a whole bunch of changes over many years and he made it worse.

Domenicali shares the blame because as the leader, he was supposed to manage and direct all the entities within the racing team. It was his responsiblity to manage and ensure that the different teams worked together to execute and that has failed miserably.He allowed Fry free reign and when it did not work, he did not make changes. If he kept believing the lies about the wind tunnel etc then it is his fault too.

There was never anything wrong with the wind-tunnel as they were using Toyota's as were other teams. It is the development process that is faulty and until that is fixed we will continue to run in circles.

Pat Fry has been stubborn as a mule with the front pull-rod and Allison has been dead against it but Fry won the argument and we have pull-rod this year. Allison stepped back and refused to take ownership fo the car in the sense as to saying that he had input into the car. The pull-rod is one of the major contributing factors to the stability and traction, not to mention the difficulty in setup and making adjustements. No point in having Allison on the team if he cant contribute effectively.

Domenicali has been replaced. Now we have to see if Mattiaci can fix the process and get the different sub teams working effectively. For me, I am going to see if he fires Fry in the next two months or demotes him. That will be a good sign as it will indicate that he is getting a good read and is making decisions.He needs to ensure that Allison can take charge in the next two months else we will be lost for 2015 too.


Before the start of the year, I reported on the PU software issues before it was reported publicly anywhere
http://forums.autosp...22#entry6625669

Last year in October I said this - "We will not win a title next year. We will not even finish 2nd in either championship"
http://http://forums...35#entry6478090

and said that Dom and Fry need to be fired asap if we had to have any chance for 2014
http://http://forums...25#entry6454228

http://forums.autosp...dpost&p=6342793

and wrote off our chances
http://forums.autosp...dpost&p=6339091


Great post.

#849 Cyanide

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 12:17

Current Ferrari Chief Powertrain Engineer, Jean-Jacques His has been transferred to F1 department to solve Ferrari's PU issues. #F1

 

Jacques His had previously worked on the Ferrari V12s and V6s in the 1980s before being transferred to Maserati. #F1 #Formula1

 

Anybody know who this guy is or what he achieved? I never heard of him.



#850 dreamer

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 12:28

 

Current Ferrari Chief Powertrain Engineer, Jean-Jacques His has been transferred to F1 department to solve Ferrari's PU issues. #F1

 

Jacques His had previously worked on the Ferrari V12s and V6s in the 1980s before being transferred to Maserati. #F1 #Formula1

 

Anybody know who this guy is or what he achieved? I never heard of him.

 

 

Found this  http://www.grandprix...ref-hisjea.html  and this http://summit.fiains...nts/His_bio.pdf


Edited by dreamer, 18 May 2014 - 12:30.