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Ferrari F14 T - Part III


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#1651 Tuxy

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 13:39

Make every race a test session.  Who cares, Ferrari are not going to recover.  To quote Ricky Bobby's dad, "If you're not first, your last".

 

Which of these teams would be satisfied with 2nd or 3rd?  Teams that are coming from the mid-back of the field.  Top teams even if they are struggling should only be satisfied with winning.

 

Winning either championship is IMPOSSIBLE this year, so nothing short of winning is acceptable.  Turn up the wick, bolt on new experimental part, who cares we they DNF.  Ferrari struggle to find pace without physical testing; might as well treat every race as a simulation.

 

Sponsors will get their exposure, fans breathe new life into their delusions that next year the team will turn things around, Luca D, can avoid hair loss; erectile dysfunction via anxiety.

 

Oh and Ferrari should change their livery to canary yellow.  Discard tradition, embrace their short-falls, pursue perfection, steal the glory.  

 

Give poor Fred the chariot he deserves.


Edited by Tuxy, 11 June 2014 - 13:45.


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#1652 Astro

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 13:42

As a way of comparison with other teams, Ferrari is not in such a bad shape as it seems. Of all the teams with Mercedes engines, except Mercedes itself, only the Williams were showing better pace than Ferrari despite its huge engine disadvantage. If with such a poor engine Ferrari can be ahead of most of the teams in a track like Canada, imagine how much closer they would be to Mercedes with a similar engine.

 

Regarding aero, we can see that Red Bull is still ahead. Nevertheless, Ferrari has Allison, the only person who has been able to design a car that rivaled in some areas RBR's. In fact, the main reason Lotus lost competitiveness last year was because Pirelli recanted after few races and brought harder tires. The RBR was too hard on them, while the Lotus was much more balanced aerodynamically. It has to be emphasized: Allison beat Newey at his own game with the same engine and a fraction of the budget. That should give us some reasons to stay positive. After all, it is not Maranello's fault that the dumb rules of F1 only allow one engine upgrade per year. It is like having only one attempt at pole vaulting after a four years training for the Olympics. Even if Ferrari were to bring the whole company to the CERN, they still wouldn't be able to do much about this championship.

 

Now at least, Ferrari knows where the bar is for engine and aero design, the main areas of performance. They already has the budget, the brains, and the drivers. So as frustrating as it sounds, I think Ferrari has it right. Despite all the talk of moving mountains and oceans to bring Ferrari back to their greatness, the main thing left to do is to work hard, *cough* remain calm*cough* and wait for the stars to align  :p .



#1653 George Costanza

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 03:31

Alonso and Räikkönen now know what Alesi felt during all those years at Ferrari.

 

Absolutely....



#1654 Seanspeed

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 08:10

Alonso says Red Bull's victory in Canada gives Ferrari hope? The guy is living in cloud cuckoo land. There is absolutely nothing to suggest Ferrari are capable of making the kind of improvements RB have made since winter. Ferrari are standing still at best.

He's just saying it leaves hope that a victory this year is possible under the right circumstances. Basically, there could be other opportunities where Mercedes has problems.

#1655 DrEvil

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 09:55

He's just saying it leaves hope that a victory this year is possible under the right circumstances. Basically, there could be other opportunities where Mercedes has problems.

 

Yes, more wins for Red Bull, haha.



#1656 boldhakka

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 09:58

Newey:

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/114405


He is worried that plans to lock down F1's power unit designs over the next few years with a full-on design freeze could result in one car maker being left with a permanent advantage.



#1657 ViMaMo

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 11:37

If you take into consideration the changing regulations, Aldo never stood out.

2009 - 1 win

2010 - 5 wins

2011 - 1 win

 

That's an achievement? 

 

Pat Fry is turning out to be mediocre too. 

2012 - 3 wins

2013 - 2 wins

2014 - 0 wins yet.



#1658 Seanspeed

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 13:04

Newey:
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/114405

I would honestly lose quite a bit of interest in the sport if that happens.

#1659 Tuxy

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 14:18

I would honestly lose quite a bit of interest in the sport if that happens.

 

I can't believe they would be so stupid to implement this.

 

It's too restrictive as is.   F1 is strangling itself and starved of oxygen.  No wonder the rules make no sense.

 

:down:  :down:  :down:  



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#1660 Timstr11

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 16:33

The unraced Mercedes/RedBullesque rear end with a wider top body. Not seen it from these angles before. Source: AMuS.

 

Ferrari-Technik-GP-Kanada-2014-fotoshowB

 

Ferrari-Technik-GP-Kanada-2014-fotoshowB



#1661 Astro

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 17:07

 

While I agree with what Newey says, I think he is being disingenuous. He must know the FIA is using technical rules to control costs because the big teams, among them RBR, refuse to accept budget caps. Maybe if they agreed to a cap, rules could be relaxed. Instead, they want to relax the rules while maintaining their budget.

 

104403-bill-murray-eats-cake-gif-Imgu-Ok



#1662 quasi C

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 17:40

Ferrari is making some changes to the engine dept., just internal reorganisation.  Mercedes' Andy Cowell refused an offer from Maranello as stated already above. Lewis Hamilton was spotted at Maranello yesterday but there's nothing untoward about it, rumour is he's just adding a LaFerrari to his supercar collection. Gazzetta is the source on both.



#1663 Kenstate

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 17:51

As a way of comparison with other teams, Ferrari is not in such a bad shape as it seems. Of all the teams with Mercedes engines, except Mercedes itself, only the Williams were showing better pace than Ferrari despite its huge engine disadvantage. If with such a poor engine Ferrari can be ahead of most of the teams in a track like Canada, imagine how much closer they would be to Mercedes with a similar engine.

 

Regarding aero, we can see that Red Bull is still ahead. Nevertheless, Ferrari has Allison, the only person who has been able to design a car that rivaled in some areas RBR's. In fact, the main reason Lotus lost competitiveness last year was because Pirelli recanted after few races and brought harder tires. The RBR was too hard on them, while the Lotus was much more balanced aerodynamically. It has to be emphasized: Allison beat Newey at his own game with the same engine and a fraction of the budget. That should give us some reasons to stay positive. After all, it is not Maranello's fault that the dumb rules of F1 only allow one engine upgrade per year. It is like having only one attempt at pole vaulting after a four years training for the Olympics. Even if Ferrari were to bring the whole company to the CERN, they still wouldn't be able to do much about this championship.

 

Now at least, Ferrari knows where the bar is for engine and aero design, the main areas of performance. They already has the budget, the brains, and the drivers. So as frustrating as it sounds, I think Ferrari has it right. Despite all the talk of moving mountains and oceans to bring Ferrari back to their greatness, the main thing left to do is to work hard, *cough* remain calm*cough* and wait for the stars to align  :p .

 

isn't it still pat fry running the show though? I don't know, the entire organization just doesn't seem to have the cohesion necessary. I remember reading somewhere that James Allison was saying how ferrari needs to change its approach to deadlines a bit, to maximize creative freedom. But strict deadlines was kinda pat fry's thing at mclaren so not everybody seems to be on the same page. Too many cooks in the kitchen.......well you know



#1664 Kenstate

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 17:57

If you take into consideration the changing regulations, Aldo never stood out.

2009 - 1 win

2010 - 5 wins

2011 - 1 win

 

That's an achievement? 

 

Pat Fry is turning out to be mediocre too. 

2012 - 3 wins

2013 - 2 wins

2014 - 0 wins yet.

 

If you go by win totals i guess. But 2010 was the last good car and costa was the one who designed it. And judging how fast the 2 last recent merc cars have been, costa seems to know what he's doing. the 3 wins attributed to pat fry from 2012 were all kind of attirition/wet weather affected wins, not based on pure speed.



#1665 DavidHeath461

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 18:23

The 2010 car was great mechanically. Good traction, good breaking and good at riding bumps/kerbs. Aerodynamically it was still quite a bit behind the red bull.

Ever since costa left the Ferrari's have had mediocre traction and its hurt them a lot.

#1666 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 18:46

Mattiacci: We never approached Newey



#1667 Kingshark

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 18:50

What?  :confused:



#1668 Frank

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 18:59

Pat Fry was never a technical director material prior joining Ferrari. Early active suspension and race engineer for Coulthard thats all.

#1669 race addicted

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 20:12

Is that sour grapes from Mattiacci? It was bandied about "everywhere", that Ferrari had courted him.



#1670 Seanspeed

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 20:19

Again, people are placing way too much importance on single people.

#1671 Cyanide

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 20:29

Yeah, pfff..Who needs Newey? Certainly not Ferrari, they have updates that are working every time. 



#1672 Jovanotti

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 20:34

Peeps, World Cup's on :)

#1673 race addicted

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 20:35

There's no reason to pretend that, given a free choice, not every team would've signed Newey if they could.



#1674 Cyanide

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 20:37

Again, people are placing way too much importance on single people.

 

Yeah, I mean it's not like single people such as Steve Jobs or Ross Brawn have better ideas than a good batch of individuals. 

 

Ferrari engineers might have some good ideas, but someone like Newey might have better ideas. It's as simple as that and single people of that caliber do matter. 



#1675 race addicted

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 20:39

Yeah, I mean it's not like single people such as Steve Jobs or Ross Brawn have better ideas than a good batch of individuals. 

 

Ferrari engineers might have some good ideas, but someone like Newey might have better ideas. It's as simple as that and single people of that caliber do matter. 

Absolutely, and in addition to that, he's an inspirational figure, and also very good when it comes to leading the group of guys below him.



#1676 Cyanide

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 20:43

Mattiacci's reaction is priceless. 

 

It's like saying: "well, we didn't win because we never tried to. let others enjoy some victory"

 

Italian pride at its finest. 

 

It must hurt a lot that they couldn't attract him with every possible offer. They were once the finest representation of "money can buy everything". Not today, though. 


Edited by Cyanide, 12 June 2014 - 20:47.


#1677 Jovanotti

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 20:58

I'd hope a manager of Mattiacci's calibre would stand above this kind of behaviour.

Edited by Jovanotti, 12 June 2014 - 20:58.


#1678 sheepgobba

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 22:21

Ferrari is making some changes to the engine dept., just internal reorganisation.  Mercedes' Andy Cowell refused an offer from Maranello as stated already above. Lewis Hamilton was spotted at Maranello yesterday but there's nothing untoward about it, rumour is he's just adding a LaFerrari to his supercar collection. Gazzetta is the source on both.

 

I somehow doubt he is buying a LaFerrari. 



#1679 George Costanza

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 23:45

 

Mercedes could be dominant for a long time, then.



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#1680 George Costanza

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 23:48

If you take into consideration the changing regulations, Aldo never stood out.

2009 - 1 win

2010 - 5 wins

2011 - 1 win

 

That's an achievement? 

 

Pat Fry is turning out to be mediocre too. 

2012 - 3 wins

2013 - 2 wins

2014 - 0 wins yet.

 

Aldo was at Ferrari since 1995 before he left in 2011. He played a huge role in the 1998-2005 Ferraris that were quite fast and became championship cars.

 

So yeah, Aldo is much more successful than Pat Fry ever will be. Granted Pat had the 2005 McLaren and the 2007 McLaren, but Aldo's more successful with Schumacher and Co.


Edited by George Costanza, 12 June 2014 - 23:49.


#1681 shonguiz

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 02:51

He's talking about Aldo the TD not Aldo the designer.



#1682 Massa

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 16:23

Allison is working full time on the next car, the codename of the car is 666. Pat Fry will have to give him some rapport about the updates for the F14, but Allison will not be there in race weekend.



#1683 Cyanide

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 16:58

Allison is working full time on the next car, the codename of the car is 666. Pat Fry will have to give him some rapport about the updates for the F14, but Allison will not be there in race weekend.

 

I hope that codename stands for the fact that we'll be running the full 6 cylinders next year. Cause so far we look like we're running on 5. 

 

Also, is that number supposed to be intimidating? Geez. 



#1684 f1RacingForever

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 17:44

Allison is working full time on the next car, the codename of the car is 666. Pat Fry will have to give him some rapport about the updates for the F14, but Allison will not be there in race weekend.

Where did you hear this? I hope it's true. This year is already lost. Better to focus on next year.



#1685 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 19:16

The 666 reminds me of this rumour, as far as I knew there never was a hint of confirmation, unless Massa has more:

http://www.grandprix...bell-and-newey/

 

Edit: According to Paddocktalk this comes from Omnisport:

http://paddocktalk.c...ory-253937.html


Edited by KnucklesAgain, 13 June 2014 - 19:18.


#1686 pRy

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 20:11

I'll pop this here rather than start another thread.. here's the yearly quit threat:

 

http://online.wsj.co...campaign=buffer


Edited by pRy, 13 June 2014 - 20:11.


#1687 ApexMouse

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 20:30

Wrong link dude! Points for a fellow redditor though. 



#1688 PayasYouRace

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 20:31

That link is broken pRy. But I'd just seen that

 

http://online.wsj.co...campaign=buffer



#1689 Jovanotti

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 20:47

"Formula One isn't working," Montezemolo said. "It's declining because the FIA have forgotten that people watch the racing for the excitement. Nobody watches racing for the efficiency, come on."

Guess you missed last race then Luchino. What a cheap argument.

#1690 BiH

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 21:05

"Formula One isn't working," Montezemolo said. "It's declining because the FIA have forgotten that people watch the racing for the excitement. Nobody watches racing for the efficiency, come on."

Guess you missed last race then Luchino. What a cheap argument.

 

Montezemolo always has these rants.............

 

I think tmmrw's announcement that they are going to LeMans might be interesting, since committing to both F1 and WEC will stretch Ferrari big time.


Edited by BiH, 13 June 2014 - 21:06.


#1691 PayasYouRace

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 21:50

Montezemolo always has these rants.............

 

I think tmmrw's announcement that they are going to LeMans might be interesting, since committing to both F1 and WEC will stretch Ferrari big time.

 

Well except for this bit:

 

'Of course," Montezemolo said, "we cannot do sports-car racing and Formula One. It's not possible.'

 

Also, it might not be for a while yet anyway.

 

'Montezemolo, 66, suggested that his company could instead pursue endurance racing of the type practiced at Le Mans, perhaps as soon as 2020.'


Edited by PayasYouRace, 13 June 2014 - 21:50.


#1692 blacky

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 08:00

Temperatures in Austria have fallen now and there are only about 18-24 degrees predicted for the next weekend. So we will see if it was true that the engine cover etc. hadn't been on the car due to the temperatures or for other (performance) reasons. The two tracks are similiar, so the updates for Montreal will also work for Austria.



#1693 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 10:05

[moved to appropriate thread]


Edited by KnucklesAgain, 14 June 2014 - 13:30.


#1694 Seanspeed

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 11:27

Yeah, I mean it's not like single people such as Steve Jobs or Ross Brawn have better ideas than a good batch of individuals. 
 
Ferrari engineers might have some good ideas, but someone like Newey might have better ideas. It's as simple as that and single people of that caliber do matter.

Adrian Newey is an exception, not the rule.

#1695 Massa

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 19:28

My source for the 666 project was this :

 

http://www.nextgen-a...-666,77938.html



#1696 DrF

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 06:59

Sadly. It's to the hospitality suite.


Another bucket to cry into?

#1697 aguri

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 07:05

My source for the 666 project was this :

 

http://www.nextgen-a...-666,77938.html

 

So Allison is in charge on next years car, while Fry runs this years car. Interesting.

 

I'm not a Ferrari fan but I want to see Alonso win another WDC. Next year will surely be his last chance in Red.



#1698 masa90

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 08:55

Hoping for better 2015. Although Montezomols rant is mostly off he has quite good insights in the area about freezed uppgrades etc. (view shared also with Newey etc...)

 

Lets hope Allison designs another great car like his last Lotuses and gives Kimi and Fernando the tools they deserve to fight for the championship.



#1699 Ncedi

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 14:32

How are you guys feeling about Austria?

 

Almost all the corners (given there aren't a lot) are fast and flowing and we seem to be decent in those. Also there's only really one corner where traction is at a premium.

 

Obivously the straights are somewhat of a concern but if we bring the Canada update (and it works like it seemed to in Canada), I think we could be up for a decent result.

 

Looking forward to the grand prix though, this is a fantastic track!


Edited by Ncedi, 17 June 2014 - 14:33.


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#1700 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 15:43

Problem is, the cars inherently sh**e. My bet is scrapping for points once more and not a lot else.