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Ferrari F14 T - Part III


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#2551 Seanspeed

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Posted Yesterday, 09:42

If it was so simple they wouldn't be in this position. Seriously what are you on about? When you have an opportunity to add valuable pieces to your team, you do so. Its just logical. You want to best person for the job period. Why do you see this as such a problem?

He's being sarcastic and running into the ground his notion that people here have double standards because they want Ferrari to improve, thinking that its 'excuse making'.

Basically, he's thoroughly embarrassing himself.

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#2552 f1RacingForever

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Posted Yesterday, 10:05

Their respective fans weren't making excuses about it were they? Were McLaren fans constantly asking for Prodromou and only then they'll bring success for Lewis? They got on with it and delivered a great chassis (in 2012 for example) without clamouring for star hires in any department. Same for Lotus and Williams.

Scuderia fans on the other hand, go on and on about finding faults with existing people or demanding LdM to throw money at some star signing on the other. And then, lo and behold, Fernando will have the car of his dreams. Instead of making these excuses, Scuderia fans should just get behind the current team and encourage them to get on with it and deliver a half-decent car, like Williams have done this year. Fernando will do the rest.


This is not true. Macca fans were generally displeased with whitmarsh and wanted to see him go in favor of Dennis. Some thought he preferred button. To this day they critical of Sam Michael. Red bull fans obviously haven't had much to complain about recently. You can bet when rb starts losing fans will beg for newey to come back.

#2553 boldhakka

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Posted Yesterday, 10:11

This is not true. Macca fans were generally displeased with whitmarsh and wanted to see him go in favor of Dennis. Some thought he preferred button. To this day they critical of Sam Michael. Red bull fans obviously haven't had much to complain about recently. You can bet when rb starts losing fans will beg for newey to come back.

 

Those were mostly Lewis fans. 

 

Look man, the Scuderia just needs to get on with it and deliver a good car. Enough with asking for Brawn, getting rid of Tombazis and all of that jazz. There are several other teams delivering better chassis with less. The Ferrari racing team really need to put their head down, get on with it, be more creative, and deliver a fast car. It's possible because several other teams are doing it without any special TPs and other excuses. 

 

Maybe FIAT should buy into a team (perhaps Williams) and make it their B-team, they must be getting tired of the excuses from the Scuderia and their fans when they could get better results for less from a number of other teams. Fernando would love this. 


Edited by boldhakka, Yesterday, 10:18.


#2554 discover23

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Posted Yesterday, 11:35

I think I've mentioned it before. I don't have a problem with the Ferrari race team per se. I do have a problem with their fans who go on and on about the Scuderia race team only being able to deliver if Brawn is signed as TP, making excuses about Tombazis still being around, and calling to LdM for even more transfers form the road car division etc. The fans of Williams and other teams don't make excuses on these matters because their team has gotten on with what they have and delivered a good chassis for their drivers without asking for all of the planets and stars to align.

You lost if completely today.. What happened?


It is the teams job [Management] to find the best resources available for the job. That is what managers do.. See who works and who does not and make changes..

The driver has to drive the car that the team produces. We are talking about a multi driver team and not a single driver team. If one driver is performing fantastic with the same car, you use that performance as a baseline .. Therefore the other driver who is doing poorly must either raise his game or management can decide to get a better resource for the job.

Is that simple.

Edited by discover23, Yesterday, 11:39.


#2555 boldhakka

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Posted Yesterday, 11:44

It is the teams job [Management] to find the best resources available for the job. That is what managers do.. See who works and who does not and make changes..

 

It's the teams job [Management] to get the most out of the existing resources available for the job. Not to go crying for more money and talent every few years and string along the drivers for another contract extension. That is what managers do at other teams who don't have the luxury of running to their corporate owners with loose purse strings and transferable talent. And yet those other teams deliver better chassis. 

 

 

If one driver is performing fantastic with the same car, you use that performance as a baseline .. Therefore the other driver who is doing poorly must either up his game or management can decide to get a better resource for the job.

 

If one or more teams is building better chassis than the Ferrrari race team within the same regulations and even less resources (Williams now, Lotus last couple of years), then the existing team needs to up its game or the corporate owners should buy into a B-team and get better results for less money and less excuses and less whining from the fans. 

 

 

Is that simple.

 

Indeed. Both driver and race team need to get on with what they have. 


Edited by boldhakka, Yesterday, 11:55.


#2556 Cacarella

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Posted Yesterday, 13:04

I'm confused....

 

Is all this bickering really just about Kimi sucking?



#2557 Seanspeed

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Posted Yesterday, 13:28

I'm confused....
 
Is all this bickering really just about Kimi sucking?

Indirectly yes. Boldhakka is simply acting bitter at the moment.

Its textbook 'deflection' defense mechanism.

Edited by Seanspeed, Yesterday, 13:31.


#2558 ApexMouse

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Posted Yesterday, 13:30

zzzzzz



#2559 boldhakka

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Posted Yesterday, 13:45

I'm confused....

 

Is all this bickering really just about Kimi sucking?

 

Not just. It's also about the Ferrari race team sucking. 

 

The gist is that if there's an expectation for Kimi to "get on with it" without asking for custom parts from Ferrari (like Fernando does without custom parts), then the Ferrari racing team also need to "get on with it" without asking for custom TPs from LdM (like Williams have delivered without custom Team Principals). 

 

Driver and race team need to get on with what they have. Simple. 


Edited by boldhakka, Yesterday, 13:57.


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#2560 VolvoT5

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Posted Yesterday, 13:48

I think Ferrari just suck overall at the moment.  And sadly I don't think that will change until at least 2016.  They are SO far behind it is hard to make up 1.5 sec a lap really. 



#2561 boldhakka

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Posted Yesterday, 13:56

I think Ferrari just suck overall at the moment.  And sadly I don't think that will change until at least 2016.  They are SO far behind it is hard to make up 1.5 sec a lap really. 

 

Pretty much. Others are doing better with fewer resources and existing resources. The existing Ferrari race team need to get on with it and be more creative and get more out of the regs like their competitors. 



#2562 VolvoT5

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Posted Yesterday, 14:05

Pretty much. Others are doing better with fewer resources and existing resources. The existing Ferrari race team need to get on with it and be more creative and get more out of the regs like their competitors. 

Yep.   Also, people have talked (semi seriously) about Ferrari getting the likes of Newey or Brawn in the game.  However I don't think just bringing in one guy will help, nor will changing the drivers.   Given the lack of success for such a long time I think  it is the whole team and the whole approach to things that must change. 


Edited by VolvoT5, Yesterday, 14:07.


#2563 boldhakka

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Posted Yesterday, 14:10

Yep.   Also, people have talked (semi seriously) about Ferrari getting the likes of Newey or Brawn in the game.  However I don't think just bringing in one guy will help, nor will changing the drivers.   Given the lack of success for such a long time I think  it is the whole team and the whole approach to things that must change. 

 

Aye, they have some delusion that once all the planets and stars align and they get Newey, Brawn, and god knows what other custom requirements that no other team happens to need just to get to the podium, they will all of a sudden demolish the field. That's why I think LdM/FIAT should buy into Enstone and get some solid results for much cheaper. 



#2564 Ferrari2183

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Posted Yesterday, 14:27

Thought this would be of interest



#2565 Seanspeed

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Posted Yesterday, 14:45

Not just. It's also about the Ferrari race team sucking. 
 
The gist is that if there's an expectation for Kimi to "get on with it" without asking for custom parts from Ferrari (like Fernando does without custom parts), then the Ferrari racing team also need to "get on with it" without asking for custom TPs from LdM (like Williams have delivered without custom Team Principals). 
 
Driver and race team need to get on with what they have. Simple.

Team principals are not 'custom parts'. They are an integral and singular part of a team. Whether its right or wrong to think that Brawn would save the day(I don't think its that simple), the point people are making is that *Ferrari* need to change somehow. Not everything around Ferrari, but Ferrari themselves.

Unlike with Kimi fans, who *never* suggest that Kimi himself needs to change.

You understand this. I know you do. Get out the screwdriver and tighten the screw that's obviously come loose and please stop with this. PLEASE. So we can get back to what this topic should be about instead of discussing your poor attempt to come in here and label us all hypocrites out of bitterness.

Thought this would be of interest

Interesting, thanks. Haven't really payed much attention to Marussia or Caterhams' developments(largely because they don't tend to have many!).

Edited by Seanspeed, Yesterday, 14:47.


#2566 FerraristaItaliano

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Posted Yesterday, 15:19

You lost if completely today.. What happened?


It is the teams job [Management] to find the best resources available for the job. That is what managers do.. See who works and who does not and make changes..

The driver has to drive the car that the team produces. We are talking about a multi driver team and not a single driver team. If one driver is performing fantastic with the same car, you use that performance as a baseline .. Therefore the other driver who is doing poorly must either raise his game or management can decide to get a better resource for the job.

Is that simple.

 

:wave: Hi, I’m new of this chat but I want to share this thought.
We all know the big problems of the Ferrari Team. What do you think about the contacts of these days between Ferrari Team e Ross Brawn?



#2567 discover23

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Posted Yesterday, 15:33

:wave: Hi, I’m new of this chat but I want to share this thought.
We all know the big problems of the Ferrari Team. What do you think about the contacts of these days between Ferrari Team e Ross Brawn?


Hey, welcome. I have no clue to be honest. I am not sure if Brawn would bring immediate results back to Ferrari.. I am not really one of his devoted supporters basically because I did not like Ferrari's operating model and tactics when he was part of the mgmt team together with Todt..

#2568 boldhakka

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Posted Yesterday, 15:34

Team principals are not 'custom parts'. 

 

They are equivalent to custom parts if people keep asking for one specific dude all the time. Especially one that is difficult to manufacture.  ;)

 

 

They are an integral and singular part of a team. 

 

Brawn isn't an integral part of the current team, sorry. 

 

 

the point people are making is that *Ferrari* need to change somehow. Not everything around Ferrari, but Ferrari themselves.

 

Yes the current version of Ferrari need to change from within without asking LdM and FIAT and everybody and everything around themselves to spend millions to attract Brawn. The current race team have already asked Ferrari's North American road car division to give up their executive. They need to become more creative and get on with it and stop asking for custom external parts from the people that pay the bills. 


Edited by boldhakka, Yesterday, 15:37.


#2569 SCHUEYFAN

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Posted Yesterday, 15:37

 

Wow, the engineers are really earning their salary, isn't that just fancy heat wrap tape?  I bought a roll for my Ducati and covered the entire exhaust pipes and it does work, I'll offer to do it for them for a weekend pit pass and a five star hotel room....



#2570 Ferrari2183

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Posted Yesterday, 15:39

Interesting, thanks. Haven't really payed much attention to Marussia or Caterhams' developments(largely because they don't tend to have many!).


I think Ferrari are using them as guinea pigs.

#2571 Ferrari2183

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Posted Yesterday, 15:44

Wow, the engineers are really earning their salary, isn't that just fancy heat wrap tape? I bought a roll for my Ducati and covered the entire exhaust pipes and it does work, I'll offer to do it for them for a weekend pit pass and a five star hotel room....

Read the piece man, it's more than just the heat wrap. There is a heat shielding shroud around the exhaust arrangement.

They're most likely testing the benefits of said arrangement for more complete integration next year.

#2572 FerraristaItaliano

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Posted Yesterday, 16:23

Hey, welcome. I have no clue to be honest. I am not sure if Brawn would bring immediate results back to Ferrari.. I am not really one of his devoted supporters basically because I did not like Ferrari's operating model and tactics when he was part of the mgmt team together with Todt..

 

I share that you said but he's a big manager. If he will arrive in Ferrari will have the time for organizing the Team with the hope to win the next championship.
In this moment the Ferrari has a two big drivers but hasn't a good team at the box wall. I hope that you will agree with me.
Unfortunately the races don't win only with the drivers but also with the box team.



#2573 aditya-now

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Posted Yesterday, 17:52

Hey, welcome. I have no clue to be honest. I am not sure if Brawn would bring immediate results back to Ferrari.. I am not really one of his devoted supporters basically because I did not like Ferrari's operating model and tactics when he was part of the mgmt team together with Todt..

 

Very well said, discover23.

 

It was interesting in which environments (and with which tricks) Ross Brawn succeeded. Do we really want that again at Ferrari?



#2574 KnucklesAgain

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Posted Yesterday, 17:55

What's that got to do with it? So it would be OK for Kimi to ask for custom parts if he was bringing in (more) sponsorship? The point is that other teams like Williams don't seem to need to draw into those pools to deliver a better chassis. 

 

What's that got to do with it is that it was you who brought it up when you wrote "Ferrari are owned by FIAT and also have funds and talent diverted from their road car division to the race team."

 

I didn't mean to suggest you are saying/doing those things. I'm pointing out the general hypocrisy of the two ways of thinking in the two thread. 

 

OK. You said "you", but I get it now.

 

If Kimi has to get on with what he has, then the Ferrari race team has to get on with what it has; no whining about Brawn or Tombazi from Scuderia fans.

 

Absolutely, and I don't think anyone has argued that not maximizing the potential of the current car woud be ok. Of course we expect that in any given race they try to be as good as possible. Yes, with the current car that may not be more than a 5th place, but nobody here would be excusing, e.g., sloppy strategy or pit work which turn that maximum into something even worse. (There were arguments about whether some of Kimi's pit calls were really as bad as some Kimi fans said they were, but at the same time Ferrari and Kimi fans alike were critical if something really went wrong.) At the same time, of course they have to develop the car.

 

Same for Kimi, he has to improve with the current car, and at the same time they have to improve it for the future.

 

I agree with Seanspeed, I have really grown to very much respect your postings (also and especially in the Kimi thread), and I don't understand why you don't back out of  this ill conceived comparison that you started (it happens to all of us), and instead continue to scrape the bottom of the barrel despite it obviously not going anywhere good. You have shown so many times that you are better than that.


Edited by KnucklesAgain, Yesterday, 17:56.


#2575 Seanspeed

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Posted Yesterday, 18:46

I think Ferrari are using them as guinea pigs.

I don't think Marussia will mind!