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Fernando Alonso vs Kimi Räikkönen 2014 Part II


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#2601 Mauseri

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 22:51

Looking forward to the Monaco GP since the SANTANDER Spanish GP was a disappoitment for our drivers.

Actually they performed to the true level in the Spanish GP. No over- or underperforming, apart from Kimi's long stint on the hards which was poor, but it did not change the outcome from team point of view. Finished still ahead of Grosjean and could not have kept Vettel behind.


Edited by Mauseri, 16 May 2014 - 22:52.


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#2602 Menace

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 23:00

That sounds like another great question for Kimi. "Who is the Evil Spirit that sits on the Ferrari pit wall or in Maranello, who decides that the red #7 car will always finish behind the #14 car?"Menace, Rob Wilson and others want you to out him.  :drunk:

 

 

 

Care to fabricate any further on what I am saying?  Which part of no conspiracy do you not understand?  The rest of the post was not worth even quoting.


Edited by Menace, 16 May 2014 - 23:10.


#2603 Menace

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 23:01

Back then that Evil Spirit with stealth power was Schumacher on the Ferrari pit wall  :)

 

No it was Ross Brawn... master tactician.  :clap:   What Evil Spirit are you guys talking about?  Sounds like something personal you might need to deal with.  :lol:



#2604 Menace

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 23:11

By the way, any full radio transcriptions for the race?

 

For some reason it is taking much longer this time around:  http://www.f1fanatic...io-transcripts/

 

Still not there.  Would be interesting to read whether you are an Alonso or Kimi fan for sure.



#2605 warp

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 23:55

That sounds like another great question for Kimi. "Who is the Evil Spirit that sits on the Ferrari pit wall or in Maranello, who decides that the red #7 car will always finish behind the #14 car?"Menace, Rob Wilson and others want you to out him.  :drunk:

 

 

That's a good question. Normally these decisions are taken by the TP. He looks at both drivers/race engineer and decide accordingly before each side does something that hurts the overall result for the team.

 

I don't think Mattiaci is competent enough to make the right calls and many think that Domenicali was not either.

 

But, OTOH, I don't think that with the difference in points between Kimi and Fernando, Ferrari will let them race as equals. Unless Kimi gets closer, he will be Nr.2 driver for Ferrari. It is not fair, but Ferrari has never been fair in that regard.



#2606 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 00:07

That's a good question. Normally these decisions are taken by the TP. He looks at both drivers/race engineer and decide accordingly before each side does something that hurts the overall result for the team.

 

I don't think Mattiaci is competent enough to make the right calls and many think that Domenicali was not either.

 

But, OTOH, I don't think that with the difference in points between Kimi and Fernando, Ferrari will let them race as equals. Unless Kimi gets closer, he will be Nr.2 driver for Ferrari. It is not fair, but Ferrari has never been fair in that regard.

 

That leaves us with Botin/di Montezemolo!



#2607 Acathla

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 00:32

That leaves us with Botin/di Montezemolo!

Sure, in an alternate reality. 



#2608 warp

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 00:34

That leaves us with Botin/di Montezemolo!

 

To me it stops at Mattiaci being incompetent, but that is just me.



#2609 Hayden1

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 05:51

http://www.youtube.c...IMPE8VcjVo#t=83



#2610 f1RacingForever

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 06:51

 Who is in front is totally irrelevant, as we saw in Spain. 

So teams are supposed to base pit stop priority how exactly? I believe Ferrari knew Fernando was the quicker driver and this was the main reason he got priority over kimi. They wanted him to get out ahead of Kimi and try and cover Vettel like Fernando said. Didn't work out but that was the plan imo

 

See massa being told to move over for Bottas in Malaysia or Vettel being instructed to let Daniel past in previous races. All aimed to let the quicker driver through to maximize potential constructors points. Only difference is Ferrari did it with pit stops. You can agree or disagree with the decision but they team are always going to favor the quicker driver. If Kimi has quicker and being held up i would have no problem with the team instructing Fernando to move over.

 

Finally, going back to the question of if Kimi has ever been ahead, i think the more fitting question is; Has Kimi ever keep the quicker driver in a race?



#2611 AngelaTifosi

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 07:34

Alonso

 

Kimi own Alonso in last sector of barcelona all weekends, bode well for him in Monaco.



#2612 grunge

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 07:50

What I am going to say is quite obvious, but what makes you believe that the sample of people that will participate in such poll would actually represent a proper sample of F1 fans? Even a proper sample of forumers here in Autosport?

In order to have any scientific value, the poll you are suggesting should include a representative sample of all F1 followers, including those who are not represented in Autosport. If you were just trying to know the opinion of Autosport forumers, still you would have to make sure that a representative sample of all forumers here would participate; taking into account that it is less likely that a person with no interest in either Raikkonen or Alonso would go through all the information and different interpretations of such information that have been exposed in this thread, I would be very doubtful that those "neutral" views that you refer to would be properly represented. And in any case, unless you have exact information of the composition of the sample, you would never know if the result was skewed because the Autosport forumers base is in fact biased in favour of one driver or another.

So do as many polls as you want; just don't expect them to deliver anything but the opinion of the people that participate in it, whose alliegances you will know nothing of. And that is a far cry from the "balanced view of the F1 fan community" that you were referring to.


I talked about the "most neutral opinion" available and not what could be categorized as "the perfectly neutral opinion in a make believe world" where we are able to access all f1 fans that exist in the world and then make them go through a screening instrument to filter out the most biased ones..

And again as before the discussion has gone on a tangent away from the topic of the thread...ill just leave it at that...only thing thats becomong obvious here is that the whole autosport community is out to get Alonso..the only rational people left are those that believe Alonso didnt get preferential treatment despite all the evidence pointing towards in the opposite direction.

#2613 Vesuvius

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 08:36

According to suomif1.com, Kimi said to Spagnolo at radio:
" who does the decisions, I want to know?...it's clearly not us, we seem to always get a second choice. I want to Know what the hell is going on!?"

Spagnolo:
"Ok, we talk after the race"

Driving Coach Rob Wilson was angry to Ferrari, he said Kimi was stronger all weekend than Fernando and that was big thing as this was Fernandos home race and he always gets more out from him and the car there but now Kimi was quicker. Wilson says Ferrari will have lots of troubles with Kimi after what ey did to him as Kimi is not Massa.
"Kimi had waited for Fernando's overtake already few laps and there was nothing brilliant on that overtake."
" Kimi did his best to defend but tyre strategy that I think Kimi wasn't happy about favoured Fernando. Kimi was made unarmed"
" Kimi wanted first stop but somehow Ferrari was able to play it for Fernando, it didn't at first bring the result they hoped for, so they did it again.Kimi must have been really angry."
" Ferrari will not get away from this easily, Kimi will make it clear that they are not working with Felipe Massa anymore."

#2614 paulesko

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 08:39

Let's look at what Kimi was able to do with his teammate Massa:  2 WCC championship titles; 1 WDC championship title.

 

Let's look at what Alonso was able to do with his teammate Massa:  0 titles of any type whatsoever

 

Now let's consider which is more important to Ferrari: 

1.  Any Ferrari driver producing WDC and WCCs

2.  Alonso beating his teammate

 

I'm pretty certain we can all agree that Ferrari does not give 2 hoots about point #2. 

 

One can argue your point as to the relative prowess of Kimi and Alonso in light of their joint experience with Massa, but who cares?  Right here right now Ferrari wants to win a championship.  The most likely title is WCC over the next 2 years, and they will jeopardize it with continued Spain GP-like behavior.

 

 

To what end?  There is nothing in it for Ferrari unless they are pleasing Santander - and making king and country happy, or some other reason.

 

 

Alonso delivered near 100% once Ferrari hobbled his teammate by giving Alonso the optimal strategy.   With fair guns, he was unable to challenge his teammate (see the opening laps).  In other races, Alonso legitimately did better - but this round, Kimi had him beat until Ferrari stepped in on Fernando's behalf. :down:

 

I don´t understand you. How can a driver provide a WCC championship? Cars are more important than drivers these days, If Kimi has had 2 WCC cars and has only won 1 WDC, it´s because he didn´t take the oportunities when he had them, he had the best car two years and only won once...

 

Ferrari has not give Alonso a WCC winning car, but he´s been able to fight for the title till the end of the championship two seasons, and that´s something to take into account. You talk as if the cars were the same all these years and it hasn´t been the case. We will see through the season, how Alonso delivers and kimi fails once and again, and eventually, some weekends when Alonso doesn´t cut it, Kimi will be in front, that´s normal, but it will not be the rule. I repeat, it´s been like that with Massa and will be like that with Kimi.

 

Be sure that if they help Alonso somehow is because that´s the best for the WCC championsip.



#2615 naukkis

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 08:56

I don´t understand you. How can a driver provide a WCC championship?

 

Get the maximum points for team instead for itself by sacrifacing teammates results. Very simple explanation. I don't recall Ferrari newer **** up Massa's performance intentionally to favor other driver results with Kimi, if they had done they probably have missed WCC's same way they did with Alonso.

 

In Spain, would have Kimi been in front of Vettel with different strategies?



#2616 AngelaTifosi

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 09:11

According to suomif1.com, Kimi said to Spagnolo at radio:
" who does the decisions, I want to know?...it's clearly not us, we seem to always get a second choice. I want to Know what the hell is going on!?"

Spagnolo:
"Ok, we talk after the race"

Driving Coach Rob Wilson was angry to Ferrari, he said Kimi was stronger all weekend than Fernando and that was big thing as this was Fernandos home race and he always gets more out from him and the car there but now Kimi was quicker. Wilson says Ferrari will have lots of troubles with Kimi after what ey did to him as Kimi is not Massa.
"Kimi had waited for Fernando's overtake already few laps and there was nothing brilliant on that overtake."
" Kimi did his best to defend but tyre strategy that I think Kimi wasn't happy about favoured Fernando. Kimi was made unarmed"
" Kimi wanted first stop but somehow Ferrari was able to play it for Fernando, it didn't at first bring the result they hoped for, so they did it again.Kimi must have been really angry."
" Ferrari will not get away from this easily, Kimi will make it clear that they are not working with Felipe Massa anymore."

 

 

Clear up everything then...kimi's side of garage couldn't get the strategy they want  :wave:



#2617 Cyanide

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 09:18

According to suomif1.com, Kimi said to Spagnolo at radio:
" who does the decisions, I want to know?...it's clearly not us, we seem to always get a second choice. I want to Know what the hell is going on!?"

Spagnolo:
"Ok, we talk after the race"

Driving Coach Rob Wilson was angry to Ferrari, he said Kimi was stronger all weekend than Fernando and that was big thing as this was Fernandos home race and he always gets more out from him and the car there but now Kimi was quicker. Wilson says Ferrari will have lots of troubles with Kimi after what ey did to him as Kimi is not Massa.
"Kimi had waited for Fernando's overtake already few laps and there was nothing brilliant on that overtake."
" Kimi did his best to defend but tyre strategy that I think Kimi wasn't happy about favoured Fernando. Kimi was made unarmed"
" Kimi wanted first stop but somehow Ferrari was able to play it for Fernando, it didn't at first bring the result they hoped for, so they did it again.Kimi must have been really angry."
" Ferrari will not get away from this easily, Kimi will make it clear that they are not working with Felipe Massa anymore."

 

I don't understand why people thought that pass was brilliant in the first place. If anything, it took him way too long, he was on fresh rubber and on the faster compound while Kimi was struggling for grip on 22+ laps older tyres. 

 

Meh, looks like Fernando can do the most mundane things like having breakfast and people would still think it's brilliant. Whatever. 

 

The other thing: from that radio message it sounds like perhaps Kimi's garage wanted to switch to a 3-stopper but they got denied. That would be pretty ****ed up. 



#2618 Jovanotti

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 09:22

The other thing: from that radio message it sounds like perhaps Kimi's garage wanted to switch to a 3-stopper but they got denied. That would be pretty ****ed up. 

Tbh a three-stopper was never on the cards as soon as Alonso pitted before Kimi at the second round of pit stops. He was always going to end up behind Fernando from that point onwards, even if he copied his strategy.


Edited by Jovanotti, 17 May 2014 - 09:23.


#2619 Cyanide

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 09:27

Tbh a three-stopper was never on the cards as soon as Alonso pitted before Kimi at the second round of pit stops. He was always going to end up behind Fernando from that point onwards, even if he copied his strategy.

 

Depends when they wanted to switch. We really need those full radio transcripts to get an idea. 



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#2620 Radion

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 09:31

Depends when they wanted to switch. We really need those full radio transcripts to get an idea. 

Those f1fanatic transcripts never show the full radio conversations between the team and driver, don't they?!

But it should wake some people up in here when kimi says "always second choice" (that's if he said it that way, of course).



#2621 Cyanide

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 09:39

Those f1fanatic transcripts never show the full radio conversations between the team and driver, don't they?!

But it should wake some people up in here when kimi says "always second choice" (that's if he said it that way, of course).

 

Here's (one of) the excerpts: 

 

 

It's not very audible but I think this is what's being said:

 

Spagnolo: "Ok, it went off just by the very end (I guess he means tyres). Sorry about that"

Kimi: "Yeah, but who is making the calls? (can't understand what he says immediately after though. something like, "one of those?") I mean it seems to me that at least we are not...we seem to get the second choice every time so...that has to be...I wanna know what the hell is going on" 

Spagnolo: "Understood. Anyway, we will speak later."


Edited by Cyanide, 17 May 2014 - 09:42.


#2622 dreamer

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 09:46

I don't understand why people thought that pass was brilliant in the first place. If anything, it took him way too long, he was on fresh rubber and on the faster compound while Kimi was struggling for grip on 22+ laps older tyres. 

 

Meh, looks like Fernando can do the most mundane things like having breakfast and people would still think it's brilliant. Whatever. 

 

The other thing: from that radio message it sounds like perhaps Kimi's garage wanted to switch to a 3-stopper but they got denied. That would be pretty ****ed up. 

 

Actually, it was a great fight and a good pass. I know that Kimi had the slower compound on and it was also much older and he didn't have DRS and that the pass should have been easier but he defended brilliantly. In my opinion, it was Kimi's good defence that forced Alonso to try to find a creative way to past him. It was a brilliant pass caused by a brilliant defence. A good fight from both of them.

 

P.S exciting to watch but still I would prefer it if they were on the same compound and with new tires on... 


Edited by dreamer, 17 May 2014 - 10:14.


#2623 Astro

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 09:48

 

 

P. Windsor: "It took me about an hour to start to understand what was going there (T4)" (...) "You really have to watch what's happening to see this sort of patterns that are developing among the drivers"

 

(...)

 

P. Windsor: It was interesting about Fernando because he was not going for the same rotation in mid-corner. Fernando was committing later to the corner, but he wasn't doing it in his spiky way. (...) He was just sticking to the inside of the corner. By Saturday, he was just running inside, and when he was leaving turn 4, he was doing so right on the center. The only driver in the entire field to have so much road on the left (...), but I suspect he was not as quick as Kimi going in.

 

R. Wilson: No (...) Alonso was a bit slow (changing the direction).

 

Well, as far as Alonso is concerned, they have understood jack squat. De la Rosa pointed it out as soon as he noticed, which it didn't took him an hour. He was trying to conserve the front left, which was the tire most punished in Barcelona.

 

Rob Wilson explains that "when they went one for one, he actually outperformed Fernando". I guess he must be talking about the 0.013 in qualifying, because I saw none of that in the race, rather the opposite.

 

Rob Wilson suggesting Alonso play with an advantage because of a overpowered engine is an exercise in talking bollocks. In the first races of the season Ferrari was having too much torque, not too little. How do we know this extra power is translated in more speed (which Ferrari has never lacked) and not more spinning for example? How do we know it as an attempt to give Alonso an advantage and not a software mistake? The FIA has full control of the data. Ferrari knows it. What would be the point of giving his car extra power then? Risking being penalized for cheating?

 

What we know is that in a perfect sunny day Alonso was 0.013 slower than Kimi in qualifying. Is anyone suggesting they were able to be that close despite a power difference? Then again, there is always quantum entanglement. They just happened to be synchronized, even with a power difference. It is truly amazing what drivers are able to do. If you watched the lap comparison in youtube, you can clearly see Alonso getting better acceleration out the corners. That is, clearly if you are Rob Wilson. But assuming Alonso had indeed extra power that translated into an advantage in qualifying (which I doubt), Rob Wilson, despite all his knowledge and wisdom, cannot possibly know. He is simply making leaps of logic and showing a complete inability to analyze the race without putting aside his personal preferences.

 

Worst part is that these sages, by virtue of their purported knowledge, are listened to as if gospel came out of their mouths. I wish he had elaborated a bit more about the 3% reduction in weight as a function of driving style after making a geometrically perfect lap which makes some driver to "run illegally light" (smiles)... golly.



#2624 Radion

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 09:52

Yes, he indeed seems to be saying "all the time".

Hm, what a mess. If your own driver feels disadvantaged (all the time), then you made something wrong, Ferrari. :wave:

 

Here's (one of) the excerpts: 

 

 

It's not very audible but I think this is what's being said:

 

Spagnolo: "Ok, it went off just by the very end (I guess he means tyres). Sorry about that"

Kimi: "Yeah, but who is making the calls? (can't understand what he says immediately after though. something like, "one of those?") I mean it seems to me that at least we are not...we seem to get the second choice every time so...that has to be...I wanna know what the hell is going on" 

Spagnolo: "Understood. Anyway, we will speak later."



#2625 motorhead

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 10:03

I don´t understand you. How can a driver provide a WCC championship? Cars are more important than drivers these days, If Kimi has had 2 WCC cars and has only won 1 WDC, it´s because he didn´t take the oportunities when he had them, he had the best car two years and only won once...

 

Ferrari has not give Alonso a WCC winning car, but he´s been able to fight for the title till the end of the championship two seasons, and that´s something to take into account. You talk as if the cars were the same all these years and it hasn´t been the case. We will see through the season, how Alonso delivers and kimi fails once and again, and eventually, some weekends when Alonso doesn´t cut it, Kimi will be in front, that´s normal, but it will not be the rule. I repeat, it´s been like that with Massa and will be like that with Kimi.

 

Be sure that if they help Alonso somehow is because that´s the best for the WCC championsip.

 

Alonso had a WDC winning car in 2010. Vettel Alonso both had 5 wins that season. Without his own mistakes he would have won the WDC



#2626 paulesko

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 10:43

Alonso had a WDC winning car in 2010. Vettel Alonso both had 5 wins that season. Without his own mistakes he would have won the WDC

 

A WDC car is not a car that ends third in the WCC championship with a 100 point difference. In hands of Alonso probably you could think that you could win a championship with that car, but look what Massa did. What´s more, that was his first year at Ferrari, and we have to give him the credit of "adapting to the team and the car" that we are giving kimi this year no?



#2627 garoidb

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 10:58

Alonso had a WDC winning car in 2010. Vettel Alonso both had 5 wins that season. Without his own mistakes he would have won the WDC

 

Vettel, Hamilton and Webber all made mistakes that year. The same comment could have been made about Vettel if it had gone the other way. Alonso's mistake rate wasn't what made the difference between him and Vettel.  



#2628 bourbon

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 11:11

I don´t understand you. How can a driver provide a WCC championship? Cars are more important than drivers these days, If Kimi has had 2 WCC cars and has only won 1 WDC, it´s because he didn´t take the oportunities when he had them, he had the best car two years and only won once...

 

Ferrari has not give Alonso a WCC winning car, but he´s been able to fight for the title till the end of the championship two seasons, and that´s something to take into account. You talk as if the cars were the same all these years and it hasn´t been the case. We will see through the season, how Alonso delivers and kimi fails once and again, and eventually, some weekends when Alonso doesn´t cut it, Kimi will be in front, that´s normal, but it will not be the rule. I repeat, it´s been like that with Massa and will be like that with Kimi.

 

Be sure that if they help Alonso somehow is because that´s the best for the WCC championsip.

 

Well people have responded to the above as I would, so I won't repeat that. 

 

The bottom line is that presently Ferrari needs two drivers in order to challenge for the WCC.  The only way to keep them motivated and focused on that goal is to keep things equitable and fair between them.  Then Ferrari will challenge for its cup and we will see the best of both drivers.



#2629 Cyanide

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 11:32

What we know is that in a perfect sunny day Alonso was 0.013 slower than Kimi in qualifying. Is anyone suggesting they were able to be that close despite a power difference? Then again, there is always quantum entanglement. They just happened to be synchronized, even with a power difference. It is truly amazing what drivers are able to do. If you watched the lap comparison in youtube, you can clearly see Alonso getting better acceleration out the corners. That is, clearly if you are Rob Wilson. But assuming Alonso had indeed extra power that translated into an advantage in qualifying (which I doubt), Rob Wilson, despite all his knowledge and wisdom, cannot possibly know. He is simply making leaps of logic and showing a complete inability to analyze the race without putting aside his personal preferences.

 

 

I wouldn't refer to Rob Wilson as the holy bible. He has a bias towards Raikkonen, he made it very clear that he likes him a lot. 

 

I would consider his take on the matter if he was objective, but he's not. And I'm talking now as a Kimi fan. 


Edited by Cyanide, 17 May 2014 - 11:32.


#2630 Alondra

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 11:34

Alonso

 

Yup. Agreed.



#2631 discover23

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 11:49

Well people have responded to the above as I would, so I won't repeat that.

The bottom line is that presently Ferrari needs two drivers in order to challenge for the WCC. The only way to keep them motivated and focused on that goal is to keep things equitable and fair between them. Then Ferrari will challenge for its cup and we will see the best of both drivers.


Challenge for the WCC? What f1 season are you watching?
What they need to focus on is improving the car. The drivers are the least of their worries right now.

#2632 AngelaTifosi

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 12:01

 

 

 

P. Windsor: "It took me about an hour to start to understand what was going there (T4)" (...) "You really have to watch what's happening to see this sort of patterns that are developing among the drivers"

 

(...)

 

P. Windsor: It was interesting about Fernando because he was not going for the same rotation in mid-corner. Fernando was committing later to the corner, but he wasn't doing it in his spiky way. (...) He was just sticking to the inside of the corner. By Saturday, he was just running inside, and when he was leaving turn 4, he was doing so right on the center. The only driver in the entire field to have so much road on the left (...), but I suspect he was not as quick as Kimi going in.

 

R. Wilson: No (...) Alonso was a bit slow (changing the direction).

 

Well, as far as Alonso is concerned, they have understood jack squat. De la Rosa pointed it out as soon as he noticed, which it didn't took him an hour. He was trying to conserve the front left, which was the tire most punished in Barcelona.

 

Rob Wilson explains that "when they went one for one, he actually outperformed Fernando". I guess he must be talking about the 0.013 in qualifying, because I saw none of that in the race, rather the opposite.

 

Rob Wilson suggesting Alonso play with an advantage because of a overpowered engine is an exercise in talking bollocks. In the first races of the season Ferrari was having too much torque, not too little. How do we know this extra power is translated in more speed (which Ferrari has never lacked) and not more spinning for example? How do we know it as an attempt to give Alonso an advantage and not a software mistake? The FIA has full control of the data. Ferrari knows it. What would be the point of giving his car extra power then? Risking being penalized for cheating?

 

What we know is that in a perfect sunny day Alonso was 0.013 slower than Kimi in qualifying. Is anyone suggesting they were able to be that close despite a power difference? Then again, there is always quantum entanglement. They just happened to be synchronized, even with a power difference. It is truly amazing what drivers are able to do. If you watched the lap comparison in youtube, you can clearly see Alonso getting better acceleration out the corners. That is, clearly if you are Rob Wilson. But assuming Alonso had indeed extra power that translated into an advantage in qualifying (which I doubt), Rob Wilson, despite all his knowledge and wisdom, cannot possibly know. He is simply making leaps of logic and showing a complete inability to analyze the race without putting aside his personal preferences.

 

Worst part is that these sages, by virtue of their purported knowledge, are listened to as if gospel came out of their mouths. I wish he had elaborated a bit more about the 3% reduction in weight as a function of driving style after making a geometrically perfect lap which makes some driver to "run illegally light" (smiles)... golly.

 

 

ok, Peter Windosr, Rob Wilson, Mark Hughes, Martin Brundle, Michael Schmidt, Edd Straw, Jon Noble and the list go on.

 

WTH do they know about racing  :rotfl:

 

Edit:

 

Btw, alonso trying to conserve front left, is it the reason why he claim his tyre was gone and ask for pit??

 

WHen it comes to credibility, Pedro De La Rosa is unlikely due to his nationality and their history back in 2007.  :lol:


Edited by AngelaTifosi, 17 May 2014 - 12:02.


#2633 turssi

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 12:20

Fernando will do everything to get that pit stop priority, wasn't there a race where he put his car in front of Felipe on the pit lane entry? The poor Brazilian had to wait his turn and the team was ok with that.

Kimi will just have to do a little more than that if he wants to get something else than the second choice.

#2634 Jovanotti

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 12:33



#2635 photon

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 12:34

I wouldn't refer to Rob Wilson as the holy bible. He has a bias towards Raikkonen, he made it very clear that he likes him a lot. 

 

I would consider his take on the matter if he was objective, but he's not. And I'm talking now as a Kimi fan. 

 

What makes you think that Rob Wilson is biased?



#2636 AngelaTifosi

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 12:35

 

no such thing as fairness....Kimi should realize by now, screw the pre race agreement about pit stop.



#2637 garoidb

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 12:44

no such thing as fairness....Kimi should realize by now, screw the pre race agreement about pit stop.

 

Nothing unfair about that, just racing.



#2638 turssi

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 12:52

Not just racing, but racing according to Ferrari. Raikkonen needs to do what Alonso has been doing these five years and a little bit more in order to make his mark.

#2639 Fontainebleau

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 12:57

they always have the victims mindset....when it's alonso's teammate that always suffer from it  :lol:

Fascinating... from somebody who has defended how his/her favourite driver is always the victim of a conspiracy, particularly when it comes to his history at certain red team. Do you realise the incongruency?


Edited by Fontainebleau, 17 May 2014 - 13:13.


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#2640 Fontainebleau

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 12:59

I talked about the "most neutral opinion" available and not what could be categorized as "the perfectly neutral opinion in a make believe world" where we are able to access all f1 fans that exist in the world and then make them go through a screening instrument to filter out the most biased ones..

And again as before the discussion has gone on a tangent away from the topic of the thread...ill just leave it at that...only thing thats becomong obvious here is that the whole autosport community is out to get Alonso..the only rational people left are those that believe Alonso didnt get preferential treatment despite all the evidence pointing towards in the opposite direction.

 

Is that what you conclude from a post which simply explains the scientific value that can be attached to a poll, and why it would not deliver the answer that you are seeking for? I am puzzled.


Edited by Fontainebleau, 17 May 2014 - 13:13.


#2641 Fontainebleau

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 13:00

For some reason it is taking much longer this time around:  http://www.f1fanatic...io-transcripts/

 

Still not there.  Would be interesting to read whether you are an Alonso or Kimi fan for sure.

Absolutely!



#2642 Fontainebleau

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 13:05

 

I am quite happy with Rob Wilson giving his opinions, and I think that he makes some very interesting points. But his attack on Felipe Massa is unwarranted, arrogant and stupid - it reflects extremely poorly on him, rather than on Massa, that he dares to makes such comments about a driver he has never worked with.



#2643 Cyanide

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 13:07

We will never reach an agreement whether there is favoritism or not. Until Ferrari get on the radio and say the dreaded "Alonso is faster than you" it will never be clear enough for anybody to conclude there are team preferences. 



#2644 Astro

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 13:08

ok, Peter Windosr, Rob Wilson, Mark Hughes, Martin Brundle, Michael Schmidt, Edd Straw, Jon Noble and the list go on.

 

WTH do they know about racing  :rotfl:

 

Edit:

 

Btw, alonso trying to conserve front left, is it the reason why he claim his tyre was gone and ask for pit??

 

WHen it comes to credibility, Pedro De La Rosa is unlikely due to his nationality and their history back in 2007.  :lol:

 

They probably know much more than most of us. And De la Rosa more than all of them put together when it comes to driving these cars or about Ferrari.


Edited by Astro, 17 May 2014 - 13:13.


#2645 Fontainebleau

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 13:08

 Pretentious s%#t. Did kimi pass Fernando on track and finish 15 seconds ahead in either race? Hows that for logic? Logic is clearly not your strength is it? Maybe a few more smileys might help?

 

Sometime ago I concluded that, in general, the quality of an argument (or a poster) is inversely proportional to the number of laughing smilies used to get the point across. So I honestly doubt a few more smilies will help!

 

PS Yes, I know you were being ironic.



#2646 Fontainebleau

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 13:14

We will never reach an agreement whether there is favoritism or not. Until Ferrari get on the radio and say the dreaded "Alonso is faster than you" it will never be clear enough for anybody to conclude there are team preferences. 

 I see your point, but we heard "Kimi is faster than you" at Lotus a few times, and it did not look clear enough for some people to conclude that there were team preferences. Why would it be different if we heard it now?



#2647 artista

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 13:15

They probably know much more than most of us. And De la Rosa more than any of them put together when it comes to driving these cars or about Ferrari.

The problem of de la Rosa is that he is a Ferrari employe talking in a very special TV chanel: he will say what Ferrari tells him to say and what Antena 3 wants to listen (with certain limits, it's true he usually shuts Lobato up when he crosses certain red lines, especially when insulting other drivers)

-----------------

@Angela: de la Rosa and Räikkönen are pretty good friends out of track since many years, they just don't make news out of it

#2648 Fontainebleau

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 13:20

The problem of de la Rosa is that he is a Ferrari employe talking in a very special TV chanel: he will say what Ferrari tells him to say and what Antena 3 wants to listen (with certain limits, it's true he usually shuts Lobato up when he crosses certain red lines, especially when insulting other drivers)

 A pity other TV broadcasters don't have a similar figure, don't you think?



#2649 REDalert

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 13:24

So teams are supposed to base pit stop priority how exactly? I believe Ferrari knew Fernando was the quicker driver and this was the main reason he got priority over kimi. They wanted him to get out ahead of Kimi and try and cover Vettel like Fernando said. Didn't work out but that was the plan imo

 

See massa being told to move over for Bottas in Malaysia or Vettel being instructed to let Daniel past in previous races. All aimed to let the quicker driver through to maximize potential constructors points. Only difference is Ferrari did it with pit stops. You can agree or disagree with the decision but they team are always going to favor the quicker driver. If Kimi has quicker and being held up i would have no problem with the team instructing Fernando to move over.

 

Finally, going back to the question of if Kimi has ever been ahead, i think the more fitting question is; Has Kimi ever keep the quicker driver in a race?

Alonso was not faster. Before pit stop Kimi had Grosjean fromt of him. After pitting Kimi had clear track and build a gap to Alonso.



#2650 Cyanide

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 13:28

 I see your point, but we heard "Kimi is faster than you" at Lotus a few times, and it did not look clear enough for some people to conclude that there were team preferences. Why would it be different if we heard it now?

 

Who didn't know Lotus favored Kimi when he was delivering results while Grosjean was playing destruction derby in real life? 


Edited by Cyanide, 17 May 2014 - 13:30.