174 replies to this topic

[Collombin]

the latter taking 7 Indy 500s between 1956 and 1964.

6

[/pedant]

[Spaceframe]

I'd like to nominate the Cooper Climax - very successful in it's own way, and caused every single other team to change to engines at the back (which they were pre-war...odd that they'd forgotten).

 

And then we had the beautiful early 60s cars, slim torpedos, with no bits sticking out.

I don't agree about the Cooper. In 1959 the Ferrari Dinos could still run faster on circuits like Reims, Avus and Monza, and in 1960 the Lotus 18 certainly matched the pace of the lowline Cooper (but lacked reliability a bit). It was certainly one of the most important cars in the history of motor racing, but not the most dominant.

 

A more reasonable candidate from the early 1960s is the Lotus 25. In 1963, iither Clark's car broke down or he won...

Edited by Spaceframe, 27 April 2014 - 12:41.

[Amphicar]

How about the McLaren M8B? In the 1969 Can-Am Series Bruce McLaren & Denny Hulme won all 11 rounds - Bruce taking 6 wins and Denny 5. In 8 of the rounds their M8Bs finished first and second.

[HeadFirst]

Nothing to add really, except that this is a brilliant thread. Thanks to all for the pics and history!

[midgrid]

I certainly think that the F2004 was potentially more dominant than the F2002, but that it was reigned-in somewhat by the qualifying and parc fermé rules that were introduced in 2003, making it more difficult for Schumacher and Barrichello to simply romp into the distance on the optimum strategy at every GP.

[George Costanza]

I certainly think that the F2004 was potentially more dominant than the F2002, but that it was reigned-in somewhat by the qualifying and parc fermé rules that were introduced in 2003, making it more difficult for Schumacher and Barrichello to simply romp into the distance on the optimum strategy at every GP.

 

I agree.

[jj2728]

How about the McLaren M8B? In the 1969 Can-Am Series Bruce McLaren & Denny Hulme won all 11 rounds - Bruce taking 6 wins and Denny 5. In 8 of the rounds their M8Bs finished first and second.

Works for me.....

[sheepgobba]

Can you imagine how much faster the F2004 might have been with slicks? 

[chunder27]

What about tne Audi R8 sports car

 

Continually running up front in a peroid where cars were constantly being unleashed against it, this thing remained dominant on the longer distance races.

[Spaceframe]

How about the McLaren M8B? In the 1969 Can-Am Series Bruce McLaren & Denny Hulme won all 11 rounds - Bruce taking 6 wins and Denny 5. In 8 of the rounds their M8Bs finished first and second.

Probably the most dominant ever, only the Ferrari 500 comes close, as it lost once in 1952 (at Reims, to Behra's Gordini), and again to Fangio's Maserati at Monza in 1953.

 

But neither the McLaren nor the 500 were F1 cars(the first post specifically states this is about F1), so neither qualifies for this - and the same goes for the Le Mans Audis.

[ensign14]

If we were looking outside the GP formula, you have to consider the 917 (once it was sorted, only really beaten once, and faced more competition than Audi did au Mans) and the March 85C (did it ever lose?  So good even Penske bought them).

[Collombin]

the March 85C (did it ever lose?

Several times, unless I've misunderstood the question.

[ViMaMo]

Adrian Newey's Red Bulls score very high. 

[George Costanza]

Can you imagine how much faster the F2004 might have been with slicks? 

 

2 seconds faster?

[George Costanza]

What about tne Audi R8 sports car

 

Continually running up front in a peroid where cars were constantly being unleashed against it, this thing remained dominant on the longer distance races.

 

Most dominant sports car next to Porsche 956/962.

[sheepgobba]

2 seconds faster?

 

Perhaps minimum 2 seconds maybe? I remember reading an article in 2009 that stated the 2008 cars were the highest they achieved in terms of downforce and complexity wise. Stick slicks on those cars and even perhaps a V10 and you have incredible pace imo, perhaps faster than the F2004?  

[Jejking]

Perhaps minimum 2 seconds maybe? I remember reading an article in 2009 that stated the 2008 cars were the highest they achieved in terms of downforce and complexity wise. Stick slicks on those cars and even perhaps a V10 and you have incredible pace imo, perhaps faster than the F2004?  

Laptimes in the dry were about similar between 2008 and 2009, despite a massive cut in downforce, 25 percent or the like so the reintroduction of slicks must have helped them with at least a second.

[jcpower13]

Laptimes in the dry were about similar between 2008 and 2009, despite a massive cut in downforce, 25 percent or the like so the reintroduction of slicks must have helped them with at least a second.

Slicks are worth more than a second in comparison to the grooved tires. I believe it was stated the difference was something like 2-3 seconds back in 09.

[D28]

Have to go with  Currahee who outlines the dominance of the Ferrari 500 in 1952-53. A 93% win rate over 2 seasons is hard to beat.

There was plenty of competition from various makes, its just that they were so behind Ferrari's development, and that outlines the term domination. Even with a healthy Fangio aboard in 53,  it took till the very last race for Maserati to get a win.

[OO7]

Perhaps minimum 2 seconds maybe? I remember reading an article in 2009 that stated the 2008 cars were the highest they achieved in terms of downforce and complexity wise. Stick slicks on those cars and even perhaps a V10 and you have incredible pace imo, perhaps faster than the F2004?  

During the 2006 Eurosport coverage of the GP2 feature race in Turkey, Gareth Rees (one of the commentators) mentioned that Ferrari had tested the slick bridgestone GP2 tyres on their F1 car and it immediately went two seconds a lap quicker.

 

About which car/s produced the greatest level of downforce, here is what Adrian Newey said:

“The RB6 was probably the car with the most downforce in the history of F1, more even than the legendary spoiler cars of the 1980s. We measured up to 5.5G of lateral acceleration.

“It could go flat out through Copse at Silverstone, and on the sharp bend on the back straight at Barcelona [Campsa].”

[D28]

Clark's team-mates included Graham Hill, John Surtees and Dan Gurney.   Neither Schumacher or Vettel has had as team-mate anyone even comparatively similar.  And I am including Nelson Piquet in that.

 

I don't recall Gurney racing as a team mate at least with Team Lotus.

 

Clark has an amazing record over his team mates, in that he was very rarely ever beaten by them. After Ireland's win in the 61 US GP, Clark was never beaten to a win by a Team Lotus mate. Not only did the other drivers know he was the best, his team mates did for sure. This included Graham Hill, I saw then race at Watkins Glen 1967, where Hill set pole, led and set fl but still Clark won by about 6 seconds. They both looked very smooth, evenly matched, yet I think that Clark had something extra in hand which he could pull out, and Hill didn't.  I believe this would have been true whoever he had been paired with. 

[Rob G]

I don't recall Gurney racing as a team mate at least with Team Lotus.

 

They were Lotus teammates at Indy and at other champ car races.

[D28]

They were Lotus teammates at Indy and at other champ car races.

Of course, my. I just read Vintage Motorsport account of the 1964 Indy and realized my memory lapse!

Thanks.

[Collombin]

They were Lotus teammates at Indy and at other champ car races.

Milwaukee '63 being the ultimate demonstration of dinosaur killing by the pair of them.

[sheepgobba]

 

During the 2006 Eurosport coverage of the GP2 feature race in Turkey, Gareth Rees (one of the commentators) mentioned that Ferrari had tested the slick bridgestone GP2 tyres on their F1 car and it immediately went two seconds a lap quicker.

 

About which car/s produced the greatest level of downforce, here is what Adrian Newey said:

“The RB6 was probably the car with the most downforce in the history of F1, more even than the legendary spoiler cars of the 1980s. We measured up to 5.5G of lateral acceleration.

“It could go flat out through Copse at Silverstone, and on the sharp bend on the back straight at Barcelona [Campsa].”

 

Pretty impressive given 2 seconds increase in lap time from other series tyres! 

 

In regards to the last part how much is that from the grip offered by the slicks? I still think the 2008 cars (F2008) might have generated more downforce given the rules at the time.