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Prost: Renault will get the upper hand over Mercedes


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#1 LeMans86

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 20:20

Let's wait and see another two or three races and it could be quite different.

https://uk.eurosport...807682--f1.html

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#2 Maaarsh

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 20:24

Coming hot on the heels of Hollande thinking a business takeover is any of his business, another middle aged Frenchman goes for a bit of daft flag waving.



#3 Fatgadget

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 20:24

Ummmm... What nationality is Alain Prost and err Andre Renault?... :p

#4 Jerem

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 20:31

Prost is an ambassador for Renault, hence the "we" he uses talking about Renault in all the quotes in the article. So this is basically PR.



#5 Fatgadget

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 20:43

Prost is an ambassador for Renault, hence the "we" he uses talking about Renault in all the quotes in the article. So this is basically PR.

Ah!...I have visions...more like nightmares- truth be told,the likes of Nigel Mansell extolling the virtues of Brtish Leyland!

Edited by Fatgadget, 28 April 2014 - 20:44.


#6 jcpower13

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 20:43

Mercedes of course will stop all development just so Renault can get ahead...



#7 Markn93

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 20:59

Also RB have used their 'joker' for gear ratios (according to Brundle) and they are incredibly short. They will have virtually no chance at Monza, Spa and anytime they are in a dogfight with a Merc because as we saw with Vettel in China trying to get past Alonso after the first round of stops, they aren't nearly geared long enough (hit 8th on small straight at Bahrain). 


Edited by Markn93, 28 April 2014 - 20:59.


#8 scheivlak

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 22:00

Ultra stupid headline - nowhere does Alain say that they will get the upper hand.



#9 Maustinsj

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 22:19

He could be right...or he might not be.


Mark my words...

#10 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 22:22

Prost the PU engineer!  oh Prost the Renault 'ambassador'.  Right.



#11 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 23:56

I expect the gap between the engine suppliers will be a lot closer come end of 2014.

#12 CHIUNDA

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 04:05

I expect the gap between the engine suppliers will be a lot closer come end of 2014.

 

How when the engines are homologated? I don't think software and reliability fine tuning is enough to breach the gap - which are basically the key options available to Ferrari and Renault. Don't forget, Mercedes are also entitled to the same software and fine tuning, so the fundamental engineering gap should be retained for at least a year.



#13 bourbon

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 04:20

Prost is the best.

 

If he says it will happen, it will.  :up:



#14 Gorma

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 05:09

How when the engines are homologated? I don't think software and reliability fine tuning is enough to breach the gap - which are basically the key options available to Ferrari and Renault. Don't forget, Mercedes are also entitled to the same software and fine tuning, so the fundamental engineering gap should be retained for at least a year.

It might be fine tuning when it comes to Mercedes, but Ferrari and especially Renault have a lot more than just fine tuning to do. Couple of months ago Renault wasn't even able to complete more than a few laps on reduced power while Mercedes was doing more than 100 laps per day.



#15 tmzxaar

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 05:22

Prost is the best.

If he says it will happen, it will. :up:


Even then, Vettel would still miss his downforce :)

#16 blackmme

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 05:56

Prost is the best.

If he says it will happen, it will. :up:


'Team Prost Grand Prix presented the new car AP02 on 25th January 1999. All team members were very optimistic. Alain said, that the target is the third or fourth place in the F1 constructors championship behind McLaren and Ferrari.'

Regards Mike

#17 LeMans86

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 11:50

Taffin: "maybe ahead of Montreal having something that is very close to 100%.

Overall it is looking promising, but we must not forget that we need the reliability and we are working on that area. It's obvious that we've been among the engine manufacturers that have introduced most of the new components and it's fair to say we need to focus on reliability to get through all the races. It's not only performance that we need, we need also to finish races."


Asked if Renault could match Mercedes at any point this year or if it would have to wait for a more considerable overhaul of engine hardware next winter, Taffin added: "It's very difficult to say, because when we get to the point at which we have the same amount of energy around the lap, it's all about having maximum power. How do you compare power? You go into the games of drag level and so on, but one thing we can say is that Mercedes is quicker down the straights and quicker round the lap, so I presume that they have got a better engine than us. That must be right, but having said that there is more than the V6 and the turbo and the electrical machine to get the most out of the power unit. We can discuss about oil, we can discuss about fuel, so we still have a good work in progress with Total in terms of fuel. Definitely there is more to come."

http://en.espnf1.com...ory/155985.html

Read more at http://en.espnf1.com...qy3ZYTCsof5q.99

#18 Jon83

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 12:19

Let's wait and see another two or three races and it could be quite different.

https://uk.eurosport...807682--f1.html

 

Another two or three seasons perhaps but Mercedes are untouchable this season IMO.



#19 Timstr11

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 12:42

In their press release before the China GP, Taffin already said they'd operate "close to the maximum" in China.

 

Interesting that in the ESPN article Taffin alludes to the "drag level" of the RB10 being a factor in the performance.

 

Curious to see how ReBull will address this. Cutting drag will inevitably have an effect on their downforce levels.


Edited by Timstr11, 29 April 2014 - 12:44.


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#20 goingthedistance

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 12:48

Just read that article about Montreal and it all sounds rather hazy. I don't think Renault are going to get close enough this season to stop Mercedes.

#21 4MEN

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 12:56

Chauvinism at his best.



#22 Obi Offiah

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 12:59

Just read that article about Montreal and it all sounds rather hazy. I don't think Renault are going to get close enough this season to stop Mercedes.

:confused:



#23 Timstr11

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 13:27

:confused:

I think he means the ESPN article.



#24 HeadFirst

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 13:33

Prost is not one to speak for the sake of hearing his own voice. Despite his connection to Renault and his French bias (as some, not I, perceive it), he is knowledgeable about F1, and his words are certainly worth a listen, or in this case a read. I am impressed that there are so many here, whose knowledge of F1 exceeds his and have no bias towards team, manufacturer, or national origin.



#25 Jon83

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 14:25

Prost is not one to speak for the sake of hearing his own voice. Despite his connection to Renault and his French bias (as some, not I, perceive it), he is knowledgeable about F1, and his words are certainly worth a listen, or in this case a read. I am impressed that there are so many here, whose knowledge of F1 exceeds his and have no bias towards team, manufacturer, or national origin.

 

Jeezo everyone is entitled to an opinion. We'll find out soon enough who was right.



#26 MrMan

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 14:36


It's obvious that we've been among the engine manufacturers that have introduced most of the new components

 

 

 

Is that allowed under homologation? I get that they are allowed to improve parts for reliability/cost/safety e.t.c. but new parts?



#27 Fatgadget

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 14:46




Is that allowed under homologation? I get that they are allowed to improve parts for reliability/cost/safety e.t.c. but new parts?

Other engine manufacturers have to give the nod to modifications/new parts far as Im aware; so I guess it's a yes under the homologation rules.

#28 beute

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 15:32

 

 

Is that allowed under homologation? I get that they are allowed to improve parts for reliability/cost/safety e.t.c. but new parts?

 

that doesnt make sense, am I wrong here?
every improved part, be it for reliability/cost/safety or anything else, also falls under the category "new part".

How are you gonna achieve improvement in anything without new parts?

what are you supposed to do then? bring in identical parts over and over again in the hope something changes? :D



#29 F1ultimate

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 15:54

Mercedes have a sustainable competitive advantage that's hardware orientated to the extent that the only way of closing the gap would be for Renault and Ferrari to significantly redesign their engines. 

 

This season's engine war is lost for Renault. Whilst they will improve their engine to be a bit more competitive, they will not close the gap to Mercedes, and are better off focusing on next year.



#30 MrMan

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 15:54

...

 

The key word I took from that quote was 'introduced', implying that the new components aren't improved versions of existing components for cost/reliability/safety, but were components that were not seen on the engine beforehand, hence my questioning of whether that is allowed under homologation rules.



#31 Timstr11

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 16:50

Taffin: "maybe ahead of Montreal having something that is very close to 100%.

Overall it is looking promising, but we must not forget that we need the reliability and we are working on that area. It's obvious that we've been among the engine manufacturers that have introduced most of the new components and it's fair to say we need to focus on reliability to get through all the races. It's not only performance that we need, we need also to finish races."


Asked if Renault could match Mercedes at any point this year or if it would have to wait for a more considerable overhaul of engine hardware next winter, Taffin added: "It's very difficult to say, because when we get to the point at which we have the same amount of energy around the lap, it's all about having maximum power. How do you compare power? You go into the games of drag level and so on, but one thing we can say is that Mercedes is quicker down the straights and quicker round the lap, so I presume that they have got a better engine than us. That must be right, but having said that there is more than the V6 and the turbo and the electrical machine to get the most out of the power unit. We can discuss about oil, we can discuss about fuel, so we still have a good work in progress with Total in terms of fuel. Definitely there is more to come."

http://en.espnf1.com...ory/155985.html

Read more at http://en.espnf1.com...qy3ZYTCsof5q.99

 

Another interesting quote from Taffin:

"It's fair to say that coming into Barcelona or Monaco it's not going to be massively power sensitive, but it is going to be massively energy sensitive.

Read more at http://en.espnf1.com...HQU2mGGbOvAo.99

 

 

Not massively power sensitive but 'massively energy sensitive' as in: potential for significant differences in fuel consumption and thus fuel start weight.


Edited by Timstr11, 29 April 2014 - 17:01.


#32 beute

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 17:04

Mercedes have a sustainable competitive advantage that's hardware orientated to the extent that the only way of closing the gap would be for Renault and Ferrari to significantly redesign their engines. 

sounds more like you are asserting something you cannot possibly know.

you would need profound knowledge of all 3 engines before you can even begin to make statements like that.

Not even customers teams have that kind of knowledge...



#33 Szoelloe

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 17:59

sounds more like you are asserting something you cannot possibly know.

you would need profound knowledge of all 3 engines before you can even begin to make statements like that.

Not even customers teams have that kind of knowledge...

 

While what you say is reasonable, it is possible to make the statement you reject and stand by it. The W05 is by far the best package out there, and the engine is is an essential part yes, but not in the way for instance Marko tries to make it look like. The HP and other traits of the engine are not far from the Merc lump IMHO, it may even be the same. It is the packaging, the size, and the integrated design features that make a huge difference. Basically everyone is working hard on 2015, already I guess, because apart from coming up with a fresh design, I see no hope for the other teams. Yes, they may get closer, most possibly they will, but I really don't think it is realistic to expect anyone to catch Mercedes this season.



#34 LeMans86

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 18:23

Another interesting quote from Taffin:
 
 
Not massively power sensitive but 'massively energy sensitive' as in: potential for significant differences in fuel consumption and thus fuel start weight.

That and the harvasting of energy during the race.

The renault engines have been running 100% of the allowed fuel at every race though iirc

#35 apoka

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 20:08

Prost says: "But the most important thing is to work and make progress as soon as possible. Let's wait and see another two or three races and it could be quite different."

 

Journalist writes: "Formula 1 - Prost predicts engine battle swing"

 

Forum poster writes: "Prost: Renault will get the upper hand over Mercedes"

 



#36 LeMans86

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 20:37

Prost says: "But the most important thing is to work and make progress as soon as possible. Let's wait and see another two or three races and it could be quite different."
 
Journalist writes: "Formula 1 - Prost predicts engine battle swing"
 
Forum poster writes: "Prost: Renault will get the upper hand over Mercedes"

Yes? A swing doesn't mean we'll get closer. A swing means the order will change.

the engine battle between Renault and Mercedes could be transformed in a few races, opening up the fight for victories in Formula 1.
and
Prost, who is an ambassador for Renault, believes that the next few weeks will not only help it close up the gap, but could result in Mercedes' dominance in 2014 coming under threat.

#37 apoka

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 20:44

Yes? A swing doesn't mean we'll get closer. A swing means the order will change.

the engine battle between Renault and Mercedes could be transformed in a few races, opening up the fight for victories in Formula 1.
and
Prost, who is an ambassador for Renault, believes that the next few weeks will not only help it close up the gap, but could result in Mercedes' dominance in 2014 coming under threat.

 

I developed the habit to mostly focus on the direct quotes. The surrounding text is usually aimed at maximising viewership (like the parts you quoted).



#38 femi

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 23:45

Prost said Nico will out think Lewis because it is a thinking driver's year. From what I have seen and the noises out of Merc, the opposite is happening. It is easy to see who is taking who to school. Nick has done more testing than Lewis.Nico even tested the car after Bahrain GP. Guess what happened the next race, Lewis still wiped the floor with him. 

 

By the way,  Merc are still working on their engines for reliability purposes. .. lol



#39 pingu666

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 23:57

well merc are supposidly giving up 15~hp with their exhaust solution, so maybe the others can "reliability" there way to similer performance, its not like renault hasnt done that in the past..



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#40 OvDrone

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 00:13

It's funny seeing Prost as a Renault PR guy, when you think about 1983 and how Renault ruined his championship.



#41 SlipperyDiff

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 00:29

Also RB have used their 'joker' for gear ratios (according to Brundle) and they are incredibly short. They will have virtually no chance at Monza, Spa and anytime they are in a dogfight with a Merc because as we saw with Vettel in China trying to get past Alonso after the first round of stops, they aren't nearly geared long enough (hit 8th on small straight at Bahrain). 

Brundle may be wrong. After qualifying in China the FIA reported this:

 

"It was confirmed for all cars that the gear ratios used during the remainder of this Event belong to the

gear ratios declared to the FIA technical delegate at or before the first Event of the 2014

Championship."

 

There were no other reports about ratios for the rest of the event.



#42 bourbon

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 00:40

Prost says: "But the most important thing is to work and make progress as soon as possible. Let's wait and see another two or three races and it could be quite different."

Journalist writes: "Formula 1 - Prost predicts engine battle swing"

Forum poster writes: "Prost: Renault will get the upper hand over Mercedes"

This. Prost does not run his mouth randomly like so many others...

Edited by bourbon, 30 April 2014 - 00:44.


#43 kspeedracer

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 06:44

I'll have whatever he is smoking.

#44 Absulute

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 07:27

Prost is the best.

 

If he says it will happen, it will.  :up:

 

The best what?

 

Unless the answer is 'The best PU engineer', I'm not sure his words really matter much.



#45 ForzaGTR

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 08:51

I think it's highley likely that Merc will stop improving their engine and car to allow others to catch up, right...? :rotfl: :drunk: :lol: :wave:



#46 lbennie

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 09:16

I think it's highley likely that Merc will stop improving their engine and car to allow others to catch up, right...? :rotfl: :drunk: :lol: :wave:

 

The way Red Bull develop - i don't think it will matter too much  :smoking:

/banter


Edited by lbennie, 30 April 2014 - 09:24.


#47 Exb

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 09:25

Well Renault don't seem to think there engine will be good enough to match Mercedes:

Quizzed on if Renault will be able to match Mercedes this year, Taffin replied: "It is very difficult to say, because when we get to the point at which we have the same amount of energy around the lap, it is all about having maximum power. How do you compare power? You go into the games of drag level and so on, but one thing we can say is that Mercedes is quicker down the straights and quicker round the lap, so I presume that they have got a better engine than us."

http://www.gpupdate....cent-in-canada/

 



#48 SlipperyDiff

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 14:54

All Remi needs to do is rerun the final laps at Bahrain where the 2 Mercedes were fighting and still putting a 2+ second a lap spanking on the field. That's the reality.