30 replies to this topic

[LHamilton0810]

With GP2 seemingly losing its place as F1's 'feeder series' over the past few years to the Formula Renault 3.5 Series, would this be a good idea? I think myself that it is an effective method for bringing GP2 back to its somewhat 'rightful' place in the tiers of motorsport categories. One disadvantage would be if a driver who possibly doesn't particular deserve it wins although many could argue that luck doesn't come into it. This could be if a driver who has been in GP2 for 4 years just pips a rookie driver to the title even though in reality, the rookie in his first season has done a better job. Another example could be a driver with poor machinery or a team with a low budget just misses out to a driver in the best team with the most sponsorship backing. Because of this, an automatic drive for the champion could be ineffective. I mean, with the last 2 GP2 champions missing out, the F1 teams must have believed that they didn't deserve a place. This however may not be the case with the lower teams possibly searching for a driver with money and sponsorship over talent who may have wanted to sign them. Its probably to risky for a young driver with no F1 experience at a Grand Prix weekend to go straight into one of the top teams even though Lewis Hamilton managed it with McLaren and probably would've won the F1 World Championship in his first season if it wasn't for his and the team's mistake in China when he stayed out for to long causing his tyres to drop of the cliff

[Markn93]

Interesting idea, impossible to implement. 

Edited by Markn93, 01 May 2014 - 16:53.

[Disgrace]

If a GP2 driver automatically came in, another driver has to go somewhere. This isn't too far off advocating for a promotion/relegation system of drivers.

[SpartanChas]

No. Valsecchi and Leimer weren't really good enough.

[R Soul]

No. Every F1 team has the right to choose (or try to obtain) whichever drivers they want, based on their needs.

[Spillage]

I don't see a way it can be done without the FIA mandating that one of next years' new teams be purely a 'mule' for the top two drivers from GP2 or something. That might help guys without F1 team backing like Robin Frijns but it wouldn't really be fair on that team to have to change their driver line-up every year. I think ultimately the way to restore GP2 to its previous position is not promotion/relegation, which is unfair on the F1 teams who may end up with a rookie festooned upon them. Rather, it is to make GP2 and, ultimately, F1 much cheaper than its rivals for drivers to compete in, thereby attracting the real talent and ultimately giving them a chance in F1.

[Atreiu]

There should be a draft selection followed by free agency.

 

All drivers with no contracts for the following season who wish to race join the draft pool. Then they are chosen by teams in reverse WCC order. And then the richer buy them out and that's how the smaller will survive and F1 will keep refreshing its lineup.

 

For example, suppose Alonso had no contract for 2015. Instead out an outright renewal, he'd have to join the draft. And Caterham would take him. But Ferrari would obviously want to keep him so they would have to reach an agreement between the three parties. Ferrari would simply buy him out or agree to some sort of partnership, whatever. Then, at the end of the draft, say Caterham had Ferrari powertrains to be supplied for 3 years. Then they'd go to free agency and negotiate with whomever they wanted.

 

And that's the only way we could ever keep the big teams from writing and agreeing to regulations which would purposefully suffocate the smaller teams or leave them in a perpetual state of hoplessness. Because every now and then they'd eventually be cornered by the smaller teams in the market.

Edited by Atreiu, 01 May 2014 - 17:18.

[Seanspeed]

GP2 hasn't lost its place. Things just ebb and flow. GP2 field is more exciting this year than in WSBR, so the tide could be changing back.

[Jon83]

Nope. 

[Nemo1965]

There should be a draft selection followed by free agency.

 

All drivers with no contracts for the following season who wish to race join the draft pool. Then they are chosen by teams in reverse WCC order. And then the richer buy them out and that's how the smaller will survive and F1 will keep refreshing its lineup.

 

For example, suppose Alonso had no contract for 2015. Instead out an outright renewal, he'd have to join the draft. And Caterham would take him. But Ferrari would obviously want to keep him so they would have to reach an agreement between the three parties. Ferrari would simply buy him out or agree to some sort of partnership, whatever. Then, at the end of the draft, say Caterham had Ferrari powertrains to be supplied for 3 years. Then they'd go to free agency and negotiate with whomever they wanted.

 

And that's the only way we could ever keep the big teams from writing and agreeing to regulations which would purposefully suffocate the smaller teams or leave them in a perpetual state of hoplessness. Because every now and then they'd eventually be cornered by the smaller teams in the market.

 

This is not a bad idea and based on the American baseball and basketball-drafts of college-players, right?

 

There is only one problem with it: stats.

 

In American sport, keeping stats of players is incredibly well developed. Sometimes the wrong stats are used, true, but in essence of every college-player the coaches know not only how many points he scored, but also how many passes to points he played, how many possession, his court-movement, and so forth and so forth.

 

In short: the American coaches who have to pick a player from college-teams know pretty well which players they have to pick, so it is also known which players are considered to be a good pick.

 

The stats that are available about say college-players, are not available about racers in the gp2 class. First because they are not being gathered with the depth that is used at basketball and baseball in the States... furthermore, because the stats that are available are so incredibly colored by the machinery...

[Jon83]

If the F1 teams felt these GP2 champions were good enough for a seat, they'd get one. Fortunately we still have teams willing to give talent a chance over money alone. 

Edited by Jon83, 01 May 2014 - 20:00.

[Bloggsworth]

Only if she's good enough...

[Fonzey]

Could the lower teams be offered funding/end of year bonuses for taking on the GP2 champion? I'm not sure of the facts, but I imagine the price for a paydriver in a Caterham isn't quite that of a paydriver in a williams/lotus/etc - so if the team had an option, I'm sure they'd consider taking on the GP2 champ.

 

There will always be exclusions that damage this, Lewis Hamilton for example had a seat lined up with McLaren so why would he go sit in a Caterham for example... it would be in his best interests to finish second in the GP2 c'ship to make sure he doesn't get lumped with the lower team

 

The current state of paydrivers is technically nothing new, F1 historically has always been a rich daddy sport - but I think the lower end of the grid could benefit from some kind of yearly promotion/relegation system as they can't attract the big established names, or afford the decent pay drivers. It could only be good for their development if they had skilled drivers... albeit of a lesser formula.

[MikeV1987]

Nah, a team shouldn't be forced to sign a driver, especially if they have their eye on someone from different series.  Who says these GP2 champs even want to race for a backmarker anyway? I wouldn't tbh.

 

And besides, how much dirtier would the racing in GP2 get if the drivers KNEW their was an F1 seat up for grabs? lol

Edited by MikeV1987, 01 May 2014 - 21:07.

[Prost1997T]

Renault offers reasonably generous prizes to the champions of their feeder series (in a similar vein to what Mazda has been doing in North America for a while). Perhaps a cash payout for GP2 would (hopefully) help talent get a role with an F1 team.

[Atreiu]

This is not a bad idea and based on the American baseball and basketball-drafts of college-players, right?

 

There is only one problem with it: stats.

 

In American sport, keeping stats of players is incredibly well developed. Sometimes the wrong stats are used, true, but in essence of every college-player the coaches know not only how many points he scored, but also how many passes to points he played, how many possession, his court-movement, and so forth and so forth.

 

In short: the American coaches who have to pick a player from college-teams know pretty well which players they have to pick, so it is also known which players are considered to be a good pick.

 

The stats that are available about say college-players, are not available about racers in the gp2 class. First because they are not being gathered with the depth that is used at basketball and baseball in the States... furthermore, because the stats that are available are so incredibly colored by the machinery...

 

 

I get your point but I don't think people should obsess over stats, at least not in racing. No matter all the numbers, we can barely reach agreements in F1. Let alone feeder series.

 

Imagine if such a system existed from 2008 to 2009. Who would have landed seats at Brawn/Honda and Red Bull? It'd have been fascinating.

[rhukkas]

The price of GP2 would go up and up and up.

 

Maldanado pays 20 million or so, so that's the value of an F1 drive. 

 

Motorsport is not a meritocracy, so just forget it.

[noikeee]

 

Should the GP2 Champion be rewarded with an F1 drive the following season?

 

No.

[Seanspeed]

This is not a bad idea and based on the American baseball and basketball-drafts of college-players, right?
 
There is only one problem with it: stats.
 
In American sport, keeping stats of players is incredibly well developed. Sometimes the wrong stats are used, true, but in essence of every college-player the coaches know not only how many points he scored, but also how many passes to points he played, how many possession, his court-movement, and so forth and so forth.
 
In short: the American coaches who have to pick a player from college-teams know pretty well which players they have to pick, so it is also known which players are considered to be a good pick.
 
The stats that are available about say college-players, are not available about racers in the gp2 class. First because they are not being gathered with the depth that is used at basketball and baseball in the States... furthermore, because the stats that are available are so incredibly colored by the machinery...

The problem isn't stats, its the number of positions available and number of players available.

In the NFL, a team is made up of over 50 players. And there's literally hundreds of college teams, each with at least a dozen draftable players each year.

Compare to F1, where there's only 10-12 teams, each with only 2 race seats available, and maybe a dozen qualified candidates in the junior categories to pick from.

It just doesn't make sense at all. I don't think Atreiu was being 100% serious about it, anyways.

[Clatter]

As GP2 is not even an FIA series I see no reason why the winner should be given an automatic spot in F1, and if you did try to make such a rule then what team has to take them on? If they are considered good enough then they will get picked up.

[balmybaldwin]

How about the gp2 winner is funded (funding to go to the team) by the fia to the tune of £10m to drive for an f1 team for his first year to essentially give them a leg up. I think part of the problem is gp2 doesnt have a massive tv audience, so attracting sponsors when going via this route is harder. Fia funding could even it up a bit

Edited by balmybaldwin, 01 May 2014 - 23:50.

[Clatter]

Why should the FIA fund the GP2 winner? If they are going to fund any driver then it should be the winner of their own championships. 

[Atreiu]

I was 30% serious.

[HeadFirst]

Interesting idea, impossible to implement. 

Difficult, not impossible. Just make the GP2 prize enough sponsorship money to purchase a ride, and payable only as such. Call it a legitimate ride buy. Didn't IndyCar have a program like that at one time? Note .... this is not necessarily a GP2 or FIA thing. You want to give any feeder series more ooomph, make the prize funding for the next step up.

Edited by HeadFirst, 02 May 2014 - 02:38.

[Prost1997T]

You want to give any feeder series more ooomph, make the prize funding for the next step up.

 

Thats why I commented on Renault and Mazda doing that for their respective ladders. The Mazda Road to Indy is more straightforward though (and if I recall correctly, pays more money to the champion at each step). Karting shootout competition*->Skip Barber (followed by championship shootout)->USF2000->Pro Mazda->Indy Lights->Indycar.

 

*organised and funded by the Skip Barber Racing School, there are a few others aimed at different types of aspiring racing driver. See here: http://skipbarber.co...rship-programs/

[MrMan]

Is GP2 really losing it's place?

Chilton, Van Der Garde, Gutierrez were in GP2 2012 and then F1 2013. Ericsson was also in GP2 in 2013.

 

Personally, I think that's quite a respectable number of drivers 'promoted' to F1, given that there are a number of drivers in F1 at the moment who have seemingly been there forever. Even Vettel, who is still a young driver is in his 8th season of F1.

 

We may even see less teams on the grid in future with the current furore about spending, there just simply isn't space nor money to promote large swathes of rookies every year.

[noikeee]

A draft thing would be dumb for F1 for a billion different reasons. Who qualifies to get in the draft? Are contracted drivers part of the draft? Do you put limits into how many years a driver can be contracted to? What if a team wants to hire a driver from outside the junior series considered part of the draft? What would it solve anyway, wouldn't the teams in need (first in the draft) rush to sign the paydrivers before the talented drivers nevertheless, hence the draft ending up with pretty much the exact same scenarios we have now? Wouldn't you also end up having talented drivers signed up for teams that have no interest in putting them in the car, and therefore locking them in to pointless 3rd/test/reserve driver roles?

[Prost1997T]

 Ericsson was also in GP2 in 2013.

 

Did Marcus Ericsson really deserve a seat over someone like James Calado (who finished ahead of him in the GP2 standings)?

[Bloggsworth]

Who wins the championship is not all that relevant, what is is the potential team managers can see in certain drivers - "Why Kvyat" was a cry at the end of last season; I think the answer is self-evident, he has proved a match for Verne who is in his 3rd season of F1. Frequently, team owners/managers see more than we, mere spectators and opinionators do, and usually they are right...

[BullHead]

Is there a GP2 prize system?
I imagine a large percentage of GP2 drivers, especially those that 'stand' out in their career acheivements do get opportunities to test with F1 teams, somewhere down the line.

[HeadFirst]

Thats why I commented on Renault and Mazda doing that for their respective ladders. The Mazda Road to Indy is more straightforward though (and if I recall correctly, pays more money to the champion at each step). Karting shootout competition*->Skip Barber (followed by championship shootout)->USF2000->Pro Mazda->Indy Lights->Indycar.

 

*organised and funded by the Skip Barber Racing School, there are a few others aimed at different types of aspiring racing driver. See here: http://skipbarber.co...rship-programs/

Exactly. That's why a road to F1 needs to be mapped out.