103 replies to this topic

[ardbeg]

Usually one has a pretty good idea of why a car is dominant, but I can not figure out Mercedes. Is it the aero? The PU? Of course it is both, but is there something specific that the have and the others don't?

 

Feels weird to write PU instead of "engine", but I guess we have too get used to it.

[hollowstar]

It's the tires

 

[ardbeg]

They have their own tires?

[Nahnever]

Dominant engine + The best aero (don't care what the pundits say) + Best tire management + Great drivability + Great budget + Many years preparing for this moment + Two amazing drivers (with one being Lewis Hamilton) = ??

Edited by Nahnever, 10 May 2014 - 15:29.

[Vesuvius]

Best overall package.

[SirT]

I remember fans of other teams were mocking them for having multiple technical directors for the last 2 or 3 years. 'Too many cooks', 'This will never work'

 

Well maybe, just maybe it was money well spent?

[GrumpyYoungMan]

It is the way the whole package is integrated - Chassis / PU

[NateF]

Secret ingredients. Two well know Hamilton fans (Jrg 19 and PurpleHam) nobly sacrificed themselves for Project Hamilton WDC 2014. They were fed to the Kraken. We give our thanks to them.

[kedia990]

Wouldn't be much of a secret if we knew about it, eh? 

Edited by kedia990, 10 May 2014 - 15:35.

[hollowstar]

I was joking. I don't believe for a second it's the tyres, or at least tyres are secondary.  From what I could read here and there on articles or even from Obi Wan Offiah on this forum:  

 

- They have a great, powerful PU in itself

- The way the turbo is designed makes it generate less heat than other engines... therefore they don't have to sacrifice aero as much as others

- In addition to the previous point, they have an innovative cooling system

- It is said that MGU-H and MGU-K are working more efficiently than other teams as well... they recover more energy while braking and by other means, which means they may even start lighter on fuel than other

- The car is gentle with the tires, and I don't believe it's due to luck in any way

- The car is beautiful (worth 0.5 tenths / lap, from what I've read)

- Lewis Hamilton

- Not to forget, a great, impressive design!

 

Thank you Ross, Bob & Aldo 

[jesee]

I think the FRIC is playing a big part. I must say Ross Brawn is a genius and why the hell they could not hold onto him i will never know. Benetton, Ferrari then Brawn GP then W05...this guy has a magical touch.

[kimster89]

Maybe their secret is hard work

[Peter Perfect]

They started earlier than the other teams, spent more than the other teams and most importantly they maximised both. It's one thing to have greater resources than anyone else but it's another to make the most of them. They collected together some top brains to bring everything together.

[MikeV1987]

Works teams will always have an advantage, especially now.

[LeonardoV]

[GoldenColt]

They are finally not hanging their balls into swimmingpools anymore.

[ForzaGTR]

Best engine

Best Aero

Huge resources

Great drivers

[FenderJaguar]

it looks as if they have some kind of traction that other cars don't have. maybe it is in the software of the engine. no idea. it looks more driveable and they are further into the development of the new engines than the other teams

Edited by FenderJaguar, 10 May 2014 - 16:09.

[Longtimefan]

IMO it's a combination of best engine, best PU layout/design and FRIC.

[ardbeg]

Just better on the details? I have a hard time to believe that gives them a full second on the next best. Cooling? Yeah,  why not. Or maybe less heat generation? Heat is lost (in this case) energy and if you produce less, you need to cool less.

[Andrew Hope]

Silver cars drive faster.

[Tomecek]

Nicely described here:http://plus.autospor...rcedes-success/

[Szoelloe]

Brawn. Better hope he retired for good.

[Rickyf1]

Nicely described here:http://plus.autospor...rcedes-success/

Can't read it. I have to subscribe. 😟

[Bartonz20let]

Brawn. Better hope he retired for good.

No disrespect to the man but I very much doubt that one man is responsible for the sucess of an organisation with 100's of staff, multi million pound investment over multiple years. He contributed but he was part of a much larger machine.

[Szoelloe]

No disrespect to the man but I very much doubt that one man is responsible for the sucess of an organisation with 100's of staff, multi million pound investment over multiple years. He contributed but he was part of a much larger machine.

 

He put that staff together, molded that organization, and he spent the multimillion you mention in an effective way. He has done that in/with every team he worked with. So, it is better to pray Brawn is gone for good, at least concerning Merc.

[ExFlagMan]

No disrespect to the man but I very much doubt that one man is responsible for the sucess of an organisation with 100's of staff, multi million pound investment over multiple years. He contributed but he was part of a much larger machine.

Precisely the situation where you need a single person such as Brawn in overall charge.
Look at a certain red team - similar sized organisation and budget and also an engine manufacturer but alas no-one in overall charge, except for a 'head honcho' who turns up spasmodically and 'helps out'. In the end they bring in a F1 novice on the grounds it is easier to teach him about F1 than to teach a company outsider about the internal politics.

[Coops3]

Merc were working hard when others were dangling their balls in the pool.

[jee]

Best drivetrain + better car and drivers than the other Mercedes powered teams = win

[Risil]

Feels weird to write PU instead of "engine", but I guess we have too get used to it.

 

As far as I can tell "power unit" is an exact synonym of engine. It's not an internal combustion engine, but "engine" is only one of those three words. You could argue that an engine turns stored energy into mechanical motion, and F1 hybrid systems also turn motion into stored energy, but "power unit" has the exact same semantic problems.

 

Fight the power! Don't let the FIA take our words away!

[rhukkas]

If you have more power you can crank on the aero levels. I think RBR probably still have the best aero. If they had as many horses as Merc they'd be able to dial even more in.

 

Merc is just the best overall package.

[ForzaGTR]

It was no secret that Merc were pooling huge resources for the 2014 season way back in 2012, having pretty much switched all development over to the W05 mid way though 2013. They are now being rewarded for their hard work.

Edited by ForzaGTR, 10 May 2014 - 17:39.

[KingTiger]

That white/black sphere in the middle of the car. 

[demet06]

It seems to me that Mercedes has another trick up its sleeve that no-one has found out about yet. The customer PU's for McLaren, Williams and Force India must be very similar if not identical to the Mercedes works PU's because of the homologation rules. It has been suggested that its the packaging of the PU and cooling systems that enables a better balanced car and therefore an advantage but 1.5 seconds? I don't think it accounts for that much time. ​It is definitely not the tyres as all the teams are using the same tyres. The Mercedes may well be kinder to its tyres but surely that would show more towards the end of its long runs. It could be FRIC but they were running that last year too. It could be Petronas with a strange brew giving them more horsepower. They may also have found an aero tweek that produces more downforce, Red Bull certainly has more downforce than the rest of the Renault runners. It will be interesting when they get that PU running with maximum power and better drivability.

I think its a combination of all of the above, packaging, fuel, FRIC and aero. Each on their own would give a small advantage but together they make a much bigger advantage. Its just a good car and credit to Mercedes for doing a fantastic job in producing a car almost perfect for the new regs. Of course it isn't perfect as you can see that the Mercedes drivers are fighting their cars as much as the other drivers on the grid but they're doing it faster!

[repete]

I wouldn't be surprised if the W05 is the most expensive car in F1 history....more than the brawn.

[Timstr11]

-Brawn putting together an excellent team and organisation, instilling a great engineering culture. Hope Lowe can carry that forward.

-Investing lots of resources on the 2014 project starting as early as 2 years ago. Others were too busy chasing performance with their current cars while Mercedes planned longer term and invested early for 2014.

 

Edit: One other thing is the full integration between Brixworth and Brackley. I remember Brawn saying that was one of his goals to achieve. As Mercedes HPP's MD said it, both Brixworth and Brackley were aware of every screw that was going onto the car.

 

I don't think there's one big technical innovation. Just an overall well thought out car with some neat solutions that add up to their advantage.

Which reminds me. They seemingly stopped researching that passive drag reduction system.

Edited by Timstr11, 10 May 2014 - 18:54.

[pingu666]

no one really figured out the red bull

[syolase]

I wouldn't be surprised if the W05 is the most expensive car in F1 history....more than the brawn.

 

Nah, not even close. Look at these numbers from 2003:

 

http://hunnylander.w...elopment-costs/

 

And that is without inflation... 

[krod]

I have it on good authority that they use Magic - Black Magic! They made a deal with... I can't say.

 

Toto Wolf is actually... I can't say, but have you ever seen his feet?

[Bloggsworth]

Easy one to answer. Ever since the new regulations were confirmed 3 years ago, Mercedes have developed the chassis, aerodynamics, engine, turbo and energy recovery systems as one integrated package. McLaren, Williams and Force India would only have got their hands on the physical bits in the middle of last year. The puzzle is, where did Ferrari go wrong?

Edited by Bloggsworth, 10 May 2014 - 18:53.

[ForzaGTR]

Best looking nose = best car ;)

[ExFlagMan]

I have it on good authority that they use Magic - Black Magic! They made a deal with... I can't say.
 
Toto Wolf is actually... I can't say, but have you ever seen his feet?

I don't see any Nestle logos on the car!

[vista]

Nah, not even close. Look at these numbers from 2003:

 

http://hunnylander.w...elopment-costs/

 

And that is without inflation... 

 

Incredible figures! No wonder costs was bound to go down.

[DampMongoose]

Funny to read the threads like this. F1 is cyclical and always has been, whether the recent RB turn at the top has caused the noobs to query the situation I'm not sure. But it's really down to MB's hard work and ability to design a car as an entire entity not a sum of parts. They interpreted the rules better than the others. It's not like they drink their own urine for an advantage or some magic trick that's put them at the top.

[Bartonz20let]

He put that staff together, molded that organization, and he spent the multimillion you mention in an effective way. He has done that in/with every team he worked with. So, it is better to pray Brawn is gone for good, at least concerning Merc.

I agree, he was the perfect man for the job and I personally didn't want him to go but he didn't build the engine for example or come up with the split turbo consept.

His influence didn't help the team when they were building tire eaters so let's not overstate his contribution or understate the fact the team is a sum of a large number of parts all required to perform for sucess,

Thers no reason to believe that Merc are functioning at a lower standard then they would be with brawn at the helm.

[Gorma]

Mercedes just put more time, money and resources in their car than anyone else. Just like Honda did before they quit. The Brawn car was the most expensive F1 car ever made. I think Mercedes' current car is even more expensive considering the power unit. 

[wrcva]

Incompetence of Ferrari building cars and engines is their secret...

[study]

As I mentioned in the live forum, is it such that the Mercedes is so great or that the competition have really dropped the ball and are so crap.

 

I mean so many cars today seemed unable to go round a corner without almost losing it, the Merc was the best at keeping it on the track but even Lewis had some moments.

I've not really seen such a poor display outside of a rain session.

[meddo]

Secret ingredients. Two well know Hamilton fans (Jrg 19 and PurpleHam) nobly sacrificed themselves for Project Hamilton WDC 2014. They were fed to the Kraken. We give our thanks to them.

I just have to quote this, otherwise it will be forever lost between all these hi tech posts. The truth is here.....

Edited by meddo, 10 May 2014 - 21:07.

[bonjon1979a]

They clearly have the best chassis and engine. I don't buy this 'red bull is the better chassis argument' in the slow, medium and high speed bends the merc is quickest. I think we're seeing what happens with a team that is faster but that advantage is exponentially increased by the way the tyres react. Better downforce = tyres working better = faster = tyres working better. It's a spiral to success that we've seem red bull reap the benefit from for the last four years.

Edited by bonjon1979a, 10 May 2014 - 21:16.