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98th Indianapolis 500


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#51 Prost1997T

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 15:21



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#52 Red17

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 16:47

Close call this year, my Super Sunday was almost ruined by a marriage (no, not mine thank you).

 

Kurt Busch doing well so far.

 

By the way, for those who only follow Indycar at the 500, Mike King of IMS Radio has left, he has been replaced by fan favourite Paul Page.



#53 John B

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 16:58

Having a NASCAR Cup win pretty much guarantees Busch a berth in the Chase field, but he still has to finish top-30 points. Despite numerous recent bad finishes he's about 50 points ahead of 30th, in case that becomes a consideration if the Indy race gets delayed.



#54 Prost1997T

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 17:02

Drivers were getting in some runs in packs just now. Looks like a big storm is about to hit the Indianapolis area though...



#55 Prost1997T

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 17:27

102-year old Indycar fan Edith Pittenger gets a two-seater ride with Mario Andretti: http://www.indycar.c...-need-for-speed



#56 BullHead

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 17:56

Nice...

#57 prommer

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 18:07

[quote name="prommer" post="6711748" timestamp="1399924112"]

Gotta love how AJ's ready to pounce whenever there's any weakness to be seen in the field. Like two years ago when Pippa Mann and Jay Howard were helmet-in-hand waiting to take out Alesi and de Silvestro in the Slotii.

How come they didn't try bumping in the end? Lack of engine deal?

 

Nothing was ever said publicly, but it came at the end of a rough month for Lotus where three teams threatened lawsuits and were eventually allowed to jump ship -- as I recall, Katherine Legge at Dragon got her Chevy engine just the day before qualifying.  One would think that Lotus was allowed to save face by running their remaining HVM and FFU cars at the 500 just to say that they ran at the 500.  Those cars were sitting ducks, so some sort of deal had to have been made.  Juan Montoya's grandmother could've gotten a car into the show at that point.  In the end, de Silvestro and Alesi were black flagged about ten laps into the race.

 

As for this year, though, it looks like the weakest link in the field (barring Lazier when he finally shows up) might be Foyt's own Martin Plowman in the 41.


Edited by prommer, 13 May 2014 - 18:08.


#58 Red17

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 18:26

Nothing was ever said publicly, but it came at the end of a rough month for Lotus where three teams threatened lawsuits and were eventually allowed to jump ship -- as I recall, Katherine Legge at Dragon got her Chevy engine just the day before qualifying.  One would think that Lotus was allowed to save face by running their remaining HVM and FFU cars at the 500 just to say that they ran at the 500.  Those cars were sitting ducks, so some sort of deal had to have been made.  Juan Montoya's grandmother could've gotten a car into the show at that point.  In the end, de Silvestro and Alesi were black flagged about ten laps into the race.

 

Spares were a problem too, there were few cars left and word was that neither Honda or Chevy wanted to supply more teams. (the term being that "we are under contract to supply only 33 % of the field and we are over that number already")

If I recall correctly, Indycar management tried to keep the Judd engine on board as much as possible but all finally colapsed when it became clear that Lotus was not going to take action, so the 2 Lotus entries essentially became necessary fillers to reach the magic 33 since no other teams risked renting a T car. After Indy HVM had to brave the rest of the season while Dragon slimed down to a single entry shared by Bourdais and Legge (which also ended badly). The Judd-Lotus engine is probably now hidden very deep in the vaults of IMS with a big "This did not happen" sign. Which probably explains why no big fuss had been made about Cosworth.



#59 Prost1997T

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 18:26

Courtesy of Marshall Pruett:

 

Z0XeLAB.jpg



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#60 stewie

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 19:24

Interesting stuff re: the Lotus situation in 2012 - I was only just getting back into Indycars that year (mostly due to the new car and Rubens B coming over) but I do remember the Lotus engine being total crap. It's a shame really, as I kinda like Jean Alesi having a go in 2012, and a driver of his standard and popularity (well, in F1 anyway) should of had a better run at it. He was certainly very professional in his attempt at the 500 that year. 



#61 jonpollak

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 23:42

Dat Spotters .PDF

http://digbza2f4g9qo...20140513T174120

Jp

#62 paulogman

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 01:53

Just thinking in terms of how close to a 230mph lap they are. Less than a second.

#63 Victor_RO

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 06:45

Just thinking in terms of how close to a 230mph lap they are. Less than a second.

 

And don't forget that they crank up the boost on Fri-Sat-Sun. With good conditions, I expect we'll see a 230mph lap at least for Fast Friday.



#64 Henri Greuter

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 08:51

And don't forget that they crank up the boost on Fri-Sat-Sun. With good conditions, I expect we'll see a 230mph lap at least for Fast Friday.

 

 

 

It is still beyond me why they get that additional boost fro Friday and qualifying and not for the race itself....

 

 

Henri



#65 stewie

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 09:10

It is still beyond me why they get that additional boost fro Friday and qualifying and not for the race itself....

 

 

Henri

 

I would imagine it's to increase the spectacle of the Friday/quali where as the race is as impressive enough when you have 33 cars hitting turn 1 3 wide!

 

Incidentally, an Autosport article from yesterday said there are others beside Kat Legge trying to get a last minute deal - wonder who these could be?



#66 Xpat

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 10:37

So is the maximum starting grid 33 cars? How many will there actually be? In theory any number can turn up for practice and qualifying?
Thanks :) (this is only my second following of the 500) I love that race control website, do indycar only do that for the 500? Will the race be on it?

 

From the FAQ on the IMS site:

 

Q. Have there always been 33 cars in the starting field of the Indianapolis 500?
 
A. No. After 40 cars started in the inaugural race in 1911, the Contest Board of the American Automobile Association (AAA), the sanctioning body at the time, mandated a formula for limiting the size of a starting field according to the size of the track. It was determined that the safe distance between each car spread equally around a course would be 400 feet, thereby limiting the 2.5-mile Indianapolis Motor Speedway to 33 cars. Speedway President Carl Fisher, however, placed a limit of only 30 cars for the "500" between 1912 and 1914 and did not adopt AAA's 33 maximum until 1915. Although there had been numerous occasions between 1912 and 1928 when the field was not filled, the allowed number was increased during the Depression years to 40 cars between 1930 and 1932 (only 38 made it in 1930) and further to 42 in 1933. The maximum has been at 33 ever since 1934, although extenuating circumstances expanded the field to 35 starters in 1979 and 1997.


#67 Henri Greuter

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 11:06

 

From the FAQ on the IMS site:

 

Q. Have there always been 33 cars in the starting field of the Indianapolis 500?
 
A. No. After 40 cars started in the inaugural race in 1911, the Contest Board of the American Automobile Association (AAA), the sanctioning body at the time, mandated a formula for limiting the size of a starting field according to the size of the track. It was determined that the safe distance between each car spread equally around a course would be 400 feet, thereby limiting the 2.5-mile Indianapolis Motor Speedway to 33 cars. Speedway President Carl Fisher, however, placed a limit of only 30 cars for the "500" between 1912 and 1914 and did not adopt AAA's 33 maximum until 1915. Although there had been numerous occasions between 1912 and 1928 when the field was not filled, the allowed number was increased during the Depression years to 40 cars between 1930 and 1932 (only 38 made it in 1930) and further to 42 in 1933. The maximum has been at 33 ever since 1934, although extenuating circumstances expanded the field to 35 starters in 1979 and 1997.

 

 

 

Interesting to notice they failed to mention that in 1947 there were excuses to run less than 33 cars: only 30.

Such a reminder coulc be handy this year and future years....

 

Henri



#68 Brandz07

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 11:24

Nice new livery for Hawksworth.

 

10336603_10152396552623887_8422541641530



#69 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 11:25

For perspective, in 1994 Al Unser Jr qualified at 228mph in the monster Penske* though I don't remember if the apron was still around in 1994. If it was, that probably made the lap a little faster.

 

Just for context, pole speeds in

 

1994 223.9

1994 228 (Super Penske, though Raul Boesel did a 227)

1995 231

1996 236

 

The 90s sure were crazy, were they just cranking up the boost every year or were they coming out with better tires? Those are some hefty jumps.

 

 

 

*If you don't get the book that's just come out about it, read Henri's thorough 8W/Forix write-up on it.


Edited by Ross Stonefeld, 14 May 2014 - 11:30.


#70 Victor_RO

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 12:02

For perspective, in 1994 Al Unser Jr qualified at 228mph in the monster Penske* though I don't remember if the apron was still around in 1994. If it was, that probably made the lap a little faster.

 

Apron was removed between '92 and '93. The last apron pole lap was Roberto Guerrero's run.



#71 jonpollak

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 16:04

In a co-operative agreement between Nigerian Streaming Club and the Hulman family...
IndyCar using YouTube now for live streaming :D
As soon as they send the routing numbers to the bank we get audio too :eek:

Jp

Edited by jonpollak, 14 May 2014 - 16:08.


#72 John B

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 16:48

For perspective, in 1994 Al Unser Jr qualified at 228mph in the monster Penske* though I don't remember if the apron was still around in 1994. If it was, that probably made the lap a little faster.

 

Just for context, pole speeds in

 

1994 223.9

1994 228 (Super Penske, though Raul Boesel did a 227)

1995 231

1996 236

 

The 90s sure were crazy, were they just cranking up the boost every year or were they coming out with better tires? Those are some hefty jumps.

 

 

 

*If you don't get the book that's just come out about it, read Henri's thorough 8W/Forix write-up on it.

 

Didn't FIrestone come back to start a tire duel in 1995? (can't remember if it directly correlated with the speed increases)

 

Still think Al and Emmo not qualifying that year after their 1994 cakewalk (plus Jr almost overtook JV for the title in 95) was one of the biggest upsets in racing I can think of....



#73 Vitesse2

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 16:58

Interesting to notice they failed to mention that in 1947 there were excuses to run less than 33 cars: only 30.

Such a reminder coulc be handy this year and future years....

 

Henri

And only 31 in 1941, although 33 appear in the official classification.



#74 BullHead

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 17:22

Bah. Is it going to stop raining over there?



#75 Xpat

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 17:29

Bah. Is it going to stop raining over there?

 

no

 

Rain in the forecast for the next few days and cooler temps.


Edited by Xpat, 14 May 2014 - 17:32.


#76 Xpat

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 17:57

Mario gets "fresh" with a 102 year old lady.

 

 

http://www.indystar....eedway/9073843/



#77 Prost1997T

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 18:41

Mario gets "fresh" with a 102 year old lady.

 

 

http://www.indystar....eedway/9073843/

 

Too slow, post #55  ;)



#78 racinggeek

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 18:54

Another pretty cool story, although not directly related to the 500, as quadriplegic team owner Sam Schmidt gets to drive the Brickyard once more.



#79 Henri Greuter

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 19:39

And only 31 in 1941, although 33 appear in the official classification.

 

Right, but there had been 33 qualifiers in 1941, in 1947 there were only 30 qualifiers.

 

BTW, maybe it was because of the engine in Ralph Hepburn's car not being named Novi yet (it was the Winfield V8 in 1941) that the car wasn't involved in the fire that wiped out one qulified car on race day morning. Otherwise that would typically have been the kind of luck for a Novi powered car to endure....



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#80 Henri Greuter

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 19:57

Didn't FIrestone come back to start a tire duel in 1995? (can't remember if it directly correlated with the speed increases)

 

Still think Al and Emmo not qualifying that year after their 1994 cakewalk (plus Jr almost overtook JV for the title in 95) was one of the biggest upsets in racing I can think of....

 

Turbo boost wasn't increased officially. There are however ominous signs and reports elsewhere on the internet that Menard was cheating with the boost in 1995, at least during practice and qualifying. So the 1995 pole speed needs an asterix for being suspect.

 

Biggest reasons for the jump in speed during the 90s: indeed the tire war. But in 1996 the track had been paved again and was said to be smoother than ever before so running low to generate more downforce with the sidepods and trim off the rear wing (Less drag) enhanced the straightline speed.

Other factor since 1992 was that the engines became ever smaller and smaller, reducing the frontal area as well as lowering the GC and bodywork behind the fuel cell wich did enhance the efficiency of the rear wing.

The most beautiful examples of what effects this had is when you look to the 1992 qualifying pictures of for example: Roberto Guerrero (Lola-Buick), Bobby Rahal (Lola-Chevy 265A, the first generation Chevy) and any of the Newman-Haas or Ganassi cars (the Andrettis, Cheever and Luyendyk) These four cars were Lola-Ford Cosworth XB's. Have a close look and see how much lower the bonnet and how narrow the upper part of the fuel tank is on the XB powered cars versus the two other cars.

 

Interesting to remember too that due to car restrictions and the track being narrowed in 1993 the pole speed went down from 232+ in 1992 to 223. Had this not happened there is a good chance that 240 would have been broken with ease...

 

 

 

@Ross Stonefeld: thanks for your nice comments.

 

Henri



#81 jonpollak

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 20:05

It's getting very Donald Davidson in here.

(not that there's anything wrong with that..)

 

Possibly the effect of what comes with rain delays?

Jp



#82 Prost1997T

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 21:12

Aleshin having his few minutes of fame before the heavy hitters leave the pit lane :p



#83 HeadFirst

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 21:51

Close call this year, my Super Sunday was almost ruined by a marriage (no, not mine thank you).

 

Kurt Busch doing well so far.

 

By the way, for those who only follow Indycar at the 500, Mike King of IMS Radio has left, he has been replaced by fan favourite Paul Page.

Joke, right? Hahahaha. :rotfl:



#84 Prost1997T

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 22:06

Hawksworth loops it into the wall, halting practice for the time being.



#85 jonpollak

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 23:45



Jp

#86 loki

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 02:53

Hawksworth loops it into the wall, halting practice for the time being.

Rookie...   ;)

 

There are two kinds of drivers at IMS.  Those who have hit the wall and those that are going to hit the wall. 



#87 Indy1988

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 03:53

Have to admit since I am Canadian I am a fan of Hinchcliffe, but after watching the first couple races its hard to not like Hawksworth! 



#88 jonpollak

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 04:15


Jp

#89 Vitesse2

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 09:18

Right, but there had been 33 qualifiers in 1941, in 1947 there were only 30 qualifiers.

 

BTW, maybe it was because of the engine in Ralph Hepburn's car not being named Novi yet (it was the Winfield V8 in 1941) that the car wasn't involved in the fire that wiped out one qulified car on race day morning. Otherwise that would typically have been the kind of luck for a Novi powered car to endure....

True enough, Henri - but it continued the appalling luck of the Gulf-Millers. Poor George Barringer must have wondered what he'd done in a previous life to deserve that!

 

Perhaps whatever it was that bugged the Gulfs transferred itself to the Novi via that old Miller-Ford chassis? :drunk:



#90 ensign14

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 10:02

What was odd about 1941 was there was a 1st alternate (Louis Durant) who did not start - any reason why not?  He did act as a relief driver for a couple of entries that year.



#91 E.B.

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 10:15

I wondered the same about 1957, after Tony George's dad caused that crash. What was the point of alternate starters if you never use them even in situations like that?

#92 Henri Greuter

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 10:18

True enough, Henri - but it continued the appalling luck of the Gulf-Millers. Poor George Barringer must have wondered what he'd done in a previous life to deserve that!

 

Perhaps whatever it was that bugged the Gulfs transferred itself to the Novi via that old Miller-Ford chassis? :drunk:

 

 

About the last suggestion: word has it that the 1941 Winfield V8 powered car was the same one as that was used by Lew Welch in previous years and then in scored a 3rd place with offy Power, in addition to the 4th place of Hepburn in 1941. So that particular Miller-Ford chassis was definitely a competitive car and aone of the more lucky of the bunch.

So if the chassis transfeerded the "Miller-Gulf-Luck" onto the Novi, I can't make that link. Other then that very likely it was the Offenhauser Engineeering Co tha built both the Miller-Gulf engines ($ and 6 cylinders) as well as the Winfield-Novi's.

 

Henri



#93 Henri Greuter

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 10:19

I wondered the same about 1957, after Tony George's dad caused that crash. What was the point of alternate starters if you never use them even in situations like that?

 

That crash happened during the warm up lap with technically the event being started and thus no alternates needed anymore.

 

 

Henri



#94 king_crud

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 11:50

I know I can probably do a google search and find out, but does anyone know if it's being shown on ESPN or BT Sport in the UK? I know it will be on one of them, just wondering which one.



#95 wrighty

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 12:02


Jp

 

Green cars......never trust green cars.....



#96 PayasYouRace

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 12:12

I know I can probably do a google search and find out, but does anyone know if it's being shown on ESPN or BT Sport in the UK? I know it will be on one of them, just wondering which one.

 

BT Sport 1 by the looks of it.

 

You might want to bookmark this site. Essential for UK Indycar fans http://indycaruk.wee...ule--uk-tv.html



#97 stewie

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 14:13

And shock horror, BT Sports actually featured the 500 in a promo the other day!



#98 jonpollak

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 15:11

Handy WTHR 13 Radar
 
And today's LIVE feed
 
 

Jp

Edited by jonpollak, 15 May 2014 - 15:21.


#99 PayasYouRace

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 15:41

Too bad the only thing going on now is a drying track.



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#100 Prost1997T

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 15:55

Too bad the only thing going on now is a drying track.

 

Practice doesn't start until noon.  ;)