124 replies to this topic

[Borko]

So the most dominant cars at the start of the season were Mercedes in 2014, McL in 1988, Ferrari in 2004, Williams in 1992 and Williams in 1996, they all managed to win the first 5 races of the season.

 

I will use all three point systems in order to see the differences between those dominant cars:

 

Mercedes GP results:

 

Lewis Hamilton - Ret 1 1 1 1

 

Nico Rosberg - 1 2 2 2 2

 

 

Ferrari in 2004:

 

Michael Scumacher - 1 1 1 1 1

 

Rubens Barrichello - 2 4 2 6 2

 

 

McLaren 1988:

 

Ayrton Senna - DSQ 1 Ret 2 1

 

Alain Prost - 1 2 1 1 2

 

 

Williams 1992:

 

Nigel Mansell - 1 1 1 1 1

 

Ricardo Patrese - 2 2 2 Ret 2

 

 

Williams 1996

 

Damon Hill - 1 1 1 4 1

 

Jacques Villeneuve - 2 Ret 2 1 Ret

 

 

_____________________________

 

10-6-4-3-2-1 point system:

 

1. Mercedes 2014  = 74 points

 

1. Williams 1992 = 74 points

 

3. Ferrari 2004 = 72 points

 

4. McLaren 1988 = 68 points

 

5. Williams 1996 = 65 points

 

______________________________

 

10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1:

 

1. Mercedes 2014 = 82 points

 

1. Williams 1992 = 82 points

 

1. Ferrari 2004 = 82 points

 

4. McLaren 1988 = 74 points

 

5. Williams 1996 = 71 points

 

______________________________

 

25-18-15-12-10-8-6-4-2-1:

 

1. Ferrari 2004 = 199 points

 

2. Mercedes 2014 = 197 points

 

2. Williams 1992 = 197 points

 

4. McLaren 1988 = 179 points

 

5. Williams 1996 = 173 points

 

So, alongside Williams 1992 this is the most dominant car ever to start a Formula 1 season.

 

Brilliant car really. Great job by Mercedes team. Congratulations.

 

edit:

 

Williams 1996 included since they won all 5 opening races

Edited by BorkoF2012, 11 May 2014 - 22:28.

[George Costanza]

The only thing I can think of a faster car is 1992 Williams and probably a better car given Nigel was 38-39 years old in that car(!).  

  A young Schumacher in the 1992 Williams would have been something too.

Imgine Senna in that car? far quicker and more dominant than 1988.

 

F2004 quite a car too, but also Schumacher was on the slight decline, whereas 2002, he was absolutely on it.

 

We have to take the drivers in to account, I think.

 

F2002, for me, is the most dominant car I have ever seen. Given it got poles and wins up until 2003 San Marino Grand Prix, whereas everyone was using the NEW cars... is absolutely a sign of a killer car.

Edited by George Costanza, 11 May 2014 - 15:55.

[LightningMcQueen]

Sure brawn in 09 warrant a mention no? I've no idea where Rubens finished most of the first 7 races but sure he wasn't that far behind

[Borko]

I didn't include Brawn because they didn't win all 5 races, and Barrichello's results were just 2 5 4 5 2. That's not really in the league of those 4 cars.

[study]

The only thing I can think of a faster car is 1992 Williams and probably a better car given Nigel was 38-39 years old in that car(!).  

 

 

Patrisse was past it aswell, and in his day he was never top notch.

[study]

The Ferrari could have being the most dominant, just that Rubens sucked

[george1981]

I'd say the F2004 was the most dominant of the cars, it was let down slightly by Rubens being the #2 driver. The car not only had speed but it had reliability. If Senna & Prost or Hamilton & Rosberg were in the car then I think it would have had 5 straight 1-2s. The next I'd say was the Williams FW12, although Mansell and Patreses were good, they weren't the best drivers on the grid so to get the results they did shows how good the car was.

[George Costanza]

I'd say the F2004 was the most dominant of the cars, it was let down slightly by Rubens being the #2 driver. The car not only had speed but it had reliability. If Senna & Prost or Hamilton & Rosberg were in the car then I think it would have had 5 straight 1-2s. The next I'd say was the Williams FW12, although Mansell and Patreses were good, they weren't the best drivers on the grid so to get the results they did shows how good the car was.

The fact that Michael at age 35, was going to win 13-14 races in a row in 2004, tells you something about the car itself.

[George Costanza]

Patrisse was past it aswell, and in his day he was never top notch.

 

Indeed he was.

Schumacher or Senna in the 1992 Williams would have been complete washout; 3 seconds faster on pole laps, EASY.

[Borko]

Yes, Williams had no mechanical failures in those first five races on both cars, it was Patrese who spun in the wet Spanish GP. Just like Ferrari in 2004, but Ferrari had no retirements at all.

[George Costanza]

If we are talking about pace, 1992 Williams wins, rather easily. The W05 is clearly a very very quck car; but Mansell, in 92 Williams at Brazil was 2 plus seconds faster than anyone else and 1.1 seconds faster than his teammate; 2.1 seconds quicker than Ayrton Senna.....

Edited by George Costanza, 11 May 2014 - 16:24.

[Borko]

Yeah, that's really scary. But I was thinking just about results.

[SR388]

I'm so glad that it's my driver reaping the benefits of this. I would be up in arms if it was another team.

[Markn93]

Gutted about Vettel getting fastest lap, genuinely. 

[Markn93]

I'm so glad that it's my driver reaping the benefits of this. I would be up in arms if it was another team.

Like your honest approach, how nice and refreshing.

[OO7]

Indeed he was.

Schumacher or Senna in the 1992 Williams would have been complete washout; 3 seconds faster on pole laps, EASY.

I remember many years ago comparing the qualification gaps between Nigel and Ricardo in 1992 with Michael and Ricardo in 1993 and they were virtually identical.

[Borko]

Gutted about Vettel getting fastest lap, genuinely.

Fastest lap lost most of it's prestige in 2010 really. It's all about who pits who for the new tyres last. That's why in recent years we had people like Kobayashi, Bruno Senna, Petrov and Gutierrez setting the fastest lap. But it's ok to see Mercedes not getting at least something, even if that's just the fastest lap

[study]

I remember many years ago comparing the qualification gaps between Nigel and Ricardo in 1992 with Michael and Ricardo in 1993 and they were virtually identical.

 

Yeah, Mansell wasn't exactly slow, he had some brain fade and theatrical but he was one of the fastest drivers out there on his day.

[cpbell]

Though it wasn't F1 (though it was the WDC), the 1952 season for Ferrari must rate pretty high on this list.

[turssi]

Lewis will be going for the straight 18. Wins that is. What are the best victory streaks by a single pilot in a single season so far?

[study]

Lewis will be going for the straight 18. Wins that is. What are the best victory streaks by a single pilot in a single season so far?

 

The only thing is if that happens, Australia will always be "WHAT IF"

[Borko]

Of course he is not going to win all the remaining races. I will be very suprised if he breaks Schumacher's and Vettel's record of 13 wins.

[turssi]

I expect him to win the remaining races. Merc has top reliability, superior speed and Lewis qualifies better than Nico.

[Massa_f1]

Gutted about Vettel getting fastest lap, genuinely. 

 

What an odd thing to be gutted about.

[Massa_f1]

Of course he is not going to win all the remaining races. I will be very suprised if he breaks Schumacher's and Vettel's record of 13 wins.

 

Really. I am Schumacher/Vettel fan and I am expecting Hamilton to smash their records this season. Sad but true.

Edited by Massa_f1, 11 May 2014 - 21:23.

[Markn93]

What an odd thing to be gutted about.

I wanted the set. 

[George Costanza]

Really. I am Schumacher/Vettel fan and I am expecting Hamilton to smash their records this season. Sad but true.

 

I think Nico will win a few races; so I don't think Lewis will sweep them all.

[Borko]

I think Nico will win a few races; so I don't think Lewis will sweep them all.

Some other team will win at least one race for sure. If it happened in 1988 and 2002, it will happen in 2014 as well.

[George Costanza]

Some other team will win at least one race for sure. If it happened in 1988 and 2002, it will happen in 2014 as well.

 

I agree with that. The question is what track? I actually think Monaco or Signapore.

[Borko]

Monaco stopped MSC in 2004 and Mansell in 1992. You never know what can happen there. Some rain at the other tracks might prevent them from winning as well.

[P123]

The 1996 Williams FW-18 also deserves a mention. It won all 5 of the opening races, and sat on pole in 4/5 of those. It also won the first race of the season by over a minute from the nearest competition.

[RubalSher]

Gutted about Vettel getting fastest lap, genuinely. 

 

LOL, so Merc dropped the ball. How disappointing

[Massa_f1]

Monaco stopped MSC in 2004 and Mansell in 1992. You never know what can happen there. Some rain at the other tracks might prevent them from winning as well.

 

I understand what you are trying to say, but reliability is completely different now compared even to 2004. Most of the field finish, and rarely do you now get a GP where a team has both cars DNF. We have not had a full wet race since the 2012 finale, and every time it rains enough to effect the order of running these days the race is stopped.

I hope for the odd Red Bull or Ferrari win, but I have my doubts it will happen.

[George Costanza]

The 1996 Williams FW-18 also deserves a mention. It won all 5 of the opening races, and sat on pole in 4/5 of those. It also won the first race of the season by over a minute from the nearest competition.

 

Very dominant car. The drivers, while were very good, not quite Schumacher level, should tell you how good the car was.

[Vesuvius]

Some other team will win at least one race for sure. If it happened in 1988 and 2002, it will happen in 2014 as well.

definately, RBR is a strong team and they have always in last few years raised their game heavily after summer break..so would put my money on them, also I have faith Ferrari can at least challenge for wins few times (maybe a fools hope=D )

[Dolph]

Too bad Ross was pushed out just before he could enjoy his third super dominant start of the year.

 

 

I mean honestly, how does Merc justify to themselves dismissing Ross!?

Edited by Dolph, 11 May 2014 - 22:08.

[Vesuvius]

Too bad Ross was pushed out just before he could enjoy his third super dominant start of the year.

 

 

I mean honestly, how does Merc justify to themselves dismissing Ross!?

Ross was done with F1, he did help Mercedes to get started on with things...but he also had to step down as Mercedes had bad years in 2010,2011,2012 and 2013 was ok one but Mercedes wanted more...one could even ask if his leaving is the reason why Mercedes is so good at the moment  ;) Toto Wolff I think has made great job to organisize things at Mercedes and has continued legacy that was left behind by Ross.

Edited by Vesuvius, 11 May 2014 - 22:12.

[chrcol]

I think this wont continue tho, after the first pits, other teams were matching and exceeding merc's pace, redbull and the 2 williams and alonso.

[Borko]

The 1996 Williams FW-18 also deserves a mention. It won all 5 of the opening races, and sat on pole in 4/5 of those. It also won the first race of the season by over a minute from the nearest competition.

Yes, you are right, they won all of the first 5 races, but they are not so close to those for teams. I will include them in the opening post anyway, because they won all 5.

[RubalSher]

I think this wont continue tho, after the first pits, other teams were matching and exceeding merc's pace, redbull and the 2 williams and alonso.

 

You forgot to mention Maldonado.

[SR388]

I think this wont continue tho, after the first pits, other teams were matching and exceeding merc's pace, redbull and the 2 williams and alonso.

So how do you explain the 50 second gap from 1st to third?

[teejay]

The other teams slowed to help them look better

[SR388]

The other teams slowed to help them look better

Cheeky stuff. It's nice to know chivalry isn't dead in f1.

[KingTiger]

Really. I am Schumacher/Vettel fan and I am expecting Hamilton to smash their records this season. Sad but true.

 

I don't understand what's sad about it? Hamilton deserves his wins a lot more than Vettel and Schumacher considering his ability, all that he's been through, and the fact that he has an actual competent team mate. 

[Borko]

I don't really see how he deserves it more than Schumacher.

[Tim Murray]

Though it wasn't F1 (though it was the WDC), the 1952 season for Ferrari must rate pretty high on this list.

Indeed so - 5 wins and 5 second places. They followed that up in 1953 with 5 wins and 3 seconds. Alfa Romeo managed 5 wins and 4 seconds in 1950, and that was F1.

[OO7]

Dominant car versus successful car?

[taran]

The only thing I can think of a faster car is 1992 Williams and probably a better car given Nigel was 38-39 years old in that car(!). 

 

 

Patrisse was past it aswell, and in his day he was never top notch.

 

Guess it is time for a history lesson....

 

Mansell was a bit of a slow starter, going from yourneyman status to superstar. While in his late 30s during the Williams glory days, he was always considered one of the fastest drivers (not one of the smartest...). Suggesting he was past it by then is thus a fallacy IMO. And at the time, drivers could continue on at a later age in F1 at competitive levels with many successful drivers in their late 30s...Lauda, Prost, Reutemann, Laffite, Arnoux, Piquet etc.

 

As for Patrese, he was always considered a fast driver. A bit too hard on the material but fast enough to keep Piquet honest. He was generally as fast as Mansell (which came as quite a shock to many) in 1991 but the 1992 Williams was active and Patrese just couldn't handle it as the car didn't give the required feedback for a classical driver as Patrese whereas Mansell could adjust. Which is why Mansell suddenly was untouchable while Patrese 'floundered'. And still was fast enough to be second more often than not.

[MikeTekRacing]

I expect him to win the remaining races. Merc has top reliability, superior speed and Lewis qualifies better than Nico.

Hamilton barely won two of them, head to head to the finish with Nico. 

If this continues at some point Nico will win a battle. He can't come on top always by "track position" and being a bit slower in the race. 

 

he's played his cards great but that won't work forever 

[seahawk]

When talking about speed differrence you need to think of the times. The gaps in 1992 were bigger then they used to be 2010-2013. Last year we were talking about RBR dominace when they were 0.2-0.4 seconds ahead in Quali.