47 replies to this topic

[Ralf Pickel]

Now - what about that : http://silodrome.com...e-lightweights/

 

6 original chassis stashed away in some dusty corner ?

That might impress the DVLA - so, no airbags etc. needed, just a HTP !

 

Ralf

[Stephen W]

Judging by the sort of cars that are getting HTPs I would have thought that would be a formality.

 

The car sounds wonderful but I doubt I could afford one!

 

[Allen Brown]

Original?!   Original specification possible but not original cars.  They are brand new.

[Charlieman]

6 original chassis stashed away in some dusty corner ?

That does sound rather implausible. Other news sites describe the scenario somewhat differently. The six new chassis will use the serial numbers assigned to those which were not made.

[Ralf Pickel]

This does make a bit more sense : http://www.topgear.c...guar-2014-05-14

 

The old-chassis-found-somewhere story would have convinced nobody...

And it is also mentioned that they could not be road registered, which also makes sense after the recent problems with new Bugattis from those nice chaps in Argentina. 

[kayemod]

Original?!   Original specification possible but not original cars.  They are brand new.

Does that mean these continuation cars will have a decent braking system? I had a drive in a friend's standard 4.2 E, and the brakes were scarily deficient by modern standards.

 

Some write-ups in the daily press have been amusing, price estimates have ranged from £200,000 up to 2 million, I'd have guessed something approaching a million but surely not more than that, for anything approaching that kind of money, I'd rather have one of the Eagle recreations. Some of these over-enthusiastic press reports seem to be unaware of the reason that only 12 of the originally planned lightweight Es were built, the cars were a bit of a disappointment and were barely competitive back then, and weren't there problems with the original alloy blocks cracking under the strain? I'm pretty sure that one or two lightweight E racers used the heavier but stronger iron block in their cars, so just how original will these cars be? Regarding performance though, if Adrian Newey had been around in those days to breathe on them, they might have achieved their aim of beating the GTOs...

[RCH]

Ahem... They were more than capable of beating the GTO's, as I'm sure the shades of Messrs. Hill, Protheroe and Lindner would attest! What they needed was a little more interest from Jaguar themselves.

[Doug Nye]

Aah yes - so the modern motor trade is rediscovering the premium-priced instant classic.  Do we recall the last time Jaguar went down this route...XJ2-umm-whateveritwas...?

 

DCN       

[Sharman]

kayemod, on 15 May 2014 - 14:18, said:

Does that mean these continuation cars will have a decent braking system? I had a drive in a friend's standard 4.2 E, and the brakes were scarily deficient by modern standards.

 

 

I lived in Derbyshire (for the effete southerners hilly and twisty roads) and on one occasion contrived to boil the brake fluid in my V12

[Doug Nye]

Whatever we say about classic-era Jaguars - and some of therm I dearly love - they were in many ways always a high-speed accident constantly looking for somewhere to happen.  

 

That was part of the attraction.  

 

DCN

[BRG]

First Lister resumes production of knobblies, now Jaguar with the lightweight, what next?  Lotus suddenly produces the Elan S5?  Ferrari 'finishes off' its run of 250GTOs?  It is hard enough to identify which are real cars and which are con-tinuations already without the original manufacturers joining in.

[Allen Brown]

If only there was a website dedicated to keeping track of old racing cars and sorting the real from the new.

Oh, hang on, I've just remembered ...

:-)

[kayemod]

Whatever we say about classic-era Jaguars - and some of therm I dearly love - they were in many ways always a high-speed accident constantly looking for somewhere to happen.  

 

DCN

 

I wouldn't disagree with that. Back in the early 80s, E-Type owning friend also owned a 3.8 Mk 2. At the time he let me loose in that I owned a Mk 1 Golf GTi, and I'm certain that on any twisty road, my Golf would have left the Jag for dead, it  had plenty of grunt, but on anything but a dry road, the trickiest rear end I've ever experienced, I never felt like pushing the thing. Us (relatively) young-uns raised on FWD hot hatches don't know we're born,cars have been tamed so much.

[Mistron]

Will Jaguar actually BUILD them, or will they more likely be constructed by one of the specialists and sold under the Jaguar banner?

 

Al

[Siddley]

It's an insane amount of money for a car you can't drive on the road due to nanny state regulations. I suppose they'll disappear into the collections of the same 'investors' who artificially inflated the price of classic British bikes to the point where ordinary people can't afford them any longer.
 

One for the likes of the loathsome Chris Evans, Jay-K and that stupid hippy bloke from Pink Floyd to buy.

Yes, I'm bitter   

[Peter Morley]

I wouldn't disagree with that. Back in the early 80s, E-Type owning friend also owned a 3.8 Mk 2. At the time he let me loose in that I owned a Mk 1 Golf GTi, and I'm certain that on any twisty road, my Golf would have left the Jag for dead, it  had plenty of grunt, but on anything but a dry road, the trickiest rear end I've ever experienced, I never felt like pushing the thing. Us (relatively) young-uns raised on FWD hot hatches don't know we're born,cars have been tamed so much.

Years ago a friend with a Dino told me that it was slower than normal Golfs let alone GTis etc.!

But when we had our Bugatti 37A we had a Mark 2 Golf GTi and that couldn't keep up with the Bugatti, especially round corners where the Golf (with stiffened suspension) was on its door handles while the Bugatti wasn't even trying.

 

I suspect that modern cars have reduced driving standards considerably, driving cars with poor brakes and limited road holding makes you far more careful than someone who is certain the brakes etc. are going to work, a friend once hit the largest roundabout in Brussels with his Lancia Integrale when the ABS failed (according to him) which suggests he had rather more faith in the Lancia's systems than I had.

[GMACKIE]

I love it when people compare apples with oranges.

[kayemod]

I love it when people compare apples with oranges.

 

Now you've got me confused, the 3.8 Mk 2 I drove was green, but BRG not apple green, and my Golf was red.

[GMACKIE]

Now you've got me confused, the 3.8 Mk 2 I drove was green, but BRG not apple green, and my Golf was red.

Hope this doesn't go pear-shaped.

[john ruston]

Do you know Messrs Kay,Evans and Mason?

Posting stuff about them is out of order.

There are dozens who buy more cars than any of those at much higher prices,because they can and at much higher prices.

[Dipster]

I wouldn't disagree with that. Back in the early 80s, E-Type owning friend also owned a 3.8 Mk 2. At the time he let me loose in that I owned a Mk 1 Golf GTi, and I'm certain that on any twisty road, my Golf would have left the Jag for dead, it  had plenty of grunt, but on anything but a dry road, the trickiest rear end I've ever experienced, I never felt like pushing the thing. Us (relatively) young-uns raised on FWD hot hatches don't know we're born,cars have been tamed so much.

As a teenager I recall getting a run in an e-type (probably about '68) and having another dream shattered. I found it quite a shock that it simply did not live up to my expectations, particularly the gearbox. There were other cars that were much more fun to drive.

[Siddley]

Do you know Messrs Kay,Evans and Mason?

Posting stuff about them is out of order.

There are dozens who buy more cars than any of those at much higher prices,because they can and at much higher prices.

I loathe celebrities who collect classic cars and bikes, with the notable exception of Jay Leno.

Actually I loathe 99.5 % of celebrities full stop

But for the sake of peace and quiet I'll probably keep my views to myself in future.

[Allen Brown]

You have a very broad definition of "celebrity".  That hippy from Pink Floyd, as you call him, has been a discerning collector of cars for decades and, is famous for being a member of a very successful rock group, not for falling out of nightclubs or sleeping with his teammates' wifes.  Are you saying you have a problem with all people who have achieved fame.  Shouldn't you tighten in that defintion somewhat to people more worthy of your hatred?

[Siddley]

That's a courteous question which deserves a reply but I don't want to derail the topic. So I'll just leave it at that.

 

If we were having this conversation face to face I would now be changing the subject to one we might agree on and buying you a drink

[Allen Brown]

That would work.

[Charlieman]

That hippy from Pink Floyd, as you call him, has been a discerning collector of cars for decades...

Nick Mason is a collector of old cars, in the sense that he owns more than two that are on the road at any time, but he is a racer and an enthusiast too. He earns additional plus points for promoting motoring heritage generally. However we cannot forget that, in a popular band, he was just the drummer ;-)

 

For many years, I believed that Chris Evans was a wazzock. Like us all, Evans has grown up and become more interesting, more complex. He is not a racer but he is an enthusiast. I'd be worried if he turned up on the grid at Goodwood without a preparatory season in club events -- and I would expect him to think the same way.

 

Jay Kay (some bloke from Jamiroquai, a jazz fusion band that never appealed to me) owns an interesting collection of road cars. He seems to buy and sell a bit, and his tastes are eclectic -- he owns some investment cars but he has fun cars too. I've not seen any aspiration to become a racer.

[arttidesco]

"And it is also mentioned that they could not be road registered"

 

I am sure if I was in the market to spend such a pittance on a trifling vehicle like this part of the fun would be finding some jurisdiction which would not give tuppence for our elf and safety so long as the colour of my cash was bonefide.

 

Didn't a member of the Martini empire once get his Porsche 917 road registered in Alabama ?

[Doug Nye]

Having known Nick since a period when I did not even realise he was something of a musician - and when I genuinely assumed that Pink Floyd was some kind of inconvenient skin infection - I would like to confirm that he is not only a genuine enthusiast first and foremost, but also an extremely good bloke ... 'one of us'...

DCN

[chr1s]

First Lister resumes production of knobblies, now Jaguar with the lightweight, what next?  Lotus suddenly produces the Elan S5?  Ferrari 'finishes off' its run of 250GTOs?  It is hard enough to identify which are real cars and which are con-tinuations already without the original manufacturers joining in.

Maybe Lancia will get round to building the other 250 Strato's! 

[Charlieman]

I am sure if I was in the market to spend such a pittance on a trifling vehicle like this part of the fun would be finding some jurisdiction which would not give tuppence for our elf and safety so long as the colour of my cash was bonefide.

You could spend one tenth of the cost of that Jag, or one twentieth, on a car with heritage AND a licence plate. You could have a lot of fun.

[RCH]

"Strato's"

 

I was told by a gorgeous classics student, whom I  had persuaded out to marshal on the RAC Rally, that the plural of Stratos is Stratoy.

[kayemod]

"Strato's"

 

I was told by a gorgeous classics student, whom I  had persuaded out to marshal on the RAC Rally, that the plural of Stratos is Stratoy.

 

Ah, we have a serious rival for the long standing dilemma of how to refer to more than one Lotus.

[Siddley]

Am I going to do the Alan Partridge Lexus joke or will someone else ?

[GMACKIE]

Ah, we have a serious rival for the long standing dilemma of how to refer to more than one Lotus.

I suppose 'Sratossers' is out of the question ?

[Lee Nicolle]

As a teenager I recall getting a run in an e-type (probably about '68) and having another dream shattered. I found it quite a shock that it simply did not live up to my expectations, particularly the gearbox. There were other cars that were much more fun to drive.

Yes compared with anything modern at the time they felt archaic. graunchy gearboxes, average brakes and a big harsh [and gutsy] engine. That any American pony car would wup and probably many sporty sedans 4 6 and 8 too.

But still a pretty car though oh so narrow track.

[Lee Nicolle]

You have a very broad definition of "celebrity".  That hippy from Pink Floyd, as you call him, has been a discerning collector of cars for decades and, is famous for being a member of a very successful rock group, not for falling out of nightclubs or sleeping with his teammates' wifes.  Are you saying you have a problem with all people who have achieved fame.  Shouldn't you tighten in that defintion somewhat to people more worthy of your hatred?

Plenty of sports people with a  real interest in classic cars,, and the money to do it. Sometimes their only redeeming asset.

Though to a degree a cause of the prices, the wealthy rockers and sports people can pay more than the cars worth.

This too obviously applies to the so called upper class rich,,, though it seems many of them are not in the same spending league these days. 

[john ruston]

Mr Kay has an international race licence and raced a 901 Porsche two weeks ago in Italy in a Patrick Peter series for Pre 66 GT cars.

Chris Evans is doing the old car brigade a favour by bringing old cars to the attention of the younger set with his enormously successful Carfest festivals.

To suggest that Nick Mason is anything other than one of UK's foremost collectors is nonsense.

I am not aware that any of the above are the really big spenders in the old car world.

The anti posts smell of good old British envy with not a shred of evidence. They make their money in some peoples opinion in an odd way but many of the big spenders are City boys or expats but that line of discussion could open another can of worms.

[RCH]

I believe that none other than Colin Chapman stated that the plural of Lotus is... err..... Lotus.

[Doug Nye]

Sharing a Stratos on a Welsh forest rally stage with a well-known big-built male driver whose name (at this time of the morning) I simply cannot recall, convinced me that the cabin was based upon the inside of a Bell Star full-face crash helmet.  We were sitting inside the damned thing, peeking out through the shaped visor slit (the windscreen).  Weird experience - stormingly great car.  Not at all like an E-Type Jaguar...  Coventry's finest were, in truth, too dull for that.

 

DCN

[BRG]

Yes compared with anything modern at the time they felt archaic. graunchy gearboxes, average brakes and a big harsh [and gutsy] engine. That any American pony car would wup and probably many sporty sedans 4 6 and 8 too.

 

In 1961 when the E-Type was released, there were no pony cars.  And when the first of those, the Mustang, came along in 1964, its performance was very similar to the Jag. 

[Snakedriver]

For the most part, it is rather easy to put "plates" on a car and drive it legally.  So no problem on this side of the pond.  In fact, not knowing the rules in the UK, I would suggest that it may be easiest to leave the car with me for a year or so, ship it back and then re-register it in its proper year.

 

Just offering,

 

Leo

[chr1s]

I believe that none other than Colin Chapman stated that the plural of Lotus is... err..... Lotus.

When commentating, James Hunt would always refer to them as Loti

[kayemod]

When commentating, James Hunt would always refer to them as Loti

Loti was what most (relatively) minor Lotus employees like me called them as well, probably because it irritated a few diehard older purists in the Company.

[AAGR]

Let's be quite clear about this. When Jaguar 'make' the handful of new lightweight E-Types they will actually not do that. Instead, they will assemble them from a mountain of bits supplied by outside specialists. Don't forget that the only 'in-house' components used in original lightweights were the engines (even the gearbox came from ZF), and nowadays Jaguar is not capable of making XK engines any more. Body tubs came from Abbey Panels - from where will the new/old ones come ?

 

  OK, my coat is already hanging behind the door ....

[Doug Nye]

'Lotuses' is, was and always will be correct - British company, British product, British term. Never trust the British motor industry's grasp of language - a GP Sunbeam frame with 'FRUNT' punched into its sharp end - Jaguar referring to the D-Type's forward sub-frame as 'The Chassis', its midship monocoque as 'The Body'...sewing the seed for endless identity debate and argument in future years... 

 

DCN

[SWD]

no great surprise but all 6 sold - price tag north of £1 million

[karlcars]

The engines will be built from scratch by Crosthwaite & Gardiner.

[BRG]

Are they doing the engines for the new run of Lister knobblies as well?