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Pirelli 'Open' To Changing Tires To Be Less Conservative


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#1 Elissa

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 16:23

Seriously why can't they just let the tires be a part of the car, not the deciding factor of the car!!!

 

You just know they're gonna tinker around with it, IMO this is down to the lack of advertising exposure they're getting, nobody has talked much this season about tires. 

 

Quote:

 

“Maybe sometimes we will see during the season – as the cars improve – that probably some of our choices are a bit conservative, because as they reduce the amount of wheel spin and the amount of sliding, that means that there is less problem from the tyre overheating,”

 

http://www.jamesalle...tive-this-year/

 

:down:  :down:  :down:  :down:  :down:  :down:


Edited by Elissa, 15 May 2014 - 16:26.


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#2 ToniF1

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 16:26

because as they reduce the amount of wheel spin and the amount of sliding, that means that there is less problem from the tyre overheating,”

 

 

So let's make some problems... :stoned:



#3 sabjit

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 16:42

I believe they need unanimous support to change the tyres unless for Safety reasons. And I imagine some teams want the tires to stay the same.

 

I want them to stay the same, because to me, the tyres currently just wear out whether you push them or ballet dance them. Which means we can have some proper racing.



#4 Tommay

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 16:45

I thought that thy has got the tyres about right, pushing hard keeps them going for longer but they still do degrade

#5 meddo

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 16:50

I don¨t think they're saying that compounds will be changed, rather, they will bring softer compounds of the existing bunch to some circuits that were designated for harder compounds.



#6 Massa

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 17:24



I believe they need unanimous support to change the tyres unless for Safety reasons. And I imagine some teams want the tires to stay the same.

 

I want them to stay the same, because to me, the tyres currently just wear out whether you push them or ballet dance them. Which means we can have some proper racing.

 

 

The drivers are not agree.

 

At the last race, the tyres were wearing out because cars had no grip and they were sliding way too much. The tyres were too hard.



#7 meddo

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 17:28

Hard tyre is the only unknown compound for all teams this year. All other compounds are pretty much last years compound, Ie. supersoft i soft, soft is medium, medium is hard, hard is unknown..and that¨s why hards were troublemakers this year.



#8 Risil

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 17:28

FOM needs to use some camera angles to show off the cars sliding around on the hard tyres. Then we can see if we want Pirelli to change the compounds for the sake of "the show".



#9 Jovanotti

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 17:30

It's not the first time I'm saying this here: why don't they let the teams choose two compounds out of the range for every GP? It wouldn't increase the number of tyres they have to bring, and it brings back the (although small) notion of the concept of customer tyres. Teams that are able to build a car that treats its tyres well would be rewarded, but others wouldn't be punished as severely as we saw it last year with Mercedes for example.



#10 Seanspeed

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 17:30

I don¨t think they're saying that compounds will be changed, rather, they will bring softer compounds of the existing bunch to some circuits that were designated for harder compounds.

That's how I read it.

And Pirelli definitely have been brought on to be a factor in helping produce exciting racing, so lets not act like they're acting autonomously in all this, just messing with the show for their own benefit.

#11 Seanspeed

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 17:32

It wouldn't increase the number of tyres they have to bring

That's exactly what it means, though.

Edited by Seanspeed, 15 May 2014 - 17:33.


#12 Jovanotti

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 17:34

Because it means Pirelli have to produce far more tires for each weekend, only to have most of them go to waste because the teams only choose half of them.

Its a cost issue.

How many days/weeks in advance do they produce their race tyres? Let's say the teams have to nominate their compounds one month in advance, track surface is hardly unknown to them and if it rains, it's full wets and intermediates for everybody anyway. The number of tyres per driver remains the same.


Edited by Jovanotti, 15 May 2014 - 18:50.


#13 Jerem

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 17:37

These tyres are crap, but I want them to stay the same until the end of the year. It's getting annoying that rules are being changed during the season, it's just an artificial way to screw those who did a better job. Keep the tyres as they are and get rid of Pirelli ASAP, or at least get another manufacturer to compete with them. Costs don't matter anyway.



#14 bub

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 18:05

Meh. Having more pit stops doesn't really increase my enjoyment of F1 nor does it decrease it. 



#15 Shiroo

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 18:13

**** me. No. Tyres are frickin perfect now. Drivers push on them, we see real battle, not people hitting the ****in cliff. Can't we keep the racing on instead of "Ima win with the best tyre management because tyre management stronk". For god's sake, enough is enough. I frickin knew that when I will say: Wow Pirelli well done, 5/5 races perfect, they will be like OH NOT ENOUGH OF PIRELLI IN F1 NEWS :<



#16 ollebompa

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 18:17

This is why we need free testing. Pirelli are fully capeble of makeing well suited tires for F1. They are not being given a fair chance.

#17 chipmcdonald

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 18:24

Someone is pushing Pirelli to run the softer compounds because the lap times are slow.

 

I'd prefer the tires not be a factor and have the cars slide around.  If they're slower than GP2, how about unrestrict the fuel flow and let the cars run free as they should?

 

More bs tinkering - there are ulterior motives.  I am increasingly suspecting all of "this" is to set up GP2 to subsume F1 post-Bernie.  It's too unreal for it to be anything else.



#18 KingTiger

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 18:41

Tires have been very good. The last thing I want to see is the crap tires of 2011-2013



#19 SenorSjon

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 18:50

We just need a tire war to end all this tinkering around for the 'show'. Why is the audience leaving then?



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#20 pdac

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 18:53

Too much faffing around with tyres.Pirelli should just declare what compounds they will be bringing to all of the circuits before the season starts and leave it at that.



#21 f1RacingForever

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 18:59

How hard is it to produce a tire that has both durability and good grip? Bridgestone made it look easy. I understand that Pirelli have been asked to produce these mickey mouse tires but i am really tired of tires being the big story. There is far too much emphasis on tires and how they effect certain cars differently from others. When you have teams struggling to get tires working properly then something needs o be done. It would be unfair to change things this year but if i had one wish it would be to have Bridgestone return and give us tires similar to what we had in 2010. With DRS and the current ERS systems we have now, these crummy tires are no longer necessary.



#22 Fastcake

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 18:59

The tyres are fine currently and I see no need to differ from the compound choices we've seen so far. Thankfully we've seen no repeat of last season, but at least Pirelli have finally received the track testing they desperately needed.



#23 Clatter

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 19:01

Too much faffing around with tyres.Pirelli should just declare what compounds they will be bringing to all of the circuits before the season starts and leave it at that.

I'd say the decisions are being made to early and they can't then react if the weather conditions are not as expected.



#24 Clatter

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 19:03

How hard is it to produce a tire that has both durability and good grip? Bridgestone made it look easy. I understand that Pirelli have been asked to produce these mickey mouse tires but i am really tired of tires being the big story. There is far too much emphasis on tires and how they effect certain cars differently from others. When you have teams struggling to get tires working properly then something needs o be done. It would be unfair to change things this year but if i had one wish it would be to have Bridgestone return and give us tires similar to what we had in 2010. With DRS and the current ERS systems we have now, these crummy tires are no longer necessary.

So you understand that Pirelli are bringing what doing what they have been asked, but BS is the answer?



#25 Atreiu

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 19:11

I have never seen a mere supplier be such a huge attention whore like Pirelli.

 

Where is Brembo saying they could make less effective brakes if the teams asked them to? All in name of the show.



#26 f1RacingForever

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 19:19

So you understand that Pirelli are bringing what doing what they have been asked, but BS is the answer?

I don't think Pirelli were asked to produce a tire which were so hard like we saw at Spain were teams were sliding all over the place like they were driving on ice. I don't think that's what the teams on F1 had in mind when Pirelli were asked to be the tire supplier. Teams are having problems getting them up to temperature and that is Pirelli's fault The tires are flawed from that perspective. Go back one year and tires were falling apart like they were made of cheese. Silverstone 2013? They just can't find a proper balance. When you have 90% of the teams saying tires are too conservative like at Spain and Hembrey completely unconcerned by these comments, i question just how beneficial this type of relationship is for teams.



#27 grunge

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 19:37

Dear O dear,i dont understand all the hate towards Pirelli..theyre only doing what theyve been told to.
About being in the news,well they kind of deserve it..F1 is a huge investment for them and ud expect them to get the right amount of positive publicity for it..specially since its been mostly negative past 2 seasons.

#28 pdac

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 19:58

I'd say the decisions are being made to early and they can't then react if the weather conditions are not as expected.

 

I'm not convinced there is ever time to react to weather conditions. I would say a guess at the start of the year would be no less accurate. Anyway, as people always say - it's the same for everyone.



#29 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 20:04

I have never seen a mere supplier be such a huge attention whore like Pirelli.

 

Where is Brembo saying they could make less effective brakes if the teams asked them to? All in name of the show.

 

They will do it exactly when they are asked to provide spec brakes designed to increase the show in the same way Pirelli has been.



#30 Goron3

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 20:10

**** me. No. Tyres are frickin perfect now. Drivers push on them, we see real battle, not people hitting the ****in cliff. Can't we keep the racing on instead of "Ima win with the best tyre management because tyre management stronk". For god's sake, enough is enough. I frickin knew that when I will say: Wow Pirelli well done, 5/5 races perfect, they will be like OH NOT ENOUGH OF PIRELLI IN F1 NEWS :<

He's saying they would be more aggressive with the tyres they took a GP; not that they'd create new, fast degrading tyres. The hard tyre for Spain was a terrible choice as it was FAR too hard; no one other than Merc could use the damn things.



#31 charly0418

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 20:34

For what its worth Alonso, Perez and Hulkenberg complained that the tires were giving no grip in Spain.

 

Obviously drivers will always complain but they did point this out. Don't see why Pirelli shouldn't be able to add more grip to the tires.  



#32 NotAPineapple

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 21:22

ffs Pirelli, you finally have made an acceptable tire and now you want to start playing games again...



#33 Seanspeed

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 22:09

I have never seen a mere supplier be such a huge attention whore like Pirelli.
 
Where is Brembo saying they could make less effective brakes if the teams asked them to? All in name of the show.

They actually do make brakes less capable than they could. Due to the regulations on materials.

And there's been talk here and there about going to steel brake discs again, to reduce stopping distances.

Don't act like this is some unheard of concept.

#34 TomNokoe

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 22:14

Well they are taking SS and S to both Monaco and Canada, you'd assume similar for Austria as well. Strange time to come out and say this.

Edited by TomNokoe, 15 May 2014 - 22:15.


#35 noikeee

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 22:42

I just finally watched the Spanish GP. That was a good race, with the various strategies creating a lot of interest. However despite the tyres being "too hard", people were still doing 2 stop and 3 stop strategies, and were being occasionally instructed to watch out to save tyres even when attacking other drivers. So now they're open to making the tyres softer... what the hell?



#36 RubalSher

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 23:37

Yayyy let us have a 5 stop race.



#37 turssi

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 01:00

What sport changes rules mid-season? What sport raises money by applying big dollar fines to those who break badly written rules? What sport gives spoken instructions to tire suppliers and then leaves them alone to take the heat when complicatioms appear?

#38 Ev0d3vil

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 01:35

Damn, Silverstone 2013 again? please no.



#39 Disgrace

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 01:40

Pirelli should set in stone their compounds before the start of the season, and then shut up. The reaction in this thread and to that article suggests nobody trusts Pirelli to do the right thing.


Edited by Disgrace, 16 May 2014 - 01:45.


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#40 chipmcdonald

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 02:53


Obviously drivers will always complain but they did point this out. Don't see why Pirelli shouldn't be able to add more grip to the tires.


They complained that they didn't have any grip. Given that this year they took off a lot of downforce - they are indeed correct, that have less grip.


*We shouldn't be hearing "the tires go off after 2-3 laps". The cars should have enough grip by design, and the tires should last - they should not cripple a driver after 3 laps. As it sits, I say it's another screwed up aspect of 2014 regs; the cars have less grip, and Pirelli makes tires less grippy and durable than Bridgestone and Michelin. That's just the way it is.

Given that - I'd rather they slide around, than to not and be back to "my tires are useless" in 3 laps, anyhow. At this point, again - I'd suggest it's not by design, but that they knew they were not up to Bridgestone/Michelin standards but F1 had to have a tire supplier. So we have this directive to make "deliberately" crappy tires: maybe that's the best they can do?

#41 Atreiu

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 03:27

Difference being Brembo, or whomever, is in the press acting as guardians of 'the show' saying they could alter their products to try to improve racing.

 

Why doesn' t Pirelli keep it to themselves and simply act as a supplier?



#42 boldhakka

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 03:45

Difference being Brembo, or whomever, is in the press acting as guardians of 'the show' saying they could alter their products to try to improve racing.

 

Why doesn' t Pirelli keep it to themselves and simply act as a supplier?

 

I think marketing and press play a role too. Maybe their supplier contract is not priced as high as it could be because of their plan to milk the F1 exposure as they are doing now. 



#43 garagetinkerer

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 04:13

Yayyy let us have a 5 stop race.

There was a 4 stopper at Magny Cours in 2004. Most agreed that it was a stellar performance of the team to win with 1 more stop... You know what, if there's lap-time to be had through tyres, teams will pit more often. I could easily see teams do 3 stoppers or so given the current state of tyres. However, time gained per lap doesn't add up, so teams don't. Supersofts and Softs combinations may be another thing altogether.



#44 garagetinkerer

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 04:17

They complained that they didn't have any grip. Given that this year they took off a lot of downforce - they are indeed correct, that have less grip.


*We shouldn't be hearing "the tires go off after 2-3 laps". The cars should have enough grip by design, and the tires should last - they should not cripple a driver after 3 laps. As it sits, I say it's another screwed up aspect of 2014 regs; the cars have less grip, and Pirelli makes tires less grippy and durable than Bridgestone and Michelin. That's just the way it is.

Given that - I'd rather they slide around, than to not and be back to "my tires are useless" in 3 laps, anyhow. At this point, again - I'd suggest it's not by design, but that they knew they were not up to Bridgestone/Michelin standards but F1 had to have a tire supplier. So we have this directive to make "deliberately" crappy tires: maybe that's the best they can do?

In earnest, i preferred the times when teams could choose what compound they wanted to run with. You always knew which team was doing a better job, but it is all relative.

 

To be honest, i will not be shocked if a couple of teams suddenly become very competitive with softer compounds. For what it is worth, even last year, Ferrari and Lotus were very competitive on softer compounds. Let us see how the dice rolls and what it brings.


Edited by garagetinkerer, 16 May 2014 - 04:19.


#45 Shiroo

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 06:06

He's saying they would be more aggressive with the tyres they took a GP; not that they'd create new, fast degrading tyres. The hard tyre for Spain was a terrible choice as it was FAR too hard; no one other than Merc could use the damn things.

 

No! I do not want "more aggressive picks" on GPs. I know what he meant, but for ****'s sake, racing is frickin perfect now. Just because, people have low downforce or can't use a tyre, it doesn't mean that we need to bring Brie



#46 Lazy

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 06:38

That's exactly what it means, though.

Not if they choose the tyres in advance.

 

Excellent idea I think.



#47 kedia990

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 07:08

It's not the first time I'm saying this here: why don't they let the teams choose two compounds out of the range for every GP? It wouldn't increase the number of tyres they have to bring, and it brings back the (although small) notion of the concept of customer tyres. Teams that are able to build a car that treats its tyres well would be rewarded, but others wouldn't be punished as severely as we saw it last year with Mercedes for example.

 

Seconded. The choice of tyres shouldn't determine the performance of a car at the outset - the performance of the car should dictate the choice of tyre. If a car works well with a certain type of tyre (from among the four alternatives), why penalize them by providing a different type of compound?

 

Going off on a small tangent here, but what are people's thoughts on mixed tyre use? Primes Front / Options Rear (or vice versa), Primes Left / Options Right (or vice versa), all within the bounds of the tyre allocation provided over the weekend. I bring this up, because I've recently started following MotoGP (where they have a mixed tyre use policy), and also this was mentioned in the last F1 race by one commentator. I can't see any downsides.



#48 PayasYouRace

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 07:18

They actually do make brakes less capable than they could. Due to the regulations on materials.

And there's been talk here and there about going to steel brake discs again, to reduce stopping distances.

Don't act like this is some unheard of concept.

 

Aren't brakes limited by tyres? Surely once the brakes are good enough to lock the wheels, there's no point in going further?

 

Have I missed something?



#49 HoldenRT

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 07:46

The problem is that it's a control tyre.  It's not Pirelli's fault that it's a control tyre.

 

If there were tyre development, they'd constantly be pushing the boundaries of grip and wear, and if they did this.. there would always be variety/tyre war and a challenge for teams with the tyres.  It'd a race/war where if you don't push the limits you get left behind.

 

The problem with a control tyre is that it doesn't have that.  The tyre stays the same, which means over time everything settles down and they become too predictable and easy for the teams.  Like a 5th grade maths riddle with a 12th grade brain.

 

So they try to adjust the tyres to compensate for this.  Otherwise every race would be a one stop like it was with Bridgestone, because Bridgestone wasn't ready to sacrifice it's reputation for the sake of the sport and Pirelli have been (and copped a lot of flack for it).  Which is probably what is happening again in this topic.

 

They went over board at times and there were cheese tyres and lotteries.  But it's also good that they are willing to do this at all.

 

It's not so much of an issue now or in 3 races.. but it'll be an issue towards the end of the season, and for every new season where the regs stay the same.  The tyre war was the best, but this is more of a cost efficient compromise.



#50 HoldenRT

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 07:49

It's not the first time I'm saying this here: why don't they let the teams choose two compounds out of the range for every GP? It wouldn't increase the number of tyres they have to bring, and it brings back the (although small) notion of the concept of customer tyres. Teams that are able to build a car that treats its tyres well would be rewarded, but others wouldn't be punished as severely as we saw it last year with Mercedes for example.

 

I like that idea, it was one of the best things about tyre war.  Teams could use tyres customized to their chassis.  They could pick strategies and tyres based on the strengths or weaknesses of their chassis.  I don't even like that they have to use both types of tyre in a race.  I'd prefer they just use one, and can choose whichever compound they wish, as long as they nominate in advance.. so save Pirelli the trouble of bringing all 5 compounds to each venue.