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Tyrrell 001


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#1 f1steveuk

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 13:22

I'm pretty sure I know the answer, but I am open to being suprised! Is there any evidence that Tyrrell 001 was ever retro fitted with the later 002/3/4 type roll hoop, the one with the forward facing braces and the slightly different shape?

 

Curious of Sussex



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#2 alansart

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 14:03

Not sure if this is 001.

 

http://www.modelersi...IMG12801024.jpg



#3 f1steveuk

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 17:46

When Revson raced 001, it was still fitted with the original roll hoop, but I know Derek Gardner didn't like the idea of the bracing going backwards onto the engine. As yet, I've seen no real evidence the later roll hoop was fitted to 001, but that doesn't mean it wasn't. As I say, more out of curiousity than a need to know!



#4 PeterElleray

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 20:35

steve, i am pretty sure that it would not have been possible to have done so - 001 had what looks like a Matra style rear end to the monocque with the short, squared off hoop bolted onto the top of that and of course braced back to the heads of the dfv.

 

002 ,003 and 004 have the full 360 degree hoop spigoted onto the rear of the fuel tank pontoons - the rear of the chassis is actually quite different, 001 doesn't have these hard points and spigots.

 

There are also hard points built into the tubs for the forward facing stays, 001 doesnt have these either.

 

For that matter  the front section of the monocque, besides being longer on 002/3/4 than  001 is also quite different  if you look at it in detail.  

 

Although there is a strong visual resemblance between 001 and these cars under the skin much was changed...

 

Peter


Edited by PeterElleray, 17 May 2014 - 20:36.


#5 f1steveuk

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 12:57

Much as I thought, thank you Peter for confirming it for me. I believe when 001 was new, and still on Dunlops, the top bodywork was actually hand beaten ali' as opposed to fibreglass?



#6 PeterElleray

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 17:32

Steve - yes, i dont think they called it 'SP' for nothing!

 

Very much a tentative 'one off' at first. The only castings i can find on it are the rear uprights and lower link plate - although i think the wheels might have been specials. but perhaps machined to Derek's requirements from an existing casting?

 

someone on here will know.

 

it troubles me that the party line was that it was not a 'copy' of the ms80,

 

i know that placed in the same situation, designing my first f1 car, and with a wealth of existing data to hand within the team for the ms80, (and probably a whole pile of drawings aswell) , i would have taken any opportunity avaliable to me to take a very close look indeed at that information.

 

afterall that car had just won the world championship.

 

i would also have been surprised not to  have been asked to do exactly that by Ken!

 

Derek was quoted many years later as saying that he was trying to aim for something along the lines of the M7 McLaren,, but couldnt get the fuel in (although the m7 did..)

 

I cant see much m7 in it i'm afraid, whereas i can see a lot of ms80 in the front suspension and ,on 001, the rear of the chassis. 

 

Both tub's have 'coke bottle' plan view profiles, but then so did quite a few others in that period, so that, for me, isnt the over riding similarity.

 

I think i am right in saying that Derek was occassionally part the team during 1969, looking after the ferguson side of the ms84, and i was surprised recently to see him in a picture taken in the team's paddock area at the British GP at Silverstone. My first thought was, 'wrong year' but then the reason for his presence became apparent. I mention it because there was yet more first hand exposure to the ms80...

 

I guess it was expediant at the time to distance the car and the team , and Derek's work from any Matra connection...

 

 

 

Peter



#7 David Lawson

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 17:49

I agree that the Tyrrell had some obvious similarities to the MS80 but I would say that your comment that they got the fuel in the M7A monocoque was not quite correct. McLaren ran pannier tanks at the Spanish Grand Prix and a range of smaller additional fuel tanks at some circuits during the season depending on the fuel consumption.

 

David



#8 PeterElleray

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 19:15

David, yes they did and they also ran a grp tank above the drivers legs in a similar position to that fitted on the original lotus 18. My point being that they managed to accomodate the extra tankage  when required. -i think the Lancia tanks were a one - off?

 

Two things spring to mind.

 

One, that the race distances were to be cut in 1971 to a maximum of 200 miles, although i am not sure that this would have been ratified when design work started on the 'SP', and so the m7 concept would have required less 'extreme' measures if and when extra capacity was required (becoming, in effect a monocque similar to the bt34 Brabham), and 

 

Two, the car that to my mind is very similar to the m7, and whichalso  needed extra tankage at some circuits is the March 701. And for fairly obvious reasons (same designer, Robin Herd).

 

And so it does surprise me that Derek's vision for the Tyrrell SP had a starting point in a car that is quite similar to the March 701 which the Tyrrell team and JYS in particular were keen to see the back of. 

 

I would imagine that would have been quite a hard sell when it came to discussing concepts with Ken...

 

And the end result certainly looks like it takes its inspiration almost from the opposite end of the contemporary design spectrum...

 

Anyway, the final outcome was a wonderful testimony to Derek's considerable skills both as an engineer and as a race car designer (and they are not necessarily the same thing, nor to be found very often in the same person).

 

Top Man.

 

Peter



#9 f1steveuk

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 11:40

And thanks for the "extra" info' as well! I met Derek a few times, quite retiring, but wow did he know what he was talking about! I remember like yesterday when he spoke to me about Francois, that, will live with me forever :(



#10 Gary C

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 14:48

I tried twice in the late 90's to film an interview with Derek. I had a contact through my mechanic who looked after me in Historic FFord. I talked to him about 2 years apart, both times he politely declined.  Shame.