103 replies to this topic

[Lights]

So according to various sources, alcohol sponsors in Formula 1 might become a thing of the past soon due to political pressure. The sport of course lost tobacco sponsors during the 00's, and alcohol is next. It's not a question of if, but when.

 

To be honest I've always found it a bit odd to have alcohol sponsors in racing, but especially in recent years the strong 'safe driving' awareness campaigns made up for that. At least that's how I saw that.

 

It would be quite a hit for Williams if this ban happens anytime soon, right after their Martini deal started. Other teams will be hit by this as well, and seeing how there's enough struggling going on already, it's a bad thing for the sport IMO.

[Disgrace]

Because rogue banks, energy drinks, gambling and petroleum are much more health-friendly.

[darkkis]

Then it's R.I.P force india and maybe Williams... It's getting ridiculous. Teams have enough financial troubles already.

[Lights]

Then it's R.I.P force india and maybe Williams... It's getting ridiculous. Teams have enough financial troubles already.

 

That is how some media now portray Force India, but isn't Mallya's brand still mainly about the airline Kingfisher?

[sheepgobba]

Honestly this is just over the top imo. No one forces you to buy alcohol and drive, nor does anyone force you to smoke, it's all about self-control and it might reduce drinking overall but really? 

 

People are unable to take responsibility themselves and will look for a 'escape-goat' to escape reality. 

Edited by sheepgobba, 24 May 2014 - 10:47.

[DainBramaged]

Honestly this is just over the top imo. No one forces you to buy alcohol and drive, nor does anyone force you to smoke, it's all about self-control and it might reduce drinking overall but really? 

 

People are unable to take responsibility themselves and will took for a 'escape-goat' to escape reality. 

100% agree. I was away to reply with pretty much the same thing. The powers that be (certainly in Europe) seem to think we all need to be nannied. People should be allowed to be responsible for themselves - and im talking in general now - You make your own choices; you know the risk, you know the consequences if you do something wrong and accept whatever happens.

 

Back to the alcohol. If people want to drink they will drink. People who don't drink or who aren't drinking at that particular moment in time, don't just see a brand on the side of an F1 car and suddenly have to run to the shop or pub and get bladdered. And if thet do, well they have problems anyway.

[KWSN - DSM]

Orwellian.

 

[saudoso]

When is someone going to start a nice witch hunt on this PC crap? For real, mind your effin business, let people take care of theirs.

 

Frank Williams was the first to ditch tobacco sponsorship - he even got a stop smoking treatment slapped on the car. See all the good it's done to his team.

[Gyan]

I disagree with the smoking ban as well, but I can understand their reasoning. I don't think that extends over to alcohol, and this is simply ridiculous.

 

At this rate we'll need Colorado and Uruguay to sponsor F1. That'll give Sutil a drive at least, so he can continue besting Pierluigi Martini's record for a long time.

[Lights]

100% agree. I was away to reply with pretty much the same thing. The powers that be (certainly in Europe) seem to think we all need to be nannied. People should be allowed to be responsible for themselves - and im talking in general now - You make your own choices; you know the risk, you know the consequences if you do something wrong and accept whatever happens.

 

Back to the alcohol. If people want to drink they will drink. People who don't drink or who aren't drinking at that particular moment in time, don't just see a brand on the side of an F1 car and suddenly have to run to the shop or pub and get bladdered. And if thet do, well they have problems anyway.

 

According to one of the articles "In the European Union 25% of all road deaths are attributed to alcohol misuse and it is estimated that 6,500 deaths would be avoided if all drivers obeyed drink driving laws."

 

Right so do they seriously believe banning alcohol advertisements in autosport is going to affect that number of deaths? I'd be interested in some estimations. My gut feeling is that it would have about the same effect as illegal downloading.

[DainBramaged]

According to one of the articles "In the European Union 25% of all road deaths are attributed to alcohol misuse and it is estimated that 6,500 deaths would be avoided if all drivers obeyed drink driving laws."

 

Right so do they seriously believe banning alcohol advertisements in autosport is going to affect that number of deaths? I'd be interested in some estimations. My gut feeling is that it would have about the same effect as illegal downloading.

In my opinion, although I could be wrong, I think the most alcohol advertising does is make you think about which brand you drink, and not whether you actually drink or not. 

 

I really have difficulty accepting that if someone see's alcohol advertising in motorsport, it makes them more likely to drink drive - I don't see how people would seriously make that connection. If you are stupid enough to take that message away from seeing 'Martini' on a Williams or some whiskey in Autosport then you probably have a lot more problems in life anyway.

[KWSN - DSM]

If it is legal to sell you can advertise, if it is illegal to sell you can not.That is how simple I would make the rules. Want to stop drinking, ban drinking, want to stop smoking, ban smoking. The fact that some will still smoke and drink is outside the discussion, at least the sport allow and disallow what is legal / illegal.

 

[Collombin]

Nobody will drink drive because of an alcohol ad on the side of a car.

On the contrary, I think it's all Ray Dorset's fault.

[Fastcake]

Surprisingly perhaps, the legality of advertising certain products is not decided on Formula One team's sponsorship.

It seems unlikely any time soon though. Tobacco and alcohol are not really comparable.

[Ross Stonefeld]

It was only a question of time, after they restricted tobacco advertising. And it makes sense.

 

And there is far more self-limitation in the alcohol industry than there ever was in tobacco. Lots of alcohol companies won't sponsor any 'action sports' or motorracing. And Heineken(which is one of them) also has a policy of not sponsoring teams/individuals but events. So it's already a kind of weak field. 

[JHSingo]

Rather ridiculous. I watched F1 from a very young age, at the height of the tobacco sponsorship era, and have never had any inclination to smoke.

 

Likewise, these days, despite having been a student at uni for the past three years, I've not been particularly bothered by alcohol either.

 

I very much doubt such sponsorship has an influence on what the audience does. People will smoke regardless of whether tobacco advertising is banned. People will still drink even if alcohol advertising is banned. Time the EU realised that they're just wasting their time.

[Ev0d3vil]

Lets ban champagnes too. Perhaps the drivers will each get a kiss from the grid girls for those on the podium.

Edited by Ev0d3vil, 24 May 2014 - 11:52.

[Disgrace]

Lets ban champagnes too. Perhaps the drivers will each get a kiss from the grid girls for those on the podium.

 

And risk getting mono?

[billm99uk]

Maybe they'll legalise pot and F1 will go for the Stoner demographic?

Edited by billm99uk, 24 May 2014 - 12:35.

[Disgrace]

Maybe they'll legalise pot and F1 will go for the Stoner demographic?

 

It has been foretold.

[jee]

I am waiting for the next big wave of sponsorships that aren't banned yet - porn and sex toys

[Shambolic]

According to one of the articles "In the European Union 25% of all road deaths are attributed to alcohol misuse and it is estimated that 6,500 deaths would be avoided if all drivers obeyed drink driving laws."
 
Right so do they seriously believe banning alcohol advertisements in autosport is going to affect that number of deaths? I'd be interested in some estimations. My gut feeling is that it would have about the same effect as illegal downloading.

As far as I'm aware the stats are massaged to fit the anti drink drive agenda (not that it's a bad agenda in itself). I've had a pint (ok, 90% of a pint.. Back off Brussels, a demi litre is not a pint ;) ) watching wually,. If I now drive to the local shop and someone T bones me out a junction, or slams into the back of me, or runs out infront of me, the incident will add a notch to the incident involving alcohol tally. Even though I'm under the limit and not at fault.

So anyone thinking a vermouth label on a car for a few weekends kills babies needs a bit of an introduction to reality. Road safety is improved by education (and sadly mob rule peer pressure, but that leads to the debate over ends justifying means) not by painting over a few logos on a race car.

[billm99uk]

I am waiting for the next big wave of sponsorships that aren't banned yet - porn and sex toys

 

Well there's the Playboy car in DTM...

[DainBramaged]

I am waiting for the next big wave of sponsorships that aren't banned yet - porn and sex toys

Aren't Force India sponsored by sex toy company? If not, wtf is that on the front of their car?

[jee]

Black mamba

[king_crud]

And risk getting mono?

can you get mono from riding the monorail?

[l8apex]

Banning alcohol sponsorship will be nothing but bad for the sport.  Increasing costs while removing sponsorship opportunities will hurt.

 

All the nanny states should piss off and leave things alone.

[BullHead]

Like any sport, motorsport has to adapt to whatever the advertising market is. Much like all media has to. Advertising trends change, it's really not that big a deal IMO. I mean, is motorsport particularly sponsored by alcohol over other products? And more so than other advertising vehicles? Not really, alcohol never really became the new tobacco, which in itself only became so big because they had nowhere else left to advertise. Sponsorship is a hard game whatever the source.

[turssi]

That is how some media now portray Force India, but isn't Mallya's brand still mainly about the airline Kingfisher?

The Kingfisher brand exists primarily for the beer, right?

[Tsarwash]

While I would not support any kind of ban, I never thought that motorsport was a suitable place to advertise any kind of alcohol.

[krapmeister]

Banning alcohol sponsorship in sport would have MASSIVE implications for Australian sport, not just motorsport. Cricket, football (AFL, Rugby, League) tennis (Australian Open), Horse Racing etc etc all have large amounts of sponsorship/advertising from the alcohol industry. I can't see them wanting to let go of that easily...

[HaydenFan]

While I would not support any kind of ban, I never thought that motorsport was a suitable place to advertise any kind of alcohol.

 

Advertising alcohol in general. But it's advertising. Whether it falls under those common sense rules or not. I mean you had Penthouse and Durex in the past in F1. These companies fit motorsport so perfectly. Motor racing is a fringe part of society. The alcohol, tobacco, glamorized sex sponsors are the fringe activities. 

 

Why had the energy drink market fit motorsport so well? They are fringe companies. 

[Jimisgod]

Time to please 3 feminist, t-total old ladies who don't watch F1.

[SR388]

Booze and fast cars are a winning combination. I am unhappy.

[slideways]

I support individual freedoms such as tobacco, alcohol and even marijuana consumption. However a modern society should ban advertising as it leads directly to an increase in uptake, and additional drain on healthcare systems etc.

 

-smoked when a stupid impressionable youth

-drinks too much (including a johnnie walker or vodka red bull at the f1)

 

 

 

Realistically F1 has a long way to go. Bernie and Max worked for years to get the teams cashed up on dirty money, and to achieve a commercial structure enabling them to siphon as much as possible of it into their Swiss accounts (Max enjoyed a $300 mil personal bonus one year from Bernie).

 

Ferrari remain tobacco sponsored despite the EU ban. The other historic teams are still dipping into oil or alcohol, or both at McLaren. Until the commercial rights holder and the FIA deliver a revenue stream and regulation that allows the grid to go racing on a morally clean budget it's a bit of a nonsense topic.

[garagetinkerer]

This is silly and somewhat devoid of intelligence, which they presume to help foster by restricting advertisement of addictive substances. Well, like most families, some in my family smoked, some other drank, but i do neither. I must admit there was a bit of a curiosity (as with most) when i was a child about what it is like, but that can't be killed by banning advertisements. Everyone sees such things in their social interactions and that's where the education should take place. Education to inculcate responsibility, knowledge about personal choice. I never felt peer pressure... I was advised by colleagues and friends that i should give into an occasional drink, but i didn't. I guess it boils down to who you are.

 

Regulation is good. Printing "smoking/ drinking can cause cancer" is more than necessary to send the right message. I know people who know what mouth cancer ends like but still smoke. I know people who get into trouble because of their drinking, but still do. Regulation can't control stupid. It is time that governments realise as much, and that the governments start doing something for the people they are supposedly representing.

[garagetinkerer]

I support individual freedoms such as tobacco, alcohol and even marijuana consumption. However a modern society should ban advertising as it leads directly to an increase in uptake, and additional drain on healthcare systems etc.

 

-smoked when a stupid impressionable youth

-drinks too much (including a johnnie walker or vodka red bull at the f1)

 

 

 

Realistically F1 has a long way to go. Bernie and Max worked for years to get the teams cashed up on dirty money, and to achieve a commercial structure enabling them to siphon as much as possible of it into their Swiss accounts (Max enjoyed a $300 mil personal bonus one year from Bernie).

 

Ferrari remain tobacco sponsored despite the EU ban. The other historic teams are still dipping into oil or alcohol, or both at McLaren. Until the commercial rights holder and the FIA deliver a revenue stream and regulation that allows the grid to go racing on a morally clean budget it's a bit of a nonsense topic.

I see this bandied about a lot here... and other forums too. In past i was guilty of it too. I now have more respect for Bernie and what he has helped F1 become, more than ever. In 1, Lord Hesketh reveals that team owners were offered 10% share for £100,000. Most laughed him off as everyone thought they could do more research and that it was more important. People made poor choices and i for one, learning this much as was admitted by a team-owner at the time, can't blame Bernie anymore for others making a poor choice.

[Eff One 2002]

People who wanna drink alcohol will drink alcohol, regardless if they see the brand on an F1 car, or anything else for that matter. People who are morons and have no regard whatsoever for the safety of others who wanna drink and then drive will also do so regardless of this. Banning alcohol sponsorship is an utterly futile notion but it will probably happen.

[Montie]

Somebody has to pay for the sport, banning alcohol sponsorships on F1 cars will not stop people from drunk driving, only education will.

[Lights]

The Kingfisher brand exists primarily for the beer, right?

Yep, you're right. It's an international beer brand, so that would have to go.

[Murl]

Not sure that there is a high degree of understanding about marketing in this thread.

I'm not an expert either...

 

That aside, the idea of associating intoxicating substances with driving at high speed is moronic and irresponsible.

There are grown-ups at the helm of many brands - you simply won't see them associated with motor racing or other high risk activities.

 

Then there are others who decide their image could do with this association.

And the authorities who have had a guts full of the needless bloodshed.

 

We can talk about individual responsibility.

What about the lack of responsibility shown by the alcohol companies that use motorsports to promote their brand?

 

They could easily find other marketing opportunities that are not controversial.

[Krchan]

Well, if they ban alcohol sponsorship, they'll have to ban the champagne on the podium also...replace it with orange juice?

[Option1]

If it is legal to sell you can advertise, if it is illegal to sell you can not.That is how simple I would make the rules. Want to stop drinking, ban drinking, want to stop smoking, ban smoking. The fact that some will still smoke and drink is outside the discussion, at least the sport allow and disallow what is legal / illegal.

 

Yeh, making marijuana and heroin illegal certainly means that use of those items has stopped.  Well, except apparently in your case because it appears that you're over-indulging.  Oh and to use your own "logic" the fact that that you completely negated your own argument with your 4th sentence is outside the discussion. 

 

Personally, I thought Tsarwash put it best with "While I would not support any kind of ban, I never thought that motorsport was a suitable place to advertise any kind of alcohol."

 

Neil

[MrPodium]

I can see both sides of this argument. Alcohol and cars don't mix, but who in their right mind is going to watch a grand prix and think "right, I'm gonna get a skinfull and take my car out and drive like a lunatic for a couple of hours"?

As other posters have mentioned if this ban comes into place, then certain teams are going to be severely finanically impacted.

[Tsarwash]

Advertising alcohol in general. But it's advertising. Whether it falls under those common sense rules or not. I mean you had Penthouse and Durex in the past in F1. These companies fit motorsport so perfectly. Motor racing is a fringe part of society. The alcohol, tobacco, glamorized sex sponsors are the fringe activities. 
 
Why had the energy drink market fit motorsport so well? They are fringe companies.

Alcohol is legal, therefore it ought to be legal to advertise it. But alcohol and driving just do not mix, so I don't see the point of associating one with the other, from a corporate sense. And also, the argument that alcohol advertising is all about getting people to switch brands, not to start, is exactly the arguement that tobacco companies use. Whether or not it is true, or they think it is true is a different matter entirely.

[DrProzac]

Sure, people will drive drunk because they've seen a whiskey advert on an F1 car, not because they're idiots.

 

Because rogue banks, energy drinks, gambling and petroleum are much more health-friendly.

[Ross Stonefeld]

That's not really the same as alcohol though, nor is there the issue of connecting it to 'dangerous driving'. Though I can see there being restrictions on gambling in the long run.

[Jezick67]

A the current band wagen appears to be sugar and a ban must be imminent..... I'm relieved for Ted & Crofty. Lives saved!!

[RosannaG]

I have no problem with tobacco or alcohol sponsorship. In fact, when they banned the tobacco brands, I thought it was a big act of hyprocisy. 

[Murl]

I have no problem with tobacco or alcohol sponsorship. In fact, when they banned the tobacco brands, I thought it was a big act of hyprocisy. 

 

Conversely, when I see tobacco being advertised I find it utterly hypocritical. What could they possibly say about such a product, yet they manage to say it with no shame whatsoever.  Utterly hypocritical.