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Monaco 2014 - did Rosberg park it?


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Poll: Monaco 2014 - did Rosberg park it? (913 member(s) have cast votes)

Did Rosberg park it deliberately?

  1. Yes (446 votes [48.96%])

    Percentage of vote: 48.96%

  2. No (465 votes [51.04%])

    Percentage of vote: 51.04%

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#2551 Melchiot

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 10:29

If he did it on purpouse, which i doubt, he certainly did a better job then MSC in 2006.

 

He was clear off the track and the yellow flags had no bussiness being flown.



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#2552 Obi Offiah

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 00:20

I thought the following from Peter Winsor on The Racers Edge was interesting, from 10:00 to 10:40 :-



#2553 f1RacingForever

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 00:52

It's easy to say " so sand so told me..." without naming names and thus incriminating yourself. Journalists have a reputation of being betrayers who will say and do anything for a story which weakens their credibility considerably.



#2554 ATM

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 04:35

Anyway, I voted for "deliberate". That race line was really too strange and it's not like he's a rookie. 

But if there's one way to do it without getting punished, that's it. In a very strange way, I find some strange admiration to this plan. Almost like a perfect crime. Prove it, if you want to. 



#2555 bourbon

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 04:40

Anyway, I voted for "deliberate". That race line was really too strange and it's not like he's a rookie. 

But if there's one way to do it without getting punished, that's it. In a very strange way, I find some strange admiration to this plan. Almost like a perfect crime. Prove it, if you want to. 

 

Yeah but you are the judge, jury and executioner, lol.  So you are admiring the workings of your imagination which is...I'm not sure what that is...



#2556 ATM

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 04:46

Except for Rosberg, none of us knows for  sure what this thing is. So, I'm just playing the field, like everybody else. 


Edited by ATM, 11 June 2014 - 04:47.


#2557 Jon83

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:29

I noticed Toto used the word 'underhand' talking to Damon in the qualy buildup:  '...you need to extract the maximum advantage out of the car and out of the system, you try to be more intelligent, and as long as it's not becoming underhand it's absolutely acceptable'.  

 

Somehow I don't think he'd be using that word referring to engine modes, which are completely visible of course.

 

So I feel pretty sure Nico is busted within the team on Mirabeau.  Though it looks like the only effect is to make it the last time that trick can be pulled.

 

I feel pretty sure you're clutching at straws.
 



#2558 eronrules

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:34

WOW ...  :eek:

 

this thread is tougher than a cockroach after nuclear fallout. still going strong. 



#2559 sennafan24

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 22:28

Thought I would post this in the proper thread now that new allegations have come about. (and a mod said to use this thread for discussion, and for once I am being a good boy  :smoking: )

 

Benson, Windsor and now a naughty post from Autosport's own Maverick which might have been in jest (but maybe not). Hmmmm. I have always defended Nico on that one.


Edited by sennafan24, 07 September 2014 - 22:33.


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#2560 Ricardo F1

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 22:32

Yes he parked it.  It's been so incredibly clear since the minute it happened with his unnecessary sawing at the wheel, the locking of the wrong front tyre and the reversing in the exit road. 



#2561 bauss

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 22:34

Thought I would post this in the proper thread now that new allegations have come about. (and a mod said to use this thread for discussion, and for once I am being a good boy  :smoking: )

 

Benson, Windsor and now a naughty post from Autosport's own Maverick which might have been in jest (but maybe not). Hmmmm. I have always defended Nico on that one.

can u link to the Windsor and Maverick quotes?



#2562 payinkind

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 22:38

Look at the last page of the current LH vs. NR thread.



#2563 Seanspeed

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 22:40

Nico didn't do it on purpose.

#2564 Seanspeed

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 22:40

I've got a quote from Autosport's very own Seanspeed that Nico did not park it.

#2565 sennafan24

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 22:42

can u link to the Windsor and Maverick quotes?

For you? Yes

 

Nah. Nico blatantly did it. The whole paddock knows it. Got off on a character reference....... lucky DW is very good mates with Keke. *

 

*I'm potentially just making that up. Jackanory and all that.

 

Windsor - https://www.youtube....NjdLYu1kM_OEJVw

 

Benson - 

And within F1 - as more information creeps out with the passing of time from conversations between team members - more and more people are coming to the conclusion that his 'mistake' in qualifying in Monaco, when Rosberg went down the escape road and cost Hamilton a chance to beat him to pole, was anything but.

 


Edited by sennafan24, 07 September 2014 - 22:43.


#2566 payinkind

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 22:42

Nico didn't do it on purpose.

 

You can't really prove it though - actually, no one can prove he did it on purpose either. Only Nico, his entourage and close team members will know. However, the fact that whispers have been going around is an indication that there is much more than appeared to be (at least from the stewards' point of view). 



#2567 P123

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 22:43

Yes. No. Maybe. No idea. Nothing will ever prove beyond all doubt either way.

#2568 bauss

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 22:43

For you? Yes

 

 

Windsor - https://www.youtube....NjdLYu1kM_OEJVw

 

Benson - 

 

oh lol... aight...thanks

 

nothing will indeed prove beyond doubt that Nico did... except if years down the line he confesses he did which is unlikely.

 

but the congruent thing looking at everything Nico has done this year, looking at the incident itself and the one of a kind driver reaction to a lockup tells me he did. It's something I can't shake, tried to give him benefit of doubt but its hard to within the context of his other behavior and comments this season.


Edited by bauss, 07 September 2014 - 22:56.


#2569 sennafan24

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 22:45

Nico didn't do it on purpose.

See, I was under that impression

 

But it appears something has leaked out. In a matter of weeks Benson and Windsor have made comments about people within Mercedes thinking Nico did it on purpose. 



#2570 Cyanide

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 22:57

See, I was under that impression

 

But it appears something has leaked out. In a matter of weeks Benson and Windsor have made comments about people within Mercedes thinking Nico did it on purpose. 

 

If people at Mercedes thought Nico did it on purpose they wouldn't have issued team orders in Hungary against Lewis. They'd be all over his back to kick him out. Unless of course by "people within Mercedes" they mean the janitor or the plumber at their base in Brackley. 

 

I find it funny that Rosberg's lock-up in Monza is considered a mistake while his lock-up in Monaco an intent. Of course, conspiracies are the strongest when Nico's moves affect Hamilton in a negative way.  

 

BBC were quick to say Rosberg cracked under pressure in Monza, so why is it so impossible to think he did just that in Monaco as well? Baffled by that fallacy. 


Edited by Cyanide, 07 September 2014 - 23:00.


#2571 Obi Offiah

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 23:04

I've got a quote from Autosport's very own Seanspeed that Nico did not park it.

Sean who?



#2572 sennafan24

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 23:06

If people at Mercedes thought Nico did it on purpose they wouldn't have issued team orders in Hungary against Lewis. They'd be all over his back to kick him out. Unless of course by "people within Mercedes" they mean the janitor or the plumber at their base in Brackley. 

If you read Benson's comments, it appears some information has only come out lately .Hence "more information creeps out"

 

I would still wager it was a mistake, but it is interesting that Benson and Windsor have said the same thing in a small space of time.



#2573 P123

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 23:08

If people at Mercedes thought Nico did it on purpose they wouldn't have issued team orders in Hungary against Lewis. They'd be all over his back to kick him out. Unless of course by "people within Mercedes" they mean the janitor or the plumber at their base in Brackley. 
 
I find it funny that Rosberg's lock-up in Monza is considered a mistake while his lock-up in Monaco an intent. Of course, conspiracies are the strongest when Nico's moves affect Hamilton in a negative way.  
 
BBC were quick to say Rosberg cracked under pressure in Monza, so why is it so impossible to think he did just that in Monaco as well? Baffled by that fallacy.


Funnily enough, you yourself in other topics are strongly leaning towards Nico's Italian GP chicane missing being intentional/ ordered. So you like a good conspiracy too, but only when Nico's errors don't benefit Nico. Then they aren't errors. Naturally somebody is more likely to intentionally do something to the benefit of themselves, rather than to their detriment.

But Nico has been overshooting corners all season. This time he didn't get away without a personal cost.

#2574 bub

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 23:12

If people at Mercedes thought Nico did it on purpose they wouldn't have issued team orders in Hungary against Lewis. They'd be all over his back to kick him out. Unless of course by "people within Mercedes" they mean the janitor or the plumber at their base in Brackley. 

 

Like you say, it depends on who (whom?), if anyone within Mercedes thinks he did it on purpose.

 

 

I find it funny that Rosberg's lock-up in Monza is considered a mistake while his lock-up in Monaco an intent. Of course, conspiracies are the strongest when Nico's moves affect Hamilton in a negative way. 

 

Actually they have both been called mistakes by some and intentional by some.

 

 

BBC were quick to say Rosberg cracked under pressure in Monza, so why is it so impossible to think he did just that in Monaco as well? Baffled by that fallacy. 

 

1. It seems more likely that a driver would stage a fake lockup to get himself pole position at Monaco than to give away a victory.

2. Lewis' comments after Monaco also fueled the theories.

3. Did the BBC ever say it's impossible that Monaco was Rosberg cracking under pressure?

 

 

My opinion hasn't changed. I have no idea, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a mistake or intentional therefore I give Rosberg the benefit of the doubt.


Edited by bub, 07 September 2014 - 23:14.


#2575 Timorous

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 23:16

If you read the comments in Mark Hughes Monaco report at motorsport magazine he says the stewards did not look at the tyre load data and if they had it would have shown that he coukd have made the corner. He also says that someone in the upper management thinks it was done on purpose.

Posting on phone so links are a pain.

#2576 Cyanide

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 23:25

Funnily enough, you yourself in other topics are strongly leaning towards Nico's Italian GP chicane missing being intentional/ ordered. So you like a good conspiracy too, but only when Nico's errors don't benefit Nico. 

 

I only considered it for a brief moment based on Wolff's reaction until I read he actually said the footage of his smile was a delayed tape that happened before Nico locking up. That is all. 

 

 

If you read the comments in Mark Hughes Monaco report at motorsport magazine he says the stewards did not look at the tyre load data and if they had it would have shown that he coukd have made the corner.

 

Mark Hughes has acces to tyre load data? Damn, what a journalist. He should feed us some telemetry over the Spa incident as well. 

 

So stewards didn't look into that data but he did. What a load of bull. 

 

 

He also says that someone in the upper management thinks it was done on purpose.

 

So we have another. Ha!

 

Someone in the upper management is pretty vague. And that includes the words "someone" and "upper management". Like I said, if Mercedes truly believed he did it on purpose they wouldn't have called for team orders to favor Nico in Hungary. 

 

 

If you read Benson's comments, it appears some information has only come out lately .Hence "more information creeps out"

 

What information could have leaked out 3 months after the incident? Someone revisited the data and had a light bulb flash on the top of their head? More like somebody thought it was intentional due to the circumstances in Spa. 

 

IF someone thought it was deliberate (which is a very big if), they would have thought that immediately after the incident. Not 3 months after. So I go back to my original point: if they knew he did it on purpose, they wouldn't have issued the orders in Hungary.


Edited by Cyanide, 07 September 2014 - 23:26.


#2577 Cyanide

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 23:29

Plus, Windsor said back in June that some Mercedes people knew it was deliberate. So again, that's before Hungary.

 

Does. not. make. sense. 



#2578 sennafan24

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 23:30

 

What information could have leaked out 3 months after the incident? 

"Conversation between team members"

 

That could mean anything. Maybe someone Nico confided in spilled the beans to the wrong person, we cannot be sure. It would appear mumblings came out after Hungary if we go by Benson, to answer your query.

 

I am theorizing really, I am no real fixed opinion on all this.


Edited by sennafan24, 07 September 2014 - 23:32.


#2579 Cyanide

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 23:32

"Conversation between team members"

 

That could mean anything. Maybe someone Nico confided in spilled the beans to the wrong person. It would appear this mumblings came out after Hungary, to answer your query.

 

Windsor uncovered that story in Montreal, which was before Hungary. What Benson posted today was just a regurgitated version. 

 

So the apparent "Mercedes knows" story was before Hungary, not after. 



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#2580 ultrapro

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 23:36

I'd largely forgotten about this incident although I had mixed feelings at the time, the repeated references to it recently have made me wonder whether something was up. Then I found it particularly interesting when Hamilton was interviewed about the Spa accident and how it compared to past incidents, and he said "nothing could be worse than Monaco". After all that time that's passed the fact that he made such an explicit reference made me really believe that he knows for a fact something happened.



#2581 payinkind

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 23:38

Mark Hughes has acces to tyre load data? Damn, what a journalist. He should feed us some telemetry over the Spa incident as well. 

 

So stewards didn't look into that data but he did. What a load of bull. 

 

 

 

I find it so funny that an armchair (at best) is so quick to dismiss an educated opinion by someone in the know.



#2582 Longtimefan

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 23:40

If you read Benson's comments, it appears some information has only come out lately .Hence "more information creeps out"

 

 

Benson is one of the biggest blinkered Lewis fanboys out there and a hack too, I wouldn't believe him if it told me the sky was blue.

(I don't mean to be offensive to Lewis ..or the majority of his fans)



#2583 Cyanide

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 23:43

I find it so funny that an armchair (at best) is so quick to dismiss an educated opinion by someone in the know.

 

Please.

 

Mark Hughes may be out there in the field but what he suggested is that he saw tyre load data from a Mercedes car, something other teams don't have access to, let alone journalists. It's confidential data. He's a reporter not an engineer or a technical guru for Christ's sake.  


Edited by Cyanide, 07 September 2014 - 23:44.


#2584 payinkind

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 00:02

Please.

 

Mark Hughes may be out there in the field but what he suggested is that he saw tyre load data from a Mercedes car, something other teams don't have access to, let alone journalists. It's confidential data. He's a reporter not an engineer or a technical guru for Christ's sake.  

 

He knows people within Mercedes. His detailed race reports imply as such. He doesn't need to see the data; he merely needs to hear the interpretation of that data from people within Mercedes.



#2585 TomNokoe

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 00:12

Benson is one of the biggest blinkered Lewis fanboys out there and a hack too, I wouldn't believe him if it told me the sky was blue.
(I don't mean to be offensive to Lewis ..or the majority of his fans)


But the sky is blue!

#2586 maverick69

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 00:18

Ah....... MPH. Is thou out there?

#2587 Timorous

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 06:26

Please.
 
Mark Hughes may be out there in the field but what he suggested is that he saw tyre load data from a Mercedes car, something other teams don't have access to, let alone journalists. It's confidential data. He's a reporter not an engineer or a technical guru for Christ's sake.

You could actually read what he says. When I am on the computer I will provide links.

 

EDIT:

 

Quotes by Mark Hughes from the comments section of http://www.motorspor...naco-gp-report/

 

 

 

No. Just said there was insufficient evidence. They couldn’t prove it. He braked late and hard, but not outrageously so. I was told they looked at the standard brake, throttle and steering traces, but not the tyre load data. Had they done, I’m pretty sure they’d have found an inconsistency between what the tyres could take (as seen on previous run) and how much steering input was made. As DC said, he appeared to be sawing at the wheel even when the car was clearly planted to the road. That is very much what it looked like from front-on – with the car simply following his steering inputs. It’s was as if he’d expected that sawing to create a twitch and when it didn’t and he found himself arriving at the turn-in point with the car slowed and stable, he then locked up, ensuring he couldn’t make the turn. It’s the locking up of the wheels at a point where the car is easily slow enough to make the turn that gives it away. But hey, it’s a title fight. I’m not condemning him.

 

 

 

As for including Lauda and Wolff as those insisting it wasn’t deliberate. Come on – what else are they going to say publically? They are Mercedes. And at least one of those admitted off record that he suspected it was deliberate.

 

 


Edited by Timorous, 08 September 2014 - 06:54.


#2588 maverick69

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 07:42

You could actually read what he says. When I am on the computer I will provide links.

 

EDIT:

 

Quotes by Mark Hughes from the comments section of http://www.motorspor...naco-gp-report/

 ;)



#2589 Cyanide

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 07:53

This is great and all but it doesn't change anything. 

 

"I heard that somebody at Mercedes knew it was deliberate". That's pretty much what Hughes, Benson and Windsor are saying. It still doesn't explain then why they supported Nico with team orders in Hungary if they knew the Monaco incident was intentional back in May. 



#2590 Nonesuch

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 08:05

It still doesn't explain then why they supported Nico with team orders in Hungary if they knew the Monaco incident was intentional back in May. 

 

Mercedes as a team are in the business of winning races, to do so there is no point in being vindictive about something that happened months before.

 

Because of how the race played out, there was a (small) chance that Rosberg could win the race on his alternative strategy. In the end, after his late stop, he was only six seconds behind winner Ricciardo, and had he been able to pass Hamilton, or been let through, before that final stop, that might have led to a better final result for Mercedes than 3rd and 4th, behind even a Ferrari. It would've probably meant that Rosberg would end up in front of Hamilton, which is likely why this minor squabble was given such undue attention.


Edited by Nonesuch, 08 September 2014 - 08:06.


#2591 Cyanide

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 08:25

Mercedes as a team are in the business of winning races, to do so there is no point in being vindictive about something that happened months before.

 

There is no point in being vindictive about doing what Nico did (if it was intentional)?

 

Mercedes loves to brag about equality. If they were really interested in fairness they wouldn't have supported Nico in Hungary, win or no win (again, if they knew the Monaco lock-up was intentional). Does it make much sense to tell the victim (Lewis) of the Monaco case to make way for the guy who ruined his qualifying on purpose? Not to mention that you jeopardize Lewis with that by allowing Nico a free pass and additional extra points in the championship. 

 

There's a strong fallacy in all of this. 



#2592 Cyanide

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 08:34

Oh yeah, nevermind the contract extension that happened not even three weeks later. "Hey, Nico, we know what you did in Monaco was on purpose. Bravo, here's a multi-year contract."

 

:stoned:



#2593 Lotus53B

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 08:39

Hanlon's Razor:-

 

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.



#2594 tigerbalm

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 09:12

Oh yeah, nevermind the contract extension that happened not even three weeks later. "Hey, Nico, we know what you did in Monaco was on purpose. Bravo, here's a multi-year contract."

:stoned:


Actually, the news first broke during the Monaco grand prix weekend that Rosberg had signed a new contract. Mercedes officially confirmed it in July.

BBC May 23 article:http://www.bbc.com/s...rmula1/27523534
Official confirmation article:http://www.bbc.com/s...rmula1/28325147

#2595 bonjon1979a

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 09:26

There is no point in being vindictive about doing what Nico did (if it was intentional)?

 

Mercedes loves to brag about equality. If they were really interested in fairness they wouldn't have supported Nico in Hungary, win or no win (again, if they knew the Monaco lock-up was intentional). Does it make much sense to tell the victim (Lewis) of the Monaco case to make way for the guy who ruined his qualifying on purpose? Not to mention that you jeopardize Lewis with that by allowing Nico a free pass and additional extra points in the championship. 

 

There's a strong fallacy in all of this. 

Merc have to say that Nico didn't do it deliberately, no matter what they thought internally as it would lead to instant disqualification. No way they would allow anyone within the team to even hint that it was deliberate which is probably why they were so pissed off at Lewis for suggesting such a thing.

 

With regards to Hungary. I genuinely don't think that the team thought that Nico was racing Lewis, he had another pitstop to go and they thought that Lewis would be long gone. It was only because Lewis' engine dropped power that he wasn't able to overtake fernando and disappear into the distance. Probably giving him a good five second cushion above Nico who maybe would've just pipped ALonso at the end.



#2596 Brackets

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 10:01

Look at the last page of the current LH vs. NR thread.

Asking to do that on a race weekend is only correct for about 3 seconds. Outside of race weekends, that number is up to 8 seconds (If there are no ad-hoc press conferences or made up articles in the British press)


You know, the only thing ROS had going for him in Monaco, was the fact that, well, it’s Meeko we were talking about so it couldn’t possibly be true, and the fact that we hadn’t really studied how he handles lockups. Since that illustrious qualifying, we’ve had quite a number of missed braking points from him (including two in the very same corner), but we’ve yet to see the weaving again.

It no longer adds up.

And then the bombshell - largely ignored of course – that, according to Windsor/Benson/HowCouldIForget, even Lauda also had his doubts… (well, technically, it was “Lauda or Toto had his doubts”, but I can’t see it having come from Toto, so that leaves Lauda).

#2597 Tsarwash

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 10:06

I've got a quote from Autosport's very own Seanspeed that Nico did not park it.

Sauce please.  :rotfl:



#2598 Seanspeed

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 10:09

However, the fact that whispers have been going around is an indication that there is much more than appeared to be (at least from the stewards' point of view).

No its not. The existence of a rumor has no bearing on the validity of it. Kinda like you cant define a word by using the word in the definition.  ;)
 

Sean who?

He's kind of a big deal.

Edited by Seanspeed, 08 September 2014 - 10:10.


#2599 bonjon1979a

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 10:12

No its not. The existence of a rumor has no bearing on the validity of it. Kinda like you cant define a word by using the word in the definition.  ;)
 
He's kind of a big deal.

This is how I will think of you henceforth.

 

 

This is how I used to think of you.

 


Edited by bonjon1979a, 08 September 2014 - 10:13.


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#2600 Tsarwash

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 10:26

 

As for including Lauda and Wolff as those insisting it wasn’t deliberate. Come on – what else are they going to say publically? They are Mercedes. And at least one of those admitted off record that he suspected it was deliberate.

 

As a professional journalist, if somebody says something to you off the record, I thought the idea was to not report it, if you ever wanted these people to speak to you again ? Maybe somebody can help clarify this to me. 

 

edit, strange formatting.


Edited by Tsarwash, 08 September 2014 - 10:27.