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Fernando Alonso vs Kimi Räikkönen 2014 Part III


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#101 mardmarium

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 17:29

@Oldie, No, I hadn´t read, anyway, I didn´t take it as some personal insult, when I talk about insults, I talk about insults. Come on, I am not angry because of this, it´s just that I have other things to do and I cannot spend my time here explaining everything I am talking about, so I summarize it with "I know what I am talking about". I could search posts that I´ve read but I would need time and frankly, I said what I wanted to, better leave things this way.

 

I have nothing against you or your opinion. I was just talking about my opinion and where this comes from (not explicitly but implicitly)



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#102 DavidHeath461

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 18:09

Is Kimi even in the top 10 of the WDC standings?

#103 Raikkonen94

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 18:13

Is Kimi even in the top 10 of the WDC standings?

 

You can check the standings yourself, right?



#104 Skinnyguy

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 18:15

Stop repeating nonsense: Raikkonen Q3 monaco lap was NOT compromised by yellows. Alonso nailed the lap, Kimi did not.

#105 photon

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 18:31

Let's say Raikkonen was terrible in last qualifying.  So he started further back in the grid, but beat him in the race anyway.  Surely no one here thinks Alonso was better than Raikkonen in Monaco.  He got taken out by a Russian missile while behind safety car and WELL ahead of Alonso.  I find it very disappointing that his detractors would attempt to twist the situation into an anti-Kimi party.

 

Sorry to rain on some of you people's parade, but the fact remains that Raikkonen was faster than Alonso two weekends in a row.



#106 Lone

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 18:34

Is Kimi even in the top 10 of the WDC standings?


Has anyone ever won the WDC after beeing outside of the top ten after a third of the season? I believe Kimi's gunning for "legendary" since he probably can't end his F1 career with more WDC's than the ones with ridicuosly superior cars than he ever had, 2013, 2012, 2009, 2006 and 2005 comes to mind. Before that my memory fails me a little bit, old age, you know!

Edited by Lone, 27 May 2014 - 18:37.


#107 garoidb

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 18:50

Let's say Raikkonen was terrible in last qualifying.  So he started further back in the grid, but beat him in the race anyway.  Surely no one here thinks Alonso was better than Raikkonen in Monaco.  He got taken out by a Russian missile while behind safety car and WELL ahead of Alonso.  I find it very disappointing that his detractors would attempt to twist the situation into an anti-Kimi party.

 

Sorry to rain on some of you people's parade, but the fact remains that Raikkonen was faster than Alonso two weekends in a row.

 

Alonso was faster in all three practice sessions and all three qualifying rounds. He was passed at the start, which can happen. He could well have ended up finishing behind Kimi, since Monaco affords few opportunities to overtake. It wouldn't have mattered that much. However, it also wouldn't have meant that Raikkonen was better than him there.



#108 BorkoF2012

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 19:12

The difference is that Alonso was able to complete his "RIP" lap, whereas Raikkonen's got destroyed by yellow flag.

Okay, you know that the truth is Raikkonen's lap was clean and had nothing to do with that yellow flag. So what are trying to accomplish by saying something that you know it's not true?



#109 photon

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 19:51

Okay, you know that the truth is Raikkonen's lap was clean and had nothing to do with that yellow flag. So what are trying to accomplish by saying something that you know it's not true?

 

I don't sit on this forum 24/7, so sorry if I missed some kind of authoritative decision that Raikkonen was not one of the victims of the yellow flag.  I never said Raikkonen was faster in Monaco qualifying.  I said he was faster than Alonso two weekends in a row.  The fact that Raikkonen was able to come back from a bad qualifying and be so far ahead of Alonso in the race only highlights how much faster he was in the race.  He was WAY ahead despite starting from behind.



#110 apexpredator

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 20:05

Photon it seems you're not very good at reading races I'm afraid. 

 

Both Alonso and Ricciardo dropped well back in the first stint to save tyres and as the first stop window was approaching they were both catching Kimi by the boat load. The comparable lap times for Kimi and Alonso has been posted and it shows Alonso much faster near the end of that stint. 

 

This is what Alonso has opted to do the past few years in Monaco in order to make the jump through the pitstop phase. Raikkonen would have had to pit a lot sooner since his tyres were shot, whilst Alonso would have put the hammer down. Undercut wouldn't have worked here because new tyres come out too cold so the outlaps aren't particularly great. 

 

The safety car meant that everybody pitted and Alonso wasn't able to make use of his strategy. Whether Alonso would have come out ahead or not is pure speculation, but the point is the gap in the first 20 laps was down to strategy it wasn't representative of Alonso's pace. 

 

Kimi was ahead of Alonso in the grand prix. He was not faster than him this 'weekend'. FYI a grand prix weekend is made of Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Alonso has clearly been faster, if you can't see that then you don't really understand this sport. 


Edited by apexpredator, 27 May 2014 - 20:07.


#111 Hanzo

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 20:17

He should learn not to let other drivers crash in to him and he should improve the reliability of his car, and he should do a workshop with all the Alonso fans on this board, showing have loveable he can be.

That would improve his reputation, atleast among the Alonso fans on this board.

Other than that, he should just stick to his plan and improve as the season goes on, relatively to Alonso that is.

And, stay cool, something even Mattiaci has seemed to notice. The results will come, eventually, I hope!

Edit: I forgot the smiley :).

 

 

 

 What I said was that he needs to score points. Regardless of what Alonso does.  

I am not saying he is not trying to do it now, but I doubt he is having the right approach. He can not go and say: "I don't care if I get points for 8th or not, it does not matter to me". Even if he thinks that, I am not sure it is a great thing to say. If you think that is the kind of comment that goes well inside the team, I will not try to convince you otherwise. Maybe the team want that. To go out there and not caring about a couple of points more and less. Who knows?

 

 

 

You mention reliability and rookies crashing into him. Ok. You are 100 per cent right. The thing you don't mention is the move on Magnussen that meant 0 points at the end of the race. It is ok, any driver could do that mistake, but there are no reason to hide the fact that it cost points. It should not matter if you lost a podium chance or if Alonso was ahead, it was a mistake, even if fans think it did not matter since the podium chance was gone. 

 

 

I think both drivers are very close during races. Difference in points is bigger than difference in performance. A couple of good races from Kimi and a bad day from Alonso and maybe one or two DNF... and they will be very close in points, I have no doubts.

But to go now and talk about who is or who was faster... I don't know... Is it possible that many don't like the actual scoreboard between both drivers and are looking to incorporate another stat?  The "who was faster in my opinion" stat? 



#112 Watkins74

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 20:23

Kimi - "I never hit him until I reversed, because obviously he was behind me. But I didn't really care at that point – a few points for eighth place, or 10th place or 11th place, it makes no difference for me."

 

Maybe Chilton didn't care either?



#113 RubalSher

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 20:32

Kimi - "I never hit him until I reversed, because obviously he was behind me. But I didn't really care at that point – a few points for eighth place, or 10th place or 11th place, it makes no difference for me."

 

Maybe Chilton didn't care either?

 

Someone needs to remind Kimi that his best finish this year is 7th and implying that he hasnt cared for 1/3rd of the season isnt gonna win him any friends in his garage or outside of it.



#114 Lone

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 20:33

Alonso was faster in all three practice sessions and all three qualifying rounds. He was passed at the start, which can happen. He could well have ended up finishing behind Kimi, since Monaco affords few opportunities to overtake. It wouldn't have mattered that much. However, it also wouldn't have meant that Raikkonen was better than him there.


Maybe Alonso set his car up for qualifying? The possibility of doing that was something I heard when Kimi outqualified Alonso in Spain. Or is that only something that could happen when Kimi outqualifies Alonso but not the other way around?

#115 arnoldpredator

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 21:08

After the Spanish GP Alonso said someone had to cover from Vettel and that dirty job was for him, at that moment he thought that was a really bad strategy. And then he said he was surprised because he didn't expect neither catch nor overtake Kimi.

 

As you can see, at the exact moment of the pit stop, nobody at Ferrari was thinking "this is the driver number 1, let's destroy Kimi's race". They just thought someone had to stop Vettel, and that job was assigned to the driver at the worst position at that moment, ALonso.

 

Then the tyres for the 2 stoppers were destroyed and Alonso could overtake Kimi, but that is another story.

 

The point is, at the very precise moment when Ferrari decided to pit ALonso to cover Vettel they thought that was bad for the driver, and they choose ALonso to do that. So stop saying that Ferrari was against Kimi at Barcelona because it is not true.



#116 Lone

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 21:28

After the Spanish GP Alonso said someone had to cover from Vettel and that dirty job was for him, at that moment he thought that was a really bad strategy. And then he said he was surprised because he didn't expect neither catch nor overtake Kimi.
 
As you can see, at the exact moment of the pit stop, nobody at Ferrari was thinking "this is the driver number 1, let's destroy Kimi's race". They just thought someone had to stop Vettel, and that job was assigned to the driver at the worst position at that moment, ALonso.
 
Then the tyres for the 2 stoppers were destroyed and Alonso could overtake Kimi, but that is another story.
 
The point is, at the very precise moment when Ferrari decided to pit ALonso to cover Vettel they thought that was bad for the driver, and they choose ALonso to do that. So stop saying that Ferrari was against Kimi at Barcelona because it is not true.


Alonso, the saviour of the country!

#117 apexpredator

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 21:29

Maybe Alonso set his car up for qualifying? The possibility of doing that was something I heard when Kimi outqualified Alonso in Spain. Or is that only something that could happen when Kimi outqualifies Alonso but not the other way around?

 

Yeah, maybe. Or maybe we can all behave like rational individuals by looking at Alonso's lap times and tyre degradation in the race. 

 

I think people are missing the fact that sometimes in racing you have to go slower at the start to be faster at the end. 



#118 photon

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 21:31

Either Raikkonen has had incredibly bad luck in the technical department or there are huge discrepancy between the competence of the staff assigned to Raikkonen and Alonso, Raikkonen has objectively had much greater misfortune with race incidents caused by people hitting him and destroying his position in race, and Raikkonen has clearly received the shorter end of the stick in terms of outcomes of race strategy decisions.

 

Note that I am not saying that Ferrari have purposely caused the portion of these things that were technically under their authority.  I'm merely acknowledging that they are realities, rather than pretending that both drivers have been on equal terms.   Very clear and dramatic ones.


Edited by photon, 27 May 2014 - 21:34.


#119 Lone

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 21:34

Yeah, maybe. Or maybe we can all behave like rational individuals by looking at Alonso's lap times and tyre degradation in the race. 
 
I think people are missing the fact that sometimes in racing you have to go slower at the start to be faster at the end.


Rational individuals? I think that ship sailed the minute we learned that Kim signed for Ferrari, alongside Alonso.

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#120 4MEN

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 21:57

Let's say Raikkonen was terrible in last qualifying.  So he started further back in the grid, but beat him in the race anyway.  Surely no one here thinks Alonso was better than Raikkonen in Monaco.  He got taken out by a Russian missile while behind safety car and WELL ahead of Alonso.  I find it very disappointing that his detractors would attempt to twist the situation into an anti-Kimi party.

 

Sorry to rain on some of you people's parade, but the fact remains that Raikkonen was faster than Alonso two weekends in a row.

You need to re-watch the race, twice.



#121 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 22:12

The difference is that Alonso was able to complete his "RIP" lap, whereas Raikkonen's got destroyed by yellow flag.

This is not true. RAI set his first time in Q3 on used tyres then went back into the pits and got the last set of new super soft.

12:58 Magnussen's next run gets him up to sixth, but Raikkonen then pinches that spot.


12:59 Rosberg locks up and goes down the escape road at Mirabeau!



Kimi set his best lap before Rosbergs off, the yellow didn't affect his Quali.

Quali

Edited by CrucialXtreme, 27 May 2014 - 22:13.


#122 Watkins74

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 22:14

Always nice to see drivers spend some time with the fans. Kimi  :up:

 

 

 

Rats, I can't seem to find the youtube link. edit: I guess I did after all.  :drunk:


Edited by Watkins74, 27 May 2014 - 22:15.


#123 PoleMan

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 22:21

I guess one way to show which driver has been faster through 6 races is to check which of the two, Kimi or Fernando, had the faster lap in each race (A better way is to average all the laps, but I'm not investing the time for that).

 

And the survey says...

 

In Australia: Kimi had the 10 Fastest Race Lap at  1:33.691.                  Alonso had the 3rd fastest, with a lap of 1:32.616.

 

Malaysia:     Kimi had the 7th Fastest Race Lap at  1:45.129                 Fernando was once again 3rd fastest, overall, with a lap of 1:44.165.

 

Bahrain:        Kimi was 8th fastest, overall with an FL of 1:39.438.                Alonso had the 12th Fastest Race Lap at 1:39.732

 

China:           Kimi was 8th fastest again, with a best lap time of 1:42.300.    Alonso had the 4th quickest lap of the day with a 1:42.081.

 

Spain:          Kimi had the 11th Fastest Race Lap at 1:30.580.                Fernando was 4th quickest on the day, again,  with a 1:29.898.

 

Monaco:        Kimi had the Fastest Race Lap with a 1:18.479.                      Alonso finished with a 5th fastest lap with a 1:19.727.

 

The Fastest Race Laps are bolded for the quicker driver. Simple math shows Alonso is ahead 4-2, so far, for anyone trying to use the fastest Ferrari driver of 2014 stat as a measure. I concede that "average lap time" would be better (Minusing out any collision/tech failure laps), but since Alonso has finished ahead in the first 6 races, I'm guessing he'd likely come out ahead in that stat as well. 



#124 arnoldpredator

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 22:21

Alonso, the saviour of the country!

 

Your arguments are astonishing, I have no answer for that.



#125 arnoldpredator

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 22:25

I guess one way to show which driver has been faster through 6 races is to check which of the two, Kimi or Fernando, had the faster lap in each race (A better way is to average all the laps, but I'm not investing the time for that).

 

And the survey says...

 

In Australia: Kimi had the 10 Fastest Race Lap at  1:33.691.                  Alonso had the 3rd fastest, with a lap of 1:32.616.

 

Malaysia:     Kimi had the 7th Fastest Race Lap at  1:45.129                 Fernando was once again 3rd fastest, overall, with a lap of 1:44.165.

 

Bahrain:        Kimi was 8th fastest, overall with an FL of 1:39.438.                Alonso had the 12th Fastest Race Lap at 1:39.732

 

China:           Kimi was 8th fastest again, with a best lap time of 1:42.300.    Alonso had the 4th quickest lap of the day with a 1:42.081.

 

Spain:          Kimi had the 11th Fastest Race Lap at 1:30.580.                Fernando was 4th quickest on the day, again,  with a 1:29.898.

 

Monaco:        Kimi had the Fastest Race Lap with a 1:18.479.                      Alonso finished with a 5th fastest lap with a 1:19.727.

 

The Fastest Race Laps are bolded for the quicker driver. Simple math shows Alonso is ahead 4-2, so far, for anyone trying to use the fastest Ferrari driver of 2014 stat as a measure. I concede that "average lap time" would be better (Minusing out any collision/tech failure laps), but since Alonso has finished ahead in the first 6 races, I'm guessing he'd likely come out ahead in that stat as well. 

 

Well, in qualifying the have the same fuel, maybe they have different setups for the race, that is the only factor which can distort the statistic.

 

The fastest lap depends on the strategy and a lot of factors and it is more difficult to compare that.



#126 photon

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 22:30

Guys, I understand that it was upsetting for some people to see that I thought Raikkonen might have qualified better had there not been a yellow flag.  I see that there seems to be a new consensus that he was not one of the drivers affected by the flag.  My apologies for being ill-informed.  I stand by my objection to see people attempting to suggest that Alonso was faster in the race when Raikkonen started behind and was only getting further and further ahead of Alonso when he was struck by a Russian missile.



#127 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 22:32

I know this is the Alonso vs Kimi thread but some are too worried about making one driver look better than the other. The nit picking is tiresome. They're both great drivers driving a crap car. Let's just hope the team can make the car quicker so our favorite drivers aren't racing for 5th.

#128 PoleMan

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 22:35

Guys, I understand that it was upsetting for some people to see that I thought Raikkonen might have qualified better had there not been a yellow flag.  I see that there seems to be a new consensus that he was not one of the drivers affected by the flag.  My apologies for being ill-informed.  I stand by my objection to see people attempting to suggest that Alonso was faster in the race when Raikkonen started behind and was only getting further and further ahead of Alonso when he was struck by a Russian missile.

The bolded isn't true either...in fact the opposite, as many who actually watched the race and posted the diminishing gap Kimi had over Ric and Alonso, have tried to show you. 

 

Kimi WILL be faster at the checkered flag soon, I believe. Maybe even in Montreal.


Edited by PoleMan, 27 May 2014 - 22:36.


#129 Seanspeed

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 23:04

Maybe Alonso set his car up for qualifying? The possibility of doing that was something I heard when Kimi outqualified Alonso in Spain. Or is that only something that could happen when Kimi outqualifies Alonso but not the other way around?

There's not really much of a distinction at Monaco. There isn't a driver/team on the grid who forsakes qualifying pace for race pace at this track. Would be idiotic.

This is a really sad argument.

#130 photon

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 23:22

The bolded isn't true either...in fact the opposite, as many who actually watched the race and posted the diminishing gap Kimi had over Ric and Alonso, have tried to show you. 

 

Kimi WILL be faster at the checkered flag soon, I believe. Maybe even in Montreal.

 

What does Ric have to do with anything?  Kimi started behind Alonso, passed him, then built a huge gap.  Alonso was fortunate Vettel's transmission broke yet still way too far behind for people to have entertained notions of his catching up.  Enough with the accusing people of not watching races.  You can be certain I watched it very carefully.



#131 Mally11

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 23:23

It doesn't matter if one of the drivers is +0.200 or +2.000 quicker through each practice or qualifying. I'm a fan of the perception that Sunday is the day where it all comes down to. Race day is where the points and comparisons are handed out unless things have changed?

 

Barring any technical or luck issues that have only hampered one driver so far, I'm really looking forward to ALO and RAI being as closely matched as possible (seems to be the case come race day) to try and knock Red Bull off second in the WCC come the end of the season.

 

If this happens it doesn't matter which driver scored more points seeing as this is the only realistic target to be heading for this season.

 

Raikkonen does care (regards to RubalSher's silly comment earlier in the thread above) - he cares about winning races, WDC's and nothing more. In Monaco I'm sure the team would have reacted the same way if he got either 7th or 8th. That reaction being that Ferrari is nowhere near where they want to be.



#132 PoleMan

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 23:49

What does Ric have to do with anything?  Kimi started behind Alonso, passed him, then built a huge gap.  Alonso was fortunate Vettel's transmission broke yet still way too far behind for people to have entertained notions of his catching up.  Enough with the accusing people of not watching races.  You can be certain I watched it very carefully.

You are making yourself look very silly, and it seems fruitless to try and communicate with you, but I'll make one final attempt.Take a look at post #50 on the first page of this thread to see if the gap was growing or rapidly closing before the first stop between the 2 drivers. Ricciardo was also rapidly closing and had gone from several seconds behind Kimi to.6. Alonso was a couple seconds behind Daniel, as they both seemed to be following a similar tyre strategy.



#133 apexpredator

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 01:40

What does Ric have to do with anything?  Kimi started behind Alonso, passed him, then built a huge gap.  Alonso was fortunate Vettel's transmission broke yet still way too far behind for people to have entertained notions of his catching up.  Enough with the accusing people of not watching races.  You can be certain I watched it very carefully.

 

Ric provides a great case and point. Kimi was ahead of him too, does that mean he was faster than him too? As we saw later in the race, Ric was challenging the Merc for 2nd place. 

 

You can't just take the first 1/4 of a race, not even a complete stint, and extrapolate that to say he was faster. As pointed out, post #50 on the first page shows the gap coming down with Alonso lapping 0.5 - 0.7 seconds faster than Kimi from laps 17 - 25. 

 

So who was faster than whom, exactly? It's simply mind boggling that you can't see this. 


Edited by apexpredator, 28 May 2014 - 01:40.


#134 fque

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 04:22

In 2005/2006 season, NBA's Heat won the championship who is behind Dallas the entire season.

Dallas finished the season with 60-22 and Heat finished 52-30 and Dallas also won the first two games in the finals, then heat won the next four to seal the deal.

So basically, Dallas was the best team for the entire season and post season bar the last 4 games.

 

So who was the better team?

I don't really see the argument. The team who won will always be the better team.

 

The first one cross the line is more often then not the better driver.

I don't know what drivers are supposed to do in Monaco where you can probably only overtake after the tunnel into the chicane.

And if you are driving the same car as your teammate, are you gonna stick your nose in his gearbox and maybe pressure him into a mistake that might take both of you out or sit back and wait?

Kimi has shown what might happen if you force an issue, I give him credit for trying, but if it was Alonso who tried to overtake and shunt Kimi out, geez imagine the wrath on this forum.

Good effort by Kimi and smart driver by Alonso.

Using a few laps in the first stint is really not a good enough proof that Kimi was better.



#135 Oho

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 04:26

....

 

 

Maybe, unlike you apparently, he simply does not realize that the gap from Räikkönen to Alonso, which Alonso was closing, somehow materialized from thin air and is silly enough to think that at some point Räkkönen must have been going quicker. Well now that you have told him maybe he sees it. Oh I see you coming back with the Alonso was saving tires and in reality was faster all the time which tire saving as it turns out is a very good explanation for him being quicker toward the end of the stint which leaves the matter open.


Edited by Oho, 28 May 2014 - 06:19.


#136 f1RacingForever

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 04:27

Either Raikkonen has had incredibly bad luck in the technical department or there are huge discrepancy between the competence of the staff assigned to Raikkonen and Alonso, Raikkonen has objectively had much greater misfortune with race incidents caused by people hitting him and destroying his position in race, and Raikkonen has clearly received the shorter end of the stick in terms of outcomes of race strategy decisions.

 

Note that I am not saying that Ferrari have purposely caused the portion of these things that were technically under their authority.  I'm merely acknowledging that they are realities, rather than pretending that both drivers have been on equal terms.   Very clear and dramatic ones.

Historically, Kimi has had worse reliability than most of his teammate. It isn't just Ferrari. Not sure what to make of that but it does make you wonder.



#137 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 06:02

Guys, I understand that it was upsetting for some people to see that I thought Raikkonen might have qualified better had there not been a yellow flag.  I see that there seems to be a new consensus that he was not one of the drivers affected by the flag.  My apologies for being ill-informed.  I stand by my objection to see people attempting to suggest that Alonso was faster in the race when Raikkonen started behind and was only getting further and further ahead of Alonso when he was struck by a Russian missile.

 

It's really astonishing how you are going on about Raikkonen's misfortunes, but are totally ignoring Alonso's ERS and brake issues in Monaco.



#138 Oho

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 06:19

It's really astonishing how you are going on about Raikkonen's misfortunes, but are totally ignoring Alonso's ERS and brake issues in Monaco.

 

They were largely if not completely inconsequential, and now that you mention it I doubt Räikkönen would have been given free pass for cooking his brakes.



#139 wift

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 06:22

This is the first race that Kimi would clearly have won against Alonso, without the Chilton accident. You can debate about Barcelona, maybe Kimi would have had a chance with a better strategy but we don't know all the details. 

There is 2 crucial factors in a Monaco Race that you have to nail. Number 1 is the Qualifying, Number 2 being the start.

If it's a dry race, it's very hard to pick up any places after the start. Alonso was clearly better in Qualifying, Räikkönen was clearly better in the start. Who was faster in the race? It's hard to say, because it seemed they were pushing during different laps, and Alonso had some technical problems. But it's pretty clear Kimi had the upperhand in this race before the Chilton incident. 


Edited by wift, 28 May 2014 - 06:27.


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#140 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 06:33

They were largely if not completely inconsequential, and now that you mention it I doubt Räikkönen would have been given free pass for cooking his brakes.

 

Just like Kimi missing a few laps in FP here and there was, or should have been, completely inconsequential, yet the complaints about that have no end.

Edit: poor troll attempt with "cooking his brakes"


Edited by KnucklesAgain, 28 May 2014 - 06:34.


#141 kosmos

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 06:34

They were largely if not completely inconsequential, and now that you mention it I doubt Räikkönen would have been given free pass for cooking his brakes.

 

How do you know that Alonso cooked his brakes and it was not a failure of one of the breakes or other kind of problem?.



#142 Oho

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 06:35

Just like Kimi missing a few laps in FP here and there was, or should have been, completely inconsequential, yet the complaints about that have no end.

 

straw-man.jpg



#143 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 06:37

[strawman]

 

Look, photon keeps repeating that Kimi is the only Ferrari driver who ever had technical difficulties. It's just not true.



#144 Oho

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 06:42

How do you know that Alonso cooked his brakes and it was not a failure of one of the breakes or other kind of problem?.

 

Because he cooked his brakes, that much has been said, as for the underlying reason I did net even speculate merely noted that had it been in Kimi's car I doubt your ilk would have given him an easy pass.


Edited by Oho, 28 May 2014 - 07:00.


#145 boldhakka

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 07:01

Look, photon keeps repeating that Kimi is the only Ferrari driver who ever had technical difficulties. It's just not true.

 

Come on man, you know @photon and a few others (*cough* angels and tifosi *cough*) aren't exactly the most reasonable posters in this thread. 

 

You guys get provoked by these posters and when someone reasonable like @vesuvius or me come forward with a simple hypothesis, you come out with all guns blazing like you're still responding to @photon and their ilk.

 

If they say stuff that's trivially and demonstrably wrong (like now), put them on ignore and move on please. 



#146 Konsta

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 07:14

Look, photon keeps repeating that Kimi is the only Ferrari driver who ever had technical difficulties. It's just not true.

Ferrari this season has been more fragile than anyone had hoped but for some odd reason there has been a HUGE discrepancy between the two cars. Both have had problems but not to the similar amount - not by a long shot.



#147 kosmos

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 07:18

Because he cooked his brakes, that much has been said,


Ok

#148 Knot

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 07:26

How do you know that Alonso cooked his brakes and it was not a failure of one of the breakes or other kind of problem?.

 

 Cooking one side of front brakes with no mechanical error is like only popping one part of a balloon.



#149 as65p

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 07:36

Come on guys, Alonsos troubles are his own problem, let's stay focussed on how unjust the team, his car and the world at large is against Kimi.

 

We desperately need someone to compile a "list of Kimis misfortunes" and put it in his signature, like it was done for Hamilton in 2012. Won't anyone step forward and take such heavy but indefinitely honourable burden?



#150 Acathla

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 07:39

Come on guys, Alonsos troubles are his own problem, let's stay focussed on how unjust the team, his car and the world at large is against Kimi.

 

We desperately need someone to compile a "list of Kimis misfortunes" and put it in his signature, like it was done for Hamilton in 2012. Won't anyone step forward and take such heavy but indefinitely honourable burden?

 

It won't fit in a signature.