3968 replies to this topic

[Mally11]

It's a shame. This 2014 ball of chaos just keeps expanding. As a Raikkoken fan this has been the hardest season to watch. He has made mistakes, Ferrari has made mistakes and some bad luck to boot.

This is racing though and things don't always go your way.

I'll reiterate my point from after Austria - Alonso is easily doing the better job but it's hard to compare them when FA said after I did "71 quali laps" whilst KR said "I struggle to put on lap together".

If you watch his interview on the lawnmower with Martin Brundle he says exactly what people on here and I have been saying all along.

When asked about being Alonso's teammate:
"It's fine, he's fast, one of the best in the world so obviously he's been faster than me. But I would be more surprised if I would be faster because of the issues I have been having but I know that when I get things as I want I can fight with him.

Asked about this season:
"Sometimes I have good speed but it doesn't last long enough and I need something very specific to be happy with the car and right now it's not happening so it's kind of trying to find a solution in every circuit but then one corners good and the next one bad. So it's kind of a comprise and it's very difficult for me to put even one lap together".

[Ncedi]

It sure is. There is no doubt this Ferrari is one of the worst cars Kimi has ever driven hence his poor results. Give him a great car and he will be up the front once again.

 

Give Chilton a great car and he'll be up front too.

[Jovanotti]

I'll say it again, soon he will be compared to Yuji Ide. Keep it up

[Cesc]

It's a shame. This 2014 ball of chaos just keeps expanding. As a Raikkoken fan this has been the hardest season to watch. He has made mistakes, Ferrari has made mistakes and some bad luck to boot.

This is racing though and things don't always go your way.

I'll reiterate my point from after Austria - Alonso is easily doing the better job but it's hard to compare them when FA said after I did "71 quali laps" whilst KR said "I struggle to put on lap together".

 

To me, using the bolded sentence I would say that the comparision is very easy. I'm pretty sure that for Alonso doing 71 quali laps is not that easy neither.

[kosmos]

I'll reiterate my point from after Austria - Alonso is easily doing the better job but it's hard to compare them when FA said after I did "71 quali laps" whilst KR said "I struggle to put on lap together".

 

 

Maybe you should youtube "alonso on board" and see for yourself that he also struggles with this car, kudos to him to being good enough to drive around the problems more often than not, a trademark of his entire career.

[Gorma]

To me, using the bolded sentence I would say that the comparision is very easy. I'm pretty sure that for Alonso doing 71 quali laps is not that easy neither.

The thing is that Alonso always says that. He's always giving one hundred million percent etc. Kimi on the other hand is always saying that he could do better. Even if he wins.

 

Maybe you should youtube "alonso on board" and see for yourself that he also struggles with this car, kudos to him to being good enough to drive around the problems more often than not, a trademark of his entire career.

You could also say that the car suits him better rather than saying he drives around the problems. It's the same thing. 

[Kenstate]

As an alonso fan, I have no problem freely admitting that this car suits alonso's driving style better. But I honestly cannot remember the last time a highly regarded WDC was trounced this badly. Like even when we're talking in terms of mediocre drivers to great teammates, the difference is usually only around 2-3 tenths. However, at some tracks this year we're seeing 0.7 tenths, sometimes even more than a second between kimi and alonso.

 

So either this is the world's most undriveable car for anyone not named alonso, or kimi just has a super narrow operating window where if he doesn't hit the sweet spot, he ends up looking worse than nelson piquet Jr. 

[as65p]

The thing is that Alonso always says that. He's always giving one hundred million percent etc. Kimi on the other hand is always saying that he could do better. Even if he wins.

 

You could also say that the car suits him better rather than saying he drives around the problems. It's the same thing. 

 

No it's not. We got two drivers who have driven a large variance of cars in their careers. One of them managed to push all of those cars close to their maximum, the other has repeatedly struggled to match his teammates with a few of the cars he's driven, notably the 2008/09 Ferrari and indeed also the Lotus of 2012/13 at various stages.

 

Unless you think all of Alonsos cars somewhat magically suited him, the conclusion is that Alonso is better at adapting. It's not exactly unheard of that some drivers are more fickle than others in their demands of car characteristics. Button is another example, and arguably Vettel this season.

[kosmos]

The thing is that Alonso always says that. He's always giving one hundred million percent etc. Kimi on the other hand is always saying that he could do better. Even if he wins.

You could also say that the car suits him better rather than saying he drives around the problems. It's the same thing.

Suit him better?, probably, still his life driving the car is not easy.

Some prople here talk like this car is a dream for Alonso and a nightmare for Kimi, and is not the case.

Edited by kosmos, 09 July 2014 - 09:28.

[Ncedi]

I'll say it again, soon he will be compared to Yuji Ide. Keep it up

 

That's not the point...the point is give any one of the drivers on the grid a great car and they'll be up front. Kimi can't just be good when the car is perfect. I mean look at Perez/Hulkenberg, Perez has the more stand out results but I believe Hulkenberg is just better. Point and squirt tracks suit Perez and he'll beat Nico there (when the car is perfect for him) but anywhere else he is nowhere near.

 

The F14T is a tough car to drive, the stars are unlikely to align for Kimi this year and perhaps next year as well. Even if they do, you can bet Alonso will be on it as well...and when Alonso senses a result, there's no stopping him.

[Mally11]

I'm sure doing "71 quali laps" is difficult as well. Alonso is doing a really good job I don't disagree. My point just hoped to show and compare where the two drivers are with this F14-T. One is doing well and the other is not for the reasons Kimi mentioned.

[Acathla]

At the beginning of the season Kimi would show Alonso a lesson hence a lot of people here. Now that (bad luck, car and Kimi underperforming) isn't true, Kimi should raise his game. Let's do the track walks (for example) and try to adapt to the car, If he doesn't, Alonso will continue to beat him. 

[Cesc]

I'm sure doing "71 quali laps" is difficult as well. Alonso is doing a really good job I don't disagree. My point just hoped to show and compare where the two drivers are with this F14-T. One is doing well and the other is not for the reasons Kimi mentioned.

All in all, for whatever reason, Alonso is leaving Kimi's reputation to the lowest level one could expect, and I don't care about the reasons (setup, tires, etc...). Those reasons are not external to F1, they are part of it.

 

Here we have a driver at the peak of his slef-confidence against another one that seems to be in the last stages of his career, this do not seems the Kimi I remember in 2003-2006. Unless he start to score points regularly (P7, P8, at least) I don't think he'll continue. But I'm just especulating.

[noisewater]

As an alonso fan, I have no problem freely admitting that this car suits alonso's driving style better.

...or kimi just has a super narrow operating window where if he doesn't hit the sweet spot, he ends up looking worse than nelson piquet Jr. 

I think it might be a combination of both factors. The car seems to have elements that suit Alonso better (even though the car is definitely a handful for Fernando as well) which is of course logical because he's had the opportunity to provide some input in to this year's car beforehand when the car was still being designed.

And it certainly does appear that Raikkonen has a very narrow operating window. He seems to even admit that himself in that Sky F1 lawnmower feature with Brundle. Raikkonen is probably still capable of driving around some of the handling problems but he appears to be a lot less adaptable than Alonso for instance. And that is of course a weakness compared to Alonso.

[xmoonrakerx]

Part IV maybe?

[Gorma]

No it's not. We got two drivers who have driven a large variance of cars in their careers. One of them managed to push all of those cars close to their maximum, the other has repeatedly struggled to match his teammates with a few of the cars he's driven, notably the 2008/09 Ferrari and indeed also the Lotus of 2012/13 at various stages.

 

Unless you think all of Alonsos cars somewhat magically suited him, the conclusion is that Alonso is better at adapting. It's not exactly unheard of that some drivers are more fickle than others in their demands of car characteristics. Button is another example, and arguably Vettel this season.

Sure Kimi has struggled, but during those four seasons you mentioned he still managed five wins and 24 other podiums. It's not like he was totally useless.

 

What I am saying is that this is not Kimi at his best and that he will perform better once the car suits him better. Sure that is his weakness and a well known one. What I am opposed is that people are saying that this is Kimi's normal level of performance and that he has never been that good to begin with. That is simply not the case. 

[Cyanide]

Kimi on partnership with Alonso: "It's fine, he's fast, he's one of the best in the world so obviously he's been faster than me; I would be more surprised if I would be faster because of the issues we are having. But I know when I get things how I want I can fight with him but that's not the issue. He's a nice guy, experienced guy, so we have no problems." 

[Ncedi]

Kimi on partnership with Alonso: "It's fine, he's fast, he's one of the best in the world so obviously he's been faster than me; I would be more surprised if I would be faster because of the issues we are having. But I know when I get things how I want I can fight with him but that's not the issue. He's a nice guy, experienced guy, so we have no problems." 

 

If Massa had said this he would be accused of trying to big himself up (I joke, I joke or....)

 

Anyway good attitude from Kimi, he'll get it right soon enough 

[SophieB]

Okay, kosmos has asked if he can start the next phase of the thread to keep the consistency of his graphics and tables and i said yes. It is appreciated that he does this because now I now there's a new thread, and because i was waiting for it, I knew to be ready to close this one so people didn't get confused which one to post in. So, see you here: