69 replies to this topic

[AlmightyGod]

Following the Monaco GP weekend a few things have been made public to the fans. 

 

It has come to light that Mercedes initially forbade their drivers from using a particular engine setting, but at the Spanish GP, Lewis used the setting to stay ahead of Nico. When asked about this, lewis mentioned that Nico was actually the first to use the setting at the Bahrain GP. 

 

Wolff no more underhand tactics. Toto mentions what happened in barcelona

 

http://www.planetf1....derhand-tactics

 

 

Here Rosberg denied anything happened regarding engine settings at Barcelona 

 

http://www1.skysport...off-at-mercedes

 

 

This engine setting arrangement surely guarantees that one of the drivers will attempt pull a fast one to jump the other, paving the way for distrust and underhand tactics within the team. What about the team deciding what race all the modes can be used and when they can't depending on which driver it will benefit, sort of a technical team order .

 

Excerpt from David Coulthard's BBC column

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/27569594

 

'It emerged in Monaco that one of the contributory factors to the dispute was that Hamilton had used a 'boost' mode on his engine during their battle for victory at the previous race in Spain when the drivers had been forbidden from doing so. That appears to have annoyed Rosberg'

 

'But firstly Hamilton said Rosberg himself had done the same thing during their fight in Bahrain, so it was effectively neutralised.

And secondly, having something that can make performance better and asking a driver not to use it is like asking a kid not to lick an ice cream.

You can ask, you can chastise them afterwards, but you knew what was going to happen and you'd actually be disappointed if they did not show the very instincts that children should show.

It's the same with competitive people. You cannot expect a natural born winner not to use every tool at his disposal and every trick in the book to its full potential if it is accessible to him, as long as it is legal.'

 

 

Edited by AlmightyGod, 27 May 2014 - 07:55.

[Asterion]

Vehemently disagree. Some Merc high-ups may have their own favorite, but I'm convinced that they treat both drivers equally.

Edited by Asterion, 26 May 2014 - 14:48.

[SR388]

I don't like how some of the things have played out. I question if there is some favoritism, but I am not ready to claim that there is foul play afoot.

[DrivenF1]

I don't like how some of the things have played out. I question if there is some favoritism, but I am not ready to claim that there is foul play afoot.

 

I agree. I think the team are doing a pretty good job at being fair to both drivers but there's enough for both sides to start feeling uncomfortable!

[F1Newbie]

I'm a bit perplexed with this story and how it was leaked.

[P123]

I think the team are trying to be as fair as possible, although maybe that neuters the battle a little.

[EthanM]

Mercedes saw that the simpletons blamed Red Bull for their period of domination so they are trying every trick in the book to fake a Prost v Senna v2 thing, thinking that people will get distracted by it and won't pay attention to the fact their car is 2 seconds a lap faster than everybody else and tune out.

 

So yeah they are "engineering" the semblance of a closer championship, though not the championship per se.

[Lazy]

I don't like how some of the things have played out. I question if there is some favoritism, but I am not ready to claim that there is foul play afoot.

The idea that they would go to all the trouble and expense to hire Lewis and then play favourite to a driver they had already is absurd.

[Andrew Hope]

I sincerely hope they are screwing with the championship. I want underhanded tactics! Backstabbing! Lying! Cheating! To hell with two-faced people, I want 44-faced Merc personnel. I want it to get leaked that they figured out how to double the turbo power but only gave it to Hamilton, but then Rosberg's engineers developed wind-repellent paint that reduces the drag of the car to roughly the turbulence generated by a paper airplane and kept it to themselves. I want both Mercs to high tail it out to a 40-second lead on lap 3 in Canada and then take each other out on the last corner of the race. I want Rosberg and Hamilton to finish 1-2 every race this year and go from hugs in parc-ferme to fat old men from the FIA having to restrain them after the race like two rednecks fighting over a girl in a bar. I want whoever finished 2nd to drive into the #1 spot after the race and punch anyone who tries to remove him. If I want polite inter-team battles I'll watch Force India.

[TurboF1]

No. i believe they are being as fair as can be expected considering the position they're in. If theyre gonna play favorite in any way, it won't happen until the WCC is wrapped up, and even then, I personally doubt it.as was said earlier, I think some of the higher ups may have a driver they back more for whatever reason, but I don't think that'll manifest itself into favorable treatment for one more than the other...

[Nonesuch]

The plot thickens...

 

Paddy Lowe, Mercedes’ technical chief: “We were pleased to put on a good show in Bahrain and (...) hopefully we can give them some more entertainment this weekend."

 

Edited by Nonesuch, 26 May 2014 - 15:45.

[Massa_f1]

The plot thickens...

 

 

 

I said to my friend the moment he said that it Is likely they will always keep their drivers close on track to make it more entertaining for the fans, because lets face it. If every race was like China and Malaysia I think everyone would just be bored silly.

[sopa]

What would Mercedes marketing department and HQ's think, this is an important question? I doesn't mean they'd organize a rigged championship, but which scenario would they like to ideally see?

 

They have a British and a German driver, both super-important markets. So ideally they'd like both of them to fight it out. They'd like a close fight, so that both fanbases are attracted to F1 as well as general F1 wouldn't tune off due to boredom, but would enjoy the fight between MERCEDES super-cars.

 

But would Mercedes board like it to be an overemotional dramatic fight like Andrew Hope proposed? Because this means they could start gathering enemies more so than friends and fans. And both German and British fanbases could be angry based on how it plays out.

 

Or is any marketing good marketing for Mercedes as long as it creates attention? Even if it goes down to underhanded tactics and Mercedes would be blamed for cheating?

Edited by sopa, 26 May 2014 - 16:13.

[superdelphinus]

I sincerely hope they are screwing with the championship. I want underhanded tactics! Backstabbing! Lying! Cheating! To hell with two-faced people, I want 44-faced Merc personnel. I want it to get leaked that they figured out how to double the turbo power but only gave it to Hamilton, but then Rosberg's engineers developed wind-repellent paint that reduces the drag of the car to roughly the turbulence generated by a paper airplane and kept it to themselves. I want both Mercs to high tail it out to a 40-second lead on lap 3 in Canada and then take each other out on the last corner of the race. I want Rosberg and Hamilton to finish 1-2 every race this year and go from hugs in parc-ferme to fat old men from the FIA having to restrain them after the race like two rednecks fighting over a girl in a bar. I want whoever finished 2nd to drive into the #1 spot after the race and punch anyone who tries to remove him. If I want polite inter-team battles I'll watch Force India.

Tremendous post, and one that I heartily endorse

[HuddersfieldTerrier1986]

No

[superdelphinus]

Without the DNF in Australia wouldnt hamilton have one of the biggest leads over a teammate? Oh no actually, very clever merc

[f1supreme]

Without the DNF in Australia wouldnt hamilton have one of the biggest leads over a teammate? Oh no actually, very clever merc

but he did get a dnf,and his engineer changed his setup after p2 in barcelona,without lewis permission.i think thats why lewis wasnt happy with his engineer in barca.it nearly cost him the win.f1 is a dodgy sport sometimes,with all the politics behind the scenes.getting viewers back is very important.

[rhukkas]

They are trying to stoke up interest in F1, yes. hence the weird quotes that were filtering out. They know their dominance will turn people away from F1, and that's bad for their shareholders. They need to stoke the fires to keep people watching their cars.

 

What happened at monaco though... I think that wasn't part of the strategy

[DriveFastLiveSlow]

Without the DNF in Australia wouldnt hamilton have one of the biggest leads over a teammate? Oh no actually, very clever merc

 

Are you seriously implicating Merc compromised his first race? Does that make any sense in your thoughts? I'm really interested in reading your reasoning.

[bub]

I really don't think Merc are trying to artificially engineer anything. It looks to me like they are trying their best to be fair but it's difficult because the drivers are doing their own thing and taking matters into their own hands. It really looks to me that Merc are trying not to take sides and are trying their best to let the drivers race with equality whilst also trying to maximize the results for the team. I actually have a lot of respect for Merc for the way they have handled things so far (from what I've seen).

Edited by bub, 26 May 2014 - 17:47.

[bub]

 

So yeah they are "engineering" the semblance of a closer championship, though not the championship per se.

 

How are they doing this exactly?

[peroa]

I really don't think Merc are trying to artificially engineer anything. It looks to me like they are trying their best to be fair but it's difficult because the drivers are doing their own thing and taking matters into their own hands. It really looks to me that Merc are trying not to take sides, are trying their best to let the drivers race with equality whilst also trying to maximize the results for the team. I actually have a lot of respect for Merc for the way they have handled things so far (from what I've seen).

The testing schedule/program and some team quotes suggest otherwise but that is probably coincidence...

[LeMans86]

Following the Monaco GP weekend a few things have been made public to the fans. 
 
It has come to light that Mercedes initially forbade their drivers from using a particular engine setting, but at the Spanish GP, Lewis used the setting to stay ahead of Nico. When asked about this, lewis mentioned that Nico was actually the first to use the setting at the Bahrain GP. 
 
Wolff no more underhand tactics. Toto mentions what happened in barcelona
 
http://www.planetf1....derhand-tactics 
 
Here Rosberg denied anything happened regarding engine settings at Barcelona 
 
http://www1.skysport...off-at-mercedes
 
 
This engine setting arrangement surely guarantees that one of the drivers will attempt pull a fast one to jump the other, paving the way for distrust and underhand tactics within the team. What about the team deciding what race all the modes can be used and when they can't depending on which driver it will benefit, sort of a technical team order .

Just to clear things up regarding engine setting: it's not like a 'secret' engine setting they aren't allowed to use. After the last pitstop they simply turn the engine down a bit to conserve it. To keep the fight fair, both drivers do this at the same time. However, both of them apparently changed the setting back to a more powerful mode at some point.

I think however that it's more fair to let the drivers/engineers choose what setting can best be used at what point for each individually. One driver might be able to run leaner/lower power early on and turn it up at the end.
Same with pitstops, for the show it would be better to each have a strategist that looks specifically to get the best result for his driver. Although Merc does do quite a good job in that regard, for exammple with drivers using different tyre strategies etc.

Edited by LeMans86, 26 May 2014 - 17:28.

[bub]

The testing schedule/program and some team quotes suggest otherwise but that is probably coincidence...

 

The testing I know about and I don't think it means much but which team quotes are the most suspicious?

[P0inters]

I really don't think Merc are trying to artificially engineer anything. It looks to me like they are trying their best to be fair but it's difficult because the drivers are doing their own thing and taking matters into their own hands. It really looks to me that Merc are trying not to take sides, are trying their best to let the drivers race with equality whilst also trying to maximize the results for the team. I actually have a lot of respect for Merc for the way they have handled things so far (from what I've seen).

I can see a vacant seat or maybe even 2 opening up at Merc next year if things keep going the way they are.

[zztopless1]

I sincerely hope they are screwing with the championship. I want underhanded tactics! Backstabbing! Lying! Cheating! To hell with two-faced people, I want 44-faced Merc personnel. I want it to get leaked that they figured out how to double the turbo power but only gave it to Hamilton, but then Rosberg's engineers developed wind-repellent paint that reduces the drag of the car to roughly the turbulence generated by a paper airplane and kept it to themselves. I want both Mercs to high tail it out to a 40-second lead on lap 3 in Canada and then take each other out on the last corner of the race. I want Rosberg and Hamilton to finish 1-2 every race this year and go from hugs in parc-ferme to fat old men from the FIA having to restrain them after the race like two rednecks fighting over a girl in a bar. I want whoever finished 2nd to drive into the #1 spot after the race and punch anyone who tries to remove him. If I want polite inter-team battles I'll watch Force India.

 

I want you to conduct the post race interviews.

[AlmightyGod]

Just to clear things up regarding engine setting: it's not like a 'secret' engine setting they aren't allowed to use. After the last pitstop they simply turn the engine down a bit to conserve it. To keep the fight fair, both drivers do this at the same time. However, both of them apparently changed the setting back to a more powerful mode at some point.

I think however that it's more fair to let the drivers/engineers choose what setting can best be used at what point for each individually. One driver might be able to run leaner/lower power early on and turn it up at the end.
Same with pitstops, for the show it would be better to each have a strategist that looks specifically to get the best result for his driver. Although Merc does do quite a good job in that regard, for exammple with drivers using different tyre strategies etc.

Nowhere in the OP was this even mentioned or implied.

[BillBald]

I sincerely hope they are screwing with the championship. I want underhanded tactics! Backstabbing! Lying! Cheating! To hell with two-faced people, I want 44-faced Merc personnel. I want it to get leaked that they figured out how to double the turbo power but only gave it to Hamilton, but then Rosberg's engineers developed wind-repellent paint that reduces the drag of the car to roughly the turbulence generated by a paper airplane and kept it to themselves. I want both Mercs to high tail it out to a 40-second lead on lap 3 in Canada and then take each other out on the last corner of the race. I want Rosberg and Hamilton to finish 1-2 every race this year and go from hugs in parc-ferme to fat old men from the FIA having to restrain them after the race like two rednecks fighting over a girl in a bar. I want whoever finished 2nd to drive into the #1 spot after the race and punch anyone who tries to remove him. If I want polite inter-team battles I'll watch Force India.

 

You know, it actually crossed my mind that Lewis might do that in Monaco.

[LeMans86]

Nowhere in the OP was this even mentioned or implied.

It does how I read it.. "Merc forbade drivers using it, suddenly activated it during Bahrain (Rosberg) and Spain (Hamilton)." Sounds like something they aren't allowed to use at all.

[CHIUNDA]

You know, it actually crossed my mind that Lewis might do that in Monaco.

Lewis will never do that. Of that you can be sure.

Edited by CHIUNDA, 26 May 2014 - 20:05.

[pdac]

If the team were orchestrating the action to keep a close fight going, then that would please the FIA and most certainly Bernie's lot. Maybe they're after some of those secret FIA deals and vetos that Ferrari have.

[Coops3]

I'm a bit perplexed with this story and how it was leaked.

It was Lauda if I'm not mistaken. He's not historically been one to worry about putting his foot in it.

[LeMans86]

You know, it actually crossed my mind that Lewis might do that in Monaco.

With the fact that Rosberg would get first choice on the pitstop, I expected Lewis to scream into the radio 3/4 into a lap that he thought he had a (slow) puncture and would come in for new tyres that lap, to create an undercut on Rosberg. At least that's the kind of thing I'd do..

[superdelphinus]

Are you seriously implicating Merc compromised his first race? Does that make any sense in your thoughts? I'm really interested in reading your reasoning.

No, it was a joke

[superdelphinus]

I do like the fact that they both turned tiger mode on, and the car went completely completely fast

[CHIUNDA]

With the fact that Rosberg would get first choice on the pitstop, I expected Lewis to scream into the radio 3/4 into a lap that he thought he had a (slow) puncture and would come in for new tyres that lap, to create an undercut on Rosberg. At least that's the kind of thing I'd do..

He should have used the dirt in eye thing on the lap Sutil crashed

[AlmightyGod]

It does how I read it.. "Merc forbade drivers using it, suddenly activated it during Bahrain (Rosberg) and Spain (Hamilton)." Sounds like something they aren't allowed to use at all.

Ah!. How you read it. If it was a secret then the drivers won't know about it. That's how I read it  

 

The second part I emboldened wasn't said by me 

Edited by AlmightyGod, 26 May 2014 - 21:17.

[HeadFirst]

The idea that they would go to all the trouble and expense to hire Lewis and then play favourite to a driver they had already is absurd.

Agreed.

[baddog]

No that is silly. The team are concerned that reliability is not compromised which is what the engine mode stuff is about, and all it is about, they have some extra modes available perhaps with the intention of using them in the last few laps of an engine's planned life, for example, or in a very close situation in the WDC finale. Obviously drivers being drivers (and their race engineers probably) will try to gain a boost at a vital moment which is why after Bahrain they said please don't do this any more. Once Spain happened it became clear that merely telling drivers not to do it wont work. So now they stop it directly.

 

Once in races the team likely tries to take 1st/2nd in the order of the cars on track as their preference, but in merc's case they have opted to do this only by allowing the front guy the pit choices, not by forbidding racing on track.

[f1RacingForever]

I sincerely hope they are screwing with the championship. I want underhanded tactics! Backstabbing! Lying! Cheating! To hell with two-faced people, I want 44-faced Merc personnel. I want it to get leaked that they figured out how to double the turbo power but only gave it to Hamilton, but then Rosberg's engineers developed wind-repellent paint that reduces the drag of the car to roughly the turbulence generated by a paper airplane and kept it to themselves. I want both Mercs to high tail it out to a 40-second lead on lap 3 in Canada and then take each other out on the last corner of the race. I want Rosberg and Hamilton to finish 1-2 every race this year and go from hugs in parc-ferme to fat old men from the FIA having to restrain them after the race like two rednecks fighting over a girl in a bar. I want whoever finished 2nd to drive into the #1 spot after the race and punch anyone who tries to remove him. If I want polite inter-team battles I'll watch Force India.

I hope you are joking.

[f1RacingForever]

All these silly conspiracy theories make me sick. It's pretty clear the team has treated both drivers fairly thus far. Don't understand how or why some people come up with this stuff.

[OvDrone]

I want Rosberg and Hamilton to finish 1-2 every race this year and go from hugs in parc-ferme to fat old men from the FIA having to restrain them after the race like two rednecks fighting over a girl in a bar. I want whoever finished 2nd to drive into the #1 spot after the race and punch anyone who tries to remove him. If I want polite inter-team battles I'll watch Force India.

 

/thread

 

**** that

 

/racingcoments

[femi]

I agree. I think the team are doing a pretty good job at being fair to both drivers but there's enough for both sides to start feeling uncomfortable!

Why would Nico feel uncomfortable? 

[garagetinkerer]

With the fact that Rosberg would get first choice on the pitstop, I expected Lewis to scream into the radio 3/4 into a lap that he thought he had a (slow) puncture and would come in for new tyres that lap, to create an undercut on Rosberg. At least that's the kind of thing I'd do..

 

And the next thing you would do is to possibly hunt for a drive...

[F1ultimate]

I think however that it's more fair to let the drivers/engineers choose what setting can best be used at what point for each individually. One driver might be able to run leaner/lower power early on and turn it up at the end.

This.

If Mer won't let drivers and their own strategists make individual discussions then they might as well put robots in the car.

[AlmightyGod]

The idea that they would go to all the trouble and expense to hire Lewis and then play favourite to a driver they had already is absurd.

I understand your point. Could you consider that at the time Merc hired lewis they never thought they would develop a car that turns out to be vastly superior to anything else?

[baddog]

This.

If Mer won't let drivers and their own strategists make individual discussions then they might as well put robots in the car.

 

You do understand the reason for restrictions on this stuff is reliability? The team would LOVE to be able to run these modes all the time.

[PayasYouRace]

 I want whoever finished 2nd to drive into the #1 spot after the race and punch anyone who tries to remove him.

 

That would be funny. It would also be funny to see his reaction to the FIA official simply swapping the No.1 and No.2 signs from in front of the parked cars.

[seahawk]

I think they are trying to hide the maximum speed of the car, so they are running at safe settings.

[sopa]

I sincerely hope they are screwing with the championship. I want underhanded tactics! Backstabbing! Lying! Cheating! To hell with two-faced people, I want 44-faced Merc personnel. I want it to get leaked that they figured out how to double the turbo power but only gave it to Hamilton, but then Rosberg's engineers developed wind-repellent paint that reduces the drag of the car to roughly the turbulence generated by a paper airplane and kept it to themselves. I want both Mercs to high tail it out to a 40-second lead on lap 3 in Canada and then take each other out on the last corner of the race. I want Rosberg and Hamilton to finish 1-2 every race this year and go from hugs in parc-ferme to fat old men from the FIA having to restrain them after the race like two rednecks fighting over a girl in a bar. I want whoever finished 2nd to drive into the #1 spot after the race and punch anyone who tries to remove him. If I want polite inter-team battles I'll watch Force India.

 

Have to add.

Whoever finishes second, steps onto the top step of the podium and pushes the winner off. The second place man forcefully takes the first place trophy away from the winner and throws it down to the ground into pieces. You better not give them champagne bottles for post-race celebration, because they would turn into "Sutil mode" in dealing with this thing.