49 replies to this topic

[AlmightyGod]

Ferrari is one of the most successful teams in the history of formula 1. They have won many world championships and its a team that lots of drivers dreams of joining. Past successes doesn't guarantee future ones and in the case of Ferrari this couldn't be truer. 

 

Since the success of 2007/2008 ferrari seems to have struggled to produce that special car that can consistently claim wins or at least fight for wins.

 

The question then is this. What steps must the team take to become competitive. They have the resources to do it.

[eronrules]

ADAPT

[Andrew Hope]

Start cheating as good as they used to.

[sopa]

This question should go right up to the FIAT board, where they should ask a serious question - do they really and truly want Ferrari to succeed in F1? If the answer is yes, they should leave no stones unturned. One thing is money, other thing modernizing Ferrari brand and ethos, which if needed would see the change of top management starting from di Montezemolo.

 

I believe in early 90s FIAT also asked this question when Ferrari was in upheaval. As a result FIAT increased Ferrari's budget and things got serious - Todt, Marlboro sponsorship, Schumacher and other Benetton staff, modernizing the whole Ferrari culture. No stones unturned, every aspect needs to be overlooked.

[Maustinsj]

Adrian Newey.

[Slartibartfast]

Have a "friendly chat" with Peter Noll, the judge in the Bernie Ecclestone case. Then, maybe, Don Bernie will return the favour.

[BRG]

This question should go right up to the FIAT board, where they should ask a serious question - do they really and truly want Ferrari to succeed in F1?

 

Now there's a strategy that could bring a rather unwelcome outcome!

 

Such as withdrawal from F1, or rebranding the team as Chrysler or Maserati, or cutting the fat F1 budget......

[GAZF1nut]

Ross Brawn

[DutchQuicksilver]

Better facilities. What I read is their wind tunnel is very outdated.

[mzvztag]

Spend an enourmous amount of money wisely on infrastructure, people and processes and be patient for a few more years.

[TheWilliamzer]

They need to get out of the "glamourous Italian pride" mentality of having an Italian TD and loads of Italian engineers.. No disrespect to the Italian engineering talents but they are not efficient in aero as they are on the mechanical side. The English fought a war with planes and they know how to trick air and you know it takes something extra to master aero.

[taran]

As an outsider it is difficult to know what Ferrari's problem is. The popular saying is that newly signed drivers seeing their resources for the first time wonder why Ferrari doesn't win everything. And after a season wonder how Ferrari ever wins anything.....

 

I think Scuderia Ferrari is run as a company instead of a race team. Too many managers and too slow decision making. And with the cross pollution of people moving from Ferrari S.P.A. to Scuderia Ferrari and vice versa, people develop a corporate mentality (a.k.a. cover your ass). So the team is too conservative, in design, in manufacturing, in strategy, in everything because too many people are too afraid to make the bold decisions. So Ferrari racers are never bad (always in the top 4) but never outstanding/class of the field either. Todt & Brawn were old fashioned racers, fully raised in racing and aware of what was necessary to succeed. In fact, Todt was perhaps the most important person in taming the chaos and infighting at Ferrari in the 1990s and protecting the team from FIAT/Ferrari interference while allowing his picked staff to get on with the job. Ferrari now lacks such a person. Domencalli was too much of a company man to shield the team and Luca has only increased his grip....

 

So I don't expect much improvement tbh....

[apexpredator]

Culture plays a big part in my opinion. Ferrari doesn't seem to strike me as a place that would foster creativity, that's my impression. Obviously I can't speak as an employee. 

 

If you look at all the top creative companies they place a lot of focus on providing the right environment to stimulate innovation. 

 

Ferrari runs like some kind of brutal hierarchical regime that's still stuck in a bygone era, with the head acting like a dictator. 

 

It's overly political, too much bureaucracy and it seems averse to change. 

[Schuttelberg]

Very good topic. 

 

First off, Ferrari need to sack LDM. I have no idea how that's going to happen, but whether it's the board or whoever, they need to get him off the F1 scene certainly.

 

Secondly, Ferrari need to evolve. I think, Domenicali was taking good measures to ensure that, but he's gone. Ferrari need not shed any of the passion they have but they need to be a bit more humble. They need to be more appreciative of people that have served them well.

 

Thirdly, they need to be patient at this moment. It's very easy to panic and sack and pack. They need to believe in themselves and get better. THAT wind tunnel certainly has been an issue for them forever and they need to invest in it ASAP.

 

I'd just like to highlight the points that led to their DOOM.

 

1) The ousting of Brawn/Schumacher after all their years at Ferrari, specially Schumacher. It's not rocket science to figure that he was forced to retire. You don't do that to legends. He was not in his pomp but he was arguably as good as anyone in 2006.

2) The constant promises and press statements by LdM. Highly annoying for Ferrari fans I guess, to be promised so much and delivered so little. As I said earlier, if you're grounded and humble, you at the very least don't make a fool of yourself.

3) The driver handling at Ferrari has been pathetic. First to retire Schumacher, then to fire Raikkonen, hire Alonso, continue with Massa and re-hire Raikkonen. It all sounds quite hilarious. Stability is king. Recognise talent, nurture it but most importantly, respect it. Webber, Vettel, Ricciardo, Hamilton, Button, Rosberg and Alonso in their own stables are examples. Perez didn't make the cut, he was sacked. Massa deserved that long long ago. 

4) They need to evolve by supporting both drivers. Enough pampering Schumacher style ala Alonso.

5) Hire some good people. Only some.

[MetallurgicalHedonist]

Maustinsj wins with his/her answer.

[krod]

http://www.rightmove...ton-Keynes.html

[LORDBYRON]

buy 51% of Caterham and re brand it  

[Alexandros]

Use their political power to push for more testing and requesting a wider selection of tire constructions + compounds.

Edited by Alexandros, 27 May 2014 - 20:53.

[RuleyRamundo]

Move to the Milton Keynes area, AN must be interested then

 

Let AN build Ferrari boats and road cars, job done.

 

Get Hamilton and Kvyat as drivers.

[scheivlak]

Maustinsj wins with his/her answer.

But, as Adrian told us himself this weekend, it won't happen. End of story.

 

I think the Scuderia makes it difficult for itself by having an attitude like they have a godgiven right to be #1.

I think right now what is asked for is a certain amount of humbleness and being prepared to work really hard as a team. Having that kind of team spirit is maybe at least as important now as fishing for a top designer - I think those top guys will only come if they feel that they will be part of a really productive team effort. And, as others have pointed out, it might be necessary to do something about the hierarchy and politics in the organisation - IMHO the first guy who has to be a bit more humble, and keeping to his overall strategic role and nothing more,  is Luca de Montezemolo.

[Maustinsj]

Maustinsj wins with his/her answer.

 

Yay! I win.

 

I am a he.

 

Bod (my avatar) is also a he. 

[Maustinsj]

But, as Adrian told us himself this weekend, it won't happen. End of story.

 

I think the Scuderia makes it difficult for itself by having an attitude like they have a godgiven right to be #1.

I think right now what is asked for is a certain amount of humbleness and being prepared to work really hard as a team. Having that kind of team spirit is maybe at least as important now as fishing for a top designer - I think those top guys will only come if they feel that they will be part of a really productive team effort. And, as others have pointed out, it might be necessary to do something about the hierarchy and politics in the organisation - IMHO the first guy who has to be a bit more humble, and keeping to his overall strategic role and nothing more,  is Luca de Montezemolo.

 

Yes, I agree.

 

It won't happen.

 

They do need him, though.

[Watkins74]

They have been competitive in recent years. What they haven't been is the best.

Edited by Watkins74, 27 May 2014 - 21:30.

[toofast]

Get Mercedes engine. Ferrari-Mercedes 

[4MEN]

buy 51% of Caterham and re brand it  

Not a bad idea. Alfa Romeo or Abarth sounds nice. But who am I to give Ferrari ANY idea!?

And use a english based team to spy on the competition.

[artista]

And how do you guys know the last changes they have done aren't the ones that would make them win again?

I mean, I'm not saying last changes (Allison, etc) are the solution to the problem, because I don't know if they are BUT, since in R&D results are never evident in the short term, how can you be sure Ferrari has not already done what they should?

[/Philosophic mode off]

[Disgrace]

The fish rots from the head down. di Montezemolo has had his day.

[Lights]

They need a lead driver.

 

EDIT: Sorry, wrong thread.

Edited by Lights, 27 May 2014 - 22:04.

[George Costanza]

The man is Ross Brawn.

 

Ferrari would never be in this mess had Ross been the TP in 2006 and beyond.

 

I am convinced if Ross worked with Fernando Alonso, he would be a 4 time WDC as of now.

Edited by George Costanza, 27 May 2014 - 22:12.

[bogi]

They need a lead driver.

 

EDIT: Sorry, wrong thread.

 

Well played sir.

[DutchQuicksilver]

The man is Ross Brawn.

 

Ferrari would never be in this mess had Ross been the TP in 2006 and beyond.

 

I am convinced if Ross worked with Fernando Alonso, he would be a 4 time WDC as of now.

You mean the same Ross who couldn't solve Mercedes' tyre woes for four years in a row?

[George Costanza]

You mean the same Ross who couldn't solve Mercedes' tyre woes for four years in a row?

It took Ross time before he ever won at Benetton and Ferrari.

 

So, yes, 2014 can be credited to Ross.

[Farhannn15]

You mean the same Ross who couldn't solve Mercedes' tyre woes for four years in a row?

. So you mean the same Ross Brawn who was instrumental to the dominance of Mercedes in 2014?

[TomNokoe]

Think this thread is a lil premature. Wait for Canada...

[warp]

They need to get out of the "glamourous Italian pride" mentality of having an Italian TD and loads of Italian engineers.. No disrespect to the Italian engineering talents but they are not efficient in aero as they are on the mechanical side. The English fought a war with planes and they know how to trick air and you know it takes something extra to master aero.

 

 

 

You do know that the Germans were thinking about buying the Fiat G.55 Centauro?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_G.55

 

Apparently Italians (at Fiat, no less!) knew a thing or two about aero.

 

That proves nothing. If you have told me about the pool of engineering resources available in England dedicated to solely motorsports, then I'd buy it.

 

Simply put, the fact that most F1 teams are based in England means more ideas and talent is exchanged there. Much difficult for an Italian engineer to get a job in motorsports, so your pool of resources becomes smaller.

 

To make matters even more ironic, the issues with the current car are mechanical (PU, chassis) rather than aero.

 

Agreed that they need to change their culture and actually Mattiacci is supposedly working on it.

Edited by warp, 29 May 2014 - 01:22.

[rodlamas]

Well

 

1) Request a ban on some Mercedes engine materials, just like in 2000/2001

2) Get a tire manufacturer to work for them, just like in 2001/2006

3) Hire a fantastic top driver and a second driver that likes to be there, just like 2000/2005

4) Hire a team management that can control the FIA and even say that in Malaysia 30cm are not the same 30cm in Paris (like Malaysia 1999)

5) Destroy in-season testing ban by putting 100 days of testing with 3 cars at 2 tracks + 1,000 sets of tires that nobody but them has access

 

It's simple, doable and Ferrari has done it on the recent past. No need for Newey, Prodromu or anything else.

[boldhakka]

Stay in the game long enough. 

[garagetinkerer]

Well

 

1) Request a ban on some Mercedes engine materials, just like in 2000/2001

2) Get a tire manufacturer to work for them, just like in 2001/2006

3) Hire a fantastic top driver and a second driver that likes to be there, just like 2000/2005

4) Hire a team management that can control the FIA and even say that in Malaysia 30cm are not the same 30cm in Paris (like Malaysia 1999)

5) Destroy in-season testing ban by putting 100 days of testing with 3 cars at 2 tracks + 1,000 sets of tires that nobody but them has access

 

It's simple, doable and Ferrari has done it on the recent past. No need for Newey, Prodromu or anything else.

Didn't McLaren leave for Michelin more than the got Bridgestone to work for them? Bridgestone didn't have any other top team to work with really.

 

There's no Schumacher, but enough people have already cried buckets of water... god forbid if Vettel wins more with Ferrari, people here will lose their minds. (i'd love Vettel + Ferrari)

 

Don't remember much details from '99... would you mind sharing a link to such information?

 

Testing ban has been the bane of Ferrari's life. They continued with momentum, but not there's not much left. It shows. Plus as dutchquicksilver said, the wind tunnel is also a big problem. Then again, Allison thinks Ferrari needs to be less conservative.

[Jackmancer]

sign Marc Marquez

[Beamer]

1 find the biggest problem
2 FIX IT!
3 go to step 1
Repeat until everything is FIXED

[Seanspeed]

I see this thread has brought out Ferrari haters and armchair F1 team managers in full force.

[superden]

Buy two Mercedes W05's.

[Ksharp]

Undoubtedly, a better management. Removing the 'fear of failure' culture. 

[meddo]

Easy. Let the engineers call the shots, remove sales managers to sales department, and HR managers to spread gossip (oh, they've already done that)

And never, ever, employ trained butchers to do trained mechanics work. (that's a true story)

[ViMaMo]

I think one of the first things they can do right is to get the right team principal. One who doesn't have to bow to media pressure or pressure from political bosses. 

LdM should try to stay out of trying to manage the team, you know what I mean. Give the team principal a bit of free reign.

 

Improvements in facilities and hiring personnel should happen on a fast track. 

 

Get Ross Brawn back. Listen to him !

Edited by ViMaMo, 29 May 2014 - 14:36.

[Balnazzard]

Well in F1 its always difficult to stay on top...Ferrari had great era, Mclaren has had its great years, both have recently under-performed, that just the way it goes sometimes in F1....Red Bull has had clearly the best car over the last 4 years, not its Mercs turn.

 

But overall I feel that one big thing that needs to happen quite soon is for Montezemolo to retire and and the new leader has to be one who has different approach to leadership than what Luca has....like others have said it seems that the whole Ferrari organization is lead by fear and their whole organization is very old fashioned...one reason why Adrian Newey has refused to go there along with the fact that Ferrari ofcourse for understandable reasons is not going to move anywhere from Maranello...still that is hurting them a bit, cause majority of the teams have their headquarters located in UK. Also I think Ferrari's current principal,  Mattiacci is just going to be there for short term, until Ferrari can get some-one else there...who, that I dont know....For sure people are talking about Ross Brawn returning there, but I think he really has decided to retire. Berger?...he had some experience from Toro Rosso, but again I dont know if he would be the right man for the job. Anyway, I would be suprised if we are still going to see Mattiacci there for long time, but what they really need is some very confident,  capable and good leader like Jean Todt and Ross Brawn were.

[BRG]

Buy two Mercedes W05's.

What, to replace the Red Bulls that Alonso demanded that they buy last year?

[RosannaG]

Interesting words from James Allison. I guess this is the right thread to post this link:

 

http://bleacherrepor...ls-adrian-newey

[RubalSher]

Switch to GP2

[Heisenberg]

They should get rid of Pat Fry!