71 replies to this topic

[ballow]

There was a report that Red Bull are in talks with Volkswagen and would decide in the coming months what direction they would take. If so Mercedes better enjoy their brief dominance  

 

Imagine:  Mercedes vs RB Volkswagen vs McLaren Honda    

 

 

[xmoonrakerx]

Link?

[EthanM]

no they aren't, at least not as far as the world knows... Marko hinted VW might be a possible alternative, said something along the lines they produce "similar" engines to F1 engines for other series, didn't say they are in talks though

[ballow]

no they aren't, at least not as far as the world knows... Marko hinted VW might be a possible alternative, said something along the lines they produce "similar" engines to F1 engines for other series, didn't say they are in talks though

 

 

Oh dont so naive. You think they are going to openly admit it? Did McLaren admit they were in talks with Honda? Marko has a big mouth and I think he just let it slip as he could not help himself due to his frustrations. 

[EthanM]

Oh dont so naive. You think they are going to openly admit it? Did McLaren admit they were in talks with Honda? Marko has a big mouth and I think he just let it slip as he could not help himself due to his frustrations. 

 

or Marco is lighting up a fire up Renault's backside ... your assumptions don't form facts however logical you may think they are

[andrewf1]

There was a report that Red Bull are in talks with Volkswagen and would decide in the coming months what direction they would take. If so Mercedes better enjoy their brief dominance  

 

Imagine:  Mercedes vs RB Volkswagen vs McLaren Honda    

 

Please.

 

If they do, they should enter with Lamborghini engines. Seeing as all their cars are named after famous bulls, the connection would fit.

Edited by andrewf1, 28 May 2014 - 16:20.

[katmen]

Maybe for WV is pain in ass current Mercedes success  and with this engine regulations they realized that hybrid tech is the future and very successful project wit Audi e- tron quattro could be superb basis for development of F1 variant 

[Fastcake]

Oh dont so naive. You think they are going to openly admit it? Did McLaren admit they were in talks with Honda? Marko has a big mouth and I think he just let it slip as he could not help himself due to his frustrations. 

 

McLaren and Honda came after a solid year of speculation and news reports linking the two companies. VW has been linked to Red Bull through one report, which you have not even provided, and are well known to have constantly dithered but never actually commit to Formula One.

 

Please.

 

If they do, they should enter with Lamborghini engines. Seeing as all their cars are named after famous bulls, the connection would fit.

 

I hope they do, I would love to see a Red Bull on fire at the side of the track.

[andrewf1]

I hope they do, I would love to see a Red Bull on fire at the side of the track.

 

Hmm? 

[sabjit]

I'm sick of new threads being set up now discussing rumours that the OP has either made up or has failed to give a link to a credible source.

[Gilles4Ever]

http://www.motorspor...-switch-report/

It's a stretch but it's a link with a quote

[Zoe]

Yeah, remote. The rumours about VAG entering F1 are pretty old and have the tendency to pop up every odd year.

[Mohican]

Maybe not so fanciful.

WRC: Volkswagen, sponsored by Red Bull
DTM: Audi, sponsored by Red Bull

Seat ? Skoda ? Lamborghini ? Bugatti ? Bentley ?

[Tourgott]

Red Bull are not in talks with VW.

Helmut Marko only wants to apply pressure on Renault.

[ballow]

Yeah, remote. The rumours about VAG entering F1 are pretty old and have the tendency to pop up every odd year.

 

 

They were old before the new regs. I can understand them being hesitant about starting a new team and all the overheads that go with it. Looking at how Honda, Toyota and BMW messed up and lost lots of money must have scared them. But being an engine supplier with a 4 x WCC team is very attractive. Seeing Mercedes get all the glory must must make the VW execs green with envy.

 

 

In 2012 as The VWs group's motorsport chief, Hans-Joachim Stuck, told Autosport:

 

"Now it's amazing; Formula One is going the right way," said Stuck. "Many manufacturers have already pulled out, and we don't know how long the others will keep going.

 

"They should become engine manufacturers and then lease the engine, sell the engine or give it to somebody. Then you lose all the hassle with teams, wind tunnels, engineers, you know. It's like Formula 1 in my days. We had March, we had Lotus, and we had Ford engines. Then Renault came in as an engine manufacturer, with a formidable engine. This was perfect.

 

 

http://www.autocar.c...1-engine-supply

Edited by ballow, 28 May 2014 - 17:34.

[Jon83]

There was a report that Red Bull are in talks with Volkswagen and would decide in the coming months what direction they would take. If so Mercedes better enjoy their brief dominance  

 

Imagine:  Mercedes vs RB Volkswagen vs McLaren Honda    

 

I think imagining it is all you / we will ever do. 

[demet06]

Maybe for WV is pain in ass current Mercedes success  and with this engine regulations they realized that hybrid tech is the future and very successful project wit Audi e- tron quattro could be superb basis for development of F1 variant 

 

Don't they use Williams flywheel technology for that though. F1 is using quite different hybrid systems. That's not to say that they won't be open to develop F1 technology themselves.

[loki]

I suppose this counts as the yearly "VW to F1" rumor hashed out what seems like every recent season.  The sport could certainly use a marquee like VW or Audi but given the history I see it as doubtful.

[BRG]

Let's see....VW in WRC, Audi in WEC, DTM and GT, Porsche now in WEC, Skoda in ERC etc, Lambo in GT, Bentley in GT, Bugatti loses money on every car...yes, obviously VAG need to enter F1 and spend even more money.

 

Mind you, SEAT aren't doing anything at the moment.

[Masteroftheuniverse]

I would guess that if VW got involved, they'd use the Audi brand, like they do in other top motorsport categories

[chunder27]

Slow news day

 

No rumours anywhere else about VW or VAG for that matter getting into F1

 

They have absolutely no history of getting into it, and I doubt it would serve their brand well.

 

Maybe Audi could get involved, if theya re getting bored with WEC, I know I am!

[sopa]

As mentioned, VW rumours have popped up every now and then without further substance.

 

Unless there is some solid source and genuine discussion in F1 circles about VW entrance, I remain sceptical.

[ballow]

As mentioned, VW rumours have popped up every now and then without further substance.

 

Unless there is some solid source and genuine discussion in F1 circles about VW entrance, I remain sceptical.

 

 

Guys open you minds

 

 

If you were VW and saw Honda, Toyota and BMW spend billions and under-perform and then withdraw would you join F1? No!

 

If there were new regulations which only required you to supply engines without the overheads of hiring hundreds of staff and without spending hundreds of millions a year would you join F1? very likely just like Honda.

 

Now If you could partner with a 4 x wcc team would you team up with them? Yes!

 

Also it helps that it would be Austro-German Alliance. 

[BRG]

Flight of fancy, ballow.  Red Bull gives you wings......

[sopa]

Guys open you minds

 

 

If you were VW and saw Honda, Toyota and BMW spend billions and under-perform and then withdraw would you join F1? No!

 

If there were new regulations which only required you to supply engines without the overheads of hiring hundreds of staff and without spending hundreds of millions a year would you join F1? very likely just like Honda.

 

Now If you could partner with a 4 x wcc team would you team up with them? Yes!

 

Also it helps that it would be Austro-German Alliance. 

 

Leaving regulation changes aside, the general impression I have got is that VW Group hasn't seen enough "value" in joining F1.

Value in terms of marketing vs spending. Because F1 is still a very expensive affair with budgets of teams in hundreds of millions of Euros. At the same time we see dwindling viewing figures. So these are obvious concerns.

 

VW Group has entered their brands to Le Mans/WEC (Audi), rallying (Škoda, VW), touring cars (SEAT) during the past years/decade. They have seen more value in these series - they are cheaper and have been viable marketing platforms for their brands. Particularly in rallying and touring cars you race with cars that at least "look like cars" and have more direct relevance to the customer. F1 is more like an alien spaceship.

 

I think for VW to seriously consider entering F1, something fundamental has to change about F1 as a sport in general. Adopting hybrid technology has been one step in the right direction, but there is much more than that as well.

[DinocoBlue]

Hmmm  not that I think its happening, but I'd love to see the AutoUnion return. Just not with Red Bull... that brand needs to stay as it is and not become another BMW.Sauber type. (Not saying it would mind, but rather the example of a manufacturer brand overtaking that of the team.)

[Fastcake]

Hmmm  not that I think its happening, but I'd love to see the AutoUnion return. Just not with Red Bull... that brand needs to stay as it is and not become another BMW.Sauber type. (Not saying it would mind, but rather the example of a manufacturer brand overtaking that of the team.)

 

I get the sentiment, but in the case of Red Bull it would just be one marketing operation taking over from another.

[Myrvold]

They were old before the new regs. I can understand them being hesitant about starting a new team and all the overheads that go with it. Looking at how Honda, Toyota and BMW messed up and lost lots of money must have scared them. But being an engine supplier with a 4 x WCC team is very attractive. Seeing Mercedes get all the glory must must make the VW execs green with envy.

 

 

In 2012 as The VWs group's motorsport chief, Hans-Joachim Stuck, told Autosport:

 

"Now it's amazing; Formula One is going the right way," said Stuck. "Many manufacturers have already pulled out, and we don't know how long the others will keep going.

 

 

"They should become engine manufacturers and then lease the engine, sell the engine or give it to somebody. Then you lose all the hassle with teams, wind tunnels, engineers, you know. It's like Formula 1 in my days. We had March, we had Lotus, and we had Ford engines. Then Renault came in as an engine manufacturer, with a formidable engine. This was perfect.

 

 

 

http://www.autocar.c...1-engine-supply

Well, if anything, this is things I like. Make engines, don't buy out teams!

[loki]

Guys open you minds

 

 

If you were VW and saw Honda, Toyota and BMW spend billions and under-perform and then withdraw would you join F1? No!

 

If there were new regulations which only required you to supply engines without the overheads of hiring hundreds of staff and without spending hundreds of millions a year would you join F1? very likely just like Honda.

 

Now If you could partner with a 4 x wcc team would you team up with them? Yes!

 

Also it helps that it would be Austro-German Alliance. 

Our minds are open.   While Marko may think it makes sense for VW to enter, that doesn't mean they are in discussion with them.  You posted a link that is about three years old.  No credible sources are saying there are discussions and more recently than the link you posted VW has stated there weren't interested in Formula 1.

[teejay]

I heard Ford are in talks with Eddie Jordan to restart his team using the Lola MasterCard chasis and a Ford Focus tdi engine.

 

YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST

[aguri]

What manufacturer would VW compete under?

 

Audi has the Auto Union GP history, which they along with mercedes could use as a modern day 'silver arrows' marketing strategy. Imagine Vettel v Rosberg, the battle of the top german drivers in the silver arrows. 

 

But then there is Porsche, which is an extremely strong brand in its own right and super popular with motorsport fans. Furthermore it's probably more easy to adapt formula 1 technology to a porsche super car then it is to the average Audi.

[aguri]

More interesting though, is if this went ahead where would that leave Renault?

 

Lotus and Caterham are a real risk of not being around long term, and if Red Bull jumps ship, STR would likely soon follow.

 

Renault have been a major player in F1 for a long time now. Would be strange to see them go.

[George Costanza]

More interesting though, is if this went ahead where would that leave Renault?

 

Lotus and Caterham are a real risk of not being around long term, and if Red Bull jumps ship, STR would likely soon follow.

 

Renault have been a major player in F1 for a long time now. Would be strange to see them go.

Renault left before after 1997.

 

Had they stayed, I don't think Williams would have been struggling nor would have gotten BMW...

 

BMW would have been somwehre else; maybe McLaren even... Imagine that, McLaren-BMW in F1...

[rodlamas]

We need to make way for 16-17 teams and 6-7 engine manufacturers. This was how F1 was its best and nobody complained. We should get that back.

[Jackmancer]

geez, every year the Volkswagen rumour shows up

 

this is three years old

[David1976]

I dont think this rumour is as unbelievable as it first seems.

 

After all it won't have taken Honda many years to get off the block and build their 2015 power train.

[ollebompa]

What manufacturer would VW compete under?

Audi has the Auto Union GP history, which they along with mercedes could use as a modern day 'silver arrows' marketing strategy. Imagine Vettel v Rosberg, the battle of the top german drivers in the silver arrows.

But then there is Porsche, which is an extremely strong brand in its own right and super popular with motorsport fans. Furthermore it's probably more easy to adapt formula 1 technology to a porsche super car then it is to the average Audi.

I would want them to just use VAG. RedBull-VAG.

[Treads]

It isnt unbelievable, it's just fiction and baseless.

[oetzi]

What manufacturer would VW compete under?

 

Audi has the Auto Union GP history, which they along with mercedes could use as a modern day 'silver arrows' marketing strategy. Imagine Vettel v Rosberg, the battle of the top german drivers in the silver arrows. 

 

But then there is Porsche, which is an extremely strong brand in its own right and super popular with motorsport fans. Furthermore it's probably more easy to adapt formula 1 technology to a porsche super car then it is to the average Audi.

By that logic, what are Renault doing in F1?

 

I get the Audi/Red Bull endurance racing tie up (keeps you up all night, blah blah), but using Audi for F1 doesn't really make sense (NOBODY knows they were Auto-Union apart from anoraks and rabid 'anti-fascists'. Who happily pooter round in VW camper vans, but that's another story...) Porsche aren't really an F1 brand, full stop. Their entire (perceived) history is tied to Le Mans. And I doubt they'd shift enough extra units at enough profit to make F1 worthwhile unless they basically abandon all other marketing a la Ferrari.

 

SEAT might make sense. The brand needs an identity, they like to focus on performance as a differentiator, the cars are parts bin specials so they don't have massive development costs, and the labour and tax deals they have are pretty favourable. Might be worth a gamble.

 

But my money would be on VW coming in as VW. If they come in at all.

 

Or they could just supply the entire grid and badge each team's engine for one of their many and various divisions 

[Burai]

Renault left before after 1997.

 

Had they stayed, I don't think Williams would have been struggling nor would have gotten BMW...

 

BMW would have been somwehre else; maybe McLaren even... Imagine that, McLaren-BMW in F1...

 

Williams didn't struggle because Renault left. They struggled because Adrian Newey left.

 

And I can't even imagine why McLaren would dump Mercedes for BMW. Williams signed with BMW as Mika Hakkinen was winning his first title and were running their test hack just as he was wrapping up the second. There was never a question of McLaren looking elsewhere.

[oetzi]

Williams didn't struggle because Renault left. They struggled because Adrian Newey left.

Since engine supply became a major differentiator (as opposed to when basically everyone was running Cosworths) Williams were at or near the top with Honda, then nowhere, then at or near the top immediately on Renault's arrival, winning before Newey arrived. Then nowhere when Renault left. Then back to the front with BMW. Then nowhere again.

 

I'm not doubting Newey's ability, but his wins prior to Red Bull all came when he was at the team with the best engine. Can't say I blame him for looking for that, it's another aspect of his smartness. And you could argue that the Renault was the best engine (for what he wanted to do with it) over the past few years too. I'm really not saying that Newey doesn't bring anything, just that engine supply appears to be a significant factor in Williams' performance over the years regardless of Newey's presence or absence.

 

Anyway, enough OT from me 

[PayasYouRace]

 Porsche aren't really an F1 brand, full stop.

 

Not true. They have a winning F1 history in their own right with Dan Gurney and had their name on 3 championship winning McLarens.

[oetzi]

Not true. They have a winning F1 history in their own right with Dan Gurney and had their name on 3 championship winning McLarens.

You should perhaps read what I wrote in context:

 

'Porsche aren't really an F1 brand, full stop. Their entire (perceived) history is tied to Le Mans.'

 

You know and I know that Porsche has an F1 history, but the world really doesn't. And trying to teach it would only dilute the positive perception the world already has of the brand.

[oetzi]

Not true. They have a winning F1 history in their own right with Dan Gurney and had their name on 3 championship winning McLarens.

ps I know people knew they made those McLaren engines, but weren't they paid for by and branded TAG? I can't remember if they even used the name Porsche back then? Although I seem to remember them getting laughed at with Arrows - sadly the liveries were far more avant garde than the engine at that point.

[king_crud]

You should perhaps read what I wrote in context:

 

'Porsche aren't really an F1 brand, full stop. Their entire (perceived) history is tied to Le Mans.'

 

You know and I know that Porsche has an F1 history, but the world really doesn't. And trying to teach it would only dilute the positive perception the world already has of the brand.

 

How dare you forget the glory days of Footwork 1991!!!

[PayasYouRace]

ps I know people knew they made those McLaren engines, but weren't they paid for by and branded TAG? I can't remember if they even used the name Porsche back then? Although I seem to remember them getting laughed at with Arrows - sadly the liveries were far more avant garde than the engine at that point.

 

I don't see it as being a huge hurdle to Porsche to return to F1 from the point of view of marketing. They would simply have to stress the success of the 1960s and 1980s and people would get it. "Porsche are back!" That kind of thing.

 

Yeah they were always known as TAG-Porsche engines in the McLarens.

[Jamiednm]

I'd love Audi to get involved in F1. I'd also love BMW to make a comeback, then see them both get humiliated by Mercedes

Edited by Jamiednm, 29 May 2014 - 12:31.

[PayasYouRace]

I'd rather F1 didn't become the private battleground of manufacturers of bank managers' cars. That's what the DTM is for.

[ViMaMo]

Maybe this is just putting pressure on Renault, and nothing else. Red Bull are facked trying to get a new engine and remaining competitive. Takes at least two to 3 years to be competitive. Newey gone, Vettel gone ?

[Mohican]

I think that you misread that situation. Red Bull will stop competing in F1 if they lose Vettel. Not even Ricciardo can play the part of surrogate son like Vettel can, and does.