71 replies to this topic

[GhostR]

Surprised no one (unless I missed it?) Has mentioned that Porsche themselves said they would most likely have gone into F1 if VAG had said no to letting them compete against Audi in LMP1.

It was that close to happening I wouldn't be surprised to see it in the next few years. Especially as the engines begin converging more and more.

[Imateria]

Surprised no one (unless I missed it?) Has mentioned that Porsche themselves said they would most likely have gone into F1 if VAG had said no to letting them compete against Audi in LMP1.

It was that close to happening I wouldn't be surprised to see it in the next few years. Especially as the engines begin converging more and more.

That just means F1 was second best to WEC, which is where Porsche wanted to compete first and foremost.

 

Between WEC (Porsche and Audi), DTM (Audi) GT3 (Porsche, Audi, Bentley), GTE (Porsche), Rallying (VW, Skoda), F3 (VW) and a multitude of one make Porsche series around the world, not to mention the regular rumors of Seat's return to the WTCC, I think VAG is pretty busy motorsport wise and quite a few of those projects are big money ones.

 

I'm going to predict that we'll never see VAG in F1. They've been saying for over a decade now that they don't see it as a cost effective form of motorsport, and nothings changed on that front.

[Heisenberg]

Would be great if Porsche would enter in F1 to supply RB or with an own team, plus they have experience with turbos. Would be great if BMW comes back too, I wonder how well would they do, they had a very good comeback in DTM! But F1 is a different ball game... anyways, the more constructors, the better imo.

[northanmonkee2]

whats the time frame on building a good/competative  pu   for formula1 current regulations ,

must be  at least 18 months plus

even for a big manufacturer with lots of resources

 

 if they started now cant see a usable product before 2017 season 

Edited by northanmonkee2, 29 May 2014 - 21:44.

[Powersteer]

Envisaging VAG throwing money at Red Bull Racing as a racing team under the brand Bugatti and calling they next Formula One car, Type 60, in Bugatti blue of course. That would make my hair stand

[KWSN - DSM]

Envisaging VAG throwing money at Red Bull Racing as a racing team under the brand Bugatti areemtnnd calling they next Formula One car, Type 60, in Bugatti blue of course. That would make my hair stand

 

In disagreement over yet another historical name being raped by a team having zero real connections to the brands glorious past I take it.

 

[sheepgobba]

Surprised no one (unless I missed it?) Has mentioned that Porsche themselves said they would most likely have gone into F1 if VAG had said no to letting them compete against Audi in LMP1.

It was that close to happening I wouldn't be surprised to see it in the next few years. Especially as the engines begin converging more and more.

 

This is something new. I didn't know about this and it's somewhat interesting.

 

I do remember the head of Audi's motorsport saying a couple of years ago or so that with a F1 budget of one year he could run Le Mans for 3 years, something along those lines. 

[GhostR]

That just means F1 was second best to WEC, which is where Porsche wanted to compete first and foremost.

 

Agreed. It may even be the case that VAG allowed Porsche to go head-to-head against Audi in order to passively put an end to the F1 alternative. But it also means F1 was seriously considered within the Porsche structure. It also implies that the individual manufacturers within the VAG group do have the discretion to make a decision to enter F1 should they decide that's the right path for them, and that the VAG oversight possibly only extends to whether to allow their brands to compete head-to-head against each other.

 

VAG has most recently been saying they have no plans to enter F1. But Porsche during that same time period has admitted it was their second choice behind LMP1. So there may not be plans, but there is at least "consideration" and that's a big step along the way. I think they're tempted, and if the power unit rules go in a direction they like, I think we'll see a VAG brand get involved. But it won't be as early as next year. 

 

When does the current Red Bull <-> Renault deal end? If it's through to the end of, say, 2015 I could see Red Bull going looking at what alternatives might be available for 2016 onwards. Everything from switching from Renault to an existing alternative (most likely Honda given Mercedes will continue to refuse and the Ferrari is equally bad as the Renault compared to the Merc) through to convincing an outsider to join (hence VAG rumours constantly cropping up), through to possibly building their own (or paying all the R&D for someone else to build it for them and then badge it ... which could be tempting to VAG in an easy "nothing to lose" way of dipping their toes).

Edited by GhostR, 30 May 2014 - 10:08.

[ballow]

 

 

When does the current Red Bull <-> Renault deal end? If it's through to the end of, say, 2015 I could see Red Bull going looking at what alternatives might be available for 2016 onwards. Everything from switching from Renault to an existing alternative (most likely Honda given Mercedes will continue to refuse and the Ferrari is equally bad as the Renault compared to the Merc) through to convincing an outsider to join (hence VAG rumours constantly cropping up), through to possibly building their own (or paying all the R&D for someone else to build it for them and then badge it ... which could be tempting to VAG in an easy "nothing to lose" way of dipping their toes).

 

RB have said they are not interested in being just customers. So I cant see RB Honda RB even though they have a common interested in Motor GP. 

[Imateria]

Agreed. It may even be the case that VAG allowed Porsche to go head-to-head against Audi in order to passively put an end to the F1 alternative. But it also means F1 was seriously considered within the Porsche structure. It also implies that the individual manufacturers within the VAG group do have the discretion to make a decision to enter F1 should they decide that's the right path for them, and that the VAG oversight possibly only extends to whether to allow their brands to compete head-to-head against each other.

 

VAG has most recently been saying they have no plans to enter F1. But Porsche during that same time period has admitted it was their second choice behind LMP1. So there may not be plans, but there is at least "consideration" and that's a big step along the way. I think they're tempted, and if the power unit rules go in a direction they like, I think we'll see a VAG brand get involved. But it won't be as early as next year. 

 

When does the current Red Bull <-> Renault deal end? If it's through to the end of, say, 2015 I could see Red Bull going looking at what alternatives might be available for 2016 onwards. Everything from switching from Renault to an existing alternative (most likely Honda given Mercedes will continue to refuse and the Ferrari is equally bad as the Renault compared to the Merc) through to convincing an outsider to join (hence VAG rumours constantly cropping up), through to possibly building their own (or paying all the R&D for someone else to build it for them and then badge it ... which could be tempting to VAG in an easy "nothing to lose" way of dipping their toes).

Yes it was considered, VAG have been keeping an eye on F1 for years but what does it tell you when they think that in house fighting at Le Mans is worth a lot more than competing with Mercedes, Honda, Renault and Ferrari in F1?

 

I stand by what I said earlier, VAG will never be in F1, unless it can massively up it's commercial reach and value which wont happen with a promoter that refuses to promote.

[4MEN]

They are waiting for the next engine era of turbo diesel 1.6 l 4 cylinders ICEs. 

[king_crud]

there's been talk of VW joining F1 since the 90s, won't happen

[ballow]

there's been talk of VW joining F1 since the 90s, won't happen

 

Different regs and the thread is not about owning a team but supply engine. Read the link I posted where their head of motorsport said the cost of running a team is not of interested to them but supply the engine is more attractive. 

[SGWilko]

Please.

 

If they do, they should enter with Lamborghini engines. Seeing as all their cars are named after famous bulls, the connection would fit.

 

Only one name I'd associate with bulls - and it's four letters....

Edited by SGWilko, 30 May 2014 - 14:03.

[Imateria]

Different regs and the thread is not about owning a team but supply engine. Read the link I posted where their head of motorsport said the cost of running a team is not of interested to them but supply the engine is more attractive. 

Read what king_crud posted yourself, "since" the 90's clearly implies continuous talk, which is true as it's pretty much been brought up every year for the last 10+ years, and the only thing that has remained continuous besides the rumors is that VAG has nothing more than a passing interest in F1 and has never been serious about entering the sport. 

[BRG]

I am sure that the boards of Ford, GM, Toyota, Hyundai, Geely, Great Wall, Lada, and every other manufacturer periodically reviews its possible marketing activities, including motor sport.  It doesn;t mean that any of them are about to enter F1.

[KWSN - DSM]

They all look for return on investment, does it make monetary sense to get involved or not.

 

I have heard on and off about VW being on the verge of entering F1 since John Nielsen were winning races in F3 early 1980ies.

 

[LORDBYRON]

VAG have no engine ready to enter f1 at short notice if they were to it would be with skoda or a brand that would sell cars not Bugatti they would have to team up again with cosworh are they are the only other ones ready to go but bare in mind that vag was there backer till f1 changed the rule book and left so why would they return ?

Edited by iii, 30 May 2014 - 23:48.

[A310V6]

If Dr Helmut Marko continues like this they will have to build their own engine.

 

When Red Bull wins it’s because of the car, when they lose it’s the engine.

 

I don’t think many manufactures will be interested to join a team with this attitude.

[spacekid]

Given that there isn't much source material to read I'm probably talking nonsense but - why would Red Bull talking to VW mean VW coming to F1. Why can't it mean Red Bull getting more involved with a different series?

[George Costanza]

They all look for return on investment, does it make monetary sense to get involved or not.

 

I have heard on and off about VW being on the verge of entering F1 since John Nielsen were winning races in F3 early 1980ies.

 

 

Wow, over 30+ years ot talking....

[MikeV1987]

 

 

When Red Bull wins it’s because of the car, when they lose it’s the engine.

 

I don’t think many manufactures will be interested to join a team with this attitude.

 

They are completely right to have that attitude, their power unit is weak compared to Merc.

Edited by MikeV1987, 31 May 2014 - 21:55.