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Lewis Hamilton vs Nico Rosberg 2014 part IV


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#51 garoidb

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 12:55

Wasted by who?

 

It doesn't matter. 



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#52 OO7

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 13:08

It doesn't matter. 

Wasted by Lewis?  No.  Wasted by Mercedes?  Not if Nico wins it.



#53 femi

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 13:12

No, I didn't say no one gave him the stick. I'm saying people discussed it for a couple days (ok, probably a little more) and then it faded out.  Kind of like no one speaks about Button taking out Alonso in Canada 2011, or his crash with Karthikeyan in Malaysia 2012, but people keep bringing up Lewis coming together with Hulkenberg in Brasil, or Monza 2010, or his Canada 2008 crash. Among others.  It just seems people forget or move on way more easily when it's other drivers. Do you know what I mean? 
 
I'm (mostly) with you on the "R" word, I think there are other factors and don't really like seing people use that. But it's hard to understand where it comes from. It sometimes is so puzzling how he is treated differently that I can understand how it can cross people's mind.


Is anyone arguing that Lewis' color isn't playing a major role as to why a lot of people resent him and will seek out the worst possible interpretation of what he says or does? Point out such a person and I will point out to you a liar.

#54 garoidb

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 13:15

Wasted by Lewis?  No.  Wasted by Mercedes?  Not if Nico wins it.

 

My point is that this is a golden opportunity to win another WDC. If it slips away, for any reason, it is a setback in terms of career achievement. It is not certain that Mercedes will have such an advantage again next year (although I'd like to know if there are any expert opinions out there on the possibility of the other teams catching up by 2015).



#55 Gareth

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 13:24

If it slips away, for any reason, it is a setback in terms of career achievement. 

I agree with this completely.

 

IMO a "significant failure" in his career implies a lot more than a significant "setback".  The latter I totally agree with regardless of circumstances, the former I think (as Obi says) depends on the circumstances.



#56 bauss

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 13:31

on to Canada, thinking about it, I'm quite worried about this alternate strategy thing that Merc do.

 

Canada is unique in having a high chance of safety car and being pretty easy to overtake... two DRS zones... 

 

so another Bahrain is potentially on the cards if you get an unfortunately timed safety car (come to think of it, so much has been going for Rosberg this year, DNFs, safety car, yellow flags)

except on this track it will be easier to breeze past if you got the faster tire.



#57 GoldenColt

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 13:34

except on this track it will be easier to breeze past if you got the faster tire.

 

Bahrain wasn't exactly difficult in terms of getting past on the faster tyre.



#58 OO7

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 13:51

My point is that this is a golden opportunity to win another WDC. If it slips away, for any reason, it is a setback in terms of career achievement. It is not certain that Mercedes will have such an advantage again next year (although I'd like to know if there are any expert opinions out there on the possibility of the other teams catching up by 2015).

Sure and he would be disappointed.  But if he takes advantage of the situation as it was presented to him, then there is nothing more he could have done, e.g 2012.  That is life.


Edited by Obi Offiah, 01 June 2014 - 13:54.


#59 RustyRuss

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 13:55

Do you make horror movies?

:lol:



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#60 Lazy

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 14:35

If he gets rammed of the road and has two additional engine failures?  Of course it matters.

Think how much greater Damon's reputation would have been if Schumacher hadn't rammed him off the road and stolen that championship.



#61 bub

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 14:53

Sure and he would be disappointed.  But if he takes advantage of the situation as it was presented to him, then there is nothing more he could have done, e.g 2012.  That is life.

 

Yep. Same with any driver, circumstances must be considered. If they do a good job then it is not a failure, at least not on their part.



#62 Longtimefan

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 14:54

Think how much greater Damon's reputation would have been if Schumacher hadn't rammed him off the road and stolen that championship.


Rammed? I suggest you look again. Also if the FIA hadn't tried to manipulate the points, Schumi would have won the title many races earlier.

But this is off topic, so I'm going to shut up before those nice mods slap my hands ;)

#63 OO7

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 14:57

Think how much greater Damon's reputation would have been if Schumacher hadn't rammed him off the road and stolen that championship.

From a numbers perspective you are correct.  I believe Williams would still have dropped him after 1996 though.



#64 TomNokoe

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 15:49

To stop it from going to Abu Dhabi, Hamilton needs a 50 point advantage (he will have more victories if they tie on count back)

For him to do that, in the final 12 races, assuming they finish 1-2 each race (highly likely it seems), Hamilton needs an 10-2 record. It does seem highly unlikely, but I think these first 6 races could have easily been 5-1 in Hamilton's favour had something just gone right for him.

#65 bub

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 15:54

To stop it from going to Abu Dhabi, Hamilton needs a 50 point advantage (he will have more victories if they tie on count back)

For him to do that, in the final 12 races, assuming they finish 1-2 each race (highly likely it seems), Hamilton needs an 10-2 record. It does seem highly unlikely, but I think these first 6 races could have easily been 5-1 in Hamilton's favour had something just gone right for him.

 

I think there's a decent chance it could have been 6-0 without any bad luck.



#66 TomNokoe

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 15:54

We will give Nico 1 for good luck :-)

#67 OO7

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 15:54

I think there's a decent chance it could have been 6-0 without any bad luck.

I can't disagree with that.



#68 SR388

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 16:00

T-minus 1 week people! I need you all to generate excitement!

 

What's your favorite Hamilton or Nico  memory from Canada?

 

 

For me: 

 

 

Ghost ride the whip!!



#69 TomNokoe

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 16:01

When he overtook Button early on in 2011 and embarrassed him in the wet :smoking:

:(

#70 GoldenColt

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 16:13

T-minus 1 week people! I need you all to generate excitement!

 

What's your favorite Hamilton or Nico  memory from Canada?

 

 

For me: 

 

 

Ghost ride the whip!!

 

Still faster than Rosberg back then...  ;)



#71 garoidb

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 16:24

From a numbers perspective you are correct.  I believe Williams would still have dropped him after 1996 though.

 

Yes, I think the number of WDCs achieved do contribute to the pecking order, particularly after the passage of time. It is a simple reckoning but very powerful.

 

As I have often said before, I think you get a better picture in what is still a simple way by counting the number of times someone contended seriously for the WDC (i.e. was in contention at the last round or, if not, came second overall). It is a better reflection of how significant a contender of your particular era you were, and how prominent your part in the story was. Both Lewis and Nico will have that this year, reflecting that they are the story this year.



#72 Riverside

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 16:34

T-minus 1 week people! I need you all to generate excitement!

 

What's your favorite Hamilton or Nico  memory from Canada?

 

 

For me: 

 

Ghost ride the whip!!

 

  Interesting you chose this ,  when stewards allowed his pole while not being able to provide a fuel sample within the delay required.  (He also won that race )   The same situation happened in 2012 and he was sent back to the end of the grid .   But hey , it's not him who puts the fuel in the car is it ......  ??? 



#73 Riverside

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 16:35

Still faster than Rosberg back then...  ;)

 

 

   I would hope so .. comparing the 2010 Mclaren and Mercedes ... I mean .... really ........



#74 OO7

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 16:38

  Interesting you chose this ,  when stewards allowed his pole while not being able to provide a fuel sample within the delay required.  (He also won that race )   The same situation happened in 2012 and he was sent back to the end of the grid .   But hey , it's not him who puts the fuel in the car is it ......  ??? 

My understanding is that the F.I.A added another rule (as they have already done a few times in the past with Lewis) to prevent this eventuality from occurring again.



#75 OO7

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 16:39

Yes, I think the number of WDCs achieved do contribute to the pecking order, particularly after the passage of time. It is a simple reckoning but very powerful.

 

As I have often said before, I think you get a better picture in what is still a simple way by counting the number of times someone contended seriously for the WDC (i.e. was in contention at the last round or, if not, came second overall). It is a better reflection of how significant a contender of your particular era you were, and how prominent your part in the story was. Both Lewis and Nico will have that this year, reflecting that they are the story this year.

This is a fair point. 



#76 Riverside

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 16:54

My understanding is that the F.I.A added another rule (as they have already done a few times in the past with Lewis) to prevent this eventuality from occurring again.

 

   Well , yes ... if everyone is driving a car without sufficient fuel to return to the paddock it could make for an interesting scenario at the end of Q3 ... also

those carrying the correct amount of fuel are at a disadvantage - albeit incredibly thin -  still a disadvantage . 



#77 Riverside

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 17:01

When he overtook Button early on in 2011 and embarrassed him in the wet :smoking:

:(

 

  ?  Montreal 2011 ?  Pardon ?



#78 Kvothe

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 17:04

My understanding is that the F.I.A added another rule (as they have already done a few times in the past with Lewis) to prevent this eventuality from occurring again.

Loophole Lewis :up:



#79 OO7

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 17:06

   Well , yes ... if everyone is driving a car without sufficient fuel to return to the paddock it could make for an interesting scenario at the end of Q3 ... also

those carrying the correct amount of fuel are at a disadvantage - albeit incredibly thin -  still a disadvantage . 

At the time there was nothing stopping the other teams from doing what McLaren did with Lewis.



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#80 OO7

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 17:07

Loophole Lewis :up:

,...........that's his name.  Finding loopholes is his game.



#81 Riverside

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 17:09

At the time there was nothing stopping the other teams from doing what McLaren did with Lewis.

 

 

   That's incorrect .  The rule states that the fuel sample has to be given within  a reasonable delay ...  car stopped  on track does not comply with

that rule   hence the fine  to Mclaren .....  



#82 RubalSher

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 17:12

Lewis wins every alternate race at Canada and he is due this year :smoking:



#83 Riverside

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 17:15

Lewis wins every alternate race at Canada and he is due this year :smoking:

 

 

  I think it's his best track ... if Rosberg wins it will be a miracle.



#84 P123

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 17:17

I think it's his best track ... if Rosberg wins it will be a miracle.


Last year was the first time in his F1 career that Rosberg was outqualified by a teammate around Montreal. Even accounting for Schumacher being a few tenths shy of his best that is still fairly impressive, especially given that Schumacher is the most successful driver around there.

#85 Coral

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 17:30

Lewis winning in Montreal in 2012 was a particular highlight for me, especially when he lapped Jenson Button, that was a classic. And then passing Vettel and Alonso. Quality stuff. I recorded that race and I still watch it regularly :)

 

I really think Lewis will bounce back next weekend...he loves Canada...and I forgot about the "alternate race" thing! I hope so, because this has been a pretty difficult week to be a Lewis fan.



#86 RubalSher

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 17:36

  I think it's his best track ... if Rosberg wins it will be a miracle.

 

Yup Hungary and Canada are his best tracks.



#87 RubalSher

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 17:38

Last year was the first time in his F1 career that Rosberg was outqualified by a teammate around Montreal. Even accounting for Schumacher being a few tenths shy of his best that is still fairly impressive, especially given that Schumacher is the most successful driver around there.

 

Lewis left Rosberg in the dust last year at this track, he just did not out-qualify him.



#88 Riverside

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 17:42

Lewis left Rosberg in the dust last year at this track, he just did not out-qualify him.

 

  2013 is not a yardstick to evaluate Nico/ Lewis  at Montreal  - it was a pretty off weekend for him  not an excuse ,  just a fact.


Edited by Riverside, 01 June 2014 - 17:43.


#89 garagetinkerer

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 17:44

My understanding is that the F.I.A added another rule (as they have already done a few times in the past with Lewis) to prevent this eventuality from occurring again.

It is not like a certain four times WDC wasn't punished for the same infringement...



#90 OO7

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 18:03

It is not like a certain four times WDC wasn't punished for the same infringement...

That was after the rules were updated if I recall correctly.



#91 garagetinkerer

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 18:13

That was after the rules were updated if I recall correctly.

Yes... and so was Hamilton. Would you agree that was fair?



#92 OO7

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 18:19

Yes... and so was Hamilton. Would you agree that was fair?

The initial discussion was of Lewis and McLaren in Canada 2010.  There were no firm rules in place at the time.  Lewis was later penalised in 2012 for being under fuelled as was Vettel (2012?).  The 2012 punishments were fair. 



#93 garagetinkerer

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 18:30

The initial discussion was of Lewis and McLaren in Canada 2010.  There were no firm rules in place at the time.  Lewis was later penalised in 2012 for being under fuelled as was Vettel (2012?).  The 2012 punishments were fair. 

There was a rule about samples, but there was no punishment for not giving one at the time. The rule was further strengthened with penalty and rightly so, as it was getting a bit ridiculous.



#94 sennafan24

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 18:42

I find it disturbing that Lewis's ethnicity even comes up at all. I honestly never consider his ethnicity, or Nico's for that matter. Maybe I live too much in a liberal progressive world, but ethnicity is not really something I consider when I am watching sport.



#95 OO7

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 18:45

As i said earlier... there are jokes a plenty about Tiger Woods, but nobody suggests that race has anything to do with it... Same with R Kelley and some of the jokes after his incident (i very much enjoyed the digs at him by Dave Chappelle :D).

I watched that a couple of months back and was in stitches. :lol:



#96 TomNokoe

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 18:46

Lewis may have beaten Nico comfortably last year, but the teams decision to keep Nico on super softs at the first stop was a terrible decision.

Edited by TomNokoe, 01 June 2014 - 18:46.


#97 garagetinkerer

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 18:52

I watched that a couple of months back and was in stitches. :lol:

Haters gonna hate,

Lovers gonna love,

I don't even want

none of the above...

i want to p*** on you... :rotfl:

 

On top of it there was a "p*** on you, remix" :rotfl:

 

I watch that series once every 3-4 months... One of the best comics of the current generation. Shame that people took it to him for being different.


Edited by garagetinkerer, 01 June 2014 - 18:58.


#98 RubalSher

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 18:54

Lewis may have beaten Nico comfortably last year, but the teams decision to keep Nico on super softs at the first stop was a terrible decision.

 

Agreed but Nico would have ended comfortably behind Lewis regardless.



#99 jestaudio

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 18:55

Is anyone arguing that Lewis' color isn't playing a major role as to why a lot of people resent him and will seek out the worst possible interpretation of what he says or does? Point out such a person and I will point out to you a liar.

Its a unfortunate fact of life that there is a small minority that will use someone's race or social background as a means of belittling or insulting another person, its not acceptable under any circumstances but it happens all to often. The chances are there are some even on this forum that may and i say may have such opinions, it says more about them than the person its directed at, the sad fact is that Hamilton has been the subject of racial abuse from so called F1 fans, it happens, should we accept it, never, should we ignore it, no, has anyone been openly racist on this forum, not to my knowledge.  



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#100 Nemo1965

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 18:57

I watched that a couple of months back and was in stitches. :lol:

 

There is also a nice parody in Tropic Thunder, where 'Alpa Chino' (played by Brandon T. Jackson) can be heard having a phone-conversation: 'Hell, no, I didn't pee on that girl. No, I didn't pee on her, listen, listen, listen, listen. No, no. The story is this. She was in the way when I was peeing, she walked past.'


Edited by Nemo1965, 01 June 2014 - 19:10.