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Lewis Hamilton vs Nico Rosberg 2014 part IV


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#101 jestaudio

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 18:58

I find it disturbing that Lewis's ethnicity even comes up at all. I honestly never consider his ethnicity, or Nico's for that matter. Maybe I live too much in a liberal progressive world, but ethnicity is not really something I consider when I am watching sport.

Happens all to often in sport, look at football, despite major campaigns racist abuse from certain groups of fans is a fact of life, 



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#102 cornermarker

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 19:10

Looking at the upcoming races, I think we could be in for another lean stretch for Rosberg.  I'm curious to see who finds speed around Austria first.  I think Lewis has the advantage in that regard, but with them sharing telemetry, his advantage would be negated quite a bit. 



#103 Nemo1965

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 19:21

Its a unfortunate fact of life that there is a small minority that will use someone's race or social background as a means of belittling or insulting another person, its not acceptable under any circumstances but it happens all to often. The chances are there are some even on this forum that may and i say may have such opinions, it says more about them than the person its directed at, the sad fact is that Hamilton has been the subject of racial abuse from so called F1 fans, it happens, should we accept it, never, should we ignore it, no, has anyone been openly racist on this forum, not to my knowledge.  

 

I can't look into the hearts of minds of the few people who have unfair criticism of Lewis, but to state that on this board and in F1 in general any hostile treatment of Lewis is primarily fueled by racism (as the post you reacted to stated) is not supported by any facts. Lewis gets more flak more than other F1 drivers, I grant you that, but he gets also more attention in general, so it is not clear if the percentage of positive press vs negative press is so skewed as many of his fans perceive, or that we just see a lot of it because of the massive press coverage that Lewis gets.

 

Meanwhile, I repeat what I've said in the last thread: concrete evidence of racism and discrimination in motorsport, at least by the participants (drivers, engineers, race organisers, teamowners) has not been shown in any way. If there is, and I am totally mistaken, then we should start a new thread in which we discuss that. In a thread like these, a driver vs driver-thread pulling the racism-trumpcard is annoying, muddies the discussion and forces posters to prove their non-racist character by not openly criticising Lewis or thinking twice about posting something that could be perceived as a slight regarding the colour of his skin.



#104 jestaudio

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 19:29

I can't look into the hearts of minds of the few people who have unfair criticism of Lewis, but to state that on this board and in F1 in general any hostile treatment of Lewis is primarily fueled by racism (as the post you reacted to stated) is not supported by any facts. Lewis gets more flak more than other F1 drivers, I grant you that, but he gets also more attention in general, so it is not clear if the percentage of positive press vs negative press is so skewed as many of his fans perceive, or that we just see a lot of it because of the massive press coverage that Lewis gets.

 

Meanwhile, I repeat what I've said in the last thread: concrete evidence of racism and discrimination in motorsport, at least by the participants (drivers, engineers, race organisers, teamowners) has not been shown in any way. If there is, and I am totally mistaken, then we should start a new thread in which we discuss that. In a thread like these, a driver vs driver-thread pulling the racism-trumpcard is annoying, muddies the discussion and forces posters to prove their non-racist character by not openly criticising Lewis or thinking twice about posting something that could be perceived as a slight regarding the colour of his skin.

And i have tried to put a reasonable and balanced view point over, obviously a total waste of time



#105 Nemo1965

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 19:35

And i have tried to put a reasonable and balanced view point over, obviously a total waste of time

 

No, it was an reasonable and balanced post and you did not waste your time. I just reacted to your nuance by adding some more...



#106 Obi Offiah

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 20:00

There is also a nice parody in Tropic Thunder, where 'Alpa Chino' (played by Brandon T. Jackson) can be heard having a phone-conversation: 'Hell, no, I didn't pee on that girl. No, I didn't pee on her, listen, listen, listen, listen. No, no. The story is this. She was in the way when I was peeing, she walked past.'

:lol: I saw that a few years back but I can't remember that line.

 

Recently I've been watching a bit of Seinfeld.


Edited by Obi Offiah, 01 June 2014 - 20:59.


#107 Obi Offiah

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 20:01

Looking at the upcoming races, I think we could be in for another lean stretch for Rosberg.  I'm curious to see who finds speed around Austria first.  I think Lewis has the advantage in that regard, but with them sharing telemetry, his advantage would be negated quite a bit. 

On the face of it Austria looks similar to Bahrain.



#108 cornermarker

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 20:17

On the face of it Austria looks similar to Bahrain.

True.  It kind of looks like Bahrain with more elevation changes, so maybe a combination of Bahrain and Hungary.



#109 Gareth

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 20:46

   Well , yes ... if everyone is driving a car without sufficient fuel to return to the paddock it could make for an interesting scenario at the end of Q3 ... also

those carrying the correct amount of fuel are at a disadvantage - albeit incredibly thin -  still a disadvantage . 

Absolutely, they were right to close the loophole.

 

At the same time, you'd have to have a heart of stone to not think him pushing the car back, with the crowd going wild, wasn't a pretty cool moment in F1.



#110 Obi Offiah

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 21:02

True.  It kind of looks like Bahrain with more elevation changes, so maybe a combination of Bahrain and Hungary.

It thingk it also has a bit more flow to it, less corners which are overall slightly faster.  I'm assuming they'll be racing on the A1-Ring format as in the past?


Edited by Obi Offiah, 01 June 2014 - 21:34.


#111 garagetinkerer

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 21:16

Absolutely, they were right to close the loophole.

 

At the same time, you'd have to have a heart of stone to not think him pushing the car back, with the crowd going wild, wasn't a pretty cool moment in F1.

It was a great spectacle, wasn't it!

 

Then again, it wasn't the first car that stopped on the track that year. The rule was already in place about samples (there was no penalty though at the time), but people were abusing the leeway. It had to be done.


Edited by garagetinkerer, 01 June 2014 - 21:17.


#112 jstrains

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 21:32

http://nonf1.com/201...each_other.html

The original here, recommend to be translated
http://m.bild.de/spo...bildMobile.html

Edited by jstrains, 01 June 2014 - 21:34.


#113 cornermarker

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 21:34

It thing it also has a bit more flow to it, less corners which are overall slightly faster.  I'm assuming they'll be racing on the A1-Ring format as in the past?

 

Per formula1.com

 

EiFWtL0.jpg

 

I'd prefer the older layout myself.  This, like Bahrain, feels so uninspired. 



#114 Obi Offiah

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 21:36

It was a great spectacle, wasn't it!

 

Then again, it wasn't the first car that stopped on the track that year. The rule was already in place about samples (there was no penalty though at the time), but people were abusing the leeway. It had to be done.

Didn't he stop so that the team would be able to supply enough of a sample?



#115 sopa

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 21:38

Based on how the discussion about "circuit strengths" goes, do we expect Hamilton to open up a points gap in races up and including Hungary? If Rosberg doesn't have issues and always manages second, he wouldn't drop too far behind the championship?

 

But after that do we expect Rosberg to have a fightback? Historically Hamilton has at lest one bad race somewhere in the beginning of last third of the season. 2010 Monza weekend he was slower than Button. In 2011 his season derailed from Hungarian GP wet race onwards. 2012 Belgium weekend was a struggle. In 2013 Hamilton had a bad weekend at Monza again.

 

So if Rosberg remains within reach of a gap of a race win (~25 pts) approximately before the Belgian Grand Prix, he has a fighting chance. Not all is over for Nico, even if he gets beaten in the next few races.



#116 jestaudio

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 21:40

Based on how the discussion about "circuit strengths" goes, do we expect Hamilton to open up a points gap in races up and including Hungary? If Rosberg doesn't have issues and always manages second, he wouldn't drop too far behind the championship?

 

But after that do we expect Rosberg to have a fightback? Historically Hamilton has at lest one bad race somewhere in the beginning of last third of the season. 2010 Monza weekend he was slower than Button. In 2011 his season derailed from Hungarian GP wet race onwards. 2012 Belgium weekend was a struggle. In 2013 Hamilton had a bad weekend at Monza again.

 

So if Rosberg remains within reach of a gap of a race win (~25 pts) approximately before the Belgian Grand Prix, he has a fighting chance. Not all is over for Nico, even if he gets beaten in the next few races.

Sooner or later Nico will get a DNF, self inflicted or purely a mechanical failure who knows but based on the last few years sooner or later a drivers luck will bite him in the ass



#117 cornermarker

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 21:55

Nico's problem is that it seems all too likely (based on current form) that Lewis will be able to build a lead of 14 pts or more by the final race.  That 25pt lead after Australia seems a distant memory by now. Lewis will undoubtedly have more wins at that point, and at Abu Dhabi, whether he got pole or not, Lewis would need to do no more than calmly cruise to 2nd well ahead of the rest of the pack, securing the championship.

 

Nico is in a tough spot.



#118 RonnyRonny

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 21:59

Part IV! This is like some starwars epic!?

#119 jestaudio

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 22:00

Nico's problem is that it seems all too likely (based on current form) that Lewis will be able to build a lead of 14 pts or more by the final race.  That 25pt lead after Australia seems a distant memory by now. Lewis will undoubtedly have more wins at that point, and at Abu Dhabi, whether he got pole or not, Lewis would need to do no more than calmly cruise to 2nd well ahead of the rest of the pack, securing the championship.

 

Nico is in a tough spot.

Taking aside the "controversy" although i believe Hamilton is the better driver overall Nico is no slouch, as a proud english bloke i would be more than happy to see Hamilton take a championship but one can never discount Nico, he is as close to Hamilton as any other driver i have seen.Maybe not absolute top draw but damn good all the same



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#120 jestaudio

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 22:01

Part IV! This is like some starwars epic!?

At least we don't have to wait for creaking old folk to come out of retirement for the next installment 



#121 garagetinkerer

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 22:12

Didn't he stop so that the team would be able to supply enough of a sample?

Yes! He had to stop on the track... but he was able to provide a sample unit as required. As i said, that wasn't the first car that year to stop and a fair few incidents occoured that year prior to the incident ... but iirc that was the first car to win a pole like that. I could be wrong on this one though... be gentle! :p



#122 cornermarker

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 22:14

Taking aside the "controversy" although i believe Hamilton is the better driver overall Nico is no slouch, as a proud english bloke i would be more than happy to see Hamilton take a championship but one can never discount Nico, he is as close to Hamilton as any other driver i have seen.Maybe not absolute top draw but damn good all the same

 

 

I agree.  I've long held Rosberg in pretty high regard, and he's proving to be an even better driver than I thought he was.  But looking at that stretch of 4 wins from Lewis, and how at times it seemed that Nico had strategy and tires on his side, it's apparent that lewis is able to produce that something extra.  I don't think that string of wins was a fluke, I think it being broken in Monaco was the exception.  And they won't be visiting Monaco again this season.  I think there's a good chance that we'll see a couple more long strings of Hamilton wins like that, with Nico putting up a good fight in each and every one, and occasionally coming out on top.  But I fully expect that by Abu Dhabi, Lewis will have those 14 points in hand.


Edited by cornermarker, 01 June 2014 - 22:17.


#123 1Devil1

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 22:32

 

This translation is just shit  But good the original one is only in german, this interview would not be good for the crowd here

 

 

DINO CHIESA former team boss karting: 

  • Nico the hard worker the guy who searches for the perfect setup, to reach Lewis speed
  • Lewis the faster driver over one lap
  • Nico pushing the car development and setup work what benefits Lewis
  • Lewis behaved (last week) like an angry little italian fellow :rotfl:  . He always thinks it's not his fault.
  • He thinks because of the longer relationship between Mercedes and Rosberg, it's harder for Lewis, to establish himself there and Lewis, is reasonable, more suspicious 
  • they shared over hundred day a year the room when they were karting, fights and clashes were normal, like kids do
  • both always challenge each other in every discipline, pizza eating, wrestling, they wanted always win the competition against each other
  • he has contact with Rosberg regularly, but with Lewis not anymore, because Lewis is more into the star businesses, you can't reach him, his management is not good for him

Edited by 1Devil1, 01 June 2014 - 22:48.


#124 Kingshark

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 23:16

Sooner or later Nico will get a DNF, self inflicted or purely a mechanical failure who knows but based on the last few years sooner or later a drivers luck will bite him in the ass

 

This is known as the gambler's fallacy; just because Hamilton has one DNF and Rosberg has none does not mean that Nico is now more probable to have the next DNF.

 

Hamilton will be good around Canada, Silverstone and Hungary no doubt. However in Spa, Monza, and Singapore I expect Rosberg to make a fight-back.


Edited by Kingshark, 02 June 2014 - 01:46.


#125 garoidb

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 23:29

This is known as the gambler's fallacy; just because Hamilton has one DNF and Rosberg has not does not mean that Nico is now more probable to have the next DNF.

 

 

This is correct. 



#126 Riverside

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 01:40

Absolutely, they were right to close the loophole.

 

At the same time, you'd have to have a heart of stone to not think him pushing the car back, with the crowd going wild, wasn't a pretty cool moment in F1.

 

 Most definitely -  I was there.  :-)   



#127 SR388

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 02:04

At this point in the season, have we experienced a Hamilton season that was more intriguing?

I don't think we saw this coming in 07. In 09 he was chopped liver. In 2011 the car had issues. I think this has to be more tense than 08 right? In 08 we knew that his only defense was coming from outside the team. This year it feels like defense is coming from within the team. That's a very tense feeling. IMO.

Such excitement.

Edited by SR388, 02 June 2014 - 02:04.


#128 pokerkid

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 02:47

Its interesting that Hamilton and many others believe Rosberg had been faster at Bahrain and Spain when its really not true. If bahrain had played out without the sc, Lewis would have comfortably won, and in Spain, when both opposite strategies had played out they were basically dead even by the last lap, with Rosberg barely getting into the DRS on the last lap. So at best even in race pace but I have seen no advantage for Rosberg.



#129 garagetinkerer

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 02:57

At this point in the season, have we experienced a Hamilton season that was more intriguing?

I don't think we saw this coming in 07. In 09 he was chopped liver. In 2011 the car had issues. I think this has to be more tense than 08 right? In 08 we knew that his only defense was coming from outside the team. This year it feels like defense is coming from within the team. That's a very tense feeling. IMO.

Such excitement.

Cough, choke, cough... don't do that man... dinner time. :p You mean 2012... A small mistake to make, but a bit of a surprise there :p



#130 garagetinkerer

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 03:06

Its interesting that Hamilton and many others believe Rosberg had been faster at Bahrain and Spain when its really not true. If bahrain had played out without the sc, Lewis would have comfortably won, and in Spain, when both opposite strategies had played out they were basically dead even by the last lap, with Rosberg barely getting into the DRS on the last lap. So at best even in race pace but I have seen no advantage for Rosberg.

If you really want to go into the that much detail, then at Bahrain, both were using the engine mode which was subsequently asked by the team to not be used... By the by, there has been no confirmation by team that the specific engine mode was disallowed prior to and during GP at Bahrain. I believe what i read was, the team requested that it not be used post that race. At Spain only one driver was using the restricted engine mode AFAIK. I could be wrong... do feel free to correct me.

 

note; I recently learned that Rosberg's 5kg heavier than Hamilton, so that must affect the ballast, set-up and fuelled weight of the car and so on and on. With this, i find it quite impressive that he is able to live with Hamilton more often than not. I mean all things being equal, Hamilton could simply fuel heavier and with that, Rosberg's results are nothing to sneeze at. Again, i could be wrong on this one, but i doubt that Mercedes will weigh Hamilton's car down with anything other than fuel... If that were the case, we would have surely heard about it.


Edited by garagetinkerer, 02 June 2014 - 03:07.


#131 hollowstar

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 03:36

If you really want to go into the that much detail, then at Bahrain, both were using the engine mode which was subsequently asked by the team to not be used... By the by, there has been no confirmation by team that the specific engine mode was disallowed prior to and during GP at Bahrain. I believe what i read was, the team requested that it not be used post that race. At Spain only one driver was using the restricted engine mode AFAIK. I could be wrong... do feel free to correct me.

 

note; I recently learned that Rosberg's 5kg heavier than Hamilton, so that must affect the ballast, set-up and fuelled weight of the car and so on and on. With this, i find it quite impressive that he is able to live with Hamilton more often than not. I mean all things being equal, Hamilton could simply fuel heavier and with that, Rosberg's results are nothing to sneeze at. Again, i could be wrong on this one, but i doubt that Mercedes will weigh Hamilton's car down with anything other than fuel... If that were the case, we would have surely heard about it.

 

The "more often than not" remains to be seen...   Malaysia, China, and Bahrein (without the safety car), Lewis was quite far ahead.   So 3 out of 5 (and I'm quite generous to include Monaco, as whether cheating or a mistake, it was not a fair qualy), Lewis built quite a comfortable margin over Nico.  Way too early to conclude anything, and if we had to, it would be that  "more often than not", Lewis pulled away. Time will tell. 



#132 Kingshark

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 03:51

The "more often than not" remains to be seen...   Malaysia, China, and Bahrein (without the safety car)

 

Nonsense, Nico was easily as fast as Lewis in Bahrain, probably a few tenths faster overall.

 

Let's look at the facts;

 

1. Rosberg out-qualified Hamilton by 0.279 seconds on Saturday. Hamilton got the better start and leapfrogged Rosberg.

2. Rosberg consistently stuck within 1.5 seconds of Hamilton for the first 15 laps or so.

3. Hamilton's tyres went off before Rosberg's, and they had a great tussle for the lead which Lewis won.

4. Lewis had to push his tyres harder to maintain the same pace as Nico. This would imply that Lewis had less pace overall.

5. Hamilton was given a 6.0 second undercut by pitting several laps before Rosberg. Lewis went on the option tyres, Nico on the primes.

6. The gap increased from 6.0 to 10.0 seconds in the next 20 laps (from lap 21 to lap 40).

7. This means that Rosberg was only losing an average of 0.20 seconds/lap on the prime tyres, which are typically significantly slower.

8. When the safety car came out, Rosberg was right on Hamilton's gearbox with the better tyre, and Lewis well well to defend the win.

 

What conclusions can we take from that?

 

1. Did Lewis have a better start than Nico in Bahrain? Yes

2. Did Lewis have better wheel-to-wheel race craft than Nico in Bahrain? Yes.

3. Did Lewis have more raw pace than Nico in Bahrain? No chance.

 

Even Hamilton himself said that Rosberg was faster in Sakhir. No doubt Lewis deserved the win, he out-drove Nico fair and square, but to deny that Nico had the pace to live with Lewis in Bahrain is beyond laughable.

 

If anything, we should be questioning if Lewis would have had the pace to keep up with Nico in Bahrain if Nico reached Turn 1 first.


Edited by Kingshark, 02 June 2014 - 03:57.


#133 garagetinkerer

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 03:51

The "more often than not" remains to be seen...   Malaysia, China, and Bahrein (without the safety car), Lewis was quite far ahead.   So 3 out of 5 (and I'm quite generous to include Monaco, as whether cheating or a mistake, it was not a fair qualy), Lewis built quite a comfortable margin over Nico.  Way too early to conclude anything, and if we had to, it would be that  "more often than not", Lewis pulled away. Time will tell. 

Don't get me wrong... i'm very impressed with the job Hamilton is doing in the car... but i'm also impressed with what Rosberg is doing, and for the above mentioned reasons. Personally speaking, and i know some will disagree with this, in my opinion who ever wins the WDC, it would be fair to say that he earned it, Unless one too many retirements take place for either of them. I guess then you could hardly call it a fair fight... no?



#134 Spoch

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 04:32

Hamilton: I have cleared the air with Nico
Spoch interprets: The team has clearly seen that Nico deliberately parked it so have decided that he will have no shot at the WDC

True or False?

#135 garagetinkerer

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 04:47

Hamilton: I have cleared the air with Nico
Spoch interprets: The team has clearly seen that Nico deliberately parked it so have decided that he will have no shot at the WDC

True or False?

You sir, are way too involved to be spoch :p



#136 TomNokoe

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 04:57

Hamilton: I have cleared the air with Nico
Spoch interprets: The team has clearly seen that Nico deliberately parked it so have decided that he will have no shot at the WDC

True or False?


False as a m'fker!

#137 bauss

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 05:57

If you really want to go into the that much detail, then at Bahrain, both were using the engine mode which was subsequently asked by the team to not be used... By the by, there has been no confirmation by team that the specific engine mode was disallowed prior to and during GP at Bahrain. I believe what i read was, the team requested that it not be used post that race. At Spain only one driver was using the restricted engine mode AFAIK. I could be wrong... do feel free to correct me.

 

note; I recently learned that Rosberg's 5kg heavier than Hamilton, so that must affect the ballast, set-up and fuelled weight of the car and so on and on. With this, i find it quite impressive that he is able to live with Hamilton more often than not. I mean all things being equal, Hamilton could simply fuel heavier and with that, Rosberg's results are nothing to sneeze at. Again, i could be wrong on this one, but i doubt that Mercedes will weigh Hamilton's car down with anything other than fuel... If that were the case, we would have surely heard about it.

 

where is the quote that LH is 5kg lighter? that sounds hard to believe... he may be lighter but can't be by that much, except Nico is packing serious pounds somewhere which means he hasn't done his homework well, they are practically same height. 

 

Bahrain pace analysis has been done to death. Truth is they were very close, but truth is also without safety car Nico would have barely challenged.... 

 

The alternate strategy thing remains a slight worry of mine because of safety cars in the 2nd pitstop window...

 

But I still suspect, we are not seeing how the rest of the season will play out yet pace wise. Both guys are still getting a total feel for the set up of the car from race to race, Nico may have enjoyed the benefits of much more testing mileage in both pre-season n in-season testing so far.

 

In any case, LH can neutralize any danger of the alternate strategy by doing a good 1st stint and showing superior race pace (which he didnt do in Bahrain/Spain)... create a gap of 5 seconds or so, then you can allow Nico to pit first and then mirror his strategy.


Edited by bauss, 02 June 2014 - 05:57.


#138 as65p

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 07:17

 

This translation is just shit  But good the original one is only in german, this interview would not be good for the crowd here

 

 

DINO CHIESA former team boss karting: 

  • Nico the hard worker the guy who searches for the perfect setup, to reach Lewis speed
  • Lewis the faster driver over one lap
  • Nico pushing the car development and setup work what benefits Lewis
  • Lewis behaved (last week) like an angry little italian fellow :rotfl:  . He always thinks it's not his fault.
  • He thinks because of the longer relationship between Mercedes and Rosberg, it's harder for Lewis, to establish himself there and Lewis, is reasonable, more suspicious 
  • they shared over hundred day a year the room when they were karting, fights and clashes were normal, like kids do
  • both always challenge each other in every discipline, pizza eating, wrestling, they wanted always win the competition against each other
  • he has contact with Rosberg regularly, but with Lewis not anymore, because Lewis is more into the star businesses, you can't reach him, his management is not good for him

 

You forgot to include the statement how Rosberg was held very short, particularily on cash, by his dad and how Hamilton always appeared to have more money at his disposable.

 

So much for the rich vs. poor storyline...



#139 femi

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 08:05

I can't look into the hearts of minds of the few people who have unfair criticism of Lewis, but to state that on this board and in F1 in general any hostile treatment of Lewis is primarily fueled by racism (as the post you reacted to stated) is not supported by any facts. Lewis gets more flak more than other F1 drivers, I grant you that, but he gets also more attention in general, so it is not clear if the percentage of positive press vs negative press is so skewed as many of his fans perceive, or that we just see a lot of it because of the massive press coverage that Lewis gets.
 
Meanwhile, I repeat what I've said in the last thread: concrete evidence of racism and discrimination in motorsport, at least by the participants (drivers, engineers, race organisers, teamowners) has not been shown in any way. If there is, and I am totally mistaken, then we should start a new thread in which we discuss that. In a thread like these, a driver vs driver-thread pulling the racism-trumpcard is annoying, muddies the discussion and forces posters to prove their non-racist character by not openly criticising Lewis or thinking twice about posting something that could be perceived as a slight regarding the colour of his skin.


You must have imagined anyone said or wrote that which in turn drove you to be over defensive. What is important is for people to examine - if they choose to - their underlying motives for the criticisms.

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#140 garoidb

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 08:17

You must have imagined anyone said or wrote that which in turn drove you to be over defensive. What is important is for people to examine - if they choose to - their underlying motives for the criticisms.

 

No, that is the meaning of what you wrote. 



#141 bonjon1979a

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 08:32

This is known as the gambler's fallacy; just because Hamilton has one DNF and Rosberg has none does not mean that Nico is now more probable to have the next DNF.

 

Hamilton will be good around Canada, Silverstone and Hungary no doubt. However in Spa, Monza, and Singapore I expect Rosberg to make a fight-back.

 

True in one sense. However, Lewis has done a whole race distance less than Rosberg on his engines so from a technical stand point you would say that Lewis has more life in his engines and thus is marginally better off than NIco. However, you can get maldanardo'd at the first corner and it's over for you. Could happen to anyone!



#142 CHIUNDA

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 08:49

True in one sense. However, Lewis has done a whole race distance less than Rosberg on his engines so from a technical stand point you would say that Lewis has more life in his engines and thus is marginally better off than NIco. However, you can get maldanardo'd at the first corner and it's over for you. Could happen to anyone!


Maldonado? on a Mercedes? First corner? Not 2014

#143 Bartonz20let

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 08:58

 

This translation is just shit  But good the original one is only in german, this interview would not be good for the crowd here

 

 

DINO CHIESA former team boss karting: 

  • Nico the hard worker the guy who searches for the perfect setup, to reach Lewis speed
  • Lewis the faster driver over one lap
  • Nico pushing the car development and setup work what benefits Lewis
  • Lewis behaved (last week) like an angry little italian fellow :rotfl:  . He always thinks it's not his fault.
  • He thinks because of the longer relationship between Mercedes and Rosberg, it's harder for Lewis, to establish himself there and Lewis, is reasonable, more suspicious 
  • they shared over hundred day a year the room when they were karting, fights and clashes were normal, like kids do
  • both always challenge each other in every discipline, pizza eating, wrestling, they wanted always win the competition against each other
  • he has contact with Rosberg regularly, but with Lewis not anymore, because Lewis is more into the star businesses, you can't reach him, his management is not good for him

 

 

So, these are the opinions of another person who doesn't actually know Lewis (at this point in his life) , how very insightful :rolleyes:  


Edited by Bartonz20let, 02 June 2014 - 08:58.


#144 kenkip

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 08:58

You forgot to include the statement how Rosberg was held very short, particularily on cash, by his dad and how Hamilton always appeared to have more money at his disposable.

 

So much for the rich vs. poor storyline...

Like he was cut off?



#145 bauss

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 08:59

Maldonado? on a Mercedes? First corner? Not 2014

 

gearbox penalties, sht like that can happen.



#146 1Devil1

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 09:08

So, these are the opinions of another person who doesn't actually know Lewis (at this point in his life) , how very insightful :rolleyes:  

 

Of course you don't like it, because it frames Lewis in a negative light, regarding his characters traits again. Then Ron Dennis shouldn't be allowed to talk about Lewis past because he has no real contact to Lewis today? Chiesa is talking about the past, and the working relation to Lewis and Nico, of course his views are insightful, because it's add another perspective to the fight today. 



#147 Bartonz20let

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 09:25

Of course you don't like it, because it frames Lewis in a negative light, regarding his characters traits again. Then Ron Dennis shouldn't be allowed to talk about Lewis past because he has no real contact to Lewis today? Chiesa is talking about the past, and the working relation to Lewis and Nico, of course his views are insightful, because it's add another perspective to the fight today. 

 

I don't mind his comments, in all honesty, I don't really care, everyone wants to talk about Lewis.

 

All I would say is, you ask the boss of my first job (12 years ago) how I responded or what my attitude was like I doubt you'd get a fair reflection on my personality or work ethic today, and lets be honest, if the translation you have given is correct, then considering he admits he has no contact now some points are an embellishment;

 

  • Nico pushing the car development and setup work what benefits Lewis - Yet, Nico is using Lewis's telemetry? Lewis has been working on Nico's starts??
  • he has contact with Rosberg regularly, but with Lewis not anymore, because Lewis is more into the star businesses, you can't reach him, his management is not good for him - Perhaps Lewis just doesn't like him? How does he know how is management team affects him if he has no contact??

 

I just don't think his opinion is particularly valid, no more so than anyone else's that doesn't know him.



#148 femi

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 09:27

No, that is the meaning of what you wrote.


I did not write any criticism  and still don't see how you guys derived that.

 

EDIT:

 

At work and have series of meetings so if I don't respond...


Edited by femi, 02 June 2014 - 09:28.


#149 1Devil1

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 09:47

I don't mind his comments, in all honesty, I don't really care, everyone wants to talk about Lewis.

 

All I would say is, you ask the boss of my first job (12 years ago) how I responded or what my attitude was like I doubt you'd get a fair reflection on my personality or work ethic today, and lets be honest, if the translation you have given is correct, then considering he admits he has no contact now some points are an embellishment;

 

  • 1. Nico pushing the car development and setup work what benefits Lewis - Yet, Nico is using Lewis's telemetry? Lewis has been working on Nico's starts??
  • 2. he has contact with Rosberg regularly, but with Lewis not anymore, because Lewis is more into the star businesses, you can't reach him, his management is not good for him - Perhaps Lewis just doesn't like him? How does he know how is management team affects him if he has no contact??

 

I just don't think his opinion is particularly valid, no more so than anyone else's that doesn't know him.

 

1. his opinion, but you right you can put a big question mark behind it, when he is talking about that kind of things, he talks about the past, if this translate into today is another question, but we have heard it, even before he stated this we have heard from other source that Rosberg is the one who is staying longer in the garage to find the perfect setup,while Lewis relies more on his talent. Isn't that what we have seen in Spain or other races, Lewis has setups woes and Rosberg is able to fight back because he had the better one. What he is saying, perfect adds to what we've heard seen before, without ultimate prove because do we have access to the telemetry, no. 

 

2. Again, how many people critizied Lewis for having this Fuller management, even his dad, did not speak good about it, this claim Lewis went into the world of stars, is not new. Think about the Sutil case too, too many 'friends' of Lewis, left behind to believe,if one person claims something like that, okay, but this is pattern occurs quit often, to put it down with Lewis don't like them.

 

I am not saying what he says is right, but it gives a a good insight from a person who used to know both drivers very well, and watched their development closely, if I want I can talk down every opinion with 'he doesn't know Lewis, I don't care about it'. I thought it was a nice piece - if you have the fight today in mind


Edited by 1Devil1, 02 June 2014 - 09:48.


#150 bauss

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 10:04

I disagree about the management, I'd say its worked out great so far... this year and the last has been the most settled he's been in a while. They helped him negotiate the Merc deal and were no way influential about the decision to go there. His dad (and many other F1 insiders) advised him strongly to stay at Mac. What a terrible decision that would have been.

 

I don't see much of the Fuller dudes around, as far as I can tell, they take care of biness behind close doors and let him get on with racing. 

 

LH not in contact any more with his old team boss is probably more to do with personal reasons than any thing else. Majority of my former bosses I have little/zero contact with. People move on.


Edited by bauss, 02 June 2014 - 10:05.