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Lewis Hamilton vs Nico Rosberg 2014 part IV


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#3301 monolulu

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 15:58

Decent fight back from Lewis today but I must say, I am growing tired and weary of supporting Lewis. When he is good he is brilliant but all too often he disappoints, I genuinely feel disappointed with many of Lewis' races. As silly as it sounds I feel emotionally exhausted being a fan of his.


It is a roller coaster ride but I think he did a good job today after a disaster in quali. The competition is close but I think Lewis is losing the championship rather than Nico winning it. They have both made mistakes under pressure in quali & in races it's just Lewis' s have been more costly. It's not over yet but Lewis will need to overcome his Q3 problems & be at the top of his game for the rest of the season.

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#3302 meddo

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 16:01

To be fare to him Austria is the only weekend where he did anything really wrong.  Perhaps also Canada he had a part to play. 

In Canada he also overcooked in sector 2. Someone put it nicely yesterday, he doesn¨t just want to win, or to achieve P1, he wants to stamp an authority over Nico. Which is not working very well so far. As long as I like him, he¨ll never reach Alonso's level of maturity. As I said in Kimster vs. Zo topic, give Alonso W05 with no. 6 on it, and he would clean sweep all eight races this season.

But, that¨s the reason this topic is the hottest place on this board, not because of Nico.



#3303 f1fastestlap

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 16:05

In Canada he also overcooked in sector 2. Someone put it nicely yesterday, he doesn¨t just want to win, or to achieve P1, he wants to stamp an authority over Nico. Which is not working very well so far. As long as I like him, he¨ll never reach Alonso's level of maturity. As I said in Kimster vs. Zo topic, give Alonso W05 with no. 6 on it, and he would clean sweep all eight races this season.

But, that¨s the reason this topic is the hottest place on this board, not because of Nico.

 

Cmon, you never liked him... :cool:



#3304 NateF

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 16:05

Fair enough if the first stop was caused by Lewis's own error. As Spacekid said, it is all just motor racing.

 

I said before Austria that 22 points was too big a margin, given my doubts that Lewis can beat Nico consistently enough to catch up. Now it is 29 points, and my faith in Lewis is decreasing every race weekend.

 

Unless Nico DNF's, I think he can manage the gap. 

I am somewhat the opposite, yesterday's qualification (and perhaps Canada) was uncharacteristic of Hamilton in my opinion, his race today, Monaco and mostly Canada, belies the hotheadedness that he has been accused of recently, he raced great today. His problem is that in moments like yesterday he concedes wins/points to his team-mate before they even race, the Mercedes strategy of first come, first served means that no matter how well he drives he will have to settle for second, unless his team-mate has a problem or makes a mistake. Pace wise Rosberg has been great, and he handles his issues with an efficiency that impacts the least amount on his general pace. It will be difficult for Hamilton to overcome this point deficit compared to the potential 25 points lost in Australia, Rosberg is on a high at the moment.



#3305 Riverside

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 16:06

When you think about it, Rosberg has been gifted all 3 wins this season. oz gp, lewis dnf, monaco, lewis's last qual lap blocked, and in austria, amazingly Lewis failed to complete a lap in q3. Just giving it to him on a platter.

 

    Lewis wins = genius     Nico wins = no credit     and so it goes  ......   :drunk:



#3306 seahawk

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 16:07

From 9th to 2nd only beaten by his own pit crew - this race clearly goes to Lewis. It was an outstanding performance.



#3307 f1fastestlap

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 16:08

I am somewhat the opposite, yesterday's qualification (and perhaps Canada) was uncharacteristic of Hamilton in my opinion, his race today, Monaco and mostly Canada, belies the hotheadedness that he has been accused of recently, he raced great today. His problem is that in moments like yesterday he concedes wins/points to his team-mate before they even race, the Mercedes strategy of first come, first served means that no matter how well he drives he will have to settle for second, unless his team-mate has a problem or makes a mistake. Pace wise Rosberg has been great, and he handles his issues with an efficiency that impacts the least amount on his general pace. It will be difficult for Hamilton to overcome this point deficit compared to the potential 25 points lost in Australia, Rosberg is on a high at the moment.

 

Rosberg has shown on the past 2 races that he cracks under pressure and starts to make mistakes so he's not so high like you want us to believe...



#3308 TomNokoe

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 16:14

Lewis natural feel on show on the first lap. Cold tyres but simply scythed through the field. Honestly at that point I thought there was no stopping him.

#3309 RubalSher

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 16:15

Rosberg can have a few bad races or misfortune, so this is far from over.



#3310 Heisenberg

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 16:17

The ones of you who believe in these conspiracy pitstops must be kidding right? Even if the mechanics would sabotage Lewis (which is totally ridiculous to think!), if they would try to be slower, the differences would be much bigger! I doubt they can control such small margins, which of course may be deciding in a sport like F1, but they are only humans. And need I remind you that Lewis won 4 races thus far with Nico coming second and no one in the team sabotaged Hamilton.



#3311 thesham01

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 16:20

    Lewis wins = genius     Nico wins = no credit     and so it goes  ......   :drunk:

 

Rather than comment on the poster, why don't you comment on the Australian, Canadian and Monaco GPs? Let's here how Rosberg *won* those. 



#3312 Clatter

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 16:20

The ones of you who believe in these conspiracy pitstops must be kidding right? Even if the mechanics would sabotage Lewis (which is totally ridiculous to think!), if they would try to be slower, the differences would be much bigger! I doubt they can control such small margins, which of course may be deciding in a sport like F1, but they are only humans. And need I remind you that Lewis won 4 races thus far with Nico coming second and no one in the team sabotaged Hamilton.

Funny how no one has commented on Lewis getting the potential advantage of pitting first at the second round. The mechanics were working hard to give him track position over Bottas, not keep Nico in the lead.



#3313 RubalSher

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 16:21

Definitely not sabotage but incompetence anyone?? 4 seconds is criminal in F1 today.



#3314 zottzell

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 16:21

From 9th to 2nd only beaten by his own pit crew - this race clearly goes to Lewis. It was an outstanding performance.

The start and the first lap was indeed impressive after that it was more or less what was to be expected by any of the Mercedes drivers.

 

Prediction: Lewis takes home the WDC after winning the last two double point races and those that complained about the point scheme now suddenly think that the change was alright all along. 


Edited by zottzell, 22 June 2014 - 16:23.


#3315 jcpower13

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 16:22

Funny how no one has commented on Lewis getting the potential advantage of pitting first at the second round. The mechanics were working hard to give him track position over Bottas, not keep Nico in the lead.

Aye, they did their best, only a 4 second stop that time, he was so lucky Williams dropped the ball big time.



#3316 malibu

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 16:24

I had the feeling nico drove under control  especially in the beginning of the stints. Nico's fastest lap of the race was the same as alonso for instance, difficult to imagine nico not being able to go quicker if he wanted;

When lewis was closing on him, he didn't try to respond immediately, like if he waited for hamilton to dig on his tires. Then at the right moment, he did a great lap and gained some security. There is no doubt nico had the speed. Why didn't he deliver it more often ?  Tires and brakes management ?  Because he simply couldn't ? For sure, nico chose to hide his true pace on many occasions this year. The last one was in Q3 in Canada.


Edited by malibu, 22 June 2014 - 16:29.


#3317 meddo

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 16:24

    Lewis wins = genius     Nico wins = no credit     and so it goes  ......   :drunk:

Well, he¨s clearly 29 points better. I'll give you that



#3318 Clatter

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 16:25

Definitely not sabotage but incompetence anyone?? 4 seconds is criminal in F1 today.

Not if you know the reason. There was damage to the brake housing and the mechanic had to take his time to prevent furthur damage.



#3319 Clatter

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 16:27

The start and the first lap was indeed impressive after that it was more or less what was to be expected by any of the Mercedes drivers.

 

Prediction: Lewis takes home the WDC after winning the last two double point races and those that complained about the point scheme now suddenly think that the change was alright all along. 

Last 2? I thought it is was just the last race.



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#3320 jcpower13

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 16:27

Not if you know the reason. There was damage to the brake housing and the mechanic had to take his time to prevent furthur damage.

Must've been damage on all 4 wheels, they all looked equally slow in the wheel transfer.



#3321 sennafan24

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 16:27

The ones of you who believe in these conspiracy pitstops must be kidding right? 

Yeah, maybe the two people who have called a conspiracy in this thread

 

Quit creating an argument, some just think Lewis was unlucky on this specific day.



#3322 NateF

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 16:27

Rosberg has shown on the past 2 races that he cracks under pressure and starts to make mistakes so he's not so high like you want us to believe...

 

Whatever mistakes Rosberg made, he has cushy 29 point lead over his team mate, also I said he is on a high, not that he is high. Technically he is both, considering he is leading the WDC.

 

Rosberg can have a few bad races or misfortune, so this is far from over.

 

Rosberg may have misfortune but there is nothing to say he will, could be on Alonso kind of roll of zero dnfs in a boat load of races. Hamilton can't rely on the car next door breaking down, he needs to be ahead consistently from now on. 



#3323 zottzell

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 16:28

Last 2? I thought it is was just the last race.

Yeah you are correct, not sure where i got that from. There was a proposal to extend it to the last three races but it didn't fly.

Thanks for the heads up.


Edited by zottzell, 22 June 2014 - 16:30.


#3324 DriveFastLiveSlow

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 16:29

I had the feeling nico drove under control  especially in the beginning of the stints. Nico's fastest lap of the race was the same as alonso for instance, difficult to imagine nico not being able to go quicker if he wanted;

When lewis was closing on him, he didn't try to respond immediately, like if he waited for hamilton to dig on his tires. Then at the right moment, he did a great lap and gained some security. There is no doubt nico had the speed. Why didn't he deliver it more often ?  Tires and brakes management ?  Because he simply couldn't ?   Don't have the right answer but for sure, nico chose to hide his true pace on many occasions this year. The last one was in Q3 in Canada.

 

Engine management? He was controlling the race. No need for glory laps.



#3325 masa90

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 16:29

The ones of you who believe in these conspiracy pitstops must be kidding right? Even if the mechanics would sabotage Lewis (which is totally ridiculous to think!), if they would try to be slower, the differences would be much bigger! I doubt they can control such small margins, which of course may be deciding in a sport like F1, but they are only humans. And need I remind you that Lewis won 4 races thus far with Nico coming second and no one in the team sabotaged Hamilton.

 

Dont worry, it is the pressure of championship battle affecting them.

 

He lost on merit again this weekend, shit happens and try as hard as you can next weekend. That is all i think Lewis should be doing. Enough of chit chat, drive your heart out and see where you end up.



#3326 Zoetrope

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 16:31

From 9th to 2nd only beaten by his own pit crew - this race clearly goes to Lewis. It was an outstanding performance.

If it makes you feel better, then yes, Lewis was better in the race. But what counts is whole weekend and it clearly goes to Rosberg.

At the same time, I understand bitterness coming from his first pit stop that should have put him ahead of Bottas - and consequently allowed him to try to overtake Rosberg in second pits. But these things happen and we have to accept F1 is a team sport.

My thoughts on 29 points? It's not nothing, but not that massive gap either. Once again Lewis shown better pace, just didn't capitalize on it. Lewis makes mistakes, but so does Nico. He was weak in wet qualifying and yesterday he let the bloody Williams get in front of him (he was denied his second hot lap to his defence thou). Perhaps some day his mistake will actually cost him.

Basically, racing in 2014 might not be top level, but championship battle is great. Maybe a bit unfair, but it makes it exciting. With a bit of luck Lewis could have won all races this season and we would be all so proud of him, wrote essays on his greatness etc... but stripped of excitement. I can't wait for Silverstone  :)



#3327 TomNokoe

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 16:32

If the season was 12 GPs long (Abu Dhabi = 2), would you bet Hamilton would finish more than 29 points ahead of Rosberg?

I would.

As Zoetrope said, this is exciting. When he crosses the line in Abu Dhabi it will feel that much more sweeter because he has overcome the odds :up:

Edited by TomNokoe, 22 June 2014 - 16:33.


#3328 Heisenberg

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 16:35

Dont worry, it is the pressure of championship battle affecting them.

 

He lost on merit again this weekend, shit happens and try as hard as you can next weekend. That is all i think Lewis should be doing. Enough of chit chat, drive your heart out and see where you end up.

Yes, but people don't understand that mistakes like these happen. Thus far Hamilton cracked, Rosberg cracked. And like I said before, we are going to see more of that this season!



#3329 Britophile

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 16:37

Yet another mighty performance from both drivers. Nico won a brilliantly controlled race whilst Lewis did the best he could given his circumstances.

 

They have been teammates now for the past 29 GPs. Here are their h2h stats (in brackets, I indicated those figures that change regarding the results from Malaysia last year where the podium should have gone to Nico even by Lewis's own admission), with bold you can see which one of them is leading in that respective field:

 

GPs: 29

Qualifying: LH 15 : 12 NR

Pole positions: LH 9 - 6 NR

Races finished: LH 12 : 10 NR (11 : 11)

Races won: LH 5 : 5 NR

Podiums: LH 11 : 12 NR (10 : 13)

Points: LH 325 : 336 NR (322 : 339)
DNFs: LH 3 : 3 NR

Faster laps between the two: LH 11 : 11 NR

Fastest lap overall: LH 2 : 3 NR

 

As you can see, they both lead in 3 categories each over the other and they are tied in race victories, DNFs and faster laps. Fantastically close racing between these two, thrilling to watch. I honestly don't think there have been a stronger driver pairing since the Senna vs Prost days (including 2007 with Alonso vs Hamilton).

 

At the moment I think Nico has the psychological edge though especially with his win by fending off Lewis today. He responded strongly in the last 3 races to Lewis's 4-0 sweep between Malaysia and Spain, just as well as he responded and upped his game after the summer break last year with 40 points down to Lewis in the standings. He seems particularly strong in that department.

 

That said, the season is still long though. I wouldn't put money on either of them for the title for the life of me as of yet.



#3330 RubalSher

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 16:39

Rosberg may have misfortune but there is nothing to say he will, could be on Alonso kind of roll of zero dnfs in a boat load of races. Hamilton can't rely on the car next door breaking down, he needs to be ahead consistently from now on. 

 

I never said Lewis will win by waiting on Nico. All I am saying is that Lewis needs to start winning again and Nico's misfortune and DNFs may happen too.



#3331 superdelphinus

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 16:53

The momentum will swing one way and the other all season, it'll just be down to DNFs and where the music stops in the last race. Epic season

#3332 P123

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 16:59

Definitely not sabotage but incompetence anyone?? 4 seconds is criminal in F1 today.


Damage to the cake tin apparently. They did look visually less rushed, and the time showed it, so obviously had to be a touch more careful.

#3333 krea

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 17:20

Could only watch the last 1/2 of the race.

 

But it looks like Hamilton suffered the same things as Rosberg at the beginning of the year. Modern cars loosing too much pace if they are too close to another car + the fact that the other guy drives the same car with the same characteristics.


Edited by krea, 22 June 2014 - 17:20.


#3334 TomNokoe

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 17:20

To rub salt into the wounds, Hamilton was faster in and out of the pits

I only have pit times to one decimal

HAM 22.2 22.6.

ROS 21.5 21.7

Hamilton's stops were 1 and 1.5 seconds slower, right?

#3335 RubalSher

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 17:23

Hamilton's stops were 1 and 1.5 seconds slower, right?

 

Thought they were 0.9 and 1.0 seconds slower.

 

Nico's were 2.6 and 3.0 whereas Lewis was 3.5 & 4.0.



#3336 RubalSher

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 17:24

So how come the Mercs werent way faster than the rest. I am not only talking Williams but Alonso and Perez were not that far behind in their lap times either. So have the others closed onto Merc or was this a one off?



#3337 TomNokoe

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 17:25

Thought they were 0.9 and 1.0 seconds slower.

Nico's were 2.6 and 3.0 whereas Lewis was 3.5 & 4.0.

Ah, well he was definitely faster at the first stop.
Seems that decided the race, really.

#3338 TomNokoe

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 17:26

So how come the Mercs werent way faster than the rest. I am not only talking Williams but Alonso and Perez were not that far behind in their lap times either. So have the others closed onto Merc or was this a one off?


Caught up. I know Rosberg's first Q3 lap wasn't special, but after two sectors even Magnussen was faster than him.

#3339 Zoetrope

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 17:27

My favorite overtake of the season  :love: 



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#3340 Fonzey

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 17:29

So how come the Mercs werent way faster than the rest. I am not only talking Williams but Alonso and Perez were not that far behind in their lap times either. So have the others closed onto Merc or was this a one off?

 

Heavy temperature management I would imagine. The Williams/Merc group pulled away from the pack incredibly fast at the start of the race, and were then reeled in as the management phase stepped up.

 

Both Merc's and Bottas were dancing around the 1.5-2.0sec gap zone all race long, which is lots of hot air and appropriate management required.

 

I don't think the gap today was representative.



#3341 RubalSher

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 17:33

Caught up. I know Rosberg's first Q3 lap wasn't special, but after two sectors even Magnussen was faster than him.

 

With Hammy 29 behind, this may be good news. Silverstone will likely confirm it either way.



#3342 SinStorm

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 18:05

If the season was 12 GPs long (Abu Dhabi = 2), would you bet Hamilton would finish more than 29 points ahead of Rosberg?

I would.

As Zoetrope said, this is exciting. When he crosses the line in Abu Dhabi it will feel that much more sweeter because he has overcome the odds :up:


If Lewis overcomes the DNF's to go on to become WDC it would be beyond amazing. Here's hoping...

#3343 Nemo1965

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 18:15

No, they¨re not. It's just that blonde one is utilizing his full potential, and the other driver is at 80 percent, mostly through faults of his own.

 

Mm... I've written an article about that once. Do you know the term 'average to the mean'?

 

Suppose you got two long-jumpers. They do a series of jumps in different athletic meetings:

 

1. Jumper 1 jumps 7 metres-7-metres-7-metres-7metres

2. Jumber 2 jumps 7 meters, 8 metres 6 metres 6 metres

 

Superficially witnessed, jumper 2 is 'better' because he onced jumped 8 metres. 'Aha,' the pundits say, 'that longest jump is his real potential.' Suddenly when jumper 2 jumps 7 metres it is under his true potential, he is underachieving. While the truth is: While I say: both jumpers jump, on average, 7 metres. 



#3344 mgs315

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 18:19

My favorite overtake of the season :love:

https://www.youtube....h?v=MrV2oQo7wkU


Jesus, that was further back than his overtake on Kimi in Monza in 2008(?)

I wouldn't have even tried that in a video game. Admittedly new tyres not up to temperature for Massa but Christ.

#3345 Kingshark

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 18:20

Lewis had pace in hand but lost it all in Q3 yesterday. Lewis really need to work on his dry qualifyings, though. Bahrain, Monaco, Montreal and Austria; 3 mistakes in 4 dry Q3.

 

No matter how hard he works on the dry qualifying, he ain't beating the DQK!   ;)



#3346 bauss

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 18:20

is there any onboard video from Lewis first lap 



#3347 sennafan24

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 18:21

Qualifying and track position is key between these two

 

Other than Bahrain and Australia, the driver who has started ahead has finished ahead. If we delve deeper, we find that the driver who was the ahead after the 1st corner has always finished ahead.

 

So yeah, Lewis needs to hold his nerve in Q3, his starts have been vastly improved since 2013.

 

29 points is a hefty margin though.



#3348 hollowstar

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 18:24

Great race by both drivers. Congrats Nico on the win!  This was the first time in my book that Nico outperformed Lewis over a full week-end, without the help of mechanical issues or any unfair advantage. He may have been slightly slower in the race today, but at least delivered the goods in qualy yesterday, and did a good job managing the gap in the last few laps. 

 

Lewis' race was brilliant and exciting! The fastest man today for sure, but he didn't do the job on Saturday. I hope he'll improve his Q3s for the next races. 

 

 

If the season was 12 GPs long (Abu Dhabi = 2), would you bet Hamilton would finish more than 29 points ahead of Rosberg?

I would.

As Zoetrope said, this is exciting. When he crosses the line in Abu Dhabi it will feel that much more sweeter because he has overcome the odds :up:

 

How I envy your optimism  :)

 


Edited by hollowstar, 22 June 2014 - 18:30.


#3349 sennafan24

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 18:26

Great race by both drivers. Congrats Nico on the win! This was the first time in my book that Nico outperformed Lewis over a full week-end,

Yep

Lewis's weekend was bodged up by Saturday. The overall weekend goes to Nico on pure merit, even if he was not as impressive as Lewis in the race today.

Edited by SophieB, 22 June 2014 - 18:30.


#3350 TomNokoe

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 18:27

is there any onboard video from Lewis first lap

I think that is the sort of thing they save for the F1 season review :(

When he passed Alonso I was having visions of montages in years to come replaying his greatest victory.... alas