64 replies to this topic

[garagetinkerer]

http://en.espnf1.com...ory/160813.html

 

Could be just some niceties exchanged, or could be the biggest coup that f1 has staged in a while. He's quite popular and he will continue for a bit if he takes the bait. Though all things will have to wait till 2016, as that is when his contract is up for renewal. So which team owner is going to play this out? Anybody's guess really, but i guess it may or may not work with Ferrari. Rossi was very promising, but they still ignored him (owing to internal politics). So else? Redbull is a personal sponsor (millions of souls cried in horror and then they were suddenly silenced) .

 

 

cheers!

[Altair]

My two idols,thanks for the photo. How much talent in that picture.

[slideways]

..... Honda?

 

But no.

 

I'm sure he could nail a good lap in a modern car, sticky tyres and a free track to play on all day

 

But come business time, he would be no where, just as Rossi, Loeb*, Gordon and the others.

 

*Prior to him gaining all that circuit experience anyway.

[garagetinkerer]

..... Honda?

 

But no.

 

I'm sure he could nail a good lap in a modern car, sticky tyres and a free track to play on all day

 

But come business time, he would be no where, just as Rossi, Loeb*, Gordon and the others.

 

*Prior to him gaining all that circuit experience anyway.

Thing is, he weighs merely 58 Kgs... he has a massive advantage against generally larger drivers in terms of ballast and fuel alone. Then there is matter of talent. He could be very good, or may be not, but in this new formula, i'd not be so quick to write him off. Rossi was also left on the wayside by Il Presidente' as he was keen on securing clout back in Ferrari at the time more than hiring right drivers... and i'm not arguing that Rossi would have been a better choice than Raikkonen, but unless you try, you never know. I quite don't know the story of why Loeb didn't work out in F1... would you share information?

[RedOne]

My two idols,thanks for the photo. How much talent in that picture.

They would make a killer team!

[slideways]

Thing is, he weighs merely 58 Kgs... he has a massive advantage against generally larger drivers in terms of ballast and fuel alone. Then there is matter of talent. He could be very good, or may be not, but in this new formula, i'd not be so quick to write him off. Rossi was also left on the wayside by Il Presidente' as he was keen on securing clout back in Ferrari at the time more than hiring right drivers... and i'm not arguing that Rossi would have been a better choice than Raikkonen, but unless you try, you never know. I quite don't know the story of why Loeb didn't work out in F1... would you share information?

Loeb was on top of the world and switching disciplines was a risk in terms of his legacy and enjoying himself. There was interest but by the time he satisfied his rally ambitions it was too late to put a real program together. 

 

He undoubtedly had the talent. Marquez too. I don't believe there is a wide degree in separation of the skills you use on 2 or 4 wheels (I race on both). 

 

The problem is the fundamentals you learn in karting and the junior classes are missing. Bruno Senna is a good example. If you ignore the stigma of his name, he obviously had plenty of natural talent. More than Chandhok or some of his other peers IMO. But he sucked as an overall package.

 

Rossi was really a feel good gesture from Ferrari. They were never going to place him in cars 1 or 2, or rely on him for success. He was also a tool they were using to try and win the war with Mosley over cost caps and small teams. Ferrari wanted a manufacturer championship (+williams, sauber) with a 3 car, and potentially satellite customer situation.

 

On the weight thing - being lighter is less of an advantage than being heavy is a disadvantage. Fuel is flow limited and there is a standard weight distro range you can hit with chassis/suspension design. It's when they are at or above the min weight limit that driver weights really come into play.

[eronrules]

why does it need it's own thread??? it's not even a probability ATM, it's just a 'wish'

[KingTiger]

It's not going to happen and there's no proof that he'll be anywhere near the F1 level. 

[V8 Fireworks]

http://en.espnf1.com...ory/160813.html

 

Could be just some niceties exchanged, or could be the biggest coup that f1 has staged in a while. 

 

Yeah, no, driving cars is hard (more importantly, very different).

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe Marquez is much more talented than Stoner, but it seems unlikely.

[Thomas99]

It would be taking away all of his talents, Marquez leans the bike down and rides it sideways moving his bodyweight to balance it. Driving a car is about precision with wheel inputs.

 

Don't get me wrong, he'd still be fast in a car compared to most people but even the worse F1 drivers on the grid are very talented race drivers and I think he'd still be quite a bit off their pace.

[PayasYouRace]

This is why I'd like there to be some provision in the F1 sporting regulations for occasional 3rd car entries. Someone like Marquez is unlikely to want to reset his career with a midfield team, and no top team would take that risk. But if there was a system where each team could select a few races to run an optional 3rd car, then it would allow outsiders to try their hand.

 

Thing is, he weighs merely 58 Kgs...

 

He's a dwarf!

[Jackmancer]

Stoner has miserably failed in V8 Supercars but there's also examples of Rossi doing respectable laptimes, and what about Surtees. 

 

I don't think Marquez will ever switch to F1 - he just wants to try it out for once, let alone he has the talent for it.

But like Rossi, he did some rallying

 

[ensign14]

It would be taking away all of his talents, Marquez leans the bike down and rides it sideways moving his bodyweight to balance it. Driving a car is about precision with wheel inputs.

 

At a Christmas do hosted by Jo Bonnier in his palatial surroundings, some time in the mid sixties, everyone was encouraged to have a go at bouncing up the ceremonial stairs on a pogo stick.  Almost everyone fell off after the first couple of bounces.

 

The exception was Jim Clark, whose first attempt saw him flawlessly bounce up each step in turn to the top.

 

The phenomenal sense of balance Marquez has would definitely be an asset even in today's F1.

 

Oddly, his size might be a problem; he might be too small.  I think of drivers like Roberto Moreno, who were brilliant in the lower formulae, but when they got to F1 and faced the exponentially greater stresses and longer Grand Prix races, could not cope.

[tifosiMac]

Its always fascinating to see sportsman change from two wheels to four and I would have loved to have seen Rossi attempt it seriously, same with Marquez. With MotoGP having disappeared off TV, it would be cool to see him in a popular sport too!

[Seanspeed]

At a Christmas do hosted by Jo Bonnier in his palatial surroundings, some time in the mid sixties, everyone was encouraged to have a go at bouncing up the ceremonial stairs on a pogo stick.  Almost everyone fell off after the first couple of bounces.
 
The exception was Jim Clark, whose first attempt saw him flawlessly bounce up each step in turn to the top.
 
The phenomenal sense of balance Marquez has would definitely be an asset even in today's F1.
 
Oddly, his size might be a problem; he might be too small.  I think of drivers like Roberto Moreno, who were brilliant in the lower formulae, but when they got to F1 and faced the exponentially greater stresses and longer Grand Prix races, could not cope.

Its true. Ability on a pogo stick is usually the main difference between the top drivers and the rest.

[ionutf1fan]

This is the same marketing nonsense as Rossi competing for Ferrari in F1, a few years ago.

[Arn]

I think you have misunderstood what he said, and the article gives a wrong impression.

 

He said it during the saturday qualifying press conference when asked about what Alonso and he talked about when they met. Clearly he meant to try a F1 car in the sense that just to try drive one, not to compete in F1.

 

The most funny part was left out of the article. Asked about what car he would like to try, he smiled and hesitated a bit before saying Red Bull but then someone among the crowd mentioned that Honda would be back next year, then he laughed and said, ok Honda then.

[Zoetrope]

Thing is, he weighs merely 58 Kgs... he has a massive advantage against generally larger drivers in terms of ballast and fuel alone. Then there is matter of talent. He could be very good, or may be not, but in this new formula, i'd not be so quick to write him off. Rossi was also left on the wayside by Il Presidente' as he was keen on securing clout back in Ferrari at the time more than hiring right drivers... and i'm not arguing that Rossi would have been a better choice than Raikkonen, but unless you try, you never know. I quite don't know the story of why Loeb didn't work out in F1... would you share information?

You are trying to be rational about it? There is like 5000 online sim racing players that would do way better than Marquez in F1 car. Did he even drove a kart? 

[noikeee]

Would be great to see him have a go at a test, but who the hell knows how good is he on a car. Rossi was very good, yet was nowhere near F1 level even after several tests.

 

The advantage this kid has is that he's very young and already set to sweep a lot of titles in motorcycles, so could be tempted to have a go at cars earlier hence still be within time to amass some experience. However even then it'd take years to get to Formula 1 level, and that's assuming he's good. He's better off at occasional GT races like Ogier or something.

[chunder27]

Cant happen soon enough for me!!

[Nemo1965]

At a Christmas do hosted by Jo Bonnier in his palatial surroundings, some time in the mid sixties, everyone was encouraged to have a go at bouncing up the ceremonial stairs on a pogo stick.  Almost everyone fell off after the first couple of bounces.

 

The exception was Jim Clark, whose first attempt saw him flawlessly bounce up each step in turn to the top.

 

The phenomenal sense of balance Marquez has would definitely be an asset even in today's F1.

 

Oddly, his size might be a problem; he might be too small.  I think of drivers like Roberto Moreno, who were brilliant in the lower formulae, but when they got to F1 and faced the exponentially greater stresses and longer Grand Prix races, could not cope.

 

That is a very interesting story, also regarding the fact that Surtees (the ex-motorbike-champ) crossed over to F1 and won the worldtitle during the 1,5 litre era (and also drove and won a GP in the 3-litre era, btw). I've always had the idea that Clark was even more unbeatable in the 1,5 litre F1 cars than he was in the 3 litre era. At least Graham Hill was a lot closer in the 3-litre Lotuses than he was in the lighter versions.

 

I've once read a comment by an ex-F1 driver that Clark was so good in the light F1 cars, because he was so good in taking a lot of speed through the corner and he could do that by the incredible feel in his hands and, sorry, the seat of his pants. That advantage was slightly negated by the 3-litre cars where you could use the throttle more to build speed after the corner.

 

Exactly the opposite (of Clark) has been said about Niki Lauda, by one of the engineers of Porsche, I believe, when he was dominant for Ferrari (1975-1976). He said words to the effect of: 'If F1-cars had 300 hp, Lauda would not be so dominant. If the F1-cars had 1000 hp, he would destroy everyone.'

[undersquare]

I'd love to see him try.  F1 is so much bigger than MotoGP these days, and he's been there and done that already, why wouldn't he be curious to see?  Just with a casual drive, so start with.

 

I don't think he or anyone else can really predict how he'd get on, until he tries it.  But I feel he has more natural talent than Damon Hill.

 

He needs to switch soon though.

[Andrew Hope]

Well, we'd all love to just try F1.

[F1TestCatalunya]

post #3

 

He would be nowhere just like Rossi

 

post #19

 

Rossi was very good, yet was nowhere near F1 level even after several tests.

 

 

Erm...

In the Valencia test he was 0.011 behind Coulthard and faster than Wurz, Paffett, Webber & Kubica on day 2.

 

Day 3 he was 0.049 behind Rosberg and faster than de la Rosa, Montoya, Trulli & Kubica.

 

Yeah, you're right, that's not very good at all.

[HaydenFan]

Well, we'd all love to just try F1.

 

What Hope said. 

[noikeee]

post #3

 

post #19

 

 

Erm...

In the Valencia test he was 0.011 behind Coulthard and faster than Wurz, Paffett, Webber & Kubica on day 2.

 

Day 3 he was 0.049 behind Rosberg and faster than de la Rosa, Montoya, Trulli & Kubica.

 

Yeah, you're right, that's not very good at all.

 

Sorry for not having a database of testing laptimes in my mind.

 

My impression then was that he hadn't been very quick for a Ferrari, who was the car that was the class of the field, and would have been set up for ultimate laptime for PR reasons. Evidently still extremely impressive laptimes for a guy who had never raced openwheelers, but certainly not good enough to give him the seat ahead of all of the other guys that had been doing that for at least a decade and are the absolute top talents in the field.

 

My memories might be a bit fuzzy and confused with the Loeb GP2 test when he was the slowest guy by 1 second (still a great laptime by a rally guy), but I still get the distinct idea Rossi wasn't anywhere near good enough/prepared enough to be given the actual Ferrari seat as suggested then.

[femi]

I hope he understands you don't steer an F1 car with your butt.

Edited by femi, 02 June 2014 - 17:10.

[Coral]

I would so love this to happen, in fact I was just thinking last night, given my disillusionment with Lewis Hamilton, how good it would be if Marc Marquez could switch to F1. Sometimes I think I have second sight!

 

Whether it will indeed happen, who knows...but I shall keep my fingers tightly crossed. Marquez is a lovely personality and his beautiful smile could brighten up anybody's day. He would be my favourite F1 driver, bar none.

[pingu666]

i dont care much for his smile, but his insane ability on a bike is what i watch motogp for, occasionaly

[garagetinkerer]

Its true. Ability on a pogo stick is usually the main difference between the top drivers and the rest.

  Man... remind me to wear a cup...

[Heisenberg]

Didn't Rossi wanted to try F1 too some years ago? It's gonna be interesting if he makes it into F1, but there's no guarantee that he will be as good as he is with the bike!

[garagetinkerer]

You are trying to be rational about it? There is like 5000 online sim racing players that would do way better than Marquez in F1 car. Did he even drove a kart? 

So let us expand on what you suggest... Very likely that Marquez will initially be slower than all those 5000 online sim racing players, in a simulator. Would you like to wager who will actually do more competitive a time in a car after a bit of practice?

[garagetinkerer]

At a Christmas do hosted by Jo Bonnier in his palatial surroundings, some time in the mid sixties, everyone was encouraged to have a go at bouncing up the ceremonial stairs on a pogo stick.  Almost everyone fell off after the first couple of bounces.

 

The exception was Jim Clark, whose first attempt saw him flawlessly bounce up each step in turn to the top.

 

The phenomenal sense of balance Marquez has would definitely be an asset even in today's F1.

 

Oddly, his size might be a problem; he might be too small.  I think of drivers like Roberto Moreno, who were brilliant in the lower formulae, but when they got to F1 and faced the exponentially greater stresses and longer Grand Prix races, could not cope.

Great story...

 

Very possibly wrong on that account. Marquez is barely shorter than Alonso. As long as he is able to see above the high rise noses of now, he should be fine. He will need to work on his neck muscles, though with newer versions of HANS, the stresses that one endures are comparatively tame when looking back at early 2000's.

 

 

That is a very interesting story, also regarding the fact that Surtees (the ex-motorbike-champ) crossed over to F1 and won the worldtitle during the 1,5 litre era (and also drove and won a GP in the 3-litre era, btw). I've always had the idea that Clark was even more unbeatable in the 1,5 litre F1 cars than he was in the 3 litre era. At least Graham Hill was a lot closer in the 3-litre Lotuses than he was in the lighter versions.

 

I've once read a comment by an ex-F1 driver that Clark was so good in the light F1 cars, because he was so good in taking a lot of speed through the corner and he could do that by the incredible feel in his hands and, sorry, the seat of his pants. That advantage was slightly negated by the 3-litre cars where you could use the throttle more to build speed after the corner.

 

Exactly the opposite (of Clark) has been said about Niki Lauda, by one of the engineers of Porsche, I believe, when he was dominant for Ferrari (1975-1976). He said words to the effect of: 'If F1-cars had 300 hp, Lauda would not be so dominant. If the F1-cars had 1000 hp, he would destroy everyone.'

  Man there are some good story tellers here... if anyone could get Blake, POB or obi1 over to the dark side from pf1... Also, didn't F1 cars then had about 400 hp?

Edited by garagetinkerer, 02 June 2014 - 17:44.

[garagetinkerer]

post #3

 

post #19

 

 

Erm...

In the Valencia test he was 0.011 behind Coulthard and faster than Wurz, Paffett, Webber & Kubica on day 2.

 

Day 3 he was 0.049 behind Rosberg and faster than de la Rosa, Montoya, Trulli & Kubica.

 

Yeah, you're right, that's not very good at all.

 

IIRC Rossi was about half a second or so off Schumacher's times... which with limited running was no small feat.

[garagetinkerer]

Loeb was on top of the world and switching disciplines was a risk in terms of his legacy and enjoying himself. There was interest but by the time he satisfied his rally ambitions it was too late to put a real program together. 

 

He undoubtedly had the talent. Marquez too. I don't believe there is a wide degree in separation of the skills you use on 2 or 4 wheels (I race on both). 

 

The problem is the fundamentals you learn in karting and the junior classes are missing. Bruno Senna is a good example. If you ignore the stigma of his name, he obviously had plenty of natural talent. More than Chandhok or some of his other peers IMO. But he sucked as an overall package.

 

Rossi was really a feel good gesture from Ferrari. They were never going to place him in cars 1 or 2, or rely on him for success. He was also a tool they were using to try and win the war with Mosley over cost caps and small teams. Ferrari wanted a manufacturer championship (+williams, sauber) with a 3 car, and potentially satellite customer situation.

 

On the weight thing - being lighter is less of an advantage than being heavy is a disadvantage. Fuel is flow limited and there is a standard weight distro range you can hit with chassis/suspension design. It's when they are at or above the min weight limit that driver weights really come into play.

I thought right now they're pretty close to weight limit with the cars... so even a small difference will make a huge difference in results potentially. Imagine being able to run most of the GP at the maximum permissible fuel flow, pretty sure that it will give headaches to some on the track.

[Risil]

Oddly, his size might be a problem; he might be too small.  I think of drivers like Roberto Moreno, who were brilliant in the lower formulae, but when they got to F1 and faced the exponentially greater stresses and longer Grand Prix races, could not cope.

 

Moreno did exceptionally well in places like Michigan and Cleveland Airport in CART. I don't think he was aggressive or political enough to succeed in F1.

[Risil]

Exactly the opposite (of Clark) has been said about Niki Lauda, by one of the engineers of Porsche, I believe, when he was dominant for Ferrari (1975-1976). He said words to the effect of: 'If F1-cars had 300 hp, Lauda would not be so dominant. If the F1-cars had 1000 hp, he would destroy everyone.'

 

If the cars of the 1970s had had 1000hp, everyone wouldn't have needed Lauda's help to be destroyed.

[Eff One 2002]

Tarso Marques has already had his shot at F1... oh wait...

[Altair]

i dont care much for his smile, but his insane ability on a bike is what i watch motogp for, occasionaly

 

Yes, his driving style is really impresive and fun to watch

 

He is bloody fast, a mix between Casey Stoner and Marco Simoncelli and with Valentino Rossi intelligence.

[garagetinkerer]

Tarso Marques has already had his shot at F1... oh wait...

Marques =/= Marquez

 

FAIL!!!

[George Costanza]

The only example of a true success is John Surtees. And I don't think we will see another one quite like him ever again. It is close to impossible to do that today. Winning MotoGP title and the F1 championship?

 

Yet somehow John did it. And John could have won two or more titles had he stayed with Ferrari, which he admits.

That is an INCREDIBLE feat.

Edited by George Costanza, 03 June 2014 - 03:26.

[garagetinkerer]

The only example of a true success is John Surtees. And I don't think we will see another one quite like him ever again. It is close to impossible to do that today. Winning MotoGP title and the F1 championship?

 

Yet somehow John did it. And John could have won two or more titles had he stayed with Ferrari, which he admits.

That is an INCREDIBLE feat.

i seriously feel that Marquez could be the one who will repeat it, if not better it. The current rules will help him a fair bit. Heck, i read that a lot of cars are much closer to the weight limit this year. Although, in a formula that we had before is anybody's guess.

[Zoetrope]

So let us expand on what you suggest... Very likely that Marquez will initially be slower than all those 5000 online sim racing players, in a simulator. Would you like to wager who will actually do more competitive a time in a car after a bit of practice?

You have a point here, but lots of Marquez talent is based on leaning a bike in the corners, as someone already said. It's just different driving style. Look at Kubica in WRC. I really believe he is much more talented than other rally drivers (maybe except for Ogier), but having driven on racing circuits all his life, he just can't adapt that easily. And I think transition from racing to rallying is smaller than from bike to a car.

[beqa16v]

That would be very interesting...

He reminds me of Jacky Icks so much

http://t3.gstatic.co...wS6o4BvgB9bsybw

 

[DS27]

Apparently Pedrosa and Lorenzo are quite keen on this happening in the next few years..

[Nemo1965]

Great story...

 

Very possibly wrong on that account. Marquez is barely shorter than Alonso. As long as he is able to see above the high rise noses of now, he should be fine. He will need to work on his neck muscles, though with newer versions of HANS, the stresses that one endures are comparatively tame when looking back at early 2000's.

 

 

  Man there are some good story tellers here... if anyone could get Blake, POB or obi1 over to the dark side from pf1... Also, didn't F1 cars then had about 400 hp?

 

According to my Grand Prix yearbooks (by Heinz Pruller)  the Cosworth had about 400 HP at its birth in 1967, around 450 in 1975 and 465 HP in 1977 (Lauda's last year at Ferrari). It is save to assume that the Ferrari engine had more HP and more torque than the Ford, considering it was V12 (later a boxer? Can't remember.)

 

Regarding the HP: Of course Ford had a business, and one should take HP figures (without an independent bench test) with a pinch of salt. Illuminating was the test that Jeremy Clarkson did with a Lotus E-type. The topspeed and HP advertised in the 60's: total bogus.

 

Regarding Surtees: I admire him as much as I admire Niki Lauda, Stewart and Jim Clark. But I highly doubt that he would have won two more worldtitles with Ferrari. He was ousted for political reasons, and to get Ferrari to work you have to get Ferrari at your side as a dvier. And if you get fired, you don't have Ferrari at your side. Simple no?

[Jackmancer]

What about Damon Hill? He raced bikes before F1.

[RosannaG]

http://www.laf1.es/n...formula-1-95390

 

 

El piloto de Cervera ha revelado que le gustaría subirse a un coche de la categoría reina algún día, aunque dice que lo haría por diversión, no para competir en una carrera oficial. Al principio comentó que le gustaría conducir el Red Bull, pero cuando le comentaron que Honda regresará el año que viene con McLaren cambió rápido su decisión. "De acuerdo, el Honda".

 

About trying a F1 car, the first sentence in bold says: "I would do it just for fun, not to compete in an official race"

[Nemo1965]

And there goes a nice thread. A shame!

 

Perhaps someone can start a new one: 'Crossovers - from Rally to F1, from Motorcycles to F1, From Any Topsport to F1 - will it happen again?'

[Atreiu]

Apparently Pedrosa and Lorenzo are quite keen on this happening in the next few years..

 

Haha, touche!

 

Well, there is only one way to fin out if Marquez' talent translates into Cars.