170 replies to this topic

[LeMans86]

"They are not happy. The marketers love it because it gives them a reason to put their investment into F1, and I completely understand that, but the drivers are not enjoying driving the cars this year."

"Nico [Rosberg] and Lewis [Hamilton] are probably a bit happier as they have a better package, but even if you speak to them privately they say the driving experience is not as pure as it was.


He also says that the fans have every right to complain about the noise: "If you went to see the Rolling Stones and they came out and said tonight we're only doing an acoustic set because we're getting old and don't want all the noise then the crowd wouldn't be very happy and rightly so."

Read more at http://en.espnf1.com...xPr10TC2rzft.99

[FullThrottleF1]

This is getting boring now...

[jestaudio]

Well without being nasty or contentious, drivers have a choice, drive in a different series, Endurance, rallying, DTM, Indy car, whatever, no one forces them to drive in F1 the same as no one forces fans to watch F1, it is what it is, for better or worse.

Peace

[string158]

Doubt he'd be saying that if Redbull/Renault were dominating like Merc are...

[jestaudio]

I would also add what on earth is pure about driving a car that you can nail it without any real danger of losing it, whatever next, bring back launch control, traction control, active suspension, do these guys want to drive a race car or a F1 sim

[chunder27]

Diver dont have a choice at all

 

Most of time if youa re the top of your game F1 is where every race car driver is going to want to be.

 

OK, if you are older and have done a few years without success you can step back to WEC or go to America.

 

but if you are talented, have not had an F1 chance, there is nowhere else a budding single seater ace is wanting to be.

 

If you are a talent, and get in a scholarship program you are going to earn more money, be exposed to better training in all aspects and be better prepared.

 

If you are a mercurial talent like a Kimi or Alonso were, are you really going to run down F1 and drive sports cars?  Dont be silly, you will at least try F1 if you affered the chance to!

[HoldenRT]

What is?

 

It's like everything, better in some ways, worse in others.  Some advantages, some disadvantages.  Some things to appreciate and some things to loathe.  Depending on.. if you are in a glass half full or empty sort of mood.  It's not just this season, it's been a gradual decline since 2004, or 2008 or whatever other year you want to focus on.  The qualifying is still quite pure in terms of testing the drivers but the races become more and more of a management exercise/cruise.

 

F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle, faster than everyone else.  More sleek, more refined, and faster.  Requiring the best drivers in the world to maximize them.  It used to be like this.

 

They are slowly becoming more and more like GP2 cars, where rookies can come in and be as good as veterans because they aren't tested in terms of raw pace in the same way.  They are bottlenecked and well beneath the limits.  The pitwall controls things more.  "Drive to this laptime.. break earlier in turn 5.. etc".  In terms of turbos or lower revs, the oldies who loved the turbo era (probably grew up with it as kids) probably like it, but back then F1 WAS the pinnacle.  Now F1 has moved beyond that point, decades beyond that point.  So to go backwards is a bit...... but at the same time, slowing them down is inevitable for a number of reasons.  One of them being, if they were to continue to develop unhindered, they'd be like Star Wars pod racers where there would be fatalities after crashes.  And then there is environmental concerns and cost concerns and other things.  Indycar seems to have a better idea though, given the same limitations.  I don't follow Indycar very closely but from what I have seen in highlights or the odd parts of races here or there, the cars seem lively and the races seem dynamic where it feels like a race.  Instead of exercises in management.

[HoldenRT]

Well without being nasty or contentious, drivers have a choice, drive in a different series, Endurance, rallying, DTM, Indy car, whatever, no one forces them to drive in F1 the same as no one forces fans to watch F1, it is what it is, for better or worse.

Peace

 

Leave the series and join something else, because people on a forum are tired of hearing/reading/discussing your preferences in how the cars should or shouldn't be....

 

Practical advice there.  The drivers should definitely listen to this forum for career advice.

 

To go from F1 to anything else will always be a step down, regardless of if you prefer the cars or regs one way or the other.  To leave F1 only becomes practical when you are on the decline in form, or if you are out of options and know a team won't hire you, or if you know that the only teams that will hire you will be backmarker or uncompetitive teams.

[FullThrottleF1]

HoldenRT,

 

I take it you want be watching Canada

[HoldenRT]

Doubt he'd be saying that if Redbull/Renault were dominating like Merc are...

 

Pretty sure the two things are completely separate, why do things have to be so simple minded?  So one track minded?

 

Because I enjoyed F1 more in 2005 or 2006 for example, it was more satisfying to watch but the teams I liked were nowhere and I had to follow other teams like Alonso vs Kimi battle, but still enjoyed the racing overall.  As opposed to the last 4 years when Redbull dominated, where especially last season the racing seemed quite stale.  Except for certain moments, where the stars would align and sometimes it'd be great.  But the overall thing where the drivers follow the same times on live timing like a spec series and drive to deltas and below the optimum limit, I don't know how anyone can enjoy that (when being honest about it).  Have never been a fan of ban on refueling and spec tyres, and that's despite Redbull's success.  4 years on, success is a bit overrated compared to the enjoyment of watching all cars each weekend.. and enjoying the spectacle separate from who wins or loses.

 

If you asked Lewis if he prefers 2008 car or this car, I'm pretty sure.. he would say 2008.  It's just that it doesn't do much good talking about it because it's not going to change anytime soon.  And if people on forums are sensitive to it, imagine how the rules makers and team bosses are.  They want it this way for certain reasons.. and they don't want to be hearing the drivers criticize or complain about it every weekend, but drivers, fans and everyone else is entitled to their own preferences and their own opinion.  If someone prefers V12, V10, V8 or even V4.. refueling, non refueling, 3 stops, 4 stops or 2 stops.. I don't see any problems with that.

[noikeee]

I don't understand why would these cars be less fun to drive when they look far more on the edge this year, than last year when they often had to drive miles away from the limit in fear of hurting the precious Pirelli black cheese blocks.

[HoldenRT]

HoldenRT,

 

I take it you want be watching Canada

 

I have enjoyed every race weekend so far, probably the same as Lewis or one of the other drivers have.  I have new PC parts coming and will be deliberately waiting to install them after the weekend, so that I can relax and enjoy the weekend.  Despite the fact that Redbull will probably struggle and it'll be a Merc engine stomp.  It's a great track, and even this season the cars have some positive points to them.  Especially after the last 4 years when the regs were quite stable and predictable.  The development race and pecking order is still quite changeable at the moment.

 

But just because you enjoy something 6/10 or 7/10.. doesn't mean you wouldn't enjoy it more.. if there were other things like higher revs, or tyre changes or less conserving.  If they drivers pushed lap after lap in the races you might enjoy it 9/10.

 

That's why it's so stupid that people would expect the drivers to leave the series.  7/10 in F1 is still much better than a lot of other racing series.  They are still F1 cars and they are still travelling all over the world on many great tracks.

[boldhakka]

Apart from the noise, I'm more interested in how they feel about the lower cornering speeds, poor traction out of corners, low-grip tyres, etc. I don't think they feel like they are on the edge or pushing like they used to. 

[Kristian]

You see old drivers wax lyrical about how hard the cars were to drive in the 60s/70s/80s - the power, the torque, the complete lack of grip. 

 

This generation just don't know how to appreciate difficulty; they want it to be easy. 

 

I remember a brilliant article on when Schumacher drove Tambay's '83 Ferrari - he was totally in awe of it. 

[tifosiMac]

If Coulthard had said the drivers love driving the new cars then the people who enjoy it now wouldn't have a problem, naturally. I believe him and have to say from a TV viewers perspective its not as enthralling to watch this year and feels dumbed down. I'm still watching because I like F1 and you don't walk away from something just because aspects of it change that you don't agree with. Its good to hear pressure come from an inside source rather than thousands of fans on the internet. I doubt much will change though. 

[JHSingo]

How terrible. My heart bleeds for them.

[noikeee]

My eyes must be deceiving me because if I ignore the noise I don't see the cars being "dumbed down" at all. Bit less downforce, bit slower overall? Who cares, it's great that these things aren't planted. They've even got more power now when all the hybrid gizmos are working.

[nosecone]

The cars will become faster every year. With all the developement ongoing the new formula will soon be almost as fast as the old. The noise isn't bad either, we are just don't used to it yet. What is worse is the racing which is really bad occasionally. But as the developement goes on the speed difference between the cars will get smaller

[baddog]

Well without being nasty or contentious, drivers have a choice, drive in a different series, Endurance, rallying, DTM, Indy car, whatever, no one forces them to drive in F1 the same as no one forces fans to watch F1, it is what it is, for better or worse.

Peace

 

F1 regulations are not part of the glorious cycles of the universe you know, immutable and immune to human agency and all that. They are arbitrary and can be changed at any time if enough people persuade the right people.

[aguri]

The current cars need wider tyres on the back to handle the torque of the turbos better. They were meant to be wider this season but the teams had a whinge because of the development costs.

 

More mechanical grip, faster out of the corners and faster lap times. And they look better 

 

I really hope they bring them in for next season. 

[jestaudio]

Leave the series and join something else, because people on a forum are tired of hearing/reading/discussing your preferences in how the cars should or shouldn't be....

 

Practical advice there.  The drivers should definitely listen to this forum for career advice.

 

To go from F1 to anything else will always be a step down, regardless of if you prefer the cars or regs one way or the other.  To leave F1 only becomes practical when you are on the decline in form, or if you are out of options and know a team won't hire you, or if you know that the only teams that will hire you will be backmarker or uncompetitive teams.

Well considering i am relatively new and have made very few posts on any subject some people must be very thin skinned if my views annoy them so much, do i give a monkeys, not really.

[FredrikB]

They want more grip. That can be fixed http://www.autosport...t.php/id/114254

[jestaudio]

F1 regulations are not part of the glorious cycles of the universe you know, immutable and immune to human agency and all that. They are arbitrary and can be changed at any time if enough people persuade the right people.

And where did i say they were, my point was no one forces these driver who are allegedly missing the "pure" racing of the last cars to actually drive this years cars, i have yet to see a driver being manhandled into the cockpit or being coerced.

[BillBald]

I'd like to know which drivers are unhappy. I suspect it's those who have had trouble adapting their driving style.

 

Maybe he's been talking to Seb...

[Murl]

"They are not happy. The marketers love it because it gives them a reason to put their investment into F1, and I completely understand that, but the drivers are not enjoying driving the cars this year."

 

 

WTF

 

 

Fish or cut bait as they say.

 

[jestaudio]

Doubt he'd be saying that if Redbull/Renault were dominating like Merc are...

I rather suspect that when it comes down to brass tacks very few drivers are complaining that much, only the ones that have a issue with coping with the new cars if the truth be know

[uffen]

I strongly suspect the drivers' opinion is largely due to the steps they must go through to get the most out of these cars. The button-pushing, the switching to new modes, paying attention to harvesting, listening to pit instructions on the details of vehicle operation, all the finicky things they must do to maximize their speed.

 

In my opinion a driver likes to follow the seat of his pants, let his ergocentration flow, balance the car with the pedals and the wheel, reach the edge of adhesion without having to recall his teammate's trace print-out, etc.

 

Sure they will go a little faster doing all the peripheral stuff, but it can't be fun.

[Risil]

Constructive criticism, DC, constructive criticism

[tifosiMac]

My eyes must be deceiving me because if I ignore the noise I don't see the cars being "dumbed down" at all. Bit less downforce, bit slower overall? Who cares, it's great that these things aren't planted. They've even got more power now when all the hybrid gizmos are working.

I'm sure you are not wrong in your opinion much like me

[Guizotia]

Let's turn this around: What F1 cars have the drivers been happy with in, say, the last 10 years?  Does such a thing as a perfect car exist?  What are the drivers looking for?

[ollebompa]

I think they feel the cars are too slow.

Edited by ollebompa, 03 June 2014 - 12:48.

[grichka]

Didn't Hamilton say that 2007/08 cars were more demanding to drive than this's year ones? I think he did.

[thuGG]

Well without being nasty or contentious, drivers have a choice, drive in a different series, Endurance, rallying, DTM, Indy car, whatever, no one forces them to drive in F1 the same as no one forces fans to watch F1, it is what it is, for better or worse.

Peace

 

Yeah, I also think that drivers should be mindless robots without an opinion.

Also, yeah they should brake contracts with their teams and "drive in a different series, Endurance, rallying, DTM, Indy car, whatever".

Edited by thuGG, 03 June 2014 - 13:03.

[pingu666]

i quite like the current cars body language, but i can imagine some drivers miss the ebd, and the fiddling with settings is pretty high right now too

[Fastcake]

Do you want to tell us why the drivers are unhappy DC?

[Paco]

Everyone knows this era sucks for drivers. The cars are simply to slow, to electronic driven. Pretty soon we'll have drones for f1 cars driven by some guy in a trailer far far away from the track. How to do you fix it without becoming old fashion ie get rid of fuel injection and carbon brakes and quickshift sequential gearboxes..thats the real problem.

[BillyWhizz]

Well considering i am relatively new and have made very few posts on any subject some people must be very thin skinned if my views annoy them so much, do i give a monkeys, not really.

 

 

 

And where did i say they were, my point was no one forces these driver who are allegedly missing the "pure" racing of the last cars to actually drive this years cars, i have yet to see a driver being manhandled into the cockpit or being coerced.

 

Read your own copy. Sheesh.

[Slartibartfast]

Yeah, I also think that drivers should be mindless robots without an opinion.
Also, yeah they should brake contracts with their teams and "drive in a different series, Endurance, rallying, DTM, Indy car, whatever".

Yes, those poor exploited things. Maybe they should get paid better for having to do such a terrible job that absolutely nobody else wants to do.

[Atreiu]

Nearly all F1 pilots have monstruous egos, more or less. Can't take them THAT seriously. Still, after becoming young millionairs, what really does stop them from packing up and leaving for other racing series?

Edited by Atreiu, 03 June 2014 - 13:38.

[thuGG]

Yes, those poor exploited things. Maybe they should get paid better for having to do such a terrible job that absolutely nobody else wants to do.

 

So if the cars became less fun to drive for them, they have to shut up? Drivers can't say anything because "OMG they're complaining, they can race elsewhere, blah blah blah". They're humans, they express their feelings and opinions, that's good. 

[AlmightyGod]

Okay. So all the Drivers agreed to make Coulthard their spokesperson too much of a wimp to say it to the media?. On another note this noise and engine debate is getting stale. The world is moving on, its all about the environment, efficiency is the latest fad. F1 had to do something to stay relevant and hybrid units are the way to go. So coulthard and his overpaid buddies can get a day job if they don't like it and like a wise man once said ...............Tough luck!

Edited by AlmightyGod, 03 June 2014 - 13:55.

[thuGG]

Okay. So all the Drivers agreed to make Coulthard their spokesperson too much of a wimp to say it to the media?. 

 

Which driver goes to the media with anything? It's media going to the drivers, not the other way around. And if media didn't ask such question, then we don't know nothing about it. DC probably asked a few guys and shared the knowledge. Can't believe how some of you are overreacting.

[AlmightyGod]

Which driver goes to the media with anything? It's media going to the drivers, not the other way around. And if media didn't ask such question, then we don't know nothing about it. DC probably asked a few guys and shared the knowledge. Can't believe how some of you are overreacting.

You don't have to go the media to say anything you can use a media, twitter?, facebook?. FYI some drivers notably vettel was asked about this same topic and he branded the current regulations/engine sh*t. That's why its tiring and some ex f1 drivers have criticized the current regulations. The engines are here to stay and if you don't want to drive the cars you are being paid hundreds of 1000s and in some cases millions to drive, then.........Tough luck

Edited by AlmightyGod, 03 June 2014 - 14:05.

[tifosiMac]

Okay. So all the Drivers agreed to make Coulthard their spokesperson too much of a wimp to say it to the media?. On another note this noise and engine debate is getting stale. The world is moving on, its all about the environment, efficiency is the latest fad. F1 had to do something to stay relevant and hybrid units are the way to go. So coulthard and his overpaid buddies can get a day job if they don't like it and like a wise man once said ...............Tough luck!

I think DC was commenting from his position of having access to drivers opinions throughout the paddock rather than being an official spokesperson. 

 

Some of the opinions here saying drivers should go to another series if they don't like it suggests we don't like them sharing an opinion that we don't agree with? My view is they are just as entitled to have an opinion on it as the fans who watch and are perhaps in a good position to judge seeing as they are the individuals driving the racings cars. As much as we'd like F1 to be exactly how we want it and for the drivers to be PR guys who dance on command, it doesn't take away the basic right they have to offer an opinion on their profession.

[RonnyRonny]

Which drivers do we think DC might have spoke to?

JB, Vettel?

[AlmightyGod]

I think DC was commenting from his position of having access to drivers opinions throughout the paddock rather than being an official spokesperson. 

 

Some of the opinions here saying drivers should go to another series if they don't like it suggests we don't like them sharing an opinion that we don't agree with? My view is they are just as entitled to have an opinion on it as the fans who watch and are perhaps in a good position to judge seeing as they are the individuals driving the racings cars. As much as we'd like F1 to be exactly how we want it and for the drivers to be PR guys who dance on command, it doesn't take away the basic right they have to offer an opinion on their profession.

Its clear that my sarcasm regarding Coulthard being the spokesperson wasn't detected 

[tifosiMac]

Its clear that my sarcasm regarding Coulthard being the spokesperson wasn't detected 

It was, we invented it.

[Seanspeed]

He also says that the fans have every right to complain about the noise: "If you went to see the Rolling Stones and they came out and said tonight we're only doing an acoustic set because we're getting old and don't want all the noise then the crowd wouldn't be very happy and rightly so."

That's kind of a bad example cuz a lot of people would love that.

I'd say its more like going to a concert and them coming out and saying, "We've got a baby napping in the back, so we'll have to turn down the volume to room level, sorry guys and THANK YOU SPRINGFIELD!" "sshhh" "Sorry."

[Tuxy]

This is getting boring now...

 

I'm getting bored of F1's inability to reconcile its identity.

Edited by Tuxy, 03 June 2014 - 14:19.

[Spillage]

Good. I want the cars to be horrible to drive. I want the drivers to be working hard all the time - that's a good thing and I'm sure it ultimately makes success much more rewarding. Unless the drivers' complaints are rooted in safety concerns then, with the utmost respect for their talents, they should just get on and drive the things.

Edited by Spillage, 03 June 2014 - 14:20.