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Debbie does Fort Worth: Indycars at the Firestone 600


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#1 Risil

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 23:02

Very Sensible Indycar Series Brought to you by Verizon

 

Round 8 of 18: Texas Motor Speedway

 

Oh boy!

 

nixon_lbj_dirksen.jpg

(Mail your best captions to Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In, care of 1968)

 

Track length: 1.5 miles

Number of laps: 248

But that makes: 372 miles

So why is it: It's in kilometres.

Lap record: 236.68 mph / 5 lateral Gs (Paul Tracy, Reynard-Honda)

 

Everything, they say, is bigger in Texas. President Lyndon Johnson, standing at six foot five, was so big that Bobby Kennedy knew about his intention not to seek re-election before his own feet did. Other big things from Texas include cattle, Houston, Big Oil and the state of Texas itself.

 

But for those of us who happen to be European, Asian or Miscellaneous, and whose first and only experience of Texas was Texas BBQ-sauce flavoured Pringles, the only relevant feature of Texas is of course Texas Motor Speedway in Fort Worth. There is also the remarkably dangerous Houston street course which the Indycars visit later this month but we can safely ignore it for the time being, if not forever.

 

The first thing for you to get your head around is that despite everything, or indeed Everything, being Bigger in Texas, Texas Motor Speedway is not. It's deceptively medium-sized.

 

The second thing is that it's going to be at night. Night in Texas, so that's some sort of super-night in Europe. Seriously man even the race broadcast doesn't start till 1am UK time. I'm declaring this one a pyjama race.

 

Bacon-Texas-Motor-Speedway.jpg

 

The third thing? Well it's an oval I guess. You must know the drill by now. Only turn left. No “technical” sections, which is to say the sections which require the less exciting kinds of driving skill like braking and changing gears. First three quarters of the race are meaningless, like a weekend in the summer holidays or indeed a long stretch of unemployment.

 

Thou hast teased me long enough, English. Whence might I find the race schedule?

Below. It's a two-day event, like you care. All times Central (read: Texas, -6 hours time).

 

Friday, June 6

10.00-11.15: Indycar first practice

14.00-15.30: Indycar second practice, or qualifying or whatever

18.45-19.15: tiny Indycar final nighttime practice

20.00: What? NASCAR Truck race?

 

Saturday, June 7

12.00-19.30: Time passes.

19:30: Firestone Indycar oval race for 600 kilometres is go! Go!

 

I can't remember whether Texas sucks or not

You're not alone, brave stooge. Texas 2012 was a proper barnburner of a race, whereas Texas 2013 was like watching a film under the false impression that there's going to be this huge twist at the end where Valhalla burns and deities get twilighted, only to discover during the credits, after the MPAA logo has been and gone, that maybe you'd got it confused with The Godfather or something.

 

2012 saw everyone fighting for grip, and strong performances from Graham Rahal and Will Power before they were taken out of contention by a crash and a penalty respectively. In 2013 Firestone brought some odd tyres to the race and Helio Castroneves pretty much disappeared off to record his first win of the year. If you think that sounds pretty much how Detroit played out last weekend, you'll forgive me for writing pretty much the same thing week by week in these threads.

 

More matter, with less art

Truth is no one knows what sort of racing we'll get on Saturday night. That's one reason to stay up and watch, although as the class of 2013 will testify, it's a bit of a shit one. Better to focus on words like “on”, “the ragged” and “edge”, which seem to come up a lot whenever a driver talks about what it feels like to drive an Indycar around Texas.

 

Some of the reasons for this, I'm guessing, are historical. One of the special little horrors of 2011's Las Vegas disaster is that there's an alternative universe – one of millions admittedly – where that kind of thing happened every weekend. The close-packed, throttle-wide-open racing that the bozos at HQ trumpeted as evidence of the IRL's superior “product” was such a frequent visitor to Texas that it had its own reserved seats (but not in the front row, natch). There's also the wariness every open-wheel fan attaches to Fort Worth after the totally-correct-decision-coming-after-a-string-of-totally-wrong-ones that was the 2001 CART near-miss.

 

So from 2012 onwards the game at Texas has been to force teams to run comically low levels of downforce and cackle as they slip around like some sort of woodland animal on ice. In 2012 the victims were the drivers, who spent the night correcting slide after slide when they weren't crashing into the wall in fast but pointedly single-automobile accidents. In 2013 it was the tyres, and the racing, that suffered. Lap times from one end of a stint to the other looked like they came from different sports, and Castroneves, who handled his tyres best and had a slightly illegal floor, dominated.

 

scott-dixon-texas-crash.jpg

 

There was a tyre test in April but aside from two facts – Scott Dixon was quickest and that it's even harder to drive with 20 mph winds gusting around you – we people on the outside didn't learn much. Expect a lot of pre-race fannying around with wicker bills as the series tries to give enough downforce to keep the tyres happy, but keep enough of it off to stop “the wankers at the back”, as Will Power terms them, from coming to the front.

 

Did someone say wicker bill?

Yes. Not to be confused with Wicker Bill, which is what Texans fill with Yankees and West Coast Democrats before burning him at the State Fair.

 

640px-Big_Tex_fire.2_retouched.jpg

 

Montoya watch

Juan Montoya, fresh from his fine for being underweight at Detroit (bet he's framed it and sent it to Ron Dennis), is excited and apprehensive about the weekend. Here's a quote from Autosport's paywalled but excellent article about his Indycar return, written in preview of the Indy 500:

 

"The big ovals are fine," Montoya says. "I think I'm going to struggle on the small ovals. We'll see when we get there. But I have a lot of balls, so bravery is not an issue.

 

"We went testing at Texas, and I was a little concerned because the car was a handful. I went into Turn 1 and the thing is snapping down the straight, and you're trying to go in there wide open, and I'm like, 'I know these guys are going to be running wide open so I'd better run wide open'.

 

"Then when we got to the lunch break I found out I was the only guy going wide-open."

 

Tough bastard!

 

Any other business

Jim McElreath, a name which is sure to mist the eyes of anyone who's spent a day on Youtube watching old Indy 500 broadcasts, is going to be giving starters' orders on Saturday. Wanker Will Power seems to have transferred his curse to Jack the lad Hawksworth, and leads the championship from a young-looking Helio Castroneves and All-American Klutz Ryan Hunter-Reay. Bruton Smith has not yet made his annual statement that he doesn't really see a future for Indycars at his track but it's surely only a matter of time.


Edited by Risil, 05 June 2014 - 16:56.


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#2 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 23:39

Hold on. Are they not doing qualifying?



#3 Watkins74

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 23:49

Hold on. Are they not doing qualifying?

 

I believe the 2nd Practice listed above is really Qualifying.



#4 HaydenFan

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 00:27

If the tires are consistent, I think qualifying will really say little. 

 

Not one of RHR's best circuits, but hopefully he can turn that around. While he is far from out of the championship, he can't afford another run outside the top 10. But saying that, I fully expect Helio to crush all comers as he is one of the best drivers at the circuit (16 starts 4 wins (record) 1 pole 5 podiums 12 top 10). 



#5 Afterburner

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 00:43

Will probably stay up to watch this one... seeing as I've got nothing better to do Saturday night at 8 PM. :well:

#6 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 00:54

I'm old, I'm happy to be watching Indycar at 8pm on a Saturday. Especially a race that will run relatively quickly. 



#7 teejay

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 01:34

I visited Texas last year, so this feels like a home race, and by home race I mean I just want Montoya to win.



#8 Afterburner

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 03:05

I'm old, I'm happy to be watching Indycar at 8pm on a Saturday. Especially a race that will run relatively quickly.

Oh, I'm not saying I'm not happy watching IndyCar--just that I'd prefer to watch it with friends in person as well as on here, and that's probably not gonna happen at 8PM on a Saturday as most people all find better things to do around then. :p

#9 teejay

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 03:08

8pm Sat = 7am Sunday for me... might get up early for it.



#10 Andrew Hope

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 04:58

Be honest: who secretly misses twin races at Texas?



#11 Victor_RO

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 06:02

8pm Texas = 3am on Sunday here. Will be up at 3-3:30, but not to watch the race sadly, it'll be to head to the airport and fly to France.



#12 king_crud

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 07:17

race is on BT Sport for those in the UK, I've just set mine to record



#13 PayasYouRace

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 07:24

I find it amazing that with Indycars getting faster and faster with the DW12, that they've been able to find a fairly good compromised for these cookie cutters. The pre-2012 cars were getting ridiculous and I never want to see another Las Vegas (seriously what were they thinking) and yet with cars approaching CART levels of performance they've found something that seems to work for Texas.

 

 

Be honest: who secretly misses twin races at Texas?

 

I didn't really notice.



#14 teejay

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 07:25

Things I miss about Texas

 

Concrete Cowboy

 

Baby Dolls



#15 Diablobb81

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 07:34

Sad thing is that indy hates europeans with those starting times. :p



#16 Sheepmachine

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 08:26

I will be giving this race a miss. 1:30am-4:00am is just a bit to late for me. Might catch the rerun though.. :)

#17 Vitesse2

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 09:27

 

 

nixon_lbj_dirksen.jpg

(Mail your best captions to Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In, care of 1968)

 

Say goodnight, Dick ...

I will be giving this race a miss. 1:30am-4:00am is just a bit to late for me. Might catch the rerun though.. :)

Me too, given that there's an Eff One race in Canuckistan on Sunday with the chance of possibly seeing a groundhog run over. This would probably be a full course yellow in IndyCar, with the sweepers out in case there might be a tiny bit of groundhog shit on track - if I was this groundhog I'd have at least pissed myself ...

 

 

With luck they might even burn Justin Bieber. Not in effigy either.

 

UK reruns are BT Sport 2 at 1215 on Sunday and ESPN on Monday at 0900. Shouldn't be too hard to avoid the result ... :lol:



#18 OvDrone

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 09:54

I have to give it a miss, unfortunately. All day (and night 'til the sun ****ing shines, my god my eyes) Saturday is the last 'bonanza holy ****, it's three weeks and a half 'til my bachelor's degree and I don't know what I'm doing and I still have three exams left, we panic now' party. 

 

At least I'll make the whole of Texas happy, 'cause there's gonna be a big ass BBQ. YEEEEHAAA. *whimper*

 

But I'll be here on Sunday for them effonez and turnleftcar (seriously **** Nascar at Pocono), as well as some European bullshit like a race or two of WTCC, BTCC and Superbike. 

 

We. Roland Garros. Stanley Cup. PANIC. Now.


Edited by OvDrone, 05 June 2014 - 10:00.


#19 jonpollak

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 10:52

I'm old,

 

 

tumblr_inline_n5zkzhuQnx1sqtqnt.gif

 

 

 

 

Say goodnight, Dick ...

 
tumblr_mg8ciiUvMY1ram4r5o1_500.gif
 
 
 
Jp


Edited by jonpollak, 05 June 2014 - 10:56.


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#20 Peat

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 11:27

Sunday morning breakfast fodder for me. 

 

I've hit 30 now, disrupting my sleep pattern destroys me. I'm already scheduled to do so for Le Mans next weekend (Who am I kidding? I'll be fast akip on the sofa by midnight....) so I'll give this one a miss. I can't read spoilers in my sleep, right?



#21 Prost1997T

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 11:43

There's another re-run at 04:00 Wednesday (ESPN), should you miss the others.



#22 Lemnpiper

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 12:10

  Nixon is telling LBJ & Ev Dirksen  he doubts Gallant Men will be as bit a hit as doin a remake of "Wild Thing" 



#23 HaydenFan

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 13:30

Be honest: who secretly misses twin races at Texas?

 

Think it was just you. Just an excuse for the series to run a bunch of races at only a handful of venues. Would like to see 17-18 races at 17-18 racetracks. Too much to ask for? 

 

I find it amazing that with Indycars getting faster and faster with the DW12, that they've been able to find a fairly good compromised for these cookie cutters. The pre-2012 cars were getting ridiculous and I never want to see another Las Vegas (seriously what were they thinking) and yet with cars approaching CART levels of performance they've found something that seems to work for Texas.

 

 

They really aren't though. Closer of the street circuit (roughly 1.5 seconds off the DP-01 @ Long Beach), and, but on the ovals, especially Texas, CART in 2001 was 14 mph faster in terms of the pole (22.854 seconds @ 233.447 mph) than the average of the two laps of qualifying 219.182 by Power last year (b/c I cannot find lap by lap qualifying times). 

 

Even when in the IRL days where you had 230 mph laps at Indy, at Texas they were still at least 10 mph off what CART had managed to do in 2001. 

 

I think Vegas was a fluke. You look at the other ovals for the last few years in IndyCar, after the Kenny Brack crash at Texas and the cars getting airborne was some frequency, and they had spread the field out a bit. Problem with Vegas '11 was that unlike Texas '01 w/ CART, the drivers still decided to race, even though many felt it was going to be dangerous. 



#24 Option1

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 13:32

8pm Texas = like 2014 here.

 

Think I'll be asleep by the time it's on.

 

Neil



#25 Prost1997T

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 13:43

Long Beach's layout changed over the years, the actual times were within a few tenths for the current version (2008 CCWS vs 2013 Indycar). The times at Mid-Ohio were virtually the same as CART, because these cars corner better. Switching to methanol would allow an instant 100hp more on the engines and blow the lap records away. As for CART at Texas....well, that cancellation was the beginning of the end for them.



#26 PayasYouRace

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 14:10

 

They really aren't though. Closer of the street circuit (roughly 1.5 seconds off the DP-01 @ Long Beach), and, but on the ovals, especially Texas, CART in 2001 was 14 mph faster in terms of the pole (22.854 seconds @ 233.447 mph) than the average of the two laps of qualifying 219.182 by Power last year (b/c I cannot find lap by lap qualifying times). 

 

Even when in the IRL days where you had 230 mph laps at Indy, at Texas they were still at least 10 mph off what CART had managed to do in 2001. 

 

I think Vegas was a fluke. You look at the other ovals for the last few years in IndyCar, after the Kenny Brack crash at Texas and the cars getting airborne was some frequency, and they had spread the field out a bit. Problem with Vegas '11 was that unlike Texas '01 w/ CART, the drivers still decided to race, even though many felt it was going to be dangerous. 

 

These DW12s are seriously quick and are similar to the CART (that's CART, not Champ Car) cars. I'm talking the Lolas and Reynards that would have raced at Texas. Forget the DP-01, that was a brilliant road-course machine. Yet they've successfully limited the DW12 to a safe speed around Texas. It just goes to show that CART could have made Texas work if they'd done it right.

 

Doing a like for like comparison. Long Beach pole this year was 1:07.8. CART did 1:08.5 in 2001.

 

Vegas was a bit of disaster in the making, but it was still a 1.5 mile oval with 20ish degrees of banking that the cars were flat out all the way.



#27 Jim Thurman

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 15:00

Be honest: who secretly misses twin races at Texas?

 

Is the answer Will Power?  ;)



#28 paulb

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 15:05

I record the race since Saturday night TV control is beyond my husband powers.



#29 Woody3says

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 16:24

Just have to let you fellas know that these IC threads are by FAR the most enjoyable. I am laughing my ass off at the intro......cheers folks!

 

 

 

 

 

Much love by way of the home of Rahr Brewery



#30 Andrew Hope

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 17:49

Just have to let you fellas know that these IC threads are by FAR the most enjoyable. I am laughing my ass off at the intro......cheers folks!

 

 

 

 

 

Much love by way of the home of Rahr Brewery

 

Risil brings the heat each and every day.



#31 HaydenFan

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 18:26

These DW12s are seriously quick and are similar to the CART (that's CART, not Champ Car) cars. I'm talking the Lolas and Reynards that would have raced at Texas. Forget the DP-01, that was a brilliant road-course machine. Yet they've successfully limited the DW12 to a safe speed around Texas. It just goes to show that CART could have made Texas work if they'd done it right.

 

 

But we all know CART wasn't run by the brightest guys either. Plus I don't think CART going to Texas was about being similar to the IRL at the time. Was the first venue CART scheduled that had the IRL spec cars racing in the same year. CART wanted to obliterate any time the IRL could set there. And they did. I think the people at CART saw the writing on the wall and with Ganassi and Montoya going over to race the 500 the year before and Penske announcing long before the CART schedule came out that they were running the 500. 



#32 Risil

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 18:40

These DW12s are seriously quick and are similar to the CART (that's CART, not Champ Car) cars. I'm talking the Lolas and Reynards that would have raced at Texas. Forget the DP-01, that was a brilliant road-course machine. Yet they've successfully limited the DW12 to a safe speed around Texas. It just goes to show that CART could have made Texas work if they'd done it right.

 

Aren't the current turbos limited to something like 600hp on ovals? Not sure whether you could've leaned out the CART V8s that much.



#33 PayasYouRace

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 18:50

But we all know CART wasn't run by the brightest guys either. Plus I don't think CART going to Texas was about being similar to the IRL at the time. Was the first venue CART scheduled that had the IRL spec cars racing in the same year. CART wanted to obliterate any time the IRL could set there. And they did. I think the people at CART saw the writing on the wall and with Ganassi and Montoya going over to race the 500 the year before and Penske announcing long before the CART schedule came out that they were running the 500. 

 

You won't find any argument there. That's the sad thing about it. I think CART were more interested in showing up the IRL than actually putting on a good show.

 

Aren't the current turbos limited to something like 600hp on ovals? Not sure whether you could've leaned out the CART V8s that much.

 

I can't remember the specifics of their engines back then. But I'm sure a bit of engine and aero cleverness could have brought speeds in check.



#34 Prost1997T

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 19:26

I just looked this up and discovered that Paul Tracy (aka the rolling wreck) holds the lap record for TMS. :drunk:



#35 Risil

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 19:27

I can't remember the specifics of their engines back then. But I'm sure a bit of engine and aero cleverness could have brought speeds in check.

 

To be honest even if I could remember the specifics I couldn't interpret them. But I know that in 2001 all the talk was about a new engine formula that would cut horsepower to the 700-750 range. The inability to do that in a way that Honda, Toyota and Ford could agree on was a big part of CART's breakdown.

 

Aero cleverness was sort of a symptom of the underlying intractability of the engine problem. It seemed like every year from 1997 onwards they tried a new aero spec at the short and the long ovals, and they rarely made the racing better. There was no shortage of smart people offering solutions. My personal opinion is that CART's biggest problems were political, and like many political problems the smart people made things worse.


Edited by Risil, 05 June 2014 - 19:44.


#36 Risil

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 19:28

I just looked this up and discovered that Paul Tracy (aka the rolling wreck) holds the lap record for TMS. :drunk:

 

It was an age of wonders all right.



#37 PayasYouRace

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 19:33

I just looked this up and discovered that Paul Tracy (aka the rolling wreck) holds the lap record for TMS. :drunk:

 

I think even his worst detractors can credit him with holding it together for a single lap.  :lol:



#38 Victor_RO

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 19:51

Aleshin testing out potential weapons for a Russian invasion of the USA?  :lol:

 

https://twitter.com/...636768935809024



#39 Risil

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 21:08

Here's a nice race preview from David Malsher, Racer.com's own Jimmy Olsen. He fancies Marco, Montoya and Kimball. Did you know Kimball had a podium last time out at Detroit? That one sort of passed me by.



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#40 jonpollak

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 21:48

Aleshin testing out potential weapons for a Russian invasion of the USA?  :lol:

 

https://twitter.com/...636768935809024

BpY-vRlCIAAd467.jpg

 

Oh Noes ...It's a full on Team Schmidt assault.

Heads Up Willy P !!!!

 

Strangely reminiscent of a certain thread title... neutered for the good of all God's little chillun.

 

Jp


Edited by jonpollak, 05 June 2014 - 21:52.


#41 HaydenFan

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 22:32

Some kind of joke in the Pagenaud pic. 

 

stens474a1c6b42ea39e.jpg

 

Also funny that this gun demonstration is occurring in Texas. One would think that those weapons would be much more needed last week. 


Edited by HaydenFan, 05 June 2014 - 22:34.


#42 Andrew Hope

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 04:24

It would be more appropriate if Pag was wielding a FAMAS.

 

Still a little late for the NRA Kill Your Children 5000...



#43 PayasYouRace

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 10:08

Good news: http://www.autosport...t.php/id/114292

 

Indycar reverting to a spec closer to 2012 for this race.



#44 Andrew Hope

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 15:36

Got some overtime on Saturday (there are many many Camaros to build, you see) but I should be home in plenty of time for 8pm EST.

 

I bought a Will Power die cast. I was worried it would get all banged up and broken in the mail, but then I thought that's just realistic.



#45 Sheepmachine

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 15:40

Got some overtime on Saturday (there are many many Camaros to build, you see) but I should be home in plenty of time for 8pm EST.

I bought a Will Power die cast. I was worried it would get all banged up and broken in the mail, but then I thought that's just realistic.


It just needs to make a desperate lunge for your letterbox now and will be 100% realistic! :p

#46 PayasYouRace

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 16:12

 

 

I bought a Will Power die cast. 

 

Which one? What scale?



#47 Andrew Hope

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 16:15

Which one? What scale?

 

Well, *going* to buy this weekend. 1:24

 

https://shop.indiana...ndy 500-Diecast

 

In oval trim. Perfect.



#48 Prost1997T

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 16:22

Biggest surprise of practice has to be Huertas P7 at 216.313mph.



#49 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 16:22

Mmmm.....oval trim. Amirite?



#50 PayasYouRace

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 16:23

Well, *going* to buy this weekend. 1:24

 

https://shop.indiana...ndy 500-Diecast

 

In oval trim. Perfect.

 

Looks good. I wouldn't mind a DW12. Last Indycar I got was Wheldon's Indy 2011 car in 1/18. A beauty, and very poignant too now.