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Massa and perez collision


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565 replies to this topic

Poll: Who's fault? (419 member(s) have cast votes)

Who's fault

  1. Massa (102 votes [24.34%])

    Percentage of vote: 24.34%

  2. Perez (193 votes [46.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 46.06%

  3. Neither - it was a racing incident (124 votes [29.59%])

    Percentage of vote: 29.59%

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#1 micktosin

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 19:50

Who is at fault between Perez and Massa? It does look like massa



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#2 LeMans86

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 19:54

Racing incident. Suddenly slowing FI caught him by surprise.

Unfortunate racing incident, but it provided an exciting and cool finish :)

#3 ed24f1

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 19:55

Perez edged to the left. So first instinct was it was his fault for moving in the braking area.

 

But I will need to see more replays later.



#4 Timstr11

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 19:56

Massa too greedy.He should've been a bit more cautious. He threw away a good finish.



#5 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 19:57

Obviously Perez, he was too much to the left. Just look at him and Vettel.



#6 Disgrace

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 19:57

Actually I have changed my mind since initially seeing the incident. What was Perez doing defending with only front brakes? Massa left no margin for error, but this doesn't excuse Perez moving around in the braking area. It wasn't even a serious attempt to move to the left hand side of the circuit - inexcusable really.


Edited by Disgrace, 08 June 2014 - 20:02.


#7 Diablobb81

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 19:57

Looked like Perez moved over.



#8 Massa

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 19:58

Perez move to the left was not good.



#9 Francesc

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 19:58

Perez turned left too late, changed his line suddenly.



#10 george1981

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 19:58

Massa too greedy.He should've been a bit more cautious. He threw away a good finish.

I think it was 50/50 BUT Massa should have kept a cool head and got Perez later on.



#11 ed24f1

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 19:59

Whether Massa came in too fast or not is not relevant, it's not acceptable to be moving like that in the braking areas.



#12 xmoonrakerx

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 19:59

He could have killed vettel there



#13 micktosin

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 19:59

I think it was 50/50 BUT Massa should have kept a cool head and got Perez later on.

I wouldn't call it 50/50 as Massa looked a bit too greedy and desperate from the little footage presented so far.



#14 Racer44

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:00

Perez was having brakes problems so he hit them much too soon which caused Massa to hit him.



#15 Fabien Pousset

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:00

Jacques Villeneuve called for Perez's licence to be revoked. 



#16 brr

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:00

Whether Massa came in too fast or not is not relevant, it's not acceptable to be moving like that in the braking areas.

 

If that was a braking area, why didn't Massa brake at all?



#17 charly0418

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:01

Jacques Villeneuve called for Perez's licence to be revoked. 

 

LOL



#18 Okyo

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:01

Would say both. Perez had no brakes and did a slight move to Massa when he was moving in. Gladly no one got hurt.



#19 sosidge

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:03

Massa a late move, Perez a late defence. At 200mph, misjudgements get exposed quickly. Racing incident, albeit a big one!

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#20 Okyo

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:03

 

If that was a braking area, why didn't Massa brake at all?

He started, but as he hit Perez rear, his front wheels got lifted and the brakes could do crap.



#21 BobbyRicky

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:04

Jacques Villeneuve called for Perez's licence to be revoked. 

 

 

Jack Vilenuf should know all about those kind of antics from his NASCAR-outings.

 

Its quite hilarious this: imagine it was Maldonado barging into the corner like a swashbuckler instead of Massa. Would it still be Perez fault then? i think not.



#22 selespeed

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:04

who cares...perez should have won this,,.



#23 charly0418

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:04

It was a racing incident, all cause by Perez brakes being gone



#24 Paul084

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:05

Originally it looked like the incident was Massa's fault but after seeing the replay again it looks like Perez went defensive quite late but it's hard to tell due to camera angles.


Edited by Paul084, 08 June 2014 - 20:06.


#25 redreni

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:06

For me, Perez moved in the braking zone. Otherwise there would have been no contact. It's something the stewards ought to look at because moving in the braking zone is hevily frowned upon and this accident is a textbook illustration of why.



#26 charly0418

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:06

Actually I just saw the aero cam, Perez clearley moves to the left more than he should



#27 Skinnyguy

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:06

Perez. He triangled way too much the braking zone, which is especially stupid with damaged brakes as the other car will always brake much later. If he wanted the inside, he should have defended earlier. He should have picked a side and commit to it, he changed his mind too late.



#28 Massa

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:06

Ok, i have seen the replay on sky, it's Perez fault. He have made a move on the left while Massa was already there, after that move, it was impossible to avoid the crash. But it was a hard race, Perez had no brake, we shouldn't blame him.



#29 ardbeg

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:07

From Perez in car it was clear he did not move towards Massa. Steering wheel straight until impact. One could claim he could have gone more right, but you can not demand from someone that they open the door at the last lap. Desperate move by Massa and entirely his fault.



#30 ed24f1

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:07

If that was a braking area, why didn't Massa brake at all?

 

Because contact took place at moment of commitment, right at the moment of braking, there is no evidence Massa missed his braking point.

 

Watch the onboard video, clear turn to the left from Perez



#31 Disgrace

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:09

From Perez in car it was clear he did not move towards Massa. Steering wheel straight until impact. One could claim he could have gone more right, but you can not demand from someone that they open the door at the last lap. Desperate move by Massa and entirely his fault.

 

Normally this is a solid argument, but the racing line is not a straight line going into turn one at Canada. Why is this different to defending in a "normal" straight braking area by turning?



#32 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:10

It's Perez's fault: Lauda said on RTL that Massa braked too late and moved right



#33 v@sh

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:10

Perez's fault IMO, he moved left too late to cover for the overtake just at the same time Massa had already started the move. Disappointing as it would have been a good haul of points for both drivers.

 

Vettel was lucky not to be taken out too.



#34 nosecone

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:11

Very likely Perez's fault. But nothing that needs a special punishment. Racing is dangerous. He got his fair penalty- throwing away a top5-result


Edited by nosecone, 08 June 2014 - 20:11.


#35 Massa

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:11



From Perez in car it was clear he did not move towards Massa. Steering wheel straight until impact. One could claim he could have gone more right, but you can not demand from someone that they open the door at the last lap. Desperate move by Massa and entirely his fault.

 

 

It's why it is his fault. There is a slight right hander before the braking zone, Perez with keeping his steering wheel straight was on the left while Massa was already there.

 

And when you have no brake, you don't close the door like that



#36 Tosh

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:13

Thank god they are okay! It was a really nasty incident.



#37 ed24f1

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:13

I wonder if Williams had told Massa that Perez had bad brakes, if so, that does tip it a little bit against him. But still, Perez straightening the wheel as though he was going to peek down inside of Vettel was not good.



#38 alfa1

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:16

Perez's fault.

 

Although I dont think he "turned left" as others say. Its more that he didnt follow the curve to the right as much as he should have done... see for example Vettel in front of him who stays right to the track edge.


Edited by alfa1, 08 June 2014 - 20:17.


#39 Jon83

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:17

I'm just glad they both appear to have walked away from this without serious injury. It was horrible to watch. 

 

I don't really care about attributing blame at the moment. 


Edited by Jon83, 08 June 2014 - 20:17.


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#40 ed24f1

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:18

More of a 'relative' turn to the left in that straightening up took him towards left of the track.



#41 BlackCat

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:19

Massa :down:



#42 Okyo

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:19

Massa did the same thing he has done when trying to overtake Vettel for the past few laps. Sadly, now it was a car that had no brakes and i'm guess Massa wasn't informed about it. Also Perez was trying to defend it, but not by turning the wheel,by going straight when the track curved to the right. Compare his trajectory with Vettels'. Calling it a racing incident.


Edited by Okyo, 08 June 2014 - 20:20.


#43 ensign14

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:20

Perez took Massa out by moving to his left in a straight line.  Asinine and dangerous move.

 

He should be banned for 3 races minimum and FI ordered to pay a fine to Williams.  The penalties in F1 are woeful and do not even begin to address the harm.  And it's been so ever since St Ayrton. 



#44 ardbeg

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:21

It's why it is his fault. There is a slight right hander before the braking zone, Perez with keeping his steering wheel straight was on the left while Massa was already there.

 

And when you have no brake, you don't close the door like that

Massa already there? Seriously...



#45 ardbeg

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:23

Perez's fault.

 

Although I dont think he "turned left" as others say. Its more that he didnt follow the curve to the right as much as he should have done... see for example Vettel in front of him who stays right to the track edge.

"Should have done"? Should he also have radioed in "Tell Massa he can pass left"?
 



#46 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:24

BpolmhjCIAAszM1.jpg

 

 

Seems like Felipe is OK (from Tumblr) #F1 #CanadianGP pic.twitter.com/fv0ar5gRP6



#47 toofast

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:27

Massa already there? Seriously...

 

Invisible nose extension



#48 Montie

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:27

I did pay attention on the onboard footage, but if Perez turns left he should differnately get some penalty points on his licens.

#49 LeMans86

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:28

BpolmhjCIAAszM1.jpg
 
 

Ashley‏@PurpleSectorF1

Seems like Felipe is OK (from Tumblr) #F1 #CanadianGP pic.twitter.com/fv0ar5gRP6

Keep the watch on for the sponsors!! :lol:

#50 Massa

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:28

Massa already there? Seriously...

Open your eyes.