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Massa and perez collision


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Poll: Who's fault? (419 member(s) have cast votes)

Who's fault

  1. Massa (102 votes [24.34%])

    Percentage of vote: 24.34%

  2. Perez (193 votes [46.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 46.06%

  3. Neither - it was a racing incident (124 votes [29.59%])

    Percentage of vote: 29.59%

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#101 Knot

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 21:04

100% Massa fault. There is no such thing as racing line when a driver is defending from others. Defending means precisely moving from racing line.

 

Hey, now, Massa precisely moved away from the racing line.

 

Too bad he was three feet in the air and in a cloud of carbon fiber dust when he did it, but at least he did it.  :lol:



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#102 mangeliiito

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 21:06

Saw a replay now, from what I can see Massas steering wheel was moving before the camera cut, Perez wasn't. Hard to tell though, such small margins. Wouldn't wanna be a steward now.

Edit: my brain has forgotten how to spell today.

Edited by mangeliiito, 08 June 2014 - 21:10.


#103 ATM

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 21:06

So, reprimands, maybe some 5-places penalties for the next race, but I wouldn't go that far to call for a licence revoked. 

If Maldonado still has his license after the idiotic crash with Gutierrez, then Perez should keep his license too. 


Edited by ATM, 08 June 2014 - 21:07.


#104 AlexS

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 21:08

Completing my post: many drivers prefer to brake in curve while others prefer to brake earlier to have a faster acceleration. All racing is full of moves in "braking zone" that like i said is not a fixed zone that depends on conditions, car and pilot strategy(mostly tire related)/preference.



#105 Hanzo

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 21:14

I don't have a strong opinion yet, but I am missing badly a poll. Please someone add it.



#106 coppilcus

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 21:22

Racing incident... It's clear that Perez defend a bit late his position and Massa was extremely optimistic over the late braking in that corner, it could have ended in three race car incident and not just the Williams and the F India.

The video shows that at the exact moment Perez went straight to defend and Massa turned right quite fast as to avoid loosing the apex at a big margin and get the undercut by Sergio on the exit of turn one... a bad decision from both drivers, Sergio because of his brakes failure and Felipe because of his entry speed to the braking zone.

Hopefully they are both ok...

#107 D.M.N.

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 21:22

Poll added   :)



#108 froggy22

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 21:22

Not a nice accident to see for two drivers who have had head injuries in the past. I have to say that Perez was at fault for that crash, you can't move in the braking zone. It also looks like Perez had braking issues as well so he may have brake a bit earlier than expected.



#109 Beyond

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 21:24

totally massa's fault. perez made a slight movement but massa was sleeping just next to him and actually turned right instead of looking for the gap inside...



#110 Longtimefan

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 21:28

I'm still on the fence.

 

at the time it happened I thought it was Massa's fault, then I watched it 2-3 times and thought it was the fault of Perez, now I've watched it again and I'm unsure.

 

Perhaps just a racing incident



#111 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 21:30

FIA statement confirms that both Checo and Felipe have been discharged from the Hospital where they had been taken for precautionary checks.



#112 Heisenberg

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 21:31

Neither of these 2 are worth of ever becoming champions. Perez is in F1 for almost 4 years now and already made some silly errors, he's too hot headed. Massa is inconsistant, hardly does anything impressive, but when he does, he manages to screw up somehow. Perhaps a racing incident, after watching it a couple of times, but perhaps both had some fault in this incident if I think better... It could have been avoided.


Edited by Heisenberg, 08 June 2014 - 21:31.


#113 charly0418

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 21:33

I'm still on the fence.

 

at the time it happened I thought it was Massa's fault, then I watched it 2-3 times and thought it was the fault of Perez, now I've watched it again and I'm unsure.

 

Perhaps just a racing incident

 

yeah I agree, just saw it again and Massa moves to the right right before they touch. I dont know why both of them moved there



#114 Knot

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 21:34

Poll is a but lopsided; it needed an option for both at fault.



#115 Lan

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 21:36

I just can't believe so many people voted Perez :o

Moving to the left.... what? Stewards decisions have been strange sometimes, but there's no way Perez is getting any penalty, Massa on the other hand should.



#116 SophieB

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 21:36

 

FIA statement confirms that both Checo and Felipe have been discharged from the Hospital where they had been taken for precautionary checks.

 

 

I am relieved by that. The worst bit of watching motorsport is the twenty seconds or so after an impact where you wait to find out if you might have just watched someone die on live TV. Horrifying accident, glad both are okay.



#117 george1981

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 21:37

Having seen the overhead shot I think it's Perez's fault. The track turns to the right yet Perez doesn't follow it. This has the effect of him veering just into Massa's path and then braking.

It's a racing accident unworthy of a penalty but I'd put the blame with Perez.



#118 ATM

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 21:37

 

Poll is a but lopsided; it needed an option for both at fault.

 

 

...or maybe something with percentages. I would say something like fault 70% Perez (for moving like a sheep on the prairie) -30% Massa (for not taking all precautionary measures).


Edited by ATM, 08 June 2014 - 21:38.


#119 Skinnyguy

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 21:43

Perez decission making was terrible. He didn't defend the inside down the straight, and when he realized he was going to be outbraked he started moving across.

Triangling the braking zone in close proximity of another car is a no-no. Even more when the other car is way better under braking. If Perez wanted the inside he should have covered that side down the straight.

Massa did nothing wrong. He was laterally clear of Perez and braked later. Standard passing attempt. Perez moved across in his face. We didn't even get to see if Massa had chosen a good braking point because Perez put the car in his face and it's impossible reacting to that when you're braking hard.

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#120 artista

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 21:46

To me it looks a lot as the typical -and usually pretty nasty- accidents when the car behind doesn't know the difficulties of the car in front to brake.

#121 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 21:54

Five place grid penalty for Sergio Perez in Austria for causing the accident at the end of today's race with Felipe Massa, just announced



#122 Massa_f1

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 21:56

 

Five place grid penalty for Sergio Perez in Austria for causing the accident at the end of today's race with Felipe Massa, just announced

 

 

Seems the FIA think it was Perez's fault, not that it will sway any opinion in here.



#123 Jackmancer

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 21:57

Barrichello and Blundell had a very similar accident in the 1995 Silverstone Grand Prix:

http://www.dailymoti...el-crash-s_auto



#124 Disgrace

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 21:57

Classic stewarding; the relative penalties between Chilton and Perez do not do the latter's offence any justice whatsoever. At least they got the right driver I suppose.


Edited by Disgrace, 08 June 2014 - 21:59.


#125 Beyond

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 21:57

incredible decision to me



#126 Cyanide

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 21:57

Fair  :up:

 

After watching it a couple of times, Perez was clearly at fault. 



#127 Skinnyguy

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 21:58


David Croft @CroftyF1

Five place grid penalty for Sergio Perez in Austria for causing the accident at the end of today's race with Felipe Massa, just announced


Good decission.

#128 Nemo1965

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 21:58

Agreed. Has Perez said anything about the crash?



#129 Lights

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 21:59

I don't necessarily like either driver and I have a strong opinion on racing incidents and racing etiquette, but I can't vote other than racing incident. Neither driver does something particularly wrong but they happen to do it both simultaneously leading to contact. The fact that there is a bend to the right at the start of the braking area doesn't make it easier to judge, neither for them as for us in hindsight. 



#130 coppilcus

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 22:03

Bad decisions from both drivers at the exact same time...

Lame decision from the FIA.

#131 PayasYouRace

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 22:11

I'd say racing incident, though "caused" by Sergio's twitch. He obviously wasn't trying to block Felipe, but no reason for Massa to expect it.



#132 SpeedKing

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 22:12

Perez fault

Helicopter footage shows clearly Perez moving over Massa
http://globoesporte....do-baixo/1.html



#133 Peat

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 22:15

Checo picked his defensive line AS he broke. Massa was lining up for a move 1 car width from the racing line (which Perez was taking) and Perez took it away from him while braking early. Not alot Massa could do in that situation. Not the first bit of bone-headed driving from the Mexican and sure not to be the last.



#134 stewie

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 22:16

In my very humble opinion, they were both equally to blame. Perez for moving over slightly, Massa for going balls deep into the overtake with no sight to me of braking anytime soon, both drivers wanting to get the absolute best result with neither really prepared to give.

 

As I say, IMHO.



#135 AlexanderF1

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 22:22

 

Five place grid penalty for Sergio Perez in Austria for causing the accident at the end of today's race with Felipe Massa, just announced

 

in al honestly i think it should have been a worse penalty or points on the licence. intialy i thought it was massa misjudiging it but having seen videos concluded that perez moved in the braking zone as well as massa coming in real quick. really it was nasty racing incident  but because of the 27g putting there lives at risk then the penalty should have been a bit more(not banning him or whatever)



#136 Myrvold

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 22:23

By the way, is PĂ©rez all right? The car stopped so suddenly. Pretty frightening to see.


The worst thing in my mind, is the previous injury of Massa. I was strictly told to stop any kind of racing myself, due to the specialist told me: "The brain may heal from one hit like that, it's extremely extremely rare that it is able to heal from a second, much smaller impact".
 

Jacques Villeneuve also thinks he's a talented singer..

I... Own the album. I... Like it... 



#137 Paul084

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 22:25

in al honestly i think it should have been a worse penalty or points on the licence. intialy i thought it was massa misjudiging it but having seen videos concluded that perez moved in the braking zone as well as massa coming in real quick. really it was nasty racing incident  but because of the 27g putting there lives at risk then the penalty should have been a bit more(not banning him or whatever)

Can see the justification for why you'd think a higher penalty is needed but surely every time a driver steps in an F1 car there is an inherent risk?

 

edit: Personally I think that the penalties should get harsher for repeat offenses and be judged on a drivers intent or actions not the severity of the situation. Arguably Perez's actions in some situations have been dangerous and I think that when he starts to accept the blame for incidents rather than looking to shift it he will become a more complete driver. I'll be interested to hear both drivers opinions on what caused the crash.


Edited by Paul084, 08 June 2014 - 22:34.


#138 coppilcus

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 22:26

Though, Perez owed a few penalties from last season... hopefully he'll learn from this and remember he isn't fighting for the championship, but against his teammate, McLaren and Williams.

#139 Montie

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 22:28

How nobody gets any penalty points after this crash, as well as the Button/Perez collision and the Raikkonen move on Magnussen at the Loeb hairpin in Monaco. While Magnussen get two penalty point for hitting Raikkonen's rear tire in Malaysia after he misses the apex in turn one and runs wide, just to pull back on to the racing line cutting in front of Magnussen clipping his front wing is beyond me.



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#140 scheivlak

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 22:28

Perez fault

Helicopter footage shows clearly Perez moving over Massa
http://globoesporte....do-baixo/1.html

I've learned a few portuguese words from that but not much more......



#141 dweller23

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 22:32

How nobody gets any penalty points after this crash, as well as the Button/Perez collision and the Raikkonen move on Magnussen at the Loeb hairpin in Monaco. While Magnussen get two penalty point for hitting Raikkonen's rear tire in Malaysia after he misses the apex in turn one and runs wide, just to pull back on to the racing line cutting in front of Magnussen clipping his front wing is beyond me.

Yeah it's like FIA forgot they have those penalty points.



#142 SpeedKing

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 22:39

I've learned a few portuguese words from that but not much more......



#143 Risil

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 22:39

Moving about in braking zones is one of Perez's vices. I'm glad no one was hurt but a penalty makes perfect sense to me.

 

Bloody hell though, you'd have thought that Massa could've managed to overtake him.



#144 SpeedKing

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 22:39

Can't you watch the video?

#145 scheivlak

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 22:42

Can't you watch the video?

It says "o video nao pode ser exibido nessa regiao".....



#146 Junky

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 22:57

Barcelona 2012, Schumacher vs Bruno Senna: Schumacher gets a penalty.
Montreal 2014, Massa vs Perez: Perez gets a penalty.

Funny.



#147 Juan Kerr

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 22:57

South America was to blame.



#148 Seanspeed

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 22:58

Still haven't seen the incident except from a useless side view.

My initial reaction was that Massa was a bonehead, but if Perez moved over in the braking zone, that's a no-no.

Would like to see it myself to make up my mind.

Edited by Seanspeed, 08 June 2014 - 22:59.


#149 AlexisBT

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 23:00

Just saw the aerial reply of the clash. 100% Perez fault. He clearly moved left in the braking zone, there is no doubt he did that from the aerial view. There is no excuse for that imo. Penality well deserved.



#150 Lan

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 23:10

Hah, I guess I was totally wrong... gotta see some reps, since from tv broadcast I got no idea why Perez was deemed guilty.