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Massa and perez collision


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Poll: Who's fault? (419 member(s) have cast votes)

Who's fault

  1. Massa (102 votes [24.34%])

    Percentage of vote: 24.34%

  2. Perez (193 votes [46.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 46.06%

  3. Neither - it was a racing incident (124 votes [29.59%])

    Percentage of vote: 29.59%

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#351 Nonesuch

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 20:26

Perez drove with hardly any brakes left at the end of the race ...

 

It doesn't seem like that is true, as Autosport reported the following yesterday:

 

'"About two or three laps before the incident [on the final lap], he had a sensor failure which he reset - and resetting it was the issue," said [Chief Operating Officer Otmar] Szafnauer. "He had the problem and came on the radio and said: 'my brakes, my brakes'. We told him to reset the sensor, and in doing that, the Red Bulls were so close they got past. So resetting it was the problem, because when he reset it he was on it again."'


Edited by Nonesuch, 10 June 2014 - 20:27.


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#352 Buttoneer

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 20:30

The WTF1 blog managed to save it.

 

10363352_725615777496710_390539164753466

 

Beautiful :lol:

 

He's not even winning the new 'who was the driver of the race' poll either.



#353 Nemo1965

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 20:58

Exactly. And do not forget Sergios own words: "I was following the same line and braking patterns as in the previous laps and I just got hit from behind by Massa..."

This theory that he was trying to save Vettel from unpleasent surprises must be put to rest.

 

Well, thank you. That is an answer to my question.



#354 Mascalzone

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 23:05

I'm happy this accident happened (and obviously nobody got hurt): for some days all the fans have spoken about racing and not about stupid rules or cheating :drunk:



#355 ANF

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 23:30



It doesn't seem like that is true, as Autosport reported the following yesterday:

 

'"About two or three laps before the incident [on the final lap], he had a sensor failure which he reset - and resetting it was the issue," said [Chief Operating Officer Otmar] Szafnauer. "He had the problem and came on the radio and said: 'my brakes, my brakes'. We told him to reset the sensor, and in doing that, the Red Bulls were so close they got past. So resetting it was the problem, because when he reset it he was on it again."'

Oh, so there was nothing wrong with the car; he just veered across the track in the braking zone right in front of a car that was about to overtake. And then he and the team blamed the other driver with one of the stupidest tweets I've ever seen. That's ****ing brilliant.



#356 Buttoneer

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 23:33

Regardless of whose fault it is, this has become a bit of a PR mess for FI.  This is definitely one of those situations where they would be best not saying anything.



#357 Tsarwash

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 01:53

Why shouldn't he?
 
He stopped Massa from scoring points.  Essentially he ruined the whole point of Massa being in Canada.  So why should he not be forced to sit out one race as a more proportionate penalty?
 
In football if you commit a professional foul you miss the rest of that game and the next one.  If you **** someone you miss the rest of that game and the next three.  In rugby if you commit a bad foul you get the same sort of penalty.  You can be banned from an event in practically every sport on the planet.
 
The name of the game is motor racing.  Perez made it impossible for Massa to race him, and ultimately the rest of the field.  If drivers are sent the message that, if you screw someone's race, you will pay a proper penalty, then they won't do it.  Had Senna been banned for a season after Suzuka then we wouldn't have had Schumacher 1994.  Had Schumacher been banned for a season after 1994 then we wouldn't have had Schumacher 1997.  And so on. 
 
Drivers have already been seriously injured - or killed - because of dubious movings over.  It'll happen in F1 at some point unless someone does something about it; and someone as a result will sue the FIA for not taking it seriously.  And their evidence will be the slaps on the wrist for dangerous, potentially fatal, moves like Perez' today.

Look at the on board of Perez before the crash. He certainly didn't make any big turn of the steering wheel left. He certainly caused the crash, but it was definitely not a deliberate crash, nor was it deliberate weaving in a braking zone. And dragging Senna and Schumacher into EVERY incident that happens is just getting dull now.

#358 chrisj

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 02:03

Massa was never going to make a pass there. I'm not totally absolving Perez, because he's kind of an idiot, but Massa is the one who threw away a lot of points.



#359 CoolBreeze

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 08:26

Seems popular to put the blame on Massa just because it´s him (see all the comments after the impact yesterday). Shame on you guys :down: :down: :down:

 

If i were Massa, i would definitely give Perez a punch to knock some sense into him. It was such a stupid, big accident. Totally avoidable. Lucky Seb escaped. 



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#360 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 08:58

My heart sank when I saw this accident. I had a premonition earlier in the race that a really bad accident could happen if someone touched in that kink then speared someone turning left before the hairpin right. This so nearly happened, a lucky escape again for F1. I saw the tracks in the grass from another off (other series?) and it made me think how bad it could be.... then in an almost identical fashion to my premonition it happened. I'm not superstitious or anything like that but I almost knew it was going to happen  :eek: Massa's impact was awful but it could have easily been so much worse. That neither car became airborne during this wheel to wheel contact was a miracle. This could have been a double or triple fatality without much imagination needed.  :|

 

For what it's worth I believe Perez was to blame. He should have made sure he was as far right as possible. It's such a dangerous point on the track to risk any kind of hard racing of which he has done a lot in his F1 career so far. Yes, Massa was pushing the limits too but he easily left enough room for Perez and can't be expected to give him the full track when approaching a left hand corner, his only prerogative was to leave him enough room and he did that.

 

It's a really dangerous part of the Montreal circuit and as I much as I don't want the circuit to be changed in layout I think there are a couple of things they can do (I was thinking about it before the crash!).

 

- Straighten the right kink at the end of the pit straight as much as possible even if it means moving the right hand perimeter wall back. This will make it easier to stay right.

- Extend the pit wall with Armco right down to the entry of T1 (the 90deg left) to prevent cars that would otherwise have left the track, gone over the patch of grass and ended up T boning someone at high speed. It's better to crash into the back of a car than the side.



#361 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:18

I've fashioned a graphic that illustrates my thinking that Perez is definitely to blame. 

 

vwQasOm.jpg

 

The green line is the ideal racing line as proven by Vettel. I don't believe for once second Perez is following his normal line here, it's completely sub optimal to enter the left hander from near the middle of the track. He is a liar, he was taking a defensive line to try block a car that was very clearly and obviously lining up for a move into the left hander.

 

He moves left by about half a car width in the split second before the impact. Changing your line entering a braking zone when someone is attempting an overtake is probably the most guaranteed way to cause an accident. He needs a bigger smack around the head in my opinion to go with his penalty. Vettel is taking the line, Perez is way off it and moving across further! Idiota! <pinches thumb and forefinger and waves it in his face>.


Edited by Tenmantaylor, 11 June 2014 - 09:20.


#362 skyfolker

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:50

Did they change the poll question by any chance?

Guess that's why I took screenshot with the original question,should have embedded it in previous post:http://i.imgur.com/YKeIrT0.jpg



#363 icecream

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 10:04

And dragging Senna and Schumacher into EVERY incident that happens is just getting dull now.

 

It's our equivalent of Godwin's law.



#364 Frank Tuesday

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 13:45

And dragging Senna and Schumacher into EVERY incident that happens is just getting dull now.

 

It's our equivalent of Godwin's law.

 

If you're going to bring Senna and Schumacher into it, you should have to bring Prost into it as well since he did it before either of these two. 



#365 garagetinkerer

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 19:22

I've fashioned a graphic that illustrates my thinking that Perez is definitely to blame. 

 

vwQasOm.jpg

 

The green line is the ideal racing line as proven by Vettel. I don't believe for once second Perez is following his normal line here, it's completely sub optimal to enter the left hander from near the middle of the track. He is a liar, he was taking a defensive line to try block a car that was very clearly and obviously lining up for a move into the left hander.

 

He moves left by about half a car width in the split second before the impact. Changing your line entering a braking zone when someone is attempting an overtake is probably the most guaranteed way to cause an accident. He needs a bigger smack around the head in my opinion to go with his penalty. Vettel is taking the line, Perez is way off it and moving across further! Idiota! <pinches thumb and forefinger and waves it in his face>.

I still think that some ballast should hung from his gentleman vegetables and then he should be asked to run around the circuit flat chat... if he slows down, cane that little duck. Utter pillock. It was not just Vettel who was at risk, but what about the on track personnel. i shudder to think how badly it could have all ended.



#366 charly0418

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 20:48

Regardless of whose fault it is, this has become a bit of a PR mess for FI.  This is definitely one of those situations where they would be best not saying anything.

 

Nah its fine, they're a little team trying to stand out and be heard. For these teams any kind publicity is good.

 

Plus I rather be entertained with that rather than the rotten McLaren PR



#367 redreni

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 20:59

Regardless of whose fault it is, this has become a bit of a PR mess for FI.  This is definitely one of those situations where they would be best not saying anything.

 

Or if they must say something, maybe thank the marshalls, doctors, the people at the hospital who checked the drivers over and looked after them, etc. And maybe express relief that both drivers escaped more or less unharmed.



#368 Mascalzone

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 21:06

If you're going to bring Senna and Schumacher into it, you should have to bring Prost into it as well since he did it before either of these two. 

Good quote, it's the exact same story of Suzuka '89, just faster.

 

I will pay for the Ricciardo's camera car passing Perez...


Edited by Mascalzone, 11 June 2014 - 21:16.


#369 ExFlagMan

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 21:13

At least Prost had the sense to do it at a slow speed to minimise damage to the cars - class :clap:



#370 Mascalzone

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 21:26

More evident, already braking and at slower speed, but the cause of the contact is the same.

 


Edited by Mascalzone, 11 June 2014 - 21:26.


#371 Physicist2

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 22:38

There has been a great deal of discussion here about who had the right to do what, but not much attempt to understand exactly what happened. From the overhead video and the in-car videos, it is clear the critical moment was about 0.25 seconds before the collision. That was the point at which Masa turned right, placing the cars on a collision course (which they were not prior to that.) Why did he decide to do that? What was his thinking? I can think of only 3 possibilities.

 

1. He was unaware that Perez had departed from following the curvature of the edge of the track quite a ways back and had been travelling in a straight line for some time. He did not realize, therefore, that his right turn put them on a collision course.

2. He was playing a bit of "chicken"; he expected Perez would see him in his mirror and would turn right to avoid the collision (thus giving Masa a better line on the inside.)

3. He saw that Perez was taking an early apex and there would be no room for an inside move. He decided to cross close behind Perez (without lifting) and take the outside racing line, anticipating Perez (on the tight entry) would run wide and he would undercut him then. But he was caught out by Perez braking early (because he was nursing his brakes.)

Of these, 1 and 2 seem highly unlikely, so we are left with number 3. What else makes sense?



#372 ElTope

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 01:47

Peter Windsor makes it very clear.

 



#373 Kenstate

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 01:54

Peter Windsor makes it very clear.

 

 

I was just going to quote that video. Windsor actually made a ton of sense to me. The lead car always has the option of moving over ONCE to defend his line as long the trailing car doesn't have a significant portion of the car alongside. At worst, it was a racing incident to me.



#374 Myrvold

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 02:14

At the same time, there is a limit for when you can move over, there was a speed difference between the cars.



#375 charly0418

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 02:40

Peter Windsor makes it very clear.

 

 

nice video, Peter is obviously well informed and he was at the race



#376 toofast

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 02:40

At the same time, there is a limit for when you can move over, there was a speed difference between the cars.

 

The limit is common sense not black and white rule.



#377 warp

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 02:45

The limit is common sense...

 

Which neither Checo or Massa have demonstrated to have.  :lol:  :lol:



#378 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 11:23

Look at the point of contact in my second image. I believe that is a significant amount of car along side to not warrant a defensive move across. Massa pulled out of Perez's mirrors with an overspeed a few tenths before the first image. At this point it's so important the car infront understands that the driver is in all likelihood alongside. Perez must have known this and took an insane chance IMO that he could scare Massa out of a legitimate and textbook overtaking move. Just unacceptable in open wheel formula cars at 190mph.



#379 Gareth

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 13:14

The lead car always has the option of moving over ONCE to defend his line as long the trailing car doesn't have a significant portion of the car alongside.

Even Perez knows that this defence doesn't work.  That's why he changed his approach from "I moved to defend" to "I took my normal line".

 

Once in the braking zone, a defensive move isn't really on as the driver behind has no opportunity to react.



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#380 redreni

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 16:40

There has been a great deal of discussion here about who had the right to do what, but not much attempt to understand exactly what happened. From the overhead video and the in-car videos, it is clear the critical moment was about 0.25 seconds before the collision. That was the point at which Masa turned right, placing the cars on a collision course (which they were not prior to that.) Why did he decide to do that? What was his thinking? I can think of only 3 possibilities.

 

1. He was unaware that Perez had departed from following the curvature of the edge of the track quite a ways back and had been travelling in a straight line for some time. He did not realize, therefore, that his right turn put them on a collision course.

2. He was playing a bit of "chicken"; he expected Perez would see him in his mirror and would turn right to avoid the collision (thus giving Masa a better line on the inside.)

3. He saw that Perez was taking an early apex and there would be no room for an inside move. He decided to cross close behind Perez (without lifting) and take the outside racing line, anticipating Perez (on the tight entry) would run wide and he would undercut him then. But he was caught out by Perez braking early (because he was nursing his brakes.)

Of these, 1 and 2 seem highly unlikely, so we are left with number 3. What else makes sense?

 

Can you define "for some time"?

 

If you make a pass on the inside on corner entry, you inevitably rely on the other driver seeing you, knowing that you're committed, and therefore knowing that he can't take your line because that would cause a collision. If the other driver wants to defend the inside line, he can, but there comes a point where it is simply too late to defend, and when you don't have much in the way of brakes left that point comes quite a long way before the corner. If the approach to the corner was straight and Perez had moved from the right-hand edge of the track, taken a diagonal line across the approach to the braking zone and the braking zone, I'm not sure Massa would have been criticised for not moving with him. It's only because the track, and the conventional line, goes right, that we have this discussion.

 

The line Perez was taking into that corner was a very slow one and contributed to the need for him to brake much earlier than normal, since in order to make the turn on that line he's have needed a rather slow apex speed. Of course, under normal circumstances he can take a weird line if he wants, but when there is somebody behind you who is closing on you quickly and looking up the inside, wandering across at 30 degrees to the normal line whilst braking heavily is not a clever way to defend your position, even if the other guy is still a bit behind you. Why did Massa turn right? Because that's the way the track goes and he was intending to make it round turn 1, is my guess. And at the speed he was closing on Perez he was expecting that, if Perez wanted to cover the inside, he would have done it much earlier.

 

Should Perez's initial failure to hug the inside of the kink have alerted Massa to the fact that he intended to drive diagonally all the way across the braking zone and take an abnormally tight line into turn 1? I don't necessarily think so. When it's too late for a driver to completely cover the inside line on the approach to a corner, it's not unusual to see them feigning to the middle of the track just to force the other car onto a slightly tighter line. But they usually return to the optimum line for braking. Accordingly, Massa probably expected Perez to realise the block wasn't on and go back to a more normal line.



#381 Clatter

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 16:55

Look at the point of contact in my second image. I believe that is a significant amount of car along side to not warrant a defensive move across. Massa pulled out of Perez's mirrors with an overspeed a few tenths before the first image. At this point it's so important the car infront understands that the driver is in all likelihood alongside. Perez must have known this and took an insane chance IMO that he could scare Massa out of a legitimate and textbook overtaking move. Just unacceptable in open wheel formula cars at 190mph.

In relation to your images, at what point did Massa make his move to the right?

 

Good video here  (but probably not for long).

They were catching SV quite quickly and looked as if SP was worried about running into the back of him.


Edited by Clatter, 12 June 2014 - 16:59.


#382 speedmaster

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 17:24

I've stated my case before so can't be bothered getting into it again but really bewildered as to how even this poll is. Worst part is Perez has taken no responsibility and is showing no remorse so is likely to still believe that what he did is acceptable. Moving in braking areas is possibly the most dangerous thing a driver can do and it MUST be stamped out or something much worse could happen.

 

Massa_Perez.jpg

Easily the best analysis tool...well done! congrats



#383 ANF

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 18:21

Peter Windsor: "And in any event, moving once – as far as I understand it – isn't actually illegal anyway, even if it was a deliberate move." :drunk:



#384 Sumant

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 18:53

Peter Windsor: "And in any event, moving once – as far as I understand it – isn't actually illegal anyway, even if it was a deliberate move." :drunk:

If you are trying to allude that Windsor thinks Perez moved deliberately, then you are wrong. 



#385 Physicist2

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 18:55

Can you define "for some time"?

 

If you make a pass on the inside on corner entry, you inevitably rely on the other driver seeing you, knowing that you're committed, and therefore knowing that he can't take your line because that would cause a collision. If the other driver wants to defend the inside line, he can, but there comes a point where it is simply too late to defend, and when you don't have much in the way of brakes left that point comes quite a long way before the corner. If the approach to the corner was straight and Perez had moved from the right-hand edge of the track, taken a diagonal line across the approach to the braking zone and the braking zone, I'm not sure Massa would have been criticised for not moving with him. It's only because the track, and the conventional line, goes right, that we have this discussion.

 

The line Perez was taking into that corner was a very slow one and contributed to the need for him to brake much earlier than normal, since in order to make the turn on that line he's have needed a rather slow apex speed. Of course, under normal circumstances he can take a weird line if he wants, but when there is somebody behind you who is closing on you quickly and looking up the inside, wandering across at 30 degrees to the normal line whilst braking heavily is not a clever way to defend your position, even if the other guy is still a bit behind you. Why did Massa turn right? Because that's the way the track goes and he was intending to make it round turn 1, is my guess. And at the speed he was closing on Perez he was expecting that, if Perez wanted to cover the inside, he would have done it much earlier.

 

Should Perez's initial failure to hug the inside of the kink have alerted Massa to the fact that he intended to drive diagonally all the way across the braking zone and take an abnormally tight line into turn 1? I don't necessarily think so. When it's too late for a driver to completely cover the inside line on the approach to a corner, it's not unusual to see them feigning to the middle of the track just to force the other car onto a slightly tighter line. But they usually return to the optimum line for braking. Accordingly, Massa probably expected Perez to realise the block wasn't on and go back to a more normal line.

The point at which Massa turns right, putting the cars on a collision course, is between #3 and #4 in the photo speedmaster posted in #382. Surely you are not suggesting that at that point Massa had no better option. The question I pose is, simply, what was it that caught Massa by surprise? I submit it could not have been that Perez continued to travel in the direction he had been going for another 0.2 seconds thereafter. It could only be that Massa was caught out by Perez's early braking as he deliberately moved behind Perez (most likely with the intention of taking the outside position approaching the next turn.) I ask again, what else could he have been thinking at that moment? What surprised him to such an extent that he was unable to avoid running into the back of Perez?



#386 Sumant

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 19:09

Regardless of whose fault it is, this has become a bit of a PR mess for FI.  This is definitely one of those situations where they would be best not saying anything.

 

I really don't think it was a PR mess at all. I think FI handled it quite professionally. On the other hand, Rob Smedley was out cursing Perez for his brakes from a badly interpreted radio message. It is really odd to see a guy who is as high as he is in the team to say that. He wan't being objective was he. Or maybe that is the Williams culture and maybe that's why they are in such a mess..



#387 Vepe1995

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 19:22

The point at which Massa turns right, putting the cars on a collision course, is between #3 and #4 in the photo speedmaster posted in #382. Surely you are not suggesting that at that point Massa had no better option. The question I pose is, simply, what was it that caught Massa by surprise? I submit it could not have been that Perez continued to travel in the direction he had been going for another 0.2 seconds thereafter. It could only be that Massa was caught out by Perez's early braking as he deliberately moved behind Perez (most likely with the intention of taking the outside position approaching the next turn.) I ask again, what else could he have been thinking at that moment? What surprised him to such an extent that he was unable to avoid running into the back of Perez?

 

Perez moving towards the inside in a braking zone in a car with brake issues?

 

I put the blame on Perez. I mean, you don't change lines in the braking zone. Especially if your car is damaged. And that's what Perez did. Perez should've followed the racing line and not go straight.

 

I agree that Massa might have been caught out by Perez's early braking, but IMO that wasn't the cause for the crash. I also think Massa should've left a bit more room, but I can understand why he didn't. He didn't want to compromise his line to T1 too much, so that he could be able to challenge Vettel during the rest of the lap. And I can't blame him for doing that.

 

Oh, and I don't really understand the fuss about Massa turning right. I mean, the track curves to the right there.



#388 ANF

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 19:43

If you are trying to allude that Windsor thinks Perez moved deliberately, then you are wrong. 

I'm not; he says he doesn't think it was deliberate and that we can't know for sure.

Windsor is, however, suggesting that a driver is entitled to block the car behind – and cause a collision! – by hitting the brakes and deliberately getting in its way when it is about to overtake. That's nonsense.



#389 redreni

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 20:44

The point at which Massa turns right, putting the cars on a collision course, is between #3 and #4 in the photo speedmaster posted in #382. Surely you are not suggesting that at that point Massa had no better option. The question I pose is, simply, what was it that caught Massa by surprise? I submit it could not have been that Perez continued to travel in the direction he had been going for another 0.2 seconds thereafter. It could only be that Massa was caught out by Perez's early braking as he deliberately moved behind Perez (most likely with the intention of taking the outside position approaching the next turn.) I ask again, what else could he have been thinking at that moment? What surprised him to such an extent that he was unable to avoid running into the back of Perez?

 

I think Massa was taken by surprise by Perez's failure to follow the normal line, yes. And by the very early braking, of course. But I don't think for a moment that he wanted to try the outside. I agree with ed24f1's analysis that Perez gave no indication to Massa that he wanted to deviate from the normal line and straightline the exit until a point between #3 and #4 in the sequence, because everything he'd done before that was consistent with him taking pretty much the usual line. So unless Massa was psychic or had incredible reactions he wouldn't have known there would be a gap on the outside to go for. There wouldn't have been time for him to arrive at any such decision. 0.2s is not a long time. 0.2s is a pretty reasonable reaction time even for an F1 driver. Massa didn't react until it was too late because Perez gave no warning of his intentions and didn't give Massa enough time to react.



#390 ANF

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 00:14



"Who chrashes into whom?"



#391 Arska

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 10:20

"Who chrashes into whom?"

 

Patrese crashes into Alliot. Alliot is to blamed for the crash because of changing his line in the braking zone with a car right behind him.



#392 Sash1

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 12:00

Yeah, but is pretty common to drive around the bump there. Can't remember if they had to do that in the eighties though. 



#393 JTSaika

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 15:06

Peter Windsor makes it very clear.

 

This sounds damn familiar. -.-'

Yet people will still bash Perez so whats the point. Of course no one is going to watch the video anyway because everyone is too busy trying to win their argument instead.  


Edited by JTSaika, 13 June 2014 - 15:10.


#394 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 15:09

This sounds damn familiar. -.-'

Yet people will still bash Perez so whats the point. Of course no one is going to watch the video anyway because everyone is too busy trying to win their argument instead.  

 

probably because he behaved like an idiot?



#395 JTSaika

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 15:26

probably because he behaved like an idiot?

Who? Massa?, The Stewards?, The people arguing?, Perez?, Peter?, FI?, Smeadly? Vettel? Ricciardo?
Sorry, there was a lot discussed in the video you didn't watch.
 


Edited by JTSaika, 13 June 2014 - 15:31.


#396 Nemo1965

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 16:38

Saika,

 

Windsor makes some good points, especially regarding Massa's less than prudent approach. If a car has braking problems, or has tyres that are cooked, and in general has handling problems, and you try to overtake him, give yourself looooots of space when you overtake. That is why people like Button and Alonso finish so many races.

 

Never the less: the same could be said about Perez. A driver that has carproblems, has to show the responsability to avoid cars in front but also behind him. If I would drive on the freeway and my car started smoking, I would be to blamed if I didn't watch my mirrors to check what is behind me.

 

Five grid penalty for Perez: about fair.



#397 MikeV1987

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 16:50

With one lap to go I wouldn't expect Perez to give up his place very easy, Massa could have been a little more patient since his car was a lot faster.



#398 BullHead

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 17:00

IMO both at fault. A racing incident, no need for a penalty really.

#399 Mauseri

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 17:30

probably because he behaved like an idiot?

It is ok to penalize him for a crime he did not commit because he is an idiot?



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#400 Arska

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 17:52

Yeah, but is pretty common to drive around the bump there. Can't remember if they had to do that in the eighties though. 

 

Alliot went much less to the middle of the track than drivers usually do. He moved more to block after the bump. No excuse for him.