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Can Rosberg and Ricciardo be considered tier one drivers now?


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#51 andrewr

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:12

I would go further and say there has not been a British tier one driver since 1973.  Mansell was tier 1.5.  Then again, I would say the only tier 1 drivers since 1973 are Senna, Prost, Alonso and Hamilton.  I am still not convinced by Schumacher.  Narrow talent window.  Short sprints between pitstops then only Hakkinen was close.  Neutral regulations and tyre management skills being required and he was midfield. 

 

I'm not even sure what all this tier rubbish really means, but if we are talking about 1973 onwards, I think Lauda and Piquet belong in that group.



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#52 P123

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:20

I don't really buy into the 'tier' stuff -if it were true, DR and NR would be nowhere near their teammates, Massa would never have beaten Kimi, Hamilton never matched Alonso, etc, but based on the current form of both they are obviously among the best.



#53 sennafan24

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:21

Lauda is difficult because in his seventies pomp the driving pool was shallow.  Hunt is under-rated as a driver but lost a lot after 1977.  Other than him, Scheckter, Reutemann et al were not top drawer.  We lost Brise in particular who could have been tier 1.  On his comeback Lauda was no better than Watson, and Prost comfortably out-paced him, but Lauda had more nous.

Fair play.

 

My knowledge of F1 pre 1980's is a bit sketchy. I can agree that if a driver is competing in a shallow driving pool it can flatter their ability, It depends on what you measure a driver on overall. 



#54 PAGATRON

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:23

No, not until they pass the trials.

 

SEND IN THE HOT COALS!!!



#55 andrewr

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:24

Lauda is difficult because in his seventies pomp the driving pool was shallow.  Hunt is under-rated as a driver but lost a lot after 1977.  Other than him, Scheckter, Reutemann et al were not top drawer.  We lost Brise in particular who could have been tier 1.  On his comeback Lauda was no better than Watson, and Prost comfortably out-paced him, but Lauda had more nous.

 

Don't forget Peterson and Fittipaldi. Oh, and Rikky von Opel :)



#56 boldhakka

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:25

We have to consider if "Tiers" are meaningful. 



#57 1Devil1

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:26

I would go further and say there has not been a British tier one driver since 1973.  Mansell was tier 1.5.  Then again, I would say the only tier 1 drivers since 1973 are Senna, Prost, Alonso and Hamilton.  I am still not convinced by Schumacher.  Narrow talent window.  Short sprints between pitstops then only Hakkinen was close.  Neutral regulations and tyre management skills being required and he was midfield. 

 

Hamilton tier 1 while Schumacher not, can I get the stuff your are smoking?  :lol:



#58 BobbyRicky

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:28

Rosberg did beat Schumacher, and is currently beating His royal highness Lewis of Hamilton.

 

I think he should be compared to Max Chilton or something.



#59 baddog

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:31

I don't like talking about tiers and stuff much, but if there is a tier one it has Fangio,Clark,Prost,Senna, Schumacher and a handful of others in it.. No current driver is quite in there yet, but Alonso or Vettel or Hamilton (or Ricciardo or Rosberg for that matter, they all have the driving ability at least) might end their careers there if the future has huge achievements for them. Fortune and the 'times' plays a big part so who knows.

 

Oh and ensign... put the pipe down and move away from the keyboard. Schumacher towers over Alonso unless Alonso can put a couple of Ferrari championships in the bag. Or maybe you are just trolling?



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#60 ensign14

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:33

Don't forget Peterson and Fittipaldi. Oh, and Rikky von Opel :)

 

Mad Ronald was spectacular as heck, but he wasn't the fastest.  Andretti had him in his pocket at Lotus.  Forget this nonsense about Peterson holding back to give Mario the championship, if you look at the facts he was scarcely ever close.



#61 Farhannn15

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:34

What would you consider tier 1 though? For example I believe Fernando and Lewis have that little bit extra over the rest of the grid so are they tier 1? And then I would rate the likes of Seb, Nico R, Nico H, Dan, Romain and Kimi in the level below them but still at the top

#62 sennafan24

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:35

Oh and ensign... put the pipe down and move away from the keyboard. Schumacher towers over Alonso unless Alonso can put a couple of Ferrari championships in the bag. Or maybe you are just trolling?

Well, I will have to put the pipe down as well.

 

I also consider Alonso to be Schumi's equal overall. Again it depends on what you judge a driver on. Yes, Schumi has won a lot more WDC's than Alonso, if you think that is a reflective measurement of greatness in a driver, then fair enough.

 

I think Alonso has performed as well as Schumi when we consider context (teammate comparisons, car performance and other variables). Others will disagree, which is fair enough.

 

It is really pretty subjective.



#63 ensign14

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:36

Oh and ensign... put the pipe down and move away from the keyboard. Schumacher towers over Alonso unless Alonso can put a couple of Ferrari championships in the bag. Or maybe you are just trolling?

 

Ferrari now is not Ferrari then.  Ferrari then could have had the Brawn diffuser thrown out.  Ferrari then could have had the Red Bull wings thrown out.  As we know Ferrari then had the McLaren double brake thrown out; they had the Ilmor engine thrown out; they had the Michelin tyres thrown out. 

 

Alonso is doing something Schumacher never did at Ferrari.  He is beating a driver of world champion calibre.



#64 Farhannn15

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:37

It's far too early to tell about DR.
 
NR isn't bad at all; he's had the measure or equal of all his teammates, but this is his 9th season in F1 and he hasn't set the universe on fire like FA, SV or LH did when they started.

. But surely in a Williams from
2006 to 2009 and a Merc from 2010 to 2012 he couldn't really set the world alight as the machinery didn't let him. However just like Ricciardo at Toro Rosso and Hulkenburg at Force India he impressed a lot of people with his performances in midfield cars.

#65 andrewr

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:39

Mad Ronald was spectacular as heck, but he wasn't the fastest.  Andretti had him in his pocket at Lotus.  Forget this nonsense about Peterson holding back to give Mario the championship, if you look at the facts he was scarcely ever close.

 

Not my point. Although I have seen Peterson drive and he was fast as well as spectacular. Peterson and Fittipaldi were contemporaries of Lauda and certainly no slouches. My point was that Lauda had plenty of competition during his career (including Andretti, who as you point out was pretty damn good).


Edited by andrewr, 09 June 2014 - 11:46.


#66 1Devil1

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:40

Well, I will have to put the pipe down as well.

 

I also consider Alonso to be Schumi's equal overall. Again it depends on what you judge a driver on. Yes, Schumi has won a lot more WDC's than Alonso, if you think that is a reflective measurement of greatness in a driver, then fair enough.

 

I think Alonso has performed as well as Schumi when we consider context (teammate comparisons, car performance and other variables). Others will disagree, which is fair enough.

 

It is really pretty subjective.

 

When did Alonso win all these championships? Alonso never had this 'magic' Michael had in his prime. I can think about very good races from Alonso, he had a lot, but where are his Spain 1996 or Budapest 1998, Michael had stand outs his career, while Alonso's stand out is his consistency, to maximize the car performance



#67 Ricciardo2014

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:43

Yes I do.

Firstly, consider his opposition; his closest challenger for a while was Coulthard.

Secondly, consider his team-mates; Herbert with smashed ankles, Barrichello who was beaten nearly as convincingly by Button, Massa and Irvine, nuff said.

Thirdly, consider the legislative background in which he raced; Ferrari vetoing all opposition, Benetton running illegal software.

Fourthly, consider Schumacher's own self-analysis. He was sufficiently insecure to cheat to win titles. Got away with it once.

And fifthly, look behind the stats and look at the state of GP racing. Identikit tracks, and in the Schumacher era identikit races. Go harry flatters for a quarter of the race, stop, repeat, stop, repeat. Car management was down to a minimum. The sport had changed for his second coming and he was nowhere. Can't use the lay-off as an excuse - Lauda left the Cosworth era, came back to the turbo, and kept Prost honest.

One of the reasons why we can be sure that Fangio, Clark et al were great was because they raced on the original flat-outs of Spa and Monza, the herky-jerk of Silverstone and Aintree, the funambulism of Monaco and Pau, the sheer insanity of the old Ring and Solitude. And won on them all. The Tilkedromes might as well be the same track over and over again. They also won in other things as well (Fangio in rallies, Clark in Indycar and touring cars). And if you wanted to challenge Fangio in his 250F, you could go out and buy a 250F. No excuses.


Your constant references to Fangio etc, give me the distinct feeling you are having trouble moving on from "The Grand Old Days".

It's 2014 mate, and nothing will bring back those eras you so cherish ;)

#68 sennafan24

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:47

When did Alonso win all these championships? Alonso never had this 'magic' Michael had in his prime. I can think about very good races from Alonso, he had a lot, but where are his Spain 1996 or Budapest 1998, Michael had stand outs his career, while Alonso's stand out is his consistency, to maximize the car performance

Sepang 2012 is held up as a classic Alonso performance. Again, I do not judge on quantity of WDC's. Others do, and I respect that.

 

Schumi did produce magic, I will not dispute that.



#69 pokerkid

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:48

When did Alonso win all these championships? Alonso never had this 'magic' Michael had in his prime. I can think about very good races from Alonso, he had a lot, but where are his Spain 1996 or Budapest 1998, Michael had stand outs his career, while Alonso's stand out is his consistency, to maximize the car performance

 

Never had the magic? How do describe the last 4 years of acheiving more than his cars should be capable of? That is easily as good as Michaels best years and actually surpasses them because of the higher level of competition. Where was his spain 1996? How about Malaysia 2012 when he won with a car that qualified 10th of the grid, compared to Michaels 3rd of the grid in the second best car at spain 96?

 

Alonso is easily tier 1. Hamilton has tier 1 talent but lacks the head. Rosberg is a good driver but really appears better than he is because of circumstances. Ricciardo its its too early to tell.



#70 1Devil1

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:51

Sepang 2012 is held up as a classic Alonso performance. Again, I do not judge on quantity of WDC's. Others do, and I respect that.

 

Schumi did produce magic, I will not dispute that.

 

Yeah Sepang 2012, that's all people can say, you can count his races remember for eternity on one hand. Schumacher produced races like that every year. Consistency wise I think Alonso ist better than Michael 



#71 JensonWDC

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:54

Of course Nico is tier 1. I think he lacks a bit of rain skills but so do Alonso or Raikkonen (not tier 1 anymore for me) for example


Edited by JensonWDC, 09 June 2014 - 11:55.


#72 pokerkid

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:56

Yeah Sepang 2012, that's all people can say, you can count his races remember for eternity on one hand. Schumacher produced races like that every year. Consistency wise I think Alonso ist better than Michael 

 

Actually he has had many more.

 

Hungary 2003

imola 2005

Nurburgring 2007

Bahrain 2006

Japan 2008

2012 valencia

Hungary 2006

 

I could go on and on


Edited by pokerkid, 09 June 2014 - 11:59.


#73 GeoffR

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:56

I think that Daniel has shown enough this year, and will continue to show that he should be considered as a Tier 1 (where does such a category exist??) driver for this year at least.



#74 andrewr

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:59

I think that Daniel has shown enough this year, and will continue to show that he should be considered as a Tier 1 (where does such a category exist??) driver for this year at least.

 

Only in the imagination of certain people. It's totally meaningless as far as I can see. It's even more ridiculous when they start talking about tier 2 and tier 3.


Edited by andrewr, 09 June 2014 - 12:07.


#75 xmoonrakerx

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 12:08

No.

 

They can't turn water into wine like Alonso or Hamilton.



#76 f1supreme

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 12:12

nico,not yet.he's only leading because of his teamates dnfs.lewis brakes failed when leading the race yesterday,plus nico looked clumsy during the race.he made several mistakes.the only weekend i give nico so far is monaco,not aus and not canada.the fact lewis was able to turn a 25 point lead around by winning 4 in a row speaks for itself.if he manages to win the next 4 in a row to turn things around again,that will say alot too.ric is very good,but he needs to do alot more to be put up there with vettel.


Edited by f1supreme, 09 June 2014 - 12:16.


#77 PayasYouRace

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 12:26

I would go further and say there has not been a British tier one driver since 1973.  Mansell was tier 1.5.  Then again, I would say the only tier 1 drivers since 1973 are Senna, Prost, Alonso and Hamilton.  I am still not convinced by Schumacher.  Narrow talent window.  Short sprints between pitstops then only Hakkinen was close.  Neutral regulations and tyre management skills being required and he was midfield. 

 

To reduce the "top tier" to only 4 drivers over a 40 year period makes it a pretty meaningless definition in my eyes, but each to their own.

 

As far as I'm concerned the top tier encompasses the top 3-6 drivers in the sport at any one time. But it shows that a thread like this can't be all that useful when everyone has their own definition.



#78 danmills

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 12:30

You can't ever have an answer for this sort of question because there never has nor ever will be a definitive 'Tier' requirement.

 

Too many different car types, tracks, driver pools etc to equally evaluate them all to the same degree.

 

Tiers are seemingly relevant to the driver pool and field of that time; and only that moment. It could differ week in and week out.

 

ie,

 

Kimi of 2005 vs Kimi 2012 vs Kimi 2014. Same driver, different circumstances. Different results. He was clear T1 material, but the results this season suggest otherwise. So what is he!?

Stick Kimi in the 1970s, and it opens a number of things.

 

Heck, imagine Heidfeld vs Hulkenberg in the 1992 Williams. We'd be calling them T1 material.

 

Rosberg is leading the championship and bagging the points. Hamilton isn't being as efficient.

 

Yet nobody is asking if Hamilton is T1 material!?

What does a driver really need to do, besides leading the championship, to be considered the best of that time!?

 

I mean, seriously guys!? How many other world champions on that grid are there!?

P1 is P1. End of.



#79 SR388

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 12:32

Not yet, but the DR is really impressing me.

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#80 sennafan24

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 12:33

Rosberg is leading the championship and bagging the points. Hamilton isn't being as efficient.

 

Ah? Please explain


Edited by sennafan24, 09 June 2014 - 12:33.


#81 danmills

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 12:33

nico,not yet.he's only leading because of his teamates dnfs.lewis brakes failed when leading the race yesterday,plus nico looked clumsy during the race.he made several mistakes.the only weekend i give nico so far is monaco,not aus and not canada.the fact lewis was able to turn a 25 point lead around by winning 4 in a row speaks for itself.if he manages to win the next 4 in a row to turn things around again,that will say alot too.ric is very good,but he needs to do alot more to be put up there with vettel.

 

Luck is one of a million factors that decide race outcomes. You can't pick and choose best moments and take bad bits out to balance things against drivers.

 

You can be as fast as you are lucky. P1 is P1.

 

At the end of the weekend, points are points and results are what count.

Hamilton is being beaten at the moment. Point standings do not lie. Mistakes or bad luck or whatever.


Edited by danmills, 09 June 2014 - 12:34.


#82 sennafan24

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 12:34

 

Hamilton is being beaten at the moment. Point standings do not lie. Mistakes or bad luck or whatever.

Points standings do not always determine which driver is performing better though



#83 danmills

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 12:43

Where a world champion is decided by most points, it doesn't matter who had better speed traps; qualy sectors; poles; podiums etc. You can take apart that information to decide 'perfomance' arguments until the cows go home.

 

So Hamilton is performing better!? At what!? Faster? Probably, most days. Aggressive? Likely.

 

No amount of fastest laps or quicker sectors or overtakes are going to change the fact you aren't leading the title.

 

So many amazing drivers have those credentials, but were not winners.

 

Fundamentally, whoever tops the tables is doing the best of that situation and that position is what goes down in the history books and has the name on the trophy..

 

It really is that easy.

 

The title is a long chase with numerous variables. You have to be a jack of all to win it. Look at, ironically, Keke Rosberg.

Slow and steady can win the race just as much as the all out hare.



#84 sennafan24

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 12:48

 

Fundamentally, whoever tops the tables is doing the best of that situation and that position is what goes down in the history books and has the name on the trophy..

 

It really is that easy.

 

No, it is not

 

Nico is not doing a better job than Lewis this year so far. Lewis has finished ahead of Nico 4 times in a 2 car finish, whilst Nico has only managed to finish in front of Lewis once. Lewis is winning the qualifying battle 4-3 as well. Lewis has simply been unlucky, 2 DNF's due to mechanical problems, in which Nico netted 33 points in his favor as a result.

 

You are burying your head in the sand I am afraid, and coming to a very narrow minded and simplistic conclusion. 



#85 ensign14

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 12:52

To reduce the "top tier" to only 4 drivers over a 40 year period makes it a pretty meaningless definition in my eyes, but each to their own.

 

As far as I'm concerned the top tier encompasses the top 3-6 drivers in the sport at any one time. But it shows that a thread like this can't be all that useful when everyone has their own definition.

 

My definition is on an all-time basis.  Post-WW2, Clark and Fangio are in a class of their own, beyond any tiers, then you have Moss, Stewart, Senna, Prost, Alonso and Hamilton.  Yes, I am going there. 

 

Pre-WW2, you have Caracciola and Nuvolari clear of the rest, then in Tier 1 I'd include Rosemeyer, Antonio Ascari and Varzi.  Pre-WW1 the sport is too different to post-, but if you forced me to name one, I'd throw in Leon Thery.



#86 PayasYouRace

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 12:58

My definition is on an all-time basis.  Post-WW2, Clark and Fangio are in a class of their own, beyond any tiers, then you have Moss, Stewart, Senna, Prost, Alonso and Hamilton.  Yes, I am going there. 

 

Pre-WW2, you have Caracciola and Nuvolari clear of the rest, then in Tier 1 I'd include Rosemeyer, Antonio Ascari and Varzi.  Pre-WW1 the sport is too different to post-, but if you forced me to name one, I'd throw in Leon Thery.

 

Well I find it odd that you have a tier 0 for Clark and Fangio but if that's your system knock yourself out. Those drivers were/are all excellent. I just don't see the usefulness of a system where you can have up to a decade with no top drivers in the sport.



#87 Jimisgod

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 13:05

Ricciardo is definitely Tier One if Vettel is, too. He will be a champion one day in the next decade.

Rosberg is slightly harder to judge because Hamilton had him kind of covered most of the time, Lewis is just fickle and when he has a bad day, it's a really bad day.

#88 Jimisgod

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 13:11

No.

They can't turn water into wine like Alonso or Hamilton.


Has Ricciardo had the car to do that except for the 7 races this year? I'd argue he did exactly that at Canada today.

6th to 1st is pretty close to some of their best drives.

#89 Alfisti

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 13:18

I would go further and say there has not been a British tier one driver since 1973.  Mansell was tier 1.5.  Then again, I would say the only tier 1 drivers since 1973 are Senna, Prost, Alonso and Hamilton.  I am still not convinced by Schumacher.  Narrow talent window.  Short sprints between pitstops then only Hakkinen was close.  Neutral regulations and tyre management skills being required and he was midfield. 

 


You need to get back on the meds. Not a fan if schumi but **** me, not convinced?

#90 tkulla

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 13:19

The concept of tiers is silly, unless the definition is that in F1 all the drivers are literally in the top tier of open wheel racing.

 

It's like the "aliens" concept from MotoGP, and there we can see that Dani Pedrosa can hardly be one considering he is not even close to a match for his young teammate. Yet a few short years ago he was clearly thought to be so.

 

Reputations are built on a little bit of something and a whole lot of circumstance. The reality is that there isn't much in it, however unromantic that may sound. There is no driver who is better in all areas than the others (no, not even Alonso). Some have more strengths than others, some have fewer weaknesses, and depending on the regulations of the time and the specific car they are driving they may seem "greater" than the others for a time.



#91 Alfisti

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 13:23

My definition is on an all-time basis.  Post-WW2, Clark and Fangio are in a class of their own, beyond any tiers, then you have Moss, Stewart, Senna, Prost, Alonso and Hamilton.  Yes, I am going there. 

 

Pre-WW2, you have Caracciola and Nuvolari clear of the rest, then in Tier 1 I'd include Rosemeyer, Antonio Ascari and Varzi.  Pre-WW1 the sport is too different to post-, but if you forced me to name one, I'd throw in Leon Thery.

 


The sam Hamilton that was beat fair and square by button and cannot shake Rosberg?? Hes a tremendous wheel to wheel driver but if anyone has a question mark over his status its him. His immaturity, lack of patience and siege mentality makes it hars to put him up there with the greats over a 20 round cchip.

#92 Rinehart

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 13:27

Any driver who has the potential to win the championship in the right car can be considered top tier in my book - Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton, Rosberg, Riccardo and Button are those. Not sure Kimi has it anymore however.



#93 Rinehart

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 13:28

 

Alonso is doing something Schumacher never did at Ferrari.  He is beating a driver of world champion calibre.

Former champion calibre more like.



#94 danmills

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 13:40

No, it is not

 

Nico is not doing a better job than Lewis this year so far. Lewis has finished ahead of Nico 4 times in a 2 car finish, whilst Nico has only managed to finish in front of Lewis once. Lewis is winning the qualifying battle 4-3 as well. Lewis has simply been unlucky, 2 DNF's due to mechanical problems, in which Nico netted 33 points in his favor as a result.

 

You are burying your head in the sand I am afraid, and coming to a very narrow minded and simplistic conclusion

 

I am sorry, but are you watching the same F1 2014 as the rest of us!?
 

Pos Driver Nationality Team Points 1 Nico Rosberg German Mercedes 140 2 Lewis Hamilton British Mercedes 118

 

 

The only person burying their head in the sand is you!  :rotfl: 

Yes, Hamilton is probably the faster and more aggressive driver on any given Sunday in a head to head battle. But what does that count for if he is so quick and so aggressive that his car doesn't cross the line!?

 

I was also the greatest looking man in the world for three seconds before the wind blew my hair and ruined it this morning.

 

Do they consider that factor when the votes come in!? Heck, did I even get a nomination? I don't think so.

 

What about Kimi's bad luck in McLaren. Do we talk about excuses and mistakes; or do we let the results do the talking and refer to Alonso as a 2x and Schummi as a 7x world champion!? You tell me...

For just one second, sit back from the excuses of bad weekends; qualifying battles; best haircut; cutest dog awards and whatever other category you want to factor into this seasons title and cherry pick only the things you like.

For one second LOOK at the actual title.

LOOK AT IT!

And come again that 'Lewis is doing a better job' at the moment.

Really!? I mean REALLY!?

 

RIght now, he isn't doing the better job.

 

Tell me he is, and you really are a fool!

 

Nico right now IS a T1 driver.

 

And so is Ricciardo.



#95 sennafan24

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 13:55

 

Yes, Hamilton is probably the faster and more aggressive driver on any given Sunday in a head to head battle. But what does that count for if he is so quick and so aggressive that his car doesn't cross the line!?

So he did not cross the line in Australia and Canada due to his aggressive driving? Plus I have not argued that Nico/D.R are not Tier 1 drivers. Again, Nico has been good this year, but also lucky relative to Lewis, who I think is performing better overall.

 

Also what is with the one sentence per line post. A unique gimmick, but an annoying one.


Edited by sennafan24, 09 June 2014 - 13:56.


#96 maximilian

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 14:02

I am always rather surprised how little respect Nico Rosberg seems to get.  It's a jolly good battle with Lewis, and I'm looking forward to the rest of the season, and how it all pans out. :up:



#97 OneAndOnly

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 14:02

So Damon winning a WDC against Schumacher, doesn't put him in the top tier ?

Jacques Villeneuve won WDC against Schumacher in the same team, and Jacques is not tier one driver (unlike his father). It's probably hard to accept for English fans, but Hill and Button are not even close to Hamilton (IMHO, and I am not fan of any of mentioned drivers). 



#98 pokerkid

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 14:03

The concept of tiers is silly, unless the definition is that in F1 all the drivers are literally in the top tier of open wheel racing.

 

It's like the "aliens" concept from MotoGP, and there we can see that Dani Pedrosa can hardly be one considering he is not even close to a match for his young teammate. Yet a few short years ago he was clearly thought to be so.

 

Reputations are built on a little bit of something and a whole lot of circumstance. The reality is that there isn't much in it, however unromantic that may sound. There is no driver who is better in all areas than the others (no, not even Alonso). Some have more strengths than others, some have fewer weaknesses, and depending on the regulations of the time and the specific car they are driving they may seem "greater" than the others for a time.

 

Actually there is quite a bit in it, which is proven by the great drivers whos performance level stands out amongst the rest over their careers. That is not circumstance its down to talent. You say tiers is silly, so you would classify the likes of Senna and Button on the same tier? That is what your saying when you deny there are tiers. You are half right because some drivers reputations are built on circumstance, but the really great repuations are built on talent and circumstance.



#99 pokerkid

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 14:04

Any driver who has the potential to win the championship in the right car can be considered top tier in my book - Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton, Rosberg, Riccardo and Button are those. Not sure Kimi has it anymore however.

 

That would almost half an F1 grid. Top tier means the type of drivers that come along once a decade. Please don't cheapen the phrase.



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#100 doc83

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 14:07

I am sorry, but are you watching the same F1 2014 as the rest of us!?
 

Pos Driver Nationality Team Points 1 Nico Rosberg German Mercedes 140 2 Lewis Hamilton British Mercedes 118

 

 

The only person burying their head in the sand is you!  :rotfl: 

Yes, Hamilton is probably the faster and more aggressive driver on any given Sunday in a head to head battle. But what does that count for if he is so quick and so aggressive that his car doesn't cross the line!?

 

I was also the greatest looking man in the world for three seconds before the wind blew my hair and ruined it this morning.

 

Do they consider that factor when the votes come in!? Heck, did I even get a nomination? I don't think so.

 

What about Kimi's bad luck in McLaren. Do we talk about excuses and mistakes; or do we let the results do the talking and refer to Alonso as a 2x and Schummi as a 7x world champion!? You tell me...

For just one second, sit back from the excuses of bad weekends; qualifying battles; best haircut; cutest dog awards and whatever other category you want to factor into this seasons title and cherry pick only the things you like.

For one second LOOK at the actual title.

LOOK AT IT!

And come again that 'Lewis is doing a better job' at the moment.

Really!? I mean REALLY!?

 

RIght now, he isn't doing the better job.

 

Tell me he is, and you really are a fool!

 

Nico right now IS a T1 driver.

 

And so is Ricciardo.

 

If you only look at points what is the purpose of you being here?

Just load F1.com page every day -> result -> standings   and feel better that Rosberg is on top. Till he is. And leave the discussion for adults.

 

Rosberg makes a lot of mistakes this year. In 7 races

  1. Spin in China qualy
  2. Monaco parking
  3. China almost hitting the wall,  and of course the chicane

 

So far without any consequences. But you can easily see he's under tremendous pressure.

People who say he is solid and error free should buy glasses.