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Can Rosberg and Ricciardo be considered tier one drivers now?


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#401 Kenstate

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 02:02

It is also working out brilliantly for him given the circumstances. Both in Canada and UK he has beaten Vettel by strategy and not on pace. This really isn't a bad thing, because you still need to deliver. But it may be important to recognize the moments, when situations are not so favorable for Daniel and his results and perhaps reputation would suffer. It can work both ways (strategy) and we are going to get situations the other way around sooner or later too.

 

But so far - very consistent and also error-free.

 

yeah, today was the first day i noticed it. It certainly didn't feel to me like ricciardo was driving any faster than seb. especially after watching ricciardo get swallowed up by alonso, compared to Seb who actually got his spot back from alonso at the end. but somehow vettel ended up behind AGAIN. Crappy strategy. 

 

But there have been some places where ricciardo has just beaten seb on outright pace. China and bahrain come to mind immediately. but malaysia, and monaco seb had ricciardo beat. So this points battle definitely could've been alot closer. 


Edited by Kenstate, 07 July 2014 - 02:04.


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#402 lbennie

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 02:57

In the short period of time when they were both in clean air on the same tyres, Dan was a lot faster. This was on a set of tyres he would eventually stretch out to 37 laps too, Seb tossed his after 20....



#403 travbrad

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 02:58

Crappy strategy. 

 

Yeah I really don't know what RBR was thinking with Vettel's strategy.  It's almost as if they thought he was Mark Webber or something.   :p


Edited by travbrad, 07 July 2014 - 02:58.


#404 IMOA

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 02:59

yeah, today was the first day i noticed it. It certainly didn't feel to me like ricciardo was driving any faster than seb. especially after watching ricciardo get swallowed up by alonso, compared to Seb who actually got his spot back from alonso at the end. but somehow vettel ended up behind AGAIN. Crappy strategy. 

 

But there have been some places where ricciardo has just beaten seb on outright pace. China and bahrain come to mind immediately. but malaysia, and monaco seb had ricciardo beat. So this points battle definitely could've been alot closer. 

 

In Canada Vettel had the preferred strategy (pitting one lap before Riccardo) Riccardo just had a killer in lap while Vettel had an average out lap which put Riccardo ahead. That is beating him on pace. At Silverstone Riccardo had a far from ideal 1 stop strategy, his first stint was way too short but that happened because he changed from a 2 stopper to a 1 stopper mid race. It was Riccardo's tyre management, being able to put in quick times (generally quicker than Vettel) while managing the tyres for an ultra long stint that got him the podium.

 

Writing his win in Canada and podium at Silverstone off as simply 'better strategy' is massively underselling what Riccardo is doing in order to make that strategy work - super fast laps when needed, consistent quick laps while managing tyre degradation. Those are the things which so far this season Vettel has not managed to do.



#405 v@sh

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 03:01

yeah, today was the first day i noticed it. It certainly didn't feel to me like ricciardo was driving any faster than seb. especially after watching ricciardo get swallowed up by alonso, compared to Seb who actually got his spot back from alonso at the end. but somehow vettel ended up behind AGAIN. Crappy strategy. 

 

But there have been some places where ricciardo has just beaten seb on outright pace. China and bahrain come to mind immediately. but malaysia, and monaco seb had ricciardo beat. So this points battle definitely could've been alot closer. 

 

That's a bit of an unfair comparison considering that Ricciardo was on the hard's while Alonso was on the mediums at that point. Also Seb had the fresh tires over Alonso during their battle.

 

It annoys me that people keep pointing to strategy this race, the one stop was better for the grid if you went medium/hards, not the reverse strategy that Ricciardo had of hard/mediums. Ricciardo made the strategy work just barely, otherwise I do not see how Vettel lost this one because of strategy because his strategy was going to get him ahead of Ricciardo had he not got stuck behind Alonso for 15 laps.

 

Ricciardo had Seb beat at Monaco on pace, he had a lousy start which meant he would have finished behind Seb but I do not see how Seb had him beat there since there wasn't much to go by other than qualifying and their starts.


Edited by v@sh, 07 July 2014 - 03:04.


#406 Jimisgod

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 03:14

Huh, if there's one thing I've noticed Dan is better on the tyres.

Dan > Seb > Web

#407 v@sh

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 07:45

Huh, if there's one thing I've noticed Dan is better on the tyres.

Dan > Seb > Web

 

Different tires, different regulations. You can't directly compare the three drivers when the tire compounds are completely different.

 

I'd say for 2014 DR has a slightly better handle on this years one over Seb.

Seb was brilliant with the Pirellis before 2014.

 

Webber would be much more at home on these 2014 ones rather the previous iterations given his more demanding driving style. If anything, the one advantage I see Seb has over Dan this year is his fuel consumption usage though not by too much.



#408 sopa

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 08:19

Regarding Canada I meant that Vettel had a sizable advantage (5-10 seconds) before he was held up by a Force India, which enabled Ricciardo to close up. But I agree Ricciardo's inlap was great.

 

In UK. Which laps exactly do you have in mind, when Ricciardo was lapping faster? As he pitted later for his first stop, he also had slightly fresher tyres after that. Looking at the gaps Vettel always seemed to have some advantage over Ricciardo before his second pitstop. Obviously the gap fluctuated there a bit, but you can enlighten further.

 

I think in ideal conditions the 2-stopper would have worked out fine. But "ideal conditions" mean that Vettel would have never been held up. This rarely happens though, especially around midfield. I wonder if Vettel's strategy gamble was based on the expectation that his race could work out in clean air?



#409 v@sh

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 08:41

Regarding Canada I meant that Vettel had a sizable advantage (5-10 seconds) before he was held up by a Force India, which enabled Ricciardo to close up. But I agree Ricciardo's inlap was great.

 

In UK. Which laps exactly do you have in mind, when Ricciardo was lapping faster? As he pitted later for his first stop, he also had slightly fresher tyres after that. Looking at the gaps Vettel always seemed to have some advantage over Ricciardo before his second pitstop. Obviously the gap fluctuated there a bit, but you can enlighten further.

 

I think in ideal conditions the 2-stopper would have worked out fine. But "ideal conditions" mean that Vettel would have never been held up. This rarely happens though, especially around midfield. I wonder if Vettel's strategy gamble was based on the expectation that his race could work out in clean air?

 

They always calculate ideal conditions prior to the race which is why Brundle said that the teams calculated that the 2 stopper was about 6 seconds quicker, except in the race the teams found out that the hard tire was actually pretty quick and lasted a long time which is why a medium/hard one stopper was the optimum strategy for the race.

 

It wasn't a gamble, both the Red Bulls were looking at 2 stoppers but Ricciardo changed theirs mid race to see if they could get the mediums to the end. Vettel would have been right up there but he spent 15 laps racing Alonso when he didn't have to. Vettel would have IMO been on the podium otherwise. I think they were similar on race pace when both in clean air on the mediums with DR slightly quicker due to the fresher tires but I don't have the lap times with me.

 

Either way, the two stopper for Vettel would have been the maximum result Red Bull would have achieved as they were not going to catch Bottas. What hurt Vettel was his time behind Alonso, just like in Canada when he got stuck behind Hulkenburg. Both times Ricciardo capitalized which is why he ended up with the win/podium.

 

RE Rosberg, I think it will be achievement if he beats Hamilton but I will always consider Hamilton in the top tier as you always know he has one or two tenths in hand. Just like when Lewis was team mates with Button, despite Button winning on points many fans still don't consider Button top tier and I'm one of them. Anyone remember the last time Rosberg has come through the field to post an impressive result? (excluding this years dominate car)