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Vettel calling his RB10 a cucumber


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#1 steferrari

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 21:38

Vettel: "With our cucumber we can do nothing on the straight lines. There's still a lack of power... and it's frustrating."

Wow.

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#2 Seanspeed

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 21:39

I don't know what that's even supposed to mean, but its hilarious all the same.

And I feel him, man. Ferrari has the same damn problem and it certainly is frustrating. I can only imagine what its like as an actual competitor.

I still feel that the Mercedes powerplant advantage is hurting the season. That's not sour grapes, either. Just makes it so that we're not really seeing who has built a better car in many respects, particularly when talking about customer teams like Lotus, McLaren, Force India, Williams, Toro Rosso, and yes, even Red Bull, who are factory team in name, but still don't actually develop their own engines.

Ferrari has no excuse, I hate to say.

But anyways, it means overtaking is nearly impossible for many cars.

Edited by Seanspeed, 09 June 2014 - 21:44.


#3 meddo

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 21:39

He wants his bonus, no matter if it¨s from RedBull or from Renault penalties. I knew Dr. Helmut was onto something.....



#4 charly0418

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 21:40

The engine is crap, the chasis is amazing. He should thank the people in Milton Keys for providing the aero to make up the deficit of the engine


Edited by charly0418, 09 June 2014 - 21:41.


#5 steferrari

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 21:43

Also reported by ANSA just in case someone wants a source. ;)

http://www.ansa.it/s...8f48f7a564.html

Apparently he also criticised the strategy and said: "I'm not here for coming 2nd or 3rd".

Edited by steferrari, 09 June 2014 - 21:44.


#6 scheivlak

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 21:43

Vettel: "With our cucumber we can do nothing on the straight lines. There's still a lack of power... and it's frustrating."

Wow.

Source?

 

Pre-race or post race? Have to ask because "Cucumber wins F1 race" is such a nice headline  :D



#7 Zava

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 21:44

so we have the answer what is the problem with renault: they are using Karthikeyan as their engine.



#8 steferrari

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 21:45

Source?
 Pre-race or post race? Have to ask because "Cucumber wins F1 race" is such a nice headline  :D


See post above yours. ;)

#9 Richard T

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 21:46

22699844.jpg



#10 Risil

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 21:49

Harder to complain when your teammate's quicker than you.



#11 Fastcake

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 21:50

I thought Narain Karthikeyan was the cucumber?



#12 Fonzey

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 21:55

I'm sure that comment was part tongue in cheek after the Karthikeyan incident. Funny stuff, nothing worse than Alonso's wittering over the last few years!



#13 TurboF1

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 22:00

:D Oh the irony!

#14 midgrid

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 22:03

I would have thought that the cucumber is one of the more aerodynamic of the vegetables.  True, it lacks the tapered, purposeful nose of your average carrot or parsnip, the zing of an onion or the versaility of a potato, but it's a damn sight better than dragging a broccoli floret around the track, manhandling a cabbage around without all the leaves coming off, or even trying to assemble a bag of frozen peas into something raceworthy.  Vettel should be thankful for what he's got! 



#15 scheivlak

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 22:05

See post above yours.  ;)

That's not the most enlightening source, if only because of that "Also" in your post   ;)



#16 Exb

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 22:13

:rotfl:

He has a point - ridiculous how slow the Red Bull is in a straight line, couldn't get near a (healthy) Mercedes car on the straights (even with DRS and fresher tyres)

 

Still not a clever thing to say, it certainly won't give the people working all hours to try and improve things any extra motivation - that engine has come a long way since the start of the year and now looks better than the Ferrari one and the chassis itself is amazing again - he could be in a much worse position.



#17 solochamp07

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 22:16

Title is a bit misleading. The reference to "lack of power" suggests Seb is whinging specifically about the Renault PU and not the RB10 chassis. A quick look over at all the other Renault teams should give anyone a solid indication of just how good that chassis is. I shudder to think what their pace would look like if they had MB power in there.



#18 bourbon

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 22:16

Lmao!  You tell um Vettel. 

 

And I agree the Strategy was S%#$!!  As if Red Bull was not responsible for pulling both drivers in according to their track position and getting them back out similarly.

 

On top of that,  Ferrari Jr. Red Bull just needs to:  LET THEM RACE!!!



#19 George Costanza

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 22:25

If RBR had a Mercedes Power Unit, he would be chasing title #5. I have no doubt about that.



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#20 George Costanza

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 22:27

Title is a bit misleading. The reference to "lack of power" suggests Seb is whinging specifically about the Renault PU and not the RB10 chassis. A quick look over at all the other Renault teams should give anyone a solid indication of just how good that chassis is. I shudder to think what their pace would look like if they had MB power in there.

 

It would look like the RB6.



#21 Tommay

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 22:32

If RBR had a Mercedes Power Unit, he would be chasing title #5. I have no doubt about that.


The chassis isn't a match for the Mercedes. Prove is that Riccardo didn't pull in Rosberg that much trough in sector 1 and 2 despite the obvious issues. The Mercedes is better with equal engines

#22 Farhannn15

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 22:36

Would love to see a Hamilton, Rosberg , Vettel and Ricciardo scrap. Four quality drivers battling it out. Probably next season though

#23 4MEN

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 22:37

Vettel: "With our cucumber we can do nothing on the straight lines. There's still a lack of power... and it's frustrating."

Wow.

S.D.Q. material.



#24 George Costanza

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 22:40

Would love to see a Hamilton, Rosberg , Vettel and Ricciardo scrap. Four quality drivers battling it out. Probably next season though

 

Put Fred and Kimi there when Ferrari gets the car right.



#25 PayasYouRace

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 22:41

Seb's losing his creative touch when it comes to car names. I shudder to think what would happen if you brought Kate's Dirty Sister and a Cucumber together though.



#26 Mauseri

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 22:43

Harder to complain when your teammate's quicker than you.

Easy to complain when your team tells you to stay behind teammate and gave your teammate a strategy to block your way forward?

 

I'm starting to think Ricciardo is Red Bulls favorite driver this season, for whatever reason, maybe to make their driver academy look good or something. But hard to complain as Vettel is product of the same company. Now make him look bad and he will not get top seats from other teams.



#27 KingTiger

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 22:44

The nerve of complaining after having the best car of the last 5 years.

 

Red Bull have poor aero efficiency and a lot of drag, that is why Mercedes is so much faster, not because of engine alone. 



#28 Seanspeed

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 22:45

Seb's losing his creative touch when it comes to car names. I shudder to think what would happen if you brought Kate's Dirty Sister and a Cucumber together though.

lol

The nerve of complaining after having the best car of the last 5 years.

Red Bull have poor aero efficiency and a lot of drag, that is why Mercedes is so much faster, not because of engine alone.

Much of it is the powerplant, without doubt.

Edited by Seanspeed, 09 June 2014 - 22:46.


#29 Redback

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 22:47

Lmao!  You tell um Vettel. 

 

And I agree the Strategy was S%#$!!  As if Red Bull was not responsible for pulling both drivers in according to their track position and getting them back out similarly.

 

On top of that,  Ferrari Jr. Red Bull just needs to:  LET THEM RACE!!!

Come on Bourbon, - be serious.

 

Seb complained of graining tyres and they gave him the undercut, - exactly what he requested.

 

It was Dan's in-lap that accounted for the leap-frog.  When it mattered, Dan made the right moves.  You can't blame the team for that.

 

To quote Chistian Horner: "Seb reported that he was in trouble with the tyres and was pushing us to look at strategy, so we went for the undercut to get him into a bit of clear air.  We pitted Dan a lap later and his in-lap was massively impressive. It was that in-lap that did the damage because the pitstops were within 0.2 seconds of each other."

 

As for the Cucumber remark, - I suspect it's the PU to which he's referring, not the car itself.



#30 baddog

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 22:52

Nah they just wanted 'Danial wins first race!' headlines and the extra publicity that comes from Daniel being a 'top' driver, as of next race it will be Vettel back in front. You heard it here first.



#31 Kingshark

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 23:42

The nerve of complaining after having the best car of the last 5 years.

 

This.

 

Vettel needs to spend a few more years in worse machinery.

 

Even this season he's had it relatively easy. The RB10 is comfortably the 2nd best car on the grid.



#32 crbassassin

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 00:04

If RBR had a Mercedes Power Unit, he would be chasing title #5. I have no doubt about that.

Or if Mercedes had RB chassis, they would be winning by miles



#33 Brother Fox

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 00:17

I thought he would relish the opportunity to work out of this pickle

#34 v@sh

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 00:38

Easy to complain when your team tells you to stay behind teammate and gave your teammate a strategy to block your way forward?

 

I don't understand the complaints about strategy:

 

- Red Bull had to cover off Bottas otherwise he would have got in front of Vettel

- Vettel pitted the lap before Ricciardo (which meant he got the undercut)

- If Vettel stayed out he would have been stuck behind Hulkenburg anyway and lost out to both Bottas and Ricciardo (who knows how long FI were going to stay out for)

- Ricciardo jumped Vettel by doing a great in-lap

- Pitstops were within 0.2 of a second of each other

 

So tell me how they are giving his team-mate a strategy to block his way forward when it was in fact the opposite and Ricciardo made the most of the opportunity by putting in a fast lap?


Edited by v@sh, 10 June 2014 - 00:39.


#35 Exb

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 00:42

Or if Mercedes had RB chassis, they would be winning by miles


Isn't that already happening. Mercedes don't need a Red Bull chassis, they have a great one of their own.
Red Bull do not have a great engine so I can understand Vettels frustration, he saw a win slip through his fingers by getting held up behind Hulkenberg for so long, his car was much faster over a lap but didn't have a hope of getting past. I just don't believe him criticising Renault in public is the correct thing to do and certainly won't make the engine any more powerful - maybe Renault did drop the ball a bit but we can all see that, and Renault are doing what they can to rectify the situation (and have done an amazing job considering the fact they are limited by the homologation rules) its a bit of a shame as it could be an epic fight between the 2 Mercedes drivers and the 2 Red Bull drivers but that is the way it goes in F1, Mercedes have just done a better job on the engines this year. Still its now a race winning car and is clearly the 2nd best car out there. At least he is not driving a Ferrari, then he might have an excuse to moan  ;).

Edited by Exb, 10 June 2014 - 00:42.


#36 Paul McLucas

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 00:43

I don't understand the complaints about strategy:

 

- Red Bull had to cover off Bottas otherwise he would have got in front of Vettel

- Vettel pitted the lap before Ricciardo (which meant he got the undercut)

- If Vettel stayed out he would have been stuck behind Hulkenburg anyway and lost out to both Bottas and Ricciardo (who knows how long FI were going to stay out for)

- Ricciardo jumped Vettel by doing a great in-lap

- Pitstops were within 0.2 of a second of each other

 

So tell me how they are giving his team-mate a strategy to block his way forward when it was in fact the opposite and Ricciardo made the most of the opportunity by putting in a fast lap?

Seb's outlap was pretty ordinary also.



#37 v@sh

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 00:47

Seb's outlap was pretty ordinary also.

 

Absolutely, unfortunate for him that he came out just behind Kimi. Wouldn't have helped him.



#38 bourbon

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 01:53

Come on Bourbon, - be serious.

 

Seb complained of graining tyres and they gave him the undercut, - exactly what he requested.

 

It was Dan's in-lap that accounted for the leap-frog.  When it mattered, Dan made the right moves.  You can't blame the team for that.

 

To quote Chistian Horner: "Seb reported that he was in trouble with the tyres and was pushing us to look at strategy, so we went for the undercut to get him into a bit of clear air.  We pitted Dan a lap later and his in-lap was massively impressive. It was that in-lap that did the damage because the pitstops were within 0.2 seconds of each other."

 

As for the Cucumber remark, - I suspect it's the PU to which he's referring, not the car itself.

 

Wrong.  I don't blame Daniel one bit.  That is racing and he did what any red blooded racer would do.

 

Horner's PR speak only addresses it from Daniel's point of view - and that is correct, Daniel was impressive and had the right to take what he could make from that (being in front of Vettel on the exit).  BUT, That is where the problem occurs, because if that was the Red Bull philosophy, then Red Bull should have also allowed Seb, on his "massively impressive" warmer tyres, to race Dan for his position back.  Instead, they gave the order for Seb to back off.  

 

They've been giving all kinds of orders to Seb this season - and when he was puttering around like a tug boat and Dan was on a different strategy, okay - but not when Seb was doing faster times behind.  In other words, if they are going to be handing out orders anyway, why not give it to Dan to stay behind Seb where he was before the pit stop and let him be "massively impressive" overtaking Seb?   The team knew the relative speed Seb would be able to do behind the Hulk and what Ricciardo would be able to do in his position before their stops, so if they were going to make choices about team orders, then they should have applied it to allow the status quo to stand. 

 

OR give no orders at all which is MY preferred solution - and let Daniel do his thing like he did, which was mega cool and then let Seb do his thing once they met up on track and fight for position.  LET THEM RACE.  All fair. :up:


Edited by bourbon, 10 June 2014 - 02:03.


#39 BenettonB192

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 02:11

Cucumber is just German slang for a slow car. Completely harmless.



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#40 sanjiro

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 02:20

Bourbon

 

The advice to SV was strategic and for HIM, not to benefit RBR or DR

They specific instruction was to SAVE tyres till DRs were shot so they could make an easy pass

NOT to BACK off so DR could win

 

SV didnt back of DR, so he ignored that suggestion anyway

They also suggested to DR that he back off... he didnt

 

The Renault engine is a %$#@ box

So BOTH SV and DR had issues on the day passing much slower cars

A shame given its an easy track to pass on, if only you have an actual F1 engine rather than the 2CV engine Renault provided.


Edited by sanjiro, 10 June 2014 - 02:21.


#41 garagetinkerer

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 02:36

The chassis isn't a match for the Mercedes. Prove is that Riccardo didn't pull in Rosberg that much trough in sector 1 and 2 despite the obvious issues. The Mercedes is better with equal engines

I'm also of the opinion that both Mercedes and Ferrari may have a better chassis.



#42 Brother Fox

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 02:38

If Ferrari have a better chassis then their engine is the worst by miles

#43 icecream

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 02:39

...

A shame given its an easy track to pass on, if only you have an actual F1 engine rather than the 2CV engine Renault provided.

 

the RB has never been particular good for overtaking, which was fine when you qualified out front.

 

considering the hp handicap, red bull are showing their class in being consistently best of the rest. 



#44 Melbourne Park

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 02:44

....

A shame given its an easy track to pass on, if only you have an actual F1 engine rather than the 2CV engine Renault provided.

 

 

2CV was a Citroen ...

 

 

But the 2CV did feature a mass damper. Later used by, ahh,  erhh ... Renault, in their Michelin equipped F1 car, being best driven by Alonso.


Edited by Melbourne Park, 10 June 2014 - 02:46.


#45 Thomas99

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 03:03

That cucumber just won a race. Musn't be too bad.



#46 bourbon

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 03:09

Bourbon

 

The advice to SV was strategic and for HIM, not to benefit RBR or DR

They specific instruction was to SAVE tyres till DRs were shot so they could make an easy pass

NOT to BACK off so DR could win

 

SV didnt back of DR, so he ignored that suggestion anyway

They also suggested to DR that he back off... he didnt

 

The Renault engine is a %$#@ box

So BOTH SV and DR had issues on the day passing much slower cars

A shame given its an easy track to pass on, if only you have an actual F1 engine rather than the 2CV engine Renault provided.

 

I have live timing.  Seb backed off from moving in (.5, .4, .3) to out (.3, .5., .8, 1.3) when he got the order.   It wasn't a suggestion, it was a strategic order - back off because DR is going to chew up his tyres chasing Perez and we'll race him in the end.    But why not tell Dan to not race out in front of his teammate after the pitstop and let Seb (on warmer tyres) catch Perez and have Dan sit back there and wait if and until Seb chewed up his tyres?

 

I know your answer:  Because Dan had this great outlap and in lap blah blah blah.  But I have an answer for that - and Seb had a great lap warming his tyres and like Malaysia 13, he was prime for overtaking his teammate on cold tyres and getting his position back, but he was stopped from taking that advantage he'd made for himself - as Dan had done for himself. 

 

The answer is leave them alone and let them race.  No suggestions or fair ones.  Seb had position - the team had the ability to ensure he retained it and the responsibility to allow him to retake it if he lost it.  But they once again stuck their noses in it. 

 

When I made this same argument after Silverstone on Mark's behalf, nobody argued with me - we were all holding hands then.  But when it is Seb who is screwed, there are suddenly all these great reasons for tolerating team orders suggestions from the team.

 

Anyway, I've made my position clear and if not:  NO TEAM ORDERS RBR!  LET THEM RACE!


Edited by bourbon, 10 June 2014 - 03:11.


#47 Nustang70

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 03:17

If RBR had a Mercedes Power Unit, he would be chasing title #5. I have no doubt about that.

"Chasing" might be the optimal word here, since he'd still be behind Ricciardo.    ;)



#48 sanjiro

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 03:32

2CV was a Citroen ...

 

 

But the 2CV did feature a mass damper. Later used by, ahh,  erhh ... Renault, in their Michelin equipped F1 car, being best driven by Alonso.

 

 

Yes it IS Citroen (there are places still making them)

That was my point (although apparently a little too subtle)

engine... crap... under powered, unreliable and not representing anything of the breeding one expects from a Renault race engine



#49 sanjiro

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 03:40

I have live timing.  Seb backed off from moving in (.5, .4, .3) to out (.3, .5., .8, 1.3) when he got the order.   It wasn't a suggestion, it was a strategic order - back off because DR is going to chew up his tyres chasing Perez and we'll race him in the end.    But why not tell Dan to not race out in front of his teammate after the pitstop and let Seb (on warmer tyres) catch Perez and have Dan sit back there and wait if and until Seb chewed up his tyres?

 

I know your answer:  Because Dan had this great outlap and in lap blah blah blah.  But I have an answer for that - and Seb had a great lap warming his tyres and like Malaysia 13, he was prime for overtaking his teammate on cold tyres and getting his position back, but he was stopped from taking that advantage he'd made for himself - as Dan had done for himself. 

 

The answer is leave them alone and let them race.  No suggestions or fair ones.  Seb had position - the team had the ability to ensure he retained it and the responsibility to allow him to retake it if he lost it.  But they once again stuck their noses in it. 

 

When I made this same argument after Silverstone on Mark's behalf, nobody argued with me - we were all holding hands then.  But when it is Seb who is screwed, there are suddenly all these great reasons for tolerating team orders suggestions from the team.

 

Anyway, I've made my position clear and if not:  NO TEAM ORDERS RBR!  LET THEM RACE!

 

 

I think you are wrong in your ASSUMPTION that the SUGGESTION was aimed at helping DR fight for position. (SV often ignores the pit wall, so anything said to him is only a suggestion) 

SV has had tyre degradation issues this year, they need to work with that not against it

 

you are seeing a conspiracy here Bourbon

One with less legs than almost all of the ones us old MW fans saw

 

And...this is best left to the SV vs DR thread 

 

here... the engine is rubbish

but the Mercs have a great chassis as well as great engine so even if the Renault was better is no guarantee of success in 2014



#50 ollebompa

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 03:52

Just poor translation. It's a word which should be translated to "slow car". Reporters are coping and pasteing into Google translate, lazy people.


Edited by ollebompa, 10 June 2014 - 19:35.