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Bristol/Bath Lotus 56 turbine talk


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#1 Michael Oliver

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 13:18

I hope you don't mind me drawing attention to the next Club Lotus Avon meeting, on Tuesday 17th June, where I will be giving a talk about the Lotus 56 turbine.

 

The venue is The Bull Inn at Hinton (SN14 8HG), adjacent to Junction 18 of the M4. Please note: although their website says the pub is closed (due to new owners taking over), they are opening up specially for this event, which starts at 8pm and is free.

 

If you are travelling a long distance, the organiser Rob Ford (07812 353976) recommends checking with him on the day that it is all going ahead.

 

More details of the Club Lotus Avon nights here: http://www.ferrarite....net/clublotus/

 

I look forward to meeting a few TNFers on the night hopefully!

 

Michael

 

 



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#2 Tim Murray

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 18:38

Arttidesco and I are planning to be there, and looking forward to it. Anyone thinking of coming who hasn't been to a Club Lotus Avon talk before is recommended to bring a cushion with them - the seats are a trifle hard. ;)

#3 Michael Oliver

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 14:38

Excellent Tim, look forward to meeting you both then!



#4 2F-001

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 14:46

This sounds interestingā€¦ I'm trying to offload some other commitments so that I might attend too.

#5 Michael Oliver

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 15:21

This sounds interestingā€¦ I'm trying to offload some other commitments so that I might attend too.

 

Hope to see you there Tony!



#6 VWV

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 16:26

I hope you don't mind me drawing attention to the next Club Lotus Avon meeting, on Tuesday 17th June, where I will be giving a talk about the Lotus 56 turbine.

 

The venue is The Bull Inn at Hinton (SN14 8HG), adjacent to Junction 18 of the M4. Please note: although their website says the pub is closed (due to new owners taking over), they are opening up specially for this event, which starts at 8pm and is free.

 

If you are travelling a long distance, the organiser Rob Ford (07812 353976) recommends checking with him on the day that it is all going ahead.

 

More details of the Club Lotus Avon nights here: http://www.ferrarite....net/clublotus/

 

I look forward to meeting a few TNFers on the night hopefully!

 

Michael

 

Michael, is there any chance of recording this talk for a podcast or on Youtube for those of us who can not attend? I would be very interested in hearing your talk of the 56.



#7 zepunishment

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 22:21

Michael, is there any chance of recording this talk for a podcast or on Youtube for those of us who can not attend? I would be very interested in hearing your talk of the 56.


Seconded, would be most interested to hear this!

#8 Michael Oliver

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 11:22

Michael, is there any chance of recording this talk for a podcast or on Youtube for those of us who can not attend? I would be very interested in hearing your talk of the 56.

 

I'm a bit conflicted as to whether or not to do this! I appreciate that for those who are not in easy reach of Bath it is disappointing but from my point of view, I'm not sure I want to put the results of my research permanently in the public domain just yet!

 

I'm happy to talk in person to a special interest group about it but I may want to publish something in the future and I don't want to pre-empt that. I hope that makes sense?! I may record it anyway and, if I decide not to publish my findings in book form, then I would be happy to put it out as a podcast or on YouTube. Does that sound fair?



#9 Pullman99

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 11:46

I'm a bit conflicted as to whether or not to do this! I appreciate that for those who are not in easy reach of Bath it is disappointing but from my point of view, I'm not sure I want to put the results of my research permanently in the public domain just yet!

 

I'm happy to talk in person to a special interest group about it but I may want to publish something in the future and I don't want to pre-empt that. I hope that makes sense?! I may record it anyway and, if I decide not to publish my findings in book form, then I would be happy to put it out as a podcast or on YouTube. Does that sound fair?

Sorry not to be able to make it to this event.   The Lotus 56 story is one of the most fascinating in automotive history and I look forward to reading the fruits of your researches in due course.   One of my all-time favourite racing cars from a time when Lotus was pre-eminent in promoting innovation.    A number of the 56s - including the 56B I think - are currently on show in a gas turbine exhibition at The Indianapolis Motor Speedway museum.  I still have the T shirt - bought at the Bristish GP in 1971 - featuring the 56B with the slogan "It's a Gas Man!"    They don't write them like that anymore...



#10 VWV

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 12:58

I'm a bit conflicted as to whether or not to do this! I appreciate that for those who are not in easy reach of Bath it is disappointing but from my point of view, I'm not sure I want to put the results of my research permanently in the public domain just yet!

 

I'm happy to talk in person to a special interest group about it but I may want to publish something in the future and I don't want to pre-empt that. I hope that makes sense?! I may record it anyway and, if I decide not to publish my findings in book form, then I would be happy to put it out as a podcast or on YouTube. Does that sound fair?

 

 

Michael, I totally understand this point of of view and respect it. I was just asking. I live in Ontario, Canada, about a 3 hour drive from IMRRC in Watkins Glen. I try and make it to many of the talks at the center as I can but for the ones I can't I buy the DVD (usually $10) of the presentation as the IMRRC has been recording the presentations so I can be virtually there. Unfortunately, I was not able to be at the center for your Lotus 49 talk and the center was not recording at that time. I would hope that at some point in time those of us with interest in this car can hear your presentation.

 

 

I am glad that you are considering doing a book on the 56 and will definitely be purchasing it when available. I am still sad that you never did the Lotus 78 & 79 book that you were planning on at one point.

 


Edited by VWV, 17 June 2014 - 13:11.


#11 Michael Oliver

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 14:38

Michael, I totally understand this point of of view and respect it. I was just asking. I live in Ontario, Canada, about a 3 hour drive from IMRRC in Watkins Glen. I try and make it to many of the talks at the center as I can but for the ones I can't I buy the DVD (usually $10) of the presentation as the IMRRC has been recording the presentations so I can be virtually there. Unfortunately, I was not able to be at the center for your Lotus 49 talk and the center was not recording at that time. I would hope that at some point in time those of us with interest in this car can hear your presentation.

 

 

I am glad that you are considering doing a book on the 56 and will definitely be purchasing it when available. I am still sad that you never did the Lotus 78 & 79 book that you were planning on at one point.

 

I sympathise with your predicament. I'd be happy to come over to USA/Canada to do a series of talks (I have presentations on Lotus 49, Lotus 56, Lotus 72 and Cosworth now) if there was enough interest shown from enough Lotus or other motor clubs...sure it could be arranged! I'd love to go back to the IMRRC at some point too, definitely.



#12 Michael Oliver

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 14:40

Sorry not to be able to make it to this event.   The Lotus 56 story is one of the most fascinating in automotive history and I look forward to reading the fruits of your researches in due course.   One of my all-time favourite racing cars from a time when Lotus was pre-eminent in promoting innovation.    A number of the 56s - including the 56B I think - are currently on show in a gas turbine exhibition at The Indianapolis Motor Speedway museum.  I still have the T shirt - bought at the Bristish GP in 1971 - featuring the 56B with the slogan "It's a Gas Man!"    They don't write them like that anymore...

 

Sorry you can't make it. I agree with you re the 56s, they have always captivated me in a way that few other cars have. You are right about the 56s and 56B being on display at Indy. I am hoping to make it over at some point.

 

Treasure that T-shirt!



#13 Gary C

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 14:47

........Bob Dance once told me that he thought the Indy 56's were the best constructed Lotus race cars-ever.



#14 arttidesco

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 23:31

Thanks for coming West, Michael, enjoyed the talk and meeting you along with TNFers Tony (2F-001), Ian (E.B.) and Charles Helps, always good to put a face to a car :wave:

 

Of course it is also always a pleasure to also enjoy the company of The Bull regulars Mr Murray and Ron54 too ! :smoking:



#15 Tim Murray

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 06:24

Agreed absolutely - an excellent evening. A fascinating talk from Michael, and a goodly collection of TNFers, including Tony all the way from London. It was good to finally meet Charles after a couple of near misses in the past.

#16 Collombin

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 06:58

It was well worth the sore bum. And that's not a sentence I ever imagined having to use in my entire lifetime.

An extremely good talk, complemented by a superb collection of photos (almost all of which were new to me), and at least one myth debunked.

Good to meet Ralph and Tim (again) too, as well as Michael himself of course - we now eagerly anticipate the forthcoming book...........

#17 2F-001

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 11:13

A very interesting evening, and thoroughly well-researched - just as you would expect! Amazing how just four chassis (and their small number of 'clones') can leave behind them such a tangled (and sometimes disputed) history!

Ian - sorry we didn't get to speak before we all left. I confess I hadn't realised Charles was thereā€¦ likewise - apologies - it would have nice to meet properly.

Edited by 2F-001, 18 June 2014 - 11:15.


#18 Michael Oliver

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 11:47

Thanks to everyone who came - it was great to meet so many TNFers. As Ralph says, it was good to put faces to names on the forum. Tony (2F-001) made an especially impressive effort to be there, coming all the way to Bath from Crystal Palace, I'm flattered that someone would go to so much effort to hear me talk!



#19 Charles E Taylor

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 16:59

Indianapolis, May 2014

 

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=n2KVAay9P3Y

 

 

 

Charlie



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#20 ron54

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 19:02

Yes a good evening had by all I reckon, and thanks to everyone concerned with organising it.

On the way home I thought of questions I should have asked (as is often the case).....particurlarly;
Presumably the transmission incorporated some kind of clutch,can someone tell me what type?.
Would the effect of the turbine spinning have any torque effect on the chassis/handling etc?-that would have
required any compensatory effort from the driver?

My apologies to Mr Oliver for not bringing this up on the night,, Phill.

#21 Sisyphus

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 19:45

I sympathise with your predicament. I'd be happy to come over to USA/Canada to do a series of talks (I have presentations on Lotus 49, Lotus 56, Lotus 72 and Cosworth now) if there was enough interest shown from enough Lotus or other motor clubs...sure it could be arranged! I'd love to go back to the IMRRC at some point too, definitely.

 

Well, if you're ever planning to be in Los Angeles, Michael, I'm pretty sure I could organize an SAE section meeting for a talk on any of those topics (I'm on the governing board)!  Lots of Lotus fans in the area, I think.  A special trip over for just us would be a bit too much for our finances (although no doubt well worth it!) but if you're in the US and not too far away (Monterey Historics perhaps?) maybe we could arrange something.



#22 Collombin

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 20:32

Would the effect of the turbine spinning have any torque effect on the chassis/handling etc?-that would haverequired any compensatory effort from the driver?


I believe that the two shafts (gas generator and power) rotated in opposite directions so no such problems arose.

Edited by E.B., 18 June 2014 - 20:36.


#23 smbrm

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 17:35

No clutch required as the compressor turbine rotor shaft driving the air compressor rotor was seperate from the power turbine rotor driving the power output shaft. So two turbine rotors seeing combustion gas driving the two stages. So you could hold the power turbine rotor(connected to the output drive), with the brakes while still maintaining air flow to the combustion chamber as the compressor section was free to rotate separately. So kind of like a torque converter in principle.

I believe the compressor turbine rotor also had its own fuel nozzles compared to the power turbine rotor, so you could manage their speed independently. That allowed them to keep the compressor spun up. If I recall correctly they used this for qualifying to get better punch out of the corners by having a high idle speed on the compressor, but not so much in race due to the higher fuel consumption. I think I have this explanation correct?

Edited by smbrm, 19 June 2014 - 17:36.


#24 ron54

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 16:04

No clutch required as the compressor turbine rotor shaft driving the air compressor rotor was seperate from the power turbine rotor driving the power output shaft. So two turbine rotors seeing combustion gas driving the two stages. So you could hold the power turbine rotor(connected to the output drive), with the brakes while still maintaining air flow to the combustion chamber as the compressor section was free to rotate separately. So kind of like a torque converter in principle.

I believe the compressor turbine rotor also had its own fuel nozzles compared to the power turbine rotor, so you could manage their speed independently. That allowed them to keep the compressor spun up. If I recall correctly they used this for qualifying to get better punch out of the corners by having a high idle speed on the compressor, but not so much in race due to the higher fuel consumption. I think I have this explanation correct?




I'm obliged to both of you for your explanations...thank you

#25 arttidesco

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 21:44

I'm obliged to both of you for your explanations...thank you

 

One problem with turbine powered vehicles not touched on is that they do not have a reverse gear  ;)



#26 Cargo

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 13:23

auction saturday.


Edited by Cargo, 29 May 2021 - 20:35.


#27 Terry Walker

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 13:52

Some time ago I posted some photos of G Hill in one of the cars, sans decals, taken by my old mate Dave Sullivan back in 68; probably Silverstone testing. Mike Spence was there, not to mention Colin Chapman.

 

I can probably beng them up again...


Edited by Terry Walker, 11 January 2015 - 13:52.


#28 Alan Cox

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 16:35

http://www.barrett-j...RACE-CAR-181235

The auction can be viewed live on the Discovery channel



#29 2F-001

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 12:28

Auction update (17.January): Though bidding reached a high of $1.2 million before stalling,

the Lotus 56 failed to meet its reserve price.

There's a joke in there somewhere: something about peak talk at stall...

 

Does anyone know if this car did eventually change hands?