86 replies to this topic

[Thomas99]

It's all well and good having the machinery, you still have to use it, and he did with devastating consequences. You can't honestly believe that Ricciardo is a better driver than Vettel, based on 7-8 races, and with Vettel being plagued with reliability issues this season. 

 

On that logic, i can claim that Rosberg is a better driver than Hamilton (I loathe Hamilton, but anyone can see he's better than Rosberg)...

 

I see that defending Vettel seems to be a big no-no on this forum...

 

What?

 

I never said for sure Ricciardo is better than Vettel, but it would be premature to declare Vettel is better than Ricciardo. All we can say is from 7 races Daniel has a slight edge and thats it. Who ends up being better won't be known for quite a while.

Edited by Thomas99, 15 June 2014 - 14:34.

[MetallurgicalHedonist]

I would hope this is a joke post. Nobody in their right mind would give up on a guy who's just won 4 consecutive titles, form is temporary, class is permanent. Ricciardo just happens to have adapted to the new cars quicker than Vettel has, because the Toro Rosso never had the grip that the Red Bull had, so it's less of a drastic change.

There shouldn't be any room for anybody to adapt qicker than a quadruple champion, unless he's "paper champion", as someone called him recently..

Come to think of that: We are talking about a quadruple champion.

That means, one (e.g. Prost) has to be nearly unbeatable against even very strong or the strongest other drivers (e.g. Lauda) out there. The only excuse there is for that kind of a driver, is, if you happen to face the probably fastest driver in F1 history (Senna).

Ricciardo shouldn't be able to adapt faster to the car, because Vettel is the quadruple one. If Ricciardo does adapt faster, then either Ricciardo is the next Godzilla after Senna which I pretty much doubt or Vettel is a paper champion.

Coming back to my Prost-quadruple parallel: were much younger team new entries like Alesi or Johansson adapting faster to more difficult cars than Prost was used to in previous years? No, and that's how it has to be. That's the duty of a driver with that much success.

[1Devil1]

Marko makes a fair point...... although I'm a little suprised that he's come out and said it.

 

So me thinks that Seb may well be chucking his toys out of the pram behind the scenes...... or took up the option with Ferrari. I'll ask my mate.

 

Anyways. I also agree that this does fuel the fire that Seb is a one-trick pony. He argues that the cars should be "beasts" and the like...... which is odd considering he spent the past 4 years driving a slot-car....... A car that produced so much downforce they had to drive at 80% a lot of the time because it would make its tyers go pop if they didn't........ 

 

Your mate, works for Mercedes, Ferrari and RedBull. Wow   All you had was a non story about Schumacher, denied multiple times, but please give us these valuable information  

[sennafan24]

 

I see that defending Vettel seems to be a big no-no on this forum...

You clearly do not read the forum much

 

Plenty of regulars defend him often, he is defended just as much as he is criticized

[bourbon]

It's all well and good having the machinery, you still have to use it, and he did with devastating consequences. You can't honestly believe that Ricciardo is a better driver than Vettel, based on 7-8 races, and with Vettel being plagued with reliability issues this season. 

 

On that logic, i can claim that Rosberg is a better driver than Hamilton (I loathe Hamilton, but anyone can see he's better than Rosberg)...

 

I see that defending Vettel seems to be a big no-no on this forum...

 

It is not a no-no, just tedious because you defend against the same tired arguments over and over by the same verbal group of posters.  There are not many Vettel fans, so contrary to what was stated above, Vettel is criticized far more than he is defended as you will see for yourself if you have a look around.  Vettel winning 4 WDCs is difficult for some, imo.

Edited by bourbon, 15 June 2014 - 17:28.

[sennafan24]

 There are not many Vettel fans, so contrary to what was stated above, Vettel is criticized far more than he is defended as you will see for yourself if you have a look around.  Vettel winning 4 WDCs is difficult for some, imo.

I do not think that is the exclusive reason. Plus in the D.R vs Seb thread, there are just as many neutrals and Pro-Seb fans than Anti-Seb posters. 

 

The fact is that whilst Seb has had problems out of his control (mechanical issues), he has not performed as well as expected this year relative to D.R. It is just natural he was get criticized. Nothing to do with his 4 WDC's. If a top driver is not performing well relative to his teammate, it is common sense to expect he will face scrutiny.

 

I am not surprised therefore that Marko has made this comment to Seb. It is expected (relative to D.R), that he would be doing better than this. As I said previously, only time will tell if the past 7 races mean much in the long run.

[bourbon]

I do not think that is the exclusive reason. Plus in the D.R vs Seb thread, there are just as many neutrals and Pro-Seb fans than Anti-Seb posters. 

 

The fact is that whilst Seb has had problems out of his control (mechanical issues), he has not performed as well as expected this year relative to D.R. It is just natural he was get criticized. Nothing to do with his 4 WDC's. If a top driver is not performing well relative to his teammate, it is common sense to expect he will face scrutiny.

 

 

 

I'm sure any poster can look around and figure it out for themselves.  Notably in the thread you mentioned.  But in this one too.  See below.

 

I am not surprised therefore that Marko has made this comment to Seb. It is expected (relative to D.R), that he would be doing better than this. As I said previously, only time will tell if the past 7 races mean much in the long run.

 

Which comment is that?  His statement in April that Seb had to raise his game and come to the car or his statement at the time of the article that Seb had done just that for the last 3 races? 

 

I would imagine the April comment is the one you are referring to, but you speak of Seb doing better than "this" which denotes the present and you also talk about 7 races when Marko had been speaking about 4.  So it would seem you are using the April comment to support a point you wish to make in consideration of the present (7 races completed).  Nevermind Oz, Malaysia, Barcelona, Monaco or the intrigues of Canada. 

 

Perhaps you do not feel your post requires a defense by Sebastian fans - but in reality, it intentionally or unintentionally makes it sound like you are supporting Benson's headline which he created for clicks - even though it is based on a 3 month old statement that is no longer relevant.  If it were a driver he preferred, his headline would focus on the present statement "Marko believes Seb has raised his game".  Because your post takes Benson's stance in the article - but worse, does not mention that it is 3 months old or that Marko has since updated that statement, and instead states that you are not surprised he made it because Seb should be doing better in your opinion after the 7 races, it merits a defense by Seb fans to show that the article does not support your belief.  And that others, more in the know than yourself, believe that Seb has raised his game to at least the level of Dan.  Considering he was ahead of Dan in Monaco before the engine blew and he beat him in Qually at Canada, and Dan's win was a result of a pit strategy pass - it is equally possible that Seb is doing better than Dan at this stage.  We do know their speeds have been matching during the race in the last 3 races, where in similar circumstances - but that is often proscribed by the team in order to save tyres and engines, etc.

 

To be honest, if I wasn't using this as an example, I probably would not have responded at all to you.  I can't defend every post I feel is unfair or incorrect written on forums about Seb and we don't have the numbers for this to be done as regularly as it is done for other drivers.  For example, Metalluricalhedonist's above post certainly merits a defense - paper champion indeed.  Imagine if I called Lewis a paper champion even in this thread, I'd have 15 posts to deal with, lol.  So again, I would say Seb is criticized much more than he is defended - even if posters don't recognize that their words merit one.

[Exb]

hmmm, wasn't going to comment further than what I posted in the versus thread but I can't help myself .
 

Masteroftheuniverse, on 15 Jun 2014 - 15:20, said:
I see that defending Vettel seems to be a big no-no on this forum...

I think Senna fan hit the nail on the head, I'm pretty neutral regarding the Red Bull drivers but I am loving the battle between them and I am more than happy to defend Vettel (and have done) as I do think he gets a lot of undeserved criticism but at the same time he's not perfect and sometimes it is deserved.

I think the raise your game comment was fair enough - in China Sebastian was plain disappointing, and that is when Marko suggests he made the comment however since then I can't really fault his driving to much and its just bad luck and circumstances that has seen him behind Daniel (and that's not to play down Daniels driving, who I think has maximised what he can get in the RB10).
 
However the comment that stands out to me (that no-one else has mentioned, so maybe I am reading to much into it?) is this one:

"With all these problems, maybe he wasn't as committed as he should have been

I think that's quite stinging. I always got the impression from odd comments and such like from those inside the paddock and team that Seb was one of the most hard working drivers but this comment kind of backs up a thought I had earlier this year that he was maybe not giving 100% this season (for whatever reason)- the fact he didn't stay and drive at the Bahrain test was a decision I found bizarre given his struggles and lack of running up to that point, it was a perfect opportunity to get some much needed track time to try out some different things/set-ups etc yet Daniel drove both days. Granted I know nothing about how the team decided this but I just found it odd, especially given he was one of the drivers who wanted to test the tyres in the retitled test at Silverstone last year despite other drivers not bothering as they thought it offered little gain. Like I said I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes at Red Bull - maybe he is putting in as much effort this year as in the past or maybe he is still working out how to juggle different priorities this year.

What I do find most odd (and intriguing) is why Dr Marko decided to make these comments public. (kind of like Seb criticising the 'slow' car) these comments are better to be made in private, I don't see what either party gains from publishing them. I mentioned in my other post it was Marko's way of 'ear tweaking' - maybe he is not happy with Seb's cucumber comments? or maybe he thinks making them public will make Seb more determined to get better results (a technique I think he often used to try on Webber), or maybe he has found out Seb is on his way to Ferrari/McLaren(insert silly season rumour here). and whilst its fun to speculate, that's the problem with these types of comments - it causes people and media to speculate which can only be a distraction to Red Bull and Vettel and also give his critics further ammunition (which is not really something they need given how this season has gone so far).

I know I will certainly watch with interest at the next GP to see if there are any repercussions from these comments but if they were aimed at my team I also know I would be worried that things weren't as harmonious within the team as I would want them to be.

[sennafan24]

Bourbon -Your recollection of the past few race weekends is a tad selective, but that would be a more relevant subject for the Seb vs D,R thread. The race in Canada you seen reluctant to accept there is a argument that D.R was the better driver.

 

If you did call Lewis a "paper champion", you would have a modest amount agreeing with you. I do not agree Seb is a "paper champion", and I think with the guy who said that, people are just ignoring him at this stage as he is a well known critic of Seb. I think you are being overly defensive of the recent criticism of Seb.

 

Fair enough if Marko made that comment after 4 races. We shall see how Seb performs from here on out.

Edited by sennafan24, 15 June 2014 - 22:03.

[bourbon]

hmmm, wasn't going to comment further than what I posted in the versus thread but I can't help myself .
 
I think Senna fan hit the nail on the head, I'm pretty neutral regarding the Red Bull drivers but I am loving the battle between them and I am more than happy to defend Vettel (and have done) as I do think he gets a lot of undeserved criticism but at the same time he's not perfect and sometimes it is deserved.[/quote]

 

Well I don't know what nail you think SennaFan hit on the head, but they were mistaken about when the comment was made by Marko and also about Seb being defended as much as he is criticized.  That does not mean he gets no defense, just not in proportion to the criticism. 

 
 

However the comment that stands out to me (that no-one else has mentioned, so maybe I am reading to much into it?) is this one:

Quote

"With all these problems, maybe he wasn't as committed as he should have been

 

 

 

I don't think you are reading too much into it.  I think with the baby, Michael and whatever else he may have had going on in life, it is highly likely that his focus and priorities were more divided than normal.  So that could be a very fair statement.  But it too refers to a pre-Barcelona time period.

 

 

What I do find most odd (and intriguing) is why Dr Marko decided to make these comments public. (kind of like Seb criticising the 'slow' car) these comments are better to be made in private, I don't see what either party gains from publishing them. I mentioned in my other post it was Marko's way of 'ear tweaking' - maybe he is not happy with Seb's cucumber comments? or maybe he thinks making them public will make Seb more determined to get better results (a technique I think he often used to try on Webber), or maybe he has found out Seb is on his way to Ferrari/McLaren(insert silly season rumour here). and whilst its fun to speculate, that's the problem with these types of comments - it causes people and media to speculate which can only be a distraction to Red Bull and Vettel and also give his critics further ammunition (which is not really something they need given how this season has gone so far).

 

Newey already made this public.  Newey told a reporter that he told Seb he'd have to adjust his driving to suit the car because they were not going to be able to configure the car the way he likes it.  So this was not something Marko decided to make public, it already was.   I guess it could be read as some sort of backhanded ear tweak     But it would have been grossly cut by his statement that Seb had improved to those expectations since. 

 

I think the comment in April was to spur Seb on - yes.  And I also think this interview went terribly awry as Marko intended for it to be positive.  He has also recently said that he understands Vettel being disappointed with the poorly performing car and it was RBR's responsibility to provide him with a good one.  So my feeling was that Marko was trying to 'be nice' - for Marko, lol.

 

I am inclined to agree with your point that Marko is a bit wary of Seb's thinking regarding his term at Red Bull.  Seb uncharacteristically said that his RBR contract was 'long enough' and he was looking at the 'short term'.  Now that is the statement I find intriguing. He might talk nebulously about driving for the Red Car or the great Mercedes one day, but never has he made a definitive statement about his contract length at Red Bull.  In fact, last year he stated something rather opposite.  We do not know what goes on behind the scenes or with the money or how Seb looks at how the season is going or his relationships with those at Red Bull - so we have no basis for reaching any conclusions as to why he said it.  However, Marko may. 

 

 

Fair enough if Marko made that comment after 4 races. We shall see how Seb performs from here on out.

 

But unfair that you did not read the article prior to posting - which is my point.  It states that in the first sentence.  If you had read it, you would have adjusted your post to account for what it said and then I would have no reason to post a defense - or correction - however you wish to look at it.

Edited by bourbon, 15 June 2014 - 23:18.

[sennafan24]

 

But unfair that you did not read the article prior to posting - which is my point.  It states that in the first sentence.  If you had read it, you would have adjusted your post to account for what it said and then I would have no reason to post a defense - or correction - however you wish to look at it.

Not really, I was aware of the timeframe of the comment. 

 

The fact is even after 7 races Seb is still not doing as well as expected relative to D,R, even if he has improved. My comment about 7 races was not linked to Marco's comments.

 

Not much has really changed in terms of results from China to Canada.

Edited by sennafan24, 15 June 2014 - 23:27.

[tghik]

What I do find most odd (and intriguing) is why Dr Marko decided to make these comments public. (kind of like Seb criticising the 'slow' car) these comments are better to be made in private

Vettel by the first 3 races blamed speed issues, power issues, DRC issues, down-shifting issues then he sat in the Ricciardo's cockpit to see for any differences. One speculated idea is that the conversation started in private, and that Marko mentioned to stop blaming everything around him and get on with it. Vettel took it as a criticism and reacted strongly then Helmut didn't like Seb's response and from private it became public.

[Exb]

Well I don't know what nail you think SennaFan hit on the head, but they were mistaken about Seb being defended as much as he is criticized.

I meant in the fact that there were posters (that are not just necessarily Vettel fans) that are prepared to defend him, in relation to masteroftheuniverse's post which implied that wasn't the case. I wasn't (and I don't think SennaFan was) comparing the amounts of critics versus fans/neutral people (nor am I going to). There are a couple of Vettel critics that post nonsense and I tend to ignore them as there is no point discussing what they post, they have a specific agenda and will not be swayed from their view point but there are a lot of posters that seem fair as well but I can understand how they would bother you, I get annoyed when posters start slating Magnussen for not beating Jenson, simultaneously criticising both drivers (one's a rookie and the other a world champ for crying out loud, it shouldn't be a surprise he is not matching him - grrr).
 

Newey already made this public.  Newey told a reporter that he told Seb he'd have to adjust his driving to suit the car because they were not going to be able to configure the car the way he likes it.

True, but that's not really the comment that isn't helpful - it is a reason as to why Seb was off the pace of Daniel and highlighted where there was room for improvement. The 'needs to raise his game' can only be taken as Seb isn't doing a good enough job and its that comment which provide the ammunition to his critics (see Benson's article in the first place if, like you think, Marko was being positive in the fact Seb has raised his game, that's kind of lost). Only Red Bull know if Seb has been giving 100% and it just took him a bit longer to get to grips with the new car (not helped by lack of running and reliability issues) or genuinely needed a kick up the backside after China but the last 3 races have been positive for Seb, but by now making it known he was given a 'talking to' it just adds more pressure onto Seb at the next race not to mention the possibility of unsettling his relationship with the team. Put it this way, I would be upset if my boss called me into the office and told me to 'raise my game' but I would make damn sure there was no room for further criticism of my work - if my boss then suggested he was now happy with my work but proceeded to tell the rest of the company I hadn't been doing a good enough job I would be absolutely livid and probably searching for job vacancies elsewhere. Now there is nothing to suggest Vettel will see the situation like I would, but it is a risk that didn't need to be taken if Dr Marko just kept his mouth shut.

[Exb]

Vettel by the first 3 races blamed speed issues, power issues, DRC issues, down-shifting issues then he sat in the Ricciardo's cockpit to see for any differences. One speculated idea is that the conversation started in private, and that Marko mentioned to stop blaming everything around him and get on with it. Vettel took it as a criticism and reacted strongly then Helmut didn't like Seb's response and from private it became public.

Very possible, which is why I mentioned Dr Marko 'ear tweaking' (and when I initially posted about this in the other thread that is exactly the route I took) but if that is the case it only highlights things are not rosy behind the scenes at Red Bull and if Vettel was upset before then who knows what he will think now. Maybe it will work and he will put his head down and concentrate on the car or maybe it will send him knocking on Ferrari's door? Any way its all speculation but its speculation that Red Bull could probably do without. That's why I will watch with interest and be glad its not my favourite team involved for once.

[Thomas99]

I' it is equally possible that Seb is doing better than Dan at this stage.  We do know their speeds have been matching during the race in the last 3 races, where in similar circumstances - but that is often proscribed by the team in order to save tyres and engines, etc.

 

Not really. Daniel was much faster at Bahrain and China, he beat Vettel fair and square at Canada. The only race Vettel has actually looked better is Malaysia.

[bourbon]

Not really, I was aware of the timeframe of the comment. 

 

The fact is even after 7 races Seb is still not doing as well as expected relative to D,R, even if he has improved. My comment about 7 races was not linked to Marco's comments.

 

Not much has really changed in terms of results from China to Canada.

 

Well I am sorry, but that places your comments in a worse light, imo.  We can just agree to disagree.

 

I meant in the fact that there were posters (that are not just necessarily Vettel fans) that are prepared to defend him, in relation to masteroftheuniverse's post which implied that wasn't the case.
 

 

Ah.  Agreed.

 

True, but that's not really the comment that isn't helpful - it is a reason as to why Seb was off the pace of Daniel and highlighted where there was room for improvement. The 'needs to raise his game' can only be taken as Seb isn't doing a good enough job and its that comment which provide the ammunition to his critics (see Benson's article in the first place if, like you think, Marko was being positive in the fact Seb has raised his game, that's kind of lost). Only Red Bull know if Seb has been giving 100% and it just took him a bit longer to get to grips with the new car (not helped by lack of running and reliability issues) or genuinely needed a kick up the backside after China but the last 3 races have been positive for Seb, but by now making it known he was given a 'talking to' it just adds more pressure onto Seb at the next race not to mention the possibility of unsettling his relationship with the team. Put it this way, I would be upset if my boss called me into the office and told me to 'raise my game' but I would make damn sure there was no room for further criticism of my work - if my boss then suggested he was now happy with my work but proceeded to tell the rest of the company I hadn't been doing a good enough job I would be absolutely livid and probably searching for job vacancies elsewhere. Now there is nothing to suggest Vettel will see the situation like I would, but it is a risk that didn't need to be taken if Dr Marko just kept his mouth shut.

 

 

Yeah, but it is Marko.  He is always saying things that are best left unsaid.  I doubt it upsets Vettel too much considering Marko is always doing it and I don't think many pay much attention to Marko anyway.  I haven't been participating in this thread much at all for that very reason - until the poster spoke about feeling like it was a no-no to defend Vettel.  That isn't cool and I can relate.

 

 

Meanwhile, Webber has weighed in. 

http://www.f1zone.ne...s-webber/39588/

Edited by bourbon, 16 June 2014 - 07:50.

[Schuttelberg]

Let Seb feel what Mark have felt all this years.

 

There are some differences between the two :-

 

1) Seb is a multi champion already and a proven article. He will always be remembered no matter what he does from here as he's in an elite class of people with his achievements. Mark will dwindle into the history books somewhere and just be a support driver who was brilliant on his day.

 

2) Seb will take it to Dan. I don't think a four time champion will simply be brushed aside or allow that to happen to him.

 

3) No matter what happens, Sebastian won't be a prick like Mark. He's a sport and he accepts losses far better. I think the major difference between the two is that Mark resorted to the microphone to beat Sebastian but something tells me Seb will try use the throttle pedal for Dan. He may fail because I believe Dan is real good, but Seb won't go down the ladies complain route.

[Thomas99]

 

3) No matter what happens, Sebastian won't be a prick like Mark. He's a sport and he accepts losses far better. I think the major difference between the two is that Mark resorted to the microphone to beat Sebastian but something tells me Seb will try use the throttle pedal for Dan. He may fail because I believe Dan is real good, but Seb won't go down the ladies complain route.

Im willing to bet if the team take upgrades off his car and give them to Daniel he'll complain.

[Schuttelberg]

Im willing to bet if the team take upgrades off his car and give them to Daniel he'll complain.

 

Has it happened yet? Is it a championship situation at RBR? Or are you into astrology?

 

At least if Dan has an opportunity to win the title at Abu Dhabi and Vettel doesn't, he won't go about being a prick on the circuit.

Edited by Schuttelberg, 16 June 2014 - 10:39.

[Maustinsj]

Didn't Mark Webber's wing get taken off him at Silverstone?

 

I guess we'll see in 2 weeks' time.

[tghik]

Yeah, but it is Marko.  He is always saying things that are best left unsaid.  I doubt it upsets Vettel too much considering Marko is always doing it and I don't think many pay much attention to Marko anyway.  I haven't been participating in this thread much at all for that very reason - until the poster spoke about feeling like it was a no-no to defend Vettel.  That isn't cool and I can relate.

As I reported after Monaco, there is already a rift, those 2 guys don't hold it in when not going well for them. In the future the rift will grow.

Edited by tghik, 16 June 2014 - 12:38.

[bub]

Fair comments from Marko. He's just stating the obvious really so I see no reason not to say it in public. I thought it was interesting that Vettel's main problem with the handling of the car was with rear stability, confirms what many people suspected. I thought it was weird that Vettel thinks the cars should be harder to drive. He seems to be finding it hard enough already compared to his teammate plus the cars have less grip and more torque this year so shouldn't that make them more difficult to drive?

[bub]

There are some differences between the two :-

 

3) No matter what happens, Sebastian won't be a prick like Mark. He's a sport and he accepts losses far better. I think the major difference between the two is that Mark resorted to the microphone to beat Sebastian but something tells me Seb will try use the throttle pedal for Dan. He may fail because I believe Dan is real good, but Seb won't go down the ladies complain route.

 

What is this based on? 

[Maustinsj]

What is this based on? 

 

Hero worship.

[jestaudio]

What is this based on? 

wishful thinking, Vettel may well be one of the best out there but he is first class prick

[MetallurgicalHedonist]

3) No matter what happens, Sebastian won't be a prick like Mark. He's a sport and he accepts losses far better. I think the major difference between the two is that Mark resorted to the microphone to beat Sebastian but something tells me Seb will try use the throttle pedal for Dan. He may fail because I believe Dan is real good, but Seb won't go down the ladies complain route.

Let me guess, you think that because he congratulated him very fair after the Canadian race?

Well, that doesn't mean much, as it is probably meaningless, because RedBull may not be competing for the championship. It gets interesting, if there is a championship situation like at AMG right now and when one of the drivers thinks that the other one played a false game in qualifying and doesn't shake hands with him after the following race.

In a similar situation like that, Vettel would become much more bitchy than Hamilton or Webber or Alonso or who ever one might think of...

[bourbon]

Let me guess, you think that because he congratulated him very fair after the Canadian race?

Well, that doesn't mean much, as it is probably meaningless, because RedBull may not be competing for the championship. It gets interesting, if there is a championship situation like at AMG right now and when one of the drivers thinks that the other one played a false game in qualifying and doesn't shake hands with him after the following race.

In a similar situation like that, Vettel would become much more bitchy than Hamilton or Webber or Alonso or who ever one might think of...

 

No he would not; we don't have to wait, we've already seen Sebastian in that situation.  Throughout 2010, where the battle between he and Mark was extremely tight for the championship, and which Mark led Sebastian for the title 90% of the time, and in which Mark led the WDC race overall about 3/4 of the season, Sebastian never manifested behavior of the type you assert in post session conferences or interviews.  Behind the scenes he may turn into the Incredible Hulk - he himself has advised he is emotionally explosive, but in public he has always kept his cool.   Webber was the one making public scenes and having fits in the press.   If you disagree, you will need to provide examples.

 

Another thing, Vettel is defending his title right now and his teammate is leading him in the WDC race - so if he were going to behave in an ugly manner as you state, he'd of done so after each race where his teammate had a better outcome.  So... no

Edited by bourbon, 16 June 2014 - 19:48.

[Kingshark]

This is the first time Marko has ever dared to criticize Vettel in public. Incredible. My esteem of Helmut Marko has gone up, maybe he doesn't have a blind man-love for Seb after all.

[tghik]

This is the first time Marko has ever dared to criticize Vettel in public. Incredible. My esteem of Helmut Marko has gone up, maybe he doesn't have a blind man-love for Seb after all.

Aren't we surprised sometimes lol Marko doesn't look like a guy who allows anybody to step on his toes. If vettel says anything against Helmut or disagrees with, we will hear more from him. Helmut isn't a person to prefer do things internally, he showed it with Webber. I'm sure this is not the last we get to see from the duo, especially if results don't come as expected.

[Schuttelberg]

No he would not; we don't have to wait, we've already seen Sebastian in that situation.  Throughout 2010, where the battle between he and Mark was extremely tight for the championship, and which Mark led Sebastian for the title 90% of the time, and in which Mark led the WDC race overall about 3/4 of the season, Sebastian never manifested behavior of the type you assert in post session conferences or interviews.  Behind the scenes he may turn into the Incredible Hulk - he himself has advised he is emotionally explosive, but in public he has always kept his cool.   Webber was the one making public scenes and having fits in the press.   If you disagree, you will need to provide examples.

 

Another thing, Vettel is defending his title right now and his teammate is leading him in the WDC race - so if he were going to behave in an ugly manner as you state, he'd of done so after each race where his teammate had a better outcome.  So... no

 

Thanks. Exactly my thoughts, no more to add. 

[blacky]

This is the first time Marko has ever dared to criticize Vettel in public. Incredible. My esteem of Helmut Marko has gone up, maybe he doesn't have a blind man-love for Seb after all.

 

Yesterday Helmut Marko in austrian Servus TV:

He used every situation to say: "Vettel is great, Vettel just unlucky this year", you get very fast the opinion that RIC is just the unloved second driver for Marko who should not be faster than Vettel. Although you see that Marko likes it very much when people praise him for discovering the underestimated RIC (Helmut, the sly fox...).

 

ps:

At the end he says he bets 100 euros on a VET win because he has a rate of 1:20 (Marko the gambler ).

[blacky]

Might just be for the intended audience (Germany I assume?).

 

You can watch Servus TV also in Germany, but it's mostly for people from Austria produced in hangar 7 in Salzburg.

 

Another good example was when Roger Benoit said that they would talk about an other theme (not about the Spielberg GP) when Massa would have hitted Vettel in Canada, Marko said then immediately that VET saw that and reacted intuitively. However some sentences later Benoit said that Massa FORTUNATELY didn't hit Vettel and promptly Marko interrupted him and said angrily and louder than normal "there was just no accident because of the world class of Vettel".

[ollebompa]

Why can't you people understand that everything Marko says is in the purpose of motivating? I can bet he came down hard on Dan after qualifying in Canada. Just like he did with Seb whenever he did not win or was on pole in previous years.

This is well thought out by the RB management.

[blacky]

This is well thought out by the RB management.

 

No.

When Marko speaks in his native language to TV-stations there are no PR-sentences or sth. like this, he only says what he thinks. After canada qualy he was so relieved that VET was faster than RIC that he answered to the sentence of Tanja Bauer who said "VET was faster than RIC" then "Yeah. Sebastian showed who is the true world champion".

[Thomas99]

You can watch Servus TV also in Germany, but it's mostly for people from Austria produced in hangar 7 in Salzburg.

 

Another good example was when Roger Benoit said that they would talk about an other theme (not about the Spielberg GP) when Massa would have hitted Vettel in Canada, Marko said then immediately that VET saw that and reacted intuitively. However some sentences later Benoit said that Massa FORTUNATELY didn't hit Vettel and promptly Marko interrupted him and said angrily and louder than normal "there was just no accident because of the world class of Vettel".

 

Marko clearly is and always has been a big Vettel fan. He always criticized Webber whilst praising Vettel.

 

I don't really care if Marko prefers when Seb wins as long as the drivers are given equal opportunity to win, equal strategy and development preference. Marko being Austrian is going to have naturally more swing to the Germanic nations then he will to Australia which he probably has very little to do with.

 

Ricciardo's results still reflect well on Marko.

 

 

 

No.

When Marko speaks in his native language to TV-stations there are no PR-sentences or sth. like this, he only says what he thinks. After canada qualy he was so relieved that VET was faster than RIC that he answered to the sentence of Tanja Bauer who said "VET was faster than RIC" then "Yeah. Sebastian showed who is the true world champion".

 

Yeah, thats worrying.

 

I have noticed a reluctance of Red Bull in the press to imply Ricciardo's superiority this year.

Edited by Thomas99, 17 June 2014 - 07:18.

[tghik]

Yesterday Helmut Marko in austrian Servus TV:

He used every situation to say: "Vettel is great, Vettel just unlucky this year", you get very fast the opinion that RIC is just the unloved second driver for Marko who should not be faster than Vettel. Although you see that Marko likes it very much when people praise him for discovering the underestimated RIC (Helmut, the sly fox...).

 

ps:

At the end he says he bets 100 euros on a VET win because he has a rate of 1:20 (Marko the gambler ).

It confirms that he didn't take Ric to challenge Vettel, that's why he rejected Raikonen, however he didn't predict Ric would be on Seb's level

 

Funny thing is now he gets praises for how well he spotted Ric, however it was not his intent lol

[lbennie]

Marko clearly is and always has been a big Vettel fan. He always criticized Webber whilst praising Vettel.

 

I don't really care if Marko prefers when Seb wins as long as the drivers are given equal opportunity to win, equal strategy and development preference. Marko being Austrian is going to have naturally more swing to the Germanic nations then he will to Australia which he probably has very little to do with.

 

Ricciardo's results still reflect well on Marko.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, thats worrying.

 

I have noticed a reluctance of Red Bull in the press to imply Ricciardo's superiority this year.

 

Very rarely an F1 team will big up one of their drivers at the expense of the other. I think you are asking too much.

 

And i disagree, horner, newey & helmut have all been heaping praise on dan this year.