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Future of F1


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#51 4MEN

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 20:54

I think that a lot of alcohol was served there.



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#52 D28

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 23:44

I think F1 has an identity crisis, with so many competing interests it no longer knows what it wants to be...

 

 

Manufacturers want it to be relevant to current volume road cars and their eco responsibilities, so they can justify the spend to their board

 

 

And why should this have anything to do with F1 racing?. Judging by their past history the large manufacturers have an enormously short commitment span for  racing, Just think of the comings,and  goings of Ford, BMW, Honda, Renault and M-B (mid 50s era).

F1 should never put themselves in a position where the manufacturers were able to dictate the new formula. Better to simply publish the formula and let the manufacturers  race, or sit and watch. There will always be a battle on the board of large corporations between the accrued financial benefits, and the interests of a few enthusiasts who simply want to race. The longterm interests of the sport are not well served by the auto companies having exaggerated influence in rule making.



#53 chipmcdonald

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 07:00

The bottom line is, the formula itself is sick.  Take the known drivers out of the series, replace them with Generic Rent a Drivers, and who would watch?

 

Put the same Generic Rent a Drivers in the cars from 2004 - you have entertainment. 

 

CAR RACING.

 

CAR RACING.

 

Not vacuum cleaner steroid-moped quasi-hybrid fuel sipper computer endurance testing.



#54 kar

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 10:00

I wrote about this a lot a few years ago, the future of F1 is not bright.

 

We can look at all the misc issues facing the sport right now, but I think they are really only peripheral, the main issue facing F1 is that of demographics.

 

So I'm in my early 30s, I got into F1 in the 80s when the F1 show rolled into Adelaide in 85 and I remember recess time hearing the roar of the cars from the city (and I lived and went to school in the hills!). It meant by saturday I was pumped up to go to the circuit and see the monsters in action. I can barely remember what happened *on track* but the atmosphere and the anticipation, those were the things that stuck. I would get up late to watch the races on TV, races in far flung (european) places I had no idea about. That helped cement my love for the sport. Those memories, those feelings have stuck with me my entire life. No matter what harm F1 contrives to inflict on itself, it's in my blood I am an F1 fan and always will be.

 

Now that's me, 30 something. What about now, kids 5 years old and so. Do they go to races? I know even in my fairly comfortable economic situation, I would be hard pressed justifying taking my family to Silverstone every year. And it's not on television anymore. I saw an article recently talking about the death of cricket in England and even Australia. Basically cricket is no longer accessible to the masses (i.e. it's only on pay tv). Once something stops being accessible to everyone it stops being a subject of conversation. 'Oh you don't have Sky?...okay'.

 

So as F1 fails to attract young passionate followers, interest will decline and that leads to a pretty toxic death spiral for the sport. Lack of interest leads to more gimmicks, and more desperate short-term cash moves. Which leads to less young followers and so on.

 

So with DRS, eco-engines and all this nonsense is 'bad' for the 'sport' maybe, the larger issues are what will eventually kill it.

 

It's a real shame, but F1 has been run like a hedgefund for the last 15 years and it's generated enormous wealth for those in charge. But, it has been effectively mortgaging its future and I just don't see how F1 can pay the debt it's already run up, and it shows no sign of doing anything to avoid any future debt (literal and figurative).

 

F1 is truly stuffed, sad as it is for me to say, and I really don't believe it can be saved.

 

What will be interesting is if something can take its place.



#55 Risil

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 10:27

I wrote about this a lot a few years ago, the future of F1 is not bright.

 

 

Eco-engines aren't a gimmick, they're a genuine part of where motor racing's big stakeholders want to take the sport. Audi, Porsche and Toyota aren't at Le Mans for gimmicks. Nissan probably won't be either. It's more like an experiment, which may fail.

 

Otherwise, agree one hundred percent.


Edited by Risil, 26 June 2014 - 10:28.


#56 4MEN

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 12:05

Eco-engines aren't a gimmick, they're a genuine part of where motor racing's big stakeholders want to take the sport. Audi, Porsche and Toyota aren't at Le Mans for gimmicks. Nissan probably won't be either. It's more like an experiment, which may fail.

 

Otherwise, agree one hundred percent.

 

An engine that costs more than $6 million can't ever be labelled as eco. 

 

http://joesaward.wor...-of-f1-engines/

 

I once needed a new worksurface for the kitchen. I heard that, instead of a big piece of granite, there was this new eco product (http://www.ecobycosentino.es/) made of recycled materials. Sounds good. It's like the right thing to buy. Well, it just costs double of what the big piece costs. That's not eco. Maybe they spend double the energy required to do it. Maybe they are eco-greedy. Maybe eco is a good marketing tool. The real eco thing is to get a second hand piece and reuse it.

 

I'm just going off topic to make a point. Greedy people governing F1 think the audiences are dumb. The sooner F1 gets rid of them the better. 



#57 Fastcake

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 12:15

An engine that costs more than $6 million can't ever be labelled as eco.

http://joesaward.wor...-of-f1-engines/

I once needed a new worksurface for the kitchen. I heard that, instead of a big piece of granite, there was thisnew eco product (http://www.ecobycosentino.es/) made of recycled materials. Sounds good. It's like the right thing to buy. Well, it just costs double of what the big piece costs. That's not eco. Maybe they spend double the energy required to do it. Maybe they are eco-greedy. Maybe eco is a good marketing tool. The real eco thing is to get a second hand piece and reuse it.

I'm just going off topic to make a point. Greedy people governing F1 think the audiences are dumb. The sooner F1 gets rid of them the better.


What has the cost got to do with being 'eco'? You would in general expect it to cost more, as it's easier to create a cheap product when you don't worry about the environment.

#58 Risil

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 12:16

An engine that costs more than $6 million can't ever be labelled as eco.

 

Believe it or not, it's an open question whether a free, consumerist economy can be combined with meaningful environmental sustainability. "Green" initiatives in motorsport are part of answering that question.


Edited by Risil, 26 June 2014 - 12:17.


#59 Fourjays

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 12:30

Put the same Generic Rent a Drivers in the cars from 2004 - you have entertainment. 

 

This actually goes on... Unfortunately I can't remember the name of it, but there is/was a series that had a variety of former-F1 cars from the early 2000s and 1990s being raced. It was hardly a roaring success of a series as far as I am aware.

 

Not sure what the fuss is about the 2004 cars though. Unless you are concerned with lap time alone, the early 2000s are hardly F1's "best" era. Power would be the 70s and 80s, racing is probably the 80s or 90s or late 00s, driver ability is probably the 60s to 80s and technology is what we've got now.

 

I think F1's main problem is the wrong people are "running" it. Between Bernie and the teams, there are too many vested interests involved. Nobody within the F1 circle is interested in doing what is good for the sport, just in gathering money or getting some sort of advantage. For all his faults, I think that perhaps Max Mosley had the right idea - rule the sport with an iron fist and stuff what the teams want.



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#60 4MEN

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 12:39

What has the cost got to do with being 'eco'? You would in general expect it to cost more, as it's easier to create a cheap product when you don't worry about the environment.

Sustainability. An expensive solution to a problem is not a sustainable one.



#61 Vepe1995

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 14:11

This actually goes on... Unfortunately I can't remember the name of it, but there is/was a series that had a variety of former-F1 cars from the early 2000s and 1990s being raced. It was hardly a roaring success of a series as far as I am aware.

 

Not sure what the fuss is about the 2004 cars though. Unless you are concerned with lap time alone, the early 2000s are hardly F1's "best" era. Power would be the 70s and 80s, racing is probably the 80s or 90s or late 00s, driver ability is probably the 60s to 80s and technology is what we've got now.

 

I think F1's main problem is the wrong people are "running" it. Between Bernie and the teams, there are too many vested interests involved. Nobody within the F1 circle is interested in doing what is good for the sport, just in gathering money or getting some sort of advantage. For all his faults, I think that perhaps Max Mosley had the right idea - rule the sport with an iron fist and stuff what the teams want.

 

EuroBOSS, which later became BOSS GP... Still in operation, next race at F3 Masters in Zandvoort.



#62 4MEN

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 16:42

8 x 3 > 11 x 2 ?

 

http://www.omnicorse...ero-di-team-a-8

 

translation

http://www.google.co...ero-di-team-a-8



#63 AlexS

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 17:34

 

What has the cost got to do with being 'eco'?

The cost of a product is in part of the energy spend on it. 

 

When i talk about energy is not only how much energy the engine block or the cylinder took to be build. But how many people are working on it, how many tools need to be build to support it, how many computers, how big and how many machines need to exist for such a more complex thing to exist. 

 

In it's current form and in the present the current engines are much less eco than the last ones. They need many more people, are way more complex, need much more different materials and capabilities.

 

But in the end the fact is that we don't know how much a thing is Eco(i only use the word to mean sustainable, every other meaning is a fraud) or not, since the sustainability of something is usually unknown. Only the future can tell us if it is or not.

 

A technology that spends a lot of energy might help discover some technology that contributes to spend less. Oil prospection went from wasting thousands of oil barrels to much less due to profit motive. Some of that bigs improvement went to other fields. 

Without oil we will not even talk about eco because we will be desperate for energy and feed our children.


Edited by AlexS, 01 July 2014 - 17:35.


#64 chipmcdonald

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 06:03

IT'S NOT ABOUT BEING GREEN.

 

It's about maintaining the status quo of an expensive marque, and not getting whipped by an out of the blue rival for half the cost. 

 

If it was "green" the electric side would be wide open, Drayson racing would be involved, and they would allow turbines.  "Green" is a lie when FRAKKING (fracking?) OIL COMPANIES ARE INVOLVED.

 

 

Car racing.  I want to see CAR racing.  Nice, loud, impressive, beautiful cars, racing.

 

/ I hate the 21st century