48 replies to this topic

[MinT]

I notice that F1 is pretty conspicuous by its absence at this years upcoming festival - only McLaren (JB and Stoffel) and RB by the looks - although Kimi is there "with Shell" also.

 

Wonder whats changed to make them stay away this year ?

[A310V6]

Sebastien Loeb and his monster?

[BRG]

Maybe the F1 teasm have got their hands full with their new cars and can't spare any effort for Goodwood?

[Exb]

As far as I know De la Rosa is supposed to be driving a Ferrari and Hamilton his Mercedes as well.

[andysaint]

For me having been to FOS in the earlier and later days, I prefer it without the modern F1 teams. It's got too big, too busy, it's lost the relaxed atmosphere, the race meeting is going the same way with the big name drivers. I enjoy more now the Silverstone classic.

[Sheepmachine]

Live coverage of the goodwood festival of speed here: http://www.autosport...-of-speed-live/

[chunder27]

I haven't  been for a long time, about 6 or 7 years, and even then it was heaving, far too many people there just wanting to be seen. And for a geek like me, annoyingly pasing on facts to passers by that were garbage!  So tempting!!

 

Also, as with a lot of historic events I went with my Dad and he could remember seeing some of these cars racing, and we both got fed up of watching some of the greatest cars in the world trickling past at walking pace wth some hack or senile old bloke at the wheel!  I know the cars are valuable and the track is difficult, but when you have seen Surtees oppo ing it up the hill and Rod Millen giving it the berries, Graeme Wight showing them all up, seeing a 917 ambling past, misfiring just isn't worth the money I am afraid. I will add tht the rally stage is superb, far more like it.

 

I do like the event, but it is a long way away from me, and really very expensive for what it is.

 

I am happy to remmeber the older days when it wasn't so busy, you got little gems of cars, you could wander about without having to fight through massive crowds and it wasn't the second most expensive event you went to all year as it is now.

 

But you cannot argue with March, he has made it into what it is with contacts, effort and it is probaly the second biggest race event in Britain behind the GP, certianly in terms of crowds and entrance fee.

[BRG]

I went yesterday (freebie ticket) and it was an interesting day.  It has become the UK's Motor Show instead of the one that died at the NEC.  Plus of course a really fascinating collection of cars and bikes form all eras.  The modern F1 boys are tucked away on their own a bit, and the cars look a little odd, especially F1's silly liitle 13 inch wheels and massive high aspect ratio tyres when so many other cars are sitting on 19 and 20 inch wheels and 40 or 35% tyres.  Not the pinnacle of the sport there, I fear.  

 

Best thing was when they fired up the 1939 Auto Union Type D V16.  

Edited by BRG, 27 June 2014 - 11:05.

[MrMan]

I went yesterday (freebie ticket) and it was an interesting day.  It has become the UK's Motor Show instead of the one that died at the NEC.  Plus of course a really fascinating collection of cars and bikes form all eras.  The modern F1 boys are tucked away on their own a bit, and the cars look a little odd, especially F1's silly liitle 13 inch wheels and massive high aspect ratio tyres when so many other cars are sitting on 19 and 20 inch wheels and 40 or 35% tyres.  Not the pinnacle of the sport there, I fear.  

 

Best thing was when they fired up the 1939 Auto Union Type D V16.  

 

I was there yesterday too, first time I had been and spent a lot of time around the F1 area. Having never heard a F1 car in the flesh before, when they fired up the Merc's V8 I had goosepimples, I think I get the thing about the old noise now.

 

One thing that bugged me was there was a display of the Renault powered cars this year and they were supposed to be 2014 cars, but had the wrong noses on... The only 2014 front wing I saw was the Williams, and that is a very beautiful car.

 

It was great to see a lot of older F1 cars too.

 

Really, really enjoyed it.

[f1fan1998]

I haven't  been for a long time, about 6 or 7 years, and even then it was heaving, far too many people there just wanting to be seen. And for a geek like me, annoyingly pasing on facts to passers by that were garbage!  So tempting!!

 

Also, as with a lot of historic events I went with my Dad and he could remember seeing some of these cars racing, and we both got fed up of watching some of the greatest cars in the world trickling past at walking pace wth some hack or senile old bloke at the wheel!  I know the cars are valuable and the track is difficult, but when you have seen Surtees oppo ing it up the hill and Rod Millen giving it the berries, Graeme Wight showing them all up, seeing a 917 ambling past, misfiring just isn't worth the money I am afraid. I will add tht the rally stage is superb, far more like it.

 

I do like the event, but it is a long way away from me, and really very expensive for what it is.

 

I am happy to remmeber the older days when it wasn't so busy, you got little gems of cars, you could wander about without having to fight through massive crowds and it wasn't the second most expensive event you went to all year as it is now.

 

But you cannot argue with March, he has made it into what it is with contacts, effort and it is probaly the second biggest race event in Britain behind the GP, certianly in terms of crowds and entrance fee.

 

Have you seen Race Week in London next Thursday. Seems a bit more like what you once saw Goodwood as. Some nice cars, relaxed atmosphere with a bit of F1 noise..

[Ross Stonefeld]

 The modern F1 boys are tucked away on their own a bit, and the cars look a little odd, especially F1's silly liitle 13 inch wheels and massive high aspect ratio tyres when so many other cars are sitting on 19 and 20 inch wheels and 40 or 35% tyres.  Not the pinnacle of the sport there, I fear.  

 

 

That's just the nature of open wheelers/single seaters. The only low-profile car I can think of is Formula E.

[chunder27]

Race Week in London?

 

No idea?  Is it the Crystal Palace thing?

[BRG]

That's just the nature of open wheelers/single seaters. The only low-profile car I can think of is Formula E.

Indy cars surely don't run 13 inch wheels?  And all the sports prototypes have used low profiles and bigger wheels for ages.  Why not single seaters?  The funniest thing was that around the corner were three 1960s NASCARs and even they had better wheel/rubber ratios.  But not to (re)start that debate, it just stuck out like a sore thumb to me that F1 was still way back in the last century on this respect.

Edited by BRG, 27 June 2014 - 17:36.

[Seanspeed]

I was there yesterday too, first time I had been and spent a lot of time around the F1 area. Having never heard a F1 car in the flesh before, when they fired up the Merc's V8 I had goosepimples, I think I get the thing about the old noise now.
 
One thing that bugged me was there was a display of the Renault powered cars this year and they were supposed to be 2014 cars, but had the wrong noses on... The only 2014 front wing I saw was the Williams, and that is a very beautiful car.
 
It was great to see a lot of older F1 cars too.
 
Really, really enjoyed it.

Everytime I've been, they usually haven't had current season F1 cars.

I'll be going Sunday. There may not be any real racing, but its definitely the greatest gathering of cars in the world! Cant wait.

Edited by Seanspeed, 27 June 2014 - 17:49.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Indy cars surely don't run 13 inch wheels?  And all the sports prototypes have used low profiles and bigger wheels for ages.  Why not single seaters?  The funniest thing was that around the corner were three 1960s NASCARs and even they had better wheel/rubber ratios.  But not to (re)start that debate, it just stuck out like a sore thumb to me that F1 was still way back in the last century on this respect.

 

I don't know what rims other series are, but the profile issue seems to be an open wheel vs not thing. Maybe it's because the cars with low profile tires are a lot heavier? I don't know why formula cars would like having all that deformation and springing without a damper on it.

[HaydenFan]

I wonder if the FIA opened up tire/wheel rules, would we see carbon fiber wheels (like seen with Koenigsegg cars). 

 

On the tire front: 

 

http://backfires.car...w-profile-tires

 

 

 

F1 cars produce a massive amount of loading on the tires during cornering. Even with several rule changes governing aerodynamics, the teams are still developing cars that corner faster each successive year. If you watch a slow-motion replay of a Formula 1 car mid-corner, or a still picture, you will see the loading drastically changing the shape of the tires. A low profile tire would have very little flexibility to deform and absorb this loading due to a lack of a sufficient sidewall. Also, considering the small size of the tires compared to your average road car, this allowance for deformation courtesy of the sidewall is critical. Cornering speeds would decrease substantially using low-profile tires (although I suppose that might interest the FIA if it wants to change its approach to reducing corning speeds: reduce aerodynamics restrictions and just impose low-profile tires instead).

Also, keep in mind that even if the cornering effects were the same between current tires and low-profile units, teams would not reduce the volume of tire and increase the volume of wheel. Even with those light-weight F1 wheels, air is still lighter. 

Edited by HaydenFan, 27 June 2014 - 18:41.

[BRG]

"Cornering speeds would decrease substantially using low-profile tires"

 

Makes you wonder why so many other series use them, not to mention every production car in the world.  Obviously we all want to go round corners slower.   

[HaydenFan]

"Cornering speeds would decrease substantially using low-profile tires"

 

Makes you wonder why so many other series use them, not to mention every production car in the world.  Obviously we all want to go round corners slower.   

 

Looks. A 19 inch wheel on a Ferrari looks a lot better and fits the design of the modern car. And in 99.9% of the driving supercars go through, a low profile tire's loss in cornering ability is outweighed by it's looks. And that has trickled down to even the front wheel drive compacts. 

 

Another example is drag racing. Watch a Top Fuel car take off. It nearly rips the tire apart before it breaks traction. A low profile tire would fail to be able to endure the forces put upon it. 

[Ross Stonefeld]

I'd assume you'd want as little deformation as possible in the tire, and more in the suspension which you can control.

[HaydenFan]

I'd assume you'd want as little deformation as possible in the tire, and more in the suspension which you can control.

 

Yes. Think it's a matter of change. From what I can tell, the 13 inch rule has been in place for decades. Engineers have developed cars around that their entire careers. Would bet the suspension system would need major development (one argument I read said costs from said development are a reason many oppose the move to a lower profile). 

[BRG]

Looks. A 19 inch wheel on a Ferrari looks a lot better and fits the design of the modern car. And in 99.9% of the driving supercars go through, a low profile tire's loss in cornering ability is outweighed by it's looks. And that has trickled down to even the front wheel drive compacts. 

 

Another example is drag racing. Watch a Top Fuel car take off. It nearly rips the tire apart before it breaks traction. A low profile tire would fail to be able to endure the forces put upon it. 

I guess all those cars at Le Mans were just being run by suckers taken in by appearances.  Audi, Porsche, Toyota, Ferrari, Aston and so on - mugs, all of them.

 

Do drag racers go round a lot of corners?

Edited by BRG, 27 June 2014 - 19:28.

[Wes350]

Looks. A 19 inch wheel on a Ferrari looks a lot better and fits the design of the modern car. And in 99.9% of the driving supercars go through, a low profile tire's loss in cornering ability is outweighed by it's looks. And that has trickled down to even the front wheel drive compacts. 

 

 

I can't buy into the logic, every other road racing series in the world has gone to LP tires. So has every sports car and super car maker. There must be performance gains that the Lp tire brings.

 

 

 

Even F1 is talking about going to 18" rims in a few years. And there was no discussion whatsoever about it being a performance reducing move.

[Option1]

I'd assume you'd want as little deformation as possible in the tire, and more in the suspension which you can control.

I think Ross nailed it.

 

Yes. Think it's a matter of change. From what I can tell, the 13 inch rule has been in place for decades. Engineers have developed cars around that their entire careers. Would bet the suspension system would need major development (one argument I read said costs from said development are a reason many oppose the move to a lower profile). 

And HaydenFan has agreed. 

 

Like others, I think HaydenFan's earlier post basically saying low profile tyres wouldn't work is in error.  However, it does need to be acknowledged that changing to low profile would entail a very significant change to the suspension, and probably the rules surrounding that (if there are any), and probably to the chassis and the rules surrounding that as well.

 

Neil

[HaydenFan]

Only benefit I have been able to think of (or find on the interweb) has been the ability to fit larger brake discs and some increased road feel. While I did say that I believe the lack of F1 moving in this direction is it's effects on the suspension. When it comes to minor changes, F1 has really been in stagnation (most due to overwhelming regulations). 

 

F1, even from just a hybrid aspect, should look at a bigger wheel. I assume bigger brakes would mean a more efficient collection of energy (+ more energy in total) recovered for the power unit? Would help push that "green" movement. 

 

And on the suspension redesign front, how much has an F1 car truly changed in terms of the chassis/suspension in the last few decades (especially since the introduction of carbon fiber tubs, and since the regs bringing the 13 inch high profile wheel came into effect)? The sportscar programs have built cars from the ground up using modern designs. F1 cars are pretty old in terms of basic design principles. Not defending the stagnation, but just saying there are logical reasons F1 teams have not changed (beyond the fact that this isn't at the forefront of any F1 agendas beyond Michelin). 

[ensign14]

The weather forecast for today was that one should start building an Ark, just in case, so naturally I got sunburnt.  Ouchie.

[Ross Stonefeld]

So F1 teams, which redesign the suspension every year anyways, don't want lower profile tires/rims because they'd have to redesign the suspension. Which they already do.

 

I wonder if there's more to it rather than the en vogue "F1 is ****/they don't know what they're doing" with the more recent "Le Mans uber alles!" added for seasoning.

[muramasa]

I saw pics of McLaren MP4/4 with original Marlboro livery driven by Izawa. Could the car be the one that belongs to Honda, which they bothered to bring from Japan? Cos those old mclaren cars kept in Woking are all "un-Marlboro-ed" (maybe un-West-ed as well). Or can they easily restore original livery when needed? On the other hand all the classic Honda powered F1 cars kept by Honda are maintained in its original livery completely.

[10e10]

I saw pics of McLaren MP4/4 with original Marlboro livery driven by Izawa. Could the car be the one that belongs to Honda, which they bothered to bring from Japan? Cos those old mclaren cars kept in Woking are all "un-Marlboro-ed" (maybe un-West-ed as well). Or can they easily restore original livery when needed? On the other hand all the classic Honda powered F1 cars kept by Honda are maintained in its original livery completely.

It's the one kept by Honda.

[krapmeister]

Bloody hell - did anyone get a time on Buemi's run in the RB7 just now? That looked VERY quick - he was giving it a proper go...

Stupid testing regs - they're driving old chassis with V8's. I don't know why they just don't time them tbh...

Edited by krapmeister, 28 June 2014 - 11:26.

[ApexMouse]

Chris hoy just destroyed a nismo GTR on his time run. He's ok though. 

[Vitesse2]

Bloody hell - did anyone get a time on Buemi's run in the RB7 just now? That looked VERY quick - he was giving it a proper go...

Stupid testing regs - they're driving old chassis with V8's. I don't know why they just don't time them tbh...

In earlier years there were serious concerns about safety when the F1 boys were really on the limit. Especially after John Dawson-Damer's fatal crash in 2000. It's a toss-up between safety and visibility for spectators: imagine what could happen if a really fast single-seater did what Chris Hoy just did with that Mazda. Or bounced off the flint wall. Or hit an errant pheasant. I'm sure Heidfeld's time is beatable, but you'd need to significantly up the safety measures - which would just spoil it for the spectators. I think there's a gentlemen's agreement among the F1 teams that they're not going to go for the record again and leave it to the tintops, supercars and GTs.

[krapmeister]

Oh... well thankfully no one has explained that to Sebastien Buemi then.

[OSX]

For those not in the know... Raikkonen will be entertaining the Goodwood crowd on Sunday by driving his WDC winning Ferrari F2007.

 

 

 

[Vitesse2]

Oh... well thankfully no one has explained that to Sebastien Buemi then.

Buemi was fast - I'd guess about 44 or 45 seconds - but he's been up the hill quite a number of times. Anthony Reid has probably done at least a hundred but that didn't stop him doing serious damage to that Aston by bouncing it off the flint wall.

 

Beating Heidfeld's record would require serious effort: I doubt Buemi was driving at more than about 90 per cent of what he could actually do.

[Melchiot]

Cant see the festival...

 

Did porsche bring their new gt3rs?

[muramasa]

many old cars in action

 

http://youtu.be/bW0jJ1nVxVc

Edited by muramasa, 29 June 2014 - 13:25.

[muramasa]

Surtees and Kimi!

 

[muramasa]

 

 

 

 

 

 

not environmental friendly

(caused red flag eventually, deserves it    )

[A310V6]

Buemi looked very fast, unfortunately no timing.

[Jovanotti]

Which cars are going to do a timed run? Are Kimi and Lewis doing one?

[muramasa]

mind the wall!

 

 

 

[Victor_RO]

Which cars are going to do a timed run? Are Kimi and Lewis doing one?

 

Since the 41.6 record, F1 cars are no longer timed up the hill, so F1 drivers generally just do a slow-ish run and pepper it with burnouts and donuts.

[muramasa]

ditto

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

finishto

You're welcome

[Brackets]

I'd assume you'd want as little deformation as possible in the tire, and more in the suspension which you can control.

Unless you’re Michelin and you want to run on the side of the tires as well (only to watch Ferrari getting it banned).

[Seanspeed]

I'm sunburnt as hell, but that was a great day yesterday.

[OSX]

 

[Richard T]

That F2007 is so beautiful it makes me sad 

[DS27]

I saw the coverage of Sat / Sun on the tv, but I couldn't be doing with the crowds. It would do my head in.

 

We went on Friday, and it was so much quieter, and I don't feel I missed anything much.

[jjcale]

I saw the coverage of Sat / Sun on the tv, but I couldn't be doing with the crowds. It would do my head in.

 

We went on Friday, and it was so much quieter, and I don't feel I missed anything much.

 

My non-F1 mate who I went with kept asking ...." I thought you said motorsport was dying" 

Edited by jjcale, 30 June 2014 - 19:27.